EV Charging in the UK

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:18:23 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/06/19 14:05, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 3:35:00 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 18/06/19 04:14, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:02:22 AM UTC-4, The Marquis Saint
Evremonde wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> posted
On 16/06/2019 17:41, Winfield Hill wrote:
John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...
I can charge on the street, if I can park within two car spots of
my driveway. Apartment dwellers in a crowded city have a problem.
Several are like that here at work, but they can charge up in our
garage.

Its the transition that will probably be most problematic where only
some on street parking spots have access to a charger, and lots of
those get blocked by IC engine cars.

The newly elected Liberal Democrat council in my London borough tried
to introduce a scheme under which the cost of residents' street
parking permits would quadruple to Ł400 for petrol cars, and quintuple
for diesels, but fall to zero for electric cars. The idea being (so
they said) to encourage people to dump their Dirty Diesels and switch
to electric vehicles.

The imbeciles on the council had to be reminded that the only residents
who needed street parking permits were those who had to park on the
street, and such people couldn't have electric vehicles because it
wouldn't be lawful to charge them at the kerbside.

Many other arguments were raised against the scheme, but that had to be
one of the killers.

How many there already have EVs? I expect the EV issue was not an issue
at all and it was killed because the increased tax was not very popular,
especially with the diesel owners. Was there a meeting where they
discussed this? How many EV owners showed up?

On this subject you are just as willfully blind as Larkin, but in a
different direction.

Which bit of his last paragraph is difficult for you to comprehend?

You have been shown photos illustrating the problem in another city. Many
parts of London (and many other cities) are the same.

You haven't even been to the UK, yet you claim to know more about living
here than those that do. That makes you look foolish.

Often those closest to a problem can be blind to the solution.

More often ignorance of a situation leads people to
be armchair quarterbacks proselytising too simplistic
"solution" that won't work.

Mechanical engineers hate people that think everything
can be made from string and bent metal. Or there's the
"its only software", etc etc etc.


My post above is simply referring to the math.

Actually only part of the arithmetic, and for the
easy part of the problem. Unfortunately the difficult
bits need to be addresses too.


EVs in the UK are around
200,000 out of 37 million registered. That's about 0.5%. No, I don't think
there was any real issue with the number of EVs charging on the curb. It is
very much more likely the other 99.5% didn't like the bigger tax.

How much more simple can it be?

But then maybe you are right. Maybe the issue is a bigoted hatred for EVs.
Did anyone at the meeting chant "Make the UK Great Again"?

What on earth are you blathering about?

You refuse to believe you might not know everything
relevant, just like people suffering from Dunning-Krueger
syndrome.

In order to avoid recognising your ignorance, you seem
to want to invent conspiracy theories.

Away from electronics, you and Larkin are the two sides
of the same coin.

I'm perfectly happy with individual enthusiasts buying EVs, but I'm
not happy with powerful people and groups using them as expensive
power-building crusades.

My next-door neighbor Steve has always wanted a Tesla, so he saved up
and bought a model 3. He hated it. "It does what it wants, not what I
want."

I don't see it around any more. Maybe he got rid of it.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:01:31 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

Rick C wrote:

Oh, I didn't realize you don't use a cell phone.

Actually, I do use a cell phone. I celebrated the moment when my brand
new Galaxy something was kind enough to die and switched back to Nokia
6020. Smaller, lighter, doesn't require frequent charging, has a normal
keypad with detectable keypress feedback, I am no longer by far the
fastest chain in the control loop and it sounds no worse than the
Samsung. Exactly what a phone should be.

Best regards, Piotr

My Casio Rock (flip phone) needs to be charged about every two weeks.

It's nothing but a plain old phone without a cord.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

Rick C wrote:

> Oh, I didn't realize you don't use a cell phone.

Actually, I do use a cell phone. I celebrated the moment when my brand
new Galaxy something was kind enough to die and switched back to Nokia
6020. Smaller, lighter, doesn't require frequent charging, has a normal
keypad with detectable keypress feedback, I am no longer by far the
fastest chain in the control loop and it sounds no worse than the
Samsung. Exactly what a phone should be.

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:18:27 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 18/06/19 14:05, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 3:35:00 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 18/06/19 04:14, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:02:22 AM UTC-4, The Marquis Saint
Evremonde wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> posted
On 16/06/2019 17:41, Winfield Hill wrote:
John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...
I can charge on the street, if I can park within two car spots of
my driveway. Apartment dwellers in a crowded city have a problem.
Several are like that here at work, but they can charge up in our
garage.

Its the transition that will probably be most problematic where only
some on street parking spots have access to a charger, and lots of
those get blocked by IC engine cars.

The newly elected Liberal Democrat council in my London borough tried
to introduce a scheme under which the cost of residents' street
parking permits would quadruple to ÂŁ400 for petrol cars, and quintuple
for diesels, but fall to zero for electric cars. The idea being (so
they said) to encourage people to dump their Dirty Diesels and switch
to electric vehicles.

The imbeciles on the council had to be reminded that the only residents
who needed street parking permits were those who had to park on the
street, and such people couldn't have electric vehicles because it
wouldn't be lawful to charge them at the kerbside.

Many other arguments were raised against the scheme, but that had to be
one of the killers.

How many there already have EVs? I expect the EV issue was not an issue
at all and it was killed because the increased tax was not very popular,
especially with the diesel owners. Was there a meeting where they
discussed this? How many EV owners showed up?

On this subject you are just as willfully blind as Larkin, but in a
different direction.

Which bit of his last paragraph is difficult for you to comprehend?

You have been shown photos illustrating the problem in another city. Many
parts of London (and many other cities) are the same.

You haven't even been to the UK, yet you claim to know more about living
here than those that do. That makes you look foolish.

Often those closest to a problem can be blind to the solution.

More often ignorance of a situation leads people to
be armchair quarterbacks proselytising too simplistic
"solution" that won't work.

Mechanical engineers hate people that think everything
can be made from string and bent metal. Or there's the
"its only software", etc etc etc.


My post above is simply referring to the math.

Actually only part of the arithmetic, and for the
easy part of the problem. Unfortunately the difficult
bits need to be addresses too.


EVs in the UK are around
200,000 out of 37 million registered. That's about 0.5%. No, I don't think
there was any real issue with the number of EVs charging on the curb. It is
very much more likely the other 99.5% didn't like the bigger tax.

How much more simple can it be?

But then maybe you are right. Maybe the issue is a bigoted hatred for EVs.
Did anyone at the meeting chant "Make the UK Great Again"?

What on earth are you blathering about?

You refuse to believe you might not know everything
relevant, just like people suffering from Dunning-Krueger
syndrome.

In order to avoid recognising your ignorance, you seem
to want to invent conspiracy theories.

Away from electronics, you and Larkin are the two sides
of the same coin.

You complain that my analysis of this event is flawed, but you provide no factually based analysis of your own.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

--

Rick C.

--+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Martin Brown]

On 18/06/2019 15:29, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:35:54 +0100, Martin Brown

I wonder how well they will work after being crushed?

Just install giant induction loops under every street.

Electric trams with overhead wires are making a comeback.
Manchester has an extensive network of them now.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Martin Brown]

On 18/06/2019 14:06, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 4:47:52 AM UTC-4, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
Rick C wrote:

Let me repeat myself yet again. Charge at home, always have a full battery in the morning and never have to drive to a busy, smelly, nasty gas station again.

Once every 3 weeks for 5 minutes? You may have a point in general, but
this kind of argument doesn't help. For me the need to perform any form
of maintenance every single day (charging is a form thereof) would be a
sure deal breaker.

Best regards, Piotr

Oh, I didn't realize you don't use a cell phone.

Only some fussy smart cell phones require recharging every 12 hours.

My Moto G lasts around 3 days between charges. It would last even longer
- almost a week if I lived somewhere with a decent mobile signal.

It was deliberately chosen to replace my faithful old Nokia which would
run for two or three weeks no problem until I dropped it in a
bucket.(actually the battery was failing anyway but that was the coup de
grace)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:29:13 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

On 18/06/2019 14:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 4:47:52 AM UTC-4, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
Rick C wrote:

Let me repeat myself yet again. Charge at home, always have a full battery in the morning and never have to drive to a busy, smelly, nasty gas station again.

Once every 3 weeks for 5 minutes? You may have a point in general, but
this kind of argument doesn't help. For me the need to perform any form
of maintenance every single day (charging is a form thereof) would be a
sure deal breaker.

Best regards, Piotr

Oh, I didn't realize you don't use a cell phone.

Only some fussy smart cell phones require recharging every 12 hours.

My Moto G lasts around 3 days between charges. It would last even longer
- almost a week if I lived somewhere with a decent mobile signal.

Sounds like charging my car! That's the point. Someone referred to the horrible inconvenience of plugging in the car every night. The reality is in most use cases a car needs to be charged a lot like a cell phone. Plug it in at home if you want, or plug in at work if that's an option. In Frederick they have level 2 charging at the train station so people can charge while they are at work and the car isn't!

This is early days still. In not too many years charging will be available everywhere you go, literally.

It was deliberately chosen to replace my faithful old Nokia which would
run for two or three weeks no problem until I dropped it in a
bucket.(actually the battery was failing anyway but that was the coup de
grace)

I've still got a flip phone to hold onto my old number. It is virtually unused save the telemarketer calls and the few calls from friends who don't have the new number (actually the really old business number I moved from a landline to the mobile).

Keeping the flip phone charged is more of a bother since I don't plug it in every night. It can go better part of a week and it often runs out in my pocket. The smart phone can go a couple of days but it gets plugged in more often because I think about it.

As to the car, it is much more of a bother to move things to and from the car each time I get home than it is to plug in the charger. Tesla has made it very simple and easy to perform charging. Combine that with the nearly complete lack of maintenance and it is a very trouble free car. They don't even have an annual service check like the hugely mechanically complex ICE vehicles.

It truly is amazing just how much the ICE has been honed and polished and what has been achieved with such an inherently complex and unreliable technology. Imagine how much improvement will be made with EVs over the next 20 years. By then, charging will be much faster (there are improvements to that coming in the next 5 years), longer range, lower cost. With EVs being nearly ubiquitous people will become complacent with the technology and expect TVs in every seat and a minibar. Actually, with fully self driving cars common, the minibar may actually happen. "I can drink, I'm not driving!"

--

Rick C.

-+--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Andy Burns]

John Larkin wrote:

And we have cable cars!
Great fun

They're even mad enough to let the tourists "drive" them ...

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:31:26 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/06/2019 15:29, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:35:54 +0100, Martin Brown

I wonder how well they will work after being crushed?

Just install giant induction loops under every street.

Electric trams with overhead wires are making a comeback.
Manchester has an extensive network of them now.

We have a lot of electric public transportation here. It's very
reliable and works well underground.

And we have cable cars! One giant electric motor powers the whole
system. Cars going downhill donate their power to cars going uphill.

A cable car does have one lead-acid battery to run the lights.

https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/muni/cable-cars

Great fun, especially hanging on outside at night. The Hyde Street
line is best.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 1:26:32 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 18/06/19 14:49, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:18:27 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 18/06/19 14:05, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 3:35:00 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 18/06/19 04:14, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:02:22 AM UTC-4, The Marquis Saint
Evremonde wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> posted
On 16/06/2019 17:41, Winfield Hill wrote:
John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...
I can charge on the street, if I can park within two car spots of
my driveway. Apartment dwellers in a crowded city have a problem.
Several are like that here at work, but they can charge up in our
garage.

Its the transition that will probably be most problematic where only
some on street parking spots have access to a charger, and lots of
those get blocked by IC engine cars.

The newly elected Liberal Democrat council in my London borough tried
to introduce a scheme under which the cost of residents' street
parking permits would quadruple to ÂŁ400 for petrol cars, and quintuple
for diesels, but fall to zero for electric cars. The idea being (so
they said) to encourage people to dump their Dirty Diesels and switch
to electric vehicles.

The imbeciles on the council had to be reminded that the only residents
who needed street parking permits were those who had to park on the
street, and such people couldn't have electric vehicles because it
wouldn't be lawful to charge them at the kerbside.

Many other arguments were raised against the scheme, but that had to be
one of the killers.

How many there already have EVs? I expect the EV issue was not an issue
at all and it was killed because the increased tax was not very popular,
especially with the diesel owners. Was there a meeting where they
discussed this? How many EV owners showed up?

On this subject you are just as willfully blind as Larkin, but in a
different direction.

Which bit of his last paragraph is difficult for you to comprehend?

You have been shown photos illustrating the problem in another city. Many
parts of London (and many other cities) are the same.

You haven't even been to the UK, yet you claim to know more about living
here than those that do. That makes you look foolish.

Often those closest to a problem can be blind to the solution.

More often ignorance of a situation leads people to
be armchair quarterbacks proselytising too simplistic
"solution" that won't work.

Mechanical engineers hate people that think everything
can be made from string and bent metal. Or there's the
"its only software", etc etc etc.


My post above is simply referring to the math.

Actually only part of the arithmetic, and for the
easy part of the problem. Unfortunately the difficult
bits need to be addresses too.


EVs in the UK are around
200,000 out of 37 million registered. That's about 0.5%. No, I don't think
there was any real issue with the number of EVs charging on the curb. It is
very much more likely the other 99.5% didn't like the bigger tax.

How much more simple can it be?

But then maybe you are right. Maybe the issue is a bigoted hatred for EVs.
Did anyone at the meeting chant "Make the UK Great Again"?

What on earth are you blathering about?

You refuse to believe you might not know everything
relevant, just like people suffering from Dunning-Krueger
syndrome.

In order to avoid recognising your ignorance, you seem
to want to invent conspiracy theories.

Away from electronics, you and Larkin are the two sides
of the same coin.

You complain that my analysis of this event is flawed, but you provide no factually based analysis of your own.

I have provided examples of practical problems
in the UK.

You have refused to acknowledge them; for all I know
you never even looked at the "pretty pictures".

There's none so blind as them's won't see.

Yes, I looked at the pictures and I see what you are talking about. The RF guys talked about this, but it is hard to grasp without seeing a picture. The US pretty much doesn't have this. Streets are 99% wide enough for parking and traffic.

That picture doesn't indicate that facilities can't be added to allow charging. The fact that with less than 0.5% of your cars being electric (and that figure includes hybrids which I expect most are) there are people working to solve these problems shows that others are not as adamant there are no solutions.

I'd be willing to bet when cars first appears in London there were many who complained about the smoke and noise and how they frightened the horses. Yet progress continued and I don't think I saw one horse in any of your photos.

Charging is not an intractable problem. In the UK it is difficult in some areas but will improve.

--

Rick C.

-+--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 18/06/19 14:49, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:18:27 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 18/06/19 14:05, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 3:35:00 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 18/06/19 04:14, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:02:22 AM UTC-4, The Marquis Saint
Evremonde wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> posted
On 16/06/2019 17:41, Winfield Hill wrote:
John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...
I can charge on the street, if I can park within two car spots of
my driveway. Apartment dwellers in a crowded city have a problem.
Several are like that here at work, but they can charge up in our
garage.

Its the transition that will probably be most problematic where only
some on street parking spots have access to a charger, and lots of
those get blocked by IC engine cars.

The newly elected Liberal Democrat council in my London borough tried
to introduce a scheme under which the cost of residents' street
parking permits would quadruple to ÂŁ400 for petrol cars, and quintuple
for diesels, but fall to zero for electric cars. The idea being (so
they said) to encourage people to dump their Dirty Diesels and switch
to electric vehicles.

The imbeciles on the council had to be reminded that the only residents
who needed street parking permits were those who had to park on the
street, and such people couldn't have electric vehicles because it
wouldn't be lawful to charge them at the kerbside.

Many other arguments were raised against the scheme, but that had to be
one of the killers.

How many there already have EVs? I expect the EV issue was not an issue
at all and it was killed because the increased tax was not very popular,
especially with the diesel owners. Was there a meeting where they
discussed this? How many EV owners showed up?

On this subject you are just as willfully blind as Larkin, but in a
different direction.

Which bit of his last paragraph is difficult for you to comprehend?

You have been shown photos illustrating the problem in another city. Many
parts of London (and many other cities) are the same.

You haven't even been to the UK, yet you claim to know more about living
here than those that do. That makes you look foolish.

Often those closest to a problem can be blind to the solution.

More often ignorance of a situation leads people to
be armchair quarterbacks proselytising too simplistic
"solution" that won't work.

Mechanical engineers hate people that think everything
can be made from string and bent metal. Or there's the
"its only software", etc etc etc.


My post above is simply referring to the math.

Actually only part of the arithmetic, and for the
easy part of the problem. Unfortunately the difficult
bits need to be addresses too.


EVs in the UK are around
200,000 out of 37 million registered. That's about 0.5%. No, I don't think
there was any real issue with the number of EVs charging on the curb. It is
very much more likely the other 99.5% didn't like the bigger tax.

How much more simple can it be?

But then maybe you are right. Maybe the issue is a bigoted hatred for EVs.
Did anyone at the meeting chant "Make the UK Great Again"?

What on earth are you blathering about?

You refuse to believe you might not know everything
relevant, just like people suffering from Dunning-Krueger
syndrome.

In order to avoid recognising your ignorance, you seem
to want to invent conspiracy theories.

Away from electronics, you and Larkin are the two sides
of the same coin.

You complain that my analysis of this event is flawed, but you provide no factually based analysis of your own.

I have provided examples of practical problems
in the UK.

You have refused to acknowledge them; for all I know
you never even looked at the "pretty pictures".

There's none so blind as them's won't see.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 19/06/19 03:46, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

A sensible question, just as it is with any cloud service.

But the same is true of just about any car. The only solution
is diversity of supplier. That's beginning to happen with EVs.

Unfortunately EVs like Tesla have the EV characteristic
conmingled with the "driverless" characteristic - principally
as a way of distracting from the less good characteristics.

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

John Larkin wrote:

If you only drive a few miles a day in a regular car, you won't use
much gasoline so you won't Destroy The Planet.

If you do Care About The Planet, this is the way to go:

https://izismile.com/2015/12/07/ukraine_drivers_are_going_back_to_basics_and_using_wood_to_power_their_cars_7_pics.html

A truly zero CO2 footprint solution, the wood would have rotten anyway.
More Teslas:

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

https://sputniknews.com/science/201802171061758530-belarusian-wood-powered-car/

It seems that our eastern neighbours have gone very creative recently.


Best regards, Piotr

 

[aw@noname.com]

On Monday, 17 June 2019 06:56:13 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
....

Temperature is controlled by adjusting the flow rate through the heater,
but for a 10kW shower the element is usually tapped so you can have
lower power for hot days when the input temperature is high.

Why not use a triac?
....

Phase control would cause unacceptable input current waveform distortion.

Pulse-skipping would avoid that but could cause flickering lights and other undesirable effects when switching 7kW.

Andy

 

On Tuesday, 18 June 2019 19:47:05 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
....

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?
....

Why would a Tesla owner need a replacement battery?

They are not something that is high on the list for repair. There have been a few replaced although in many of those it was not the cells that caused trouble, it was the surrounding circuitry that is in the battery pack. These items are mainly off the shelf electronic components and so probably repairable even without Tesla's assistance if needed.

kw

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 3:31:28 PM UTC-4, a...@noname.com wrote:

On Tuesday, 18 June 2019 19:47:05 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?
...

Why would a Tesla owner need a replacement battery?

Not everyone truly understands the concept of rechargeability. John often needs things explained to him using small words.


> They are not something that is high on the list for repair. There have been a few replaced although in many of those it was not the cells that caused trouble, it was the surrounding circuitry that is in the battery pack. These items are mainly off the shelf electronic components and so probably repairable even without Tesla's assistance if needed.

The reality is that not only is an EV a way of driving without being totally dependent on carbon emitting fuels, it also costs less to fuel and is much lower in maintenance as well as having a much longer lifespan. So it's a win, win, win,... uh...


win!

I guess Larkin is the guy in the Volvo commercial from many years ago who asks, "If they weren't so good, why would I buy so many?"

Yes, that's right. The guy in the commercial was another idiot.

--

Rick C.

-+-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:23:30 +0100, Clive Arthur
<cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/06/2019 14:56, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:35:29 +0100, Clive Arthur
cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 16/06/2019 16:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:08:52 +1000, Chris Jones

snipped

I was surprised how common it is in the UK to have instant electric
water heaters for showers, often 10kW or more. Here is a typical example:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-sprint-multi-fit-white-10-8kw-electric-shower/257fr


Two year guarantee? Labor probably not included. Interesting that it
has temperature control *and* power control. "Sure, I feel like a cold
shower today because the grid is stressed."

Temperature is controlled by adjusting the flow rate through the heater,
but for a 10kW shower the element is usually tapped so you can have
lower power for hot days when the input temperature is high.

Why not use a triac?

I'm not a shower designer, but the method used works well and is
reliable, I guess it's cheaper too. And you'd still need the flow
control knob unless you restrict the flow to something which 10kW at the
coldest input could heat adequately.

Cheers

That sounds like a lot of complexity to take a shower. We have a
gas-fired 80 gallon hot water tank and two knobs in the shower, hot
and cold.

I like long hot showers, because I have ideas in the shower.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 05:33:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (15 Jun 2019 16:42:45 -0700) it happened Winfield Hill
winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote in <qe3vpl02a43@drn.newsguy.com>:

tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote...

On Saturday, 15 June 2019, Rick C wrote:

But I'm being told there are two problems with that.
One is that distribution is sized for an average of
2 kW consumption per household in many older areas ...

So are these two problems being presented realistically?

Bogus. I can't believe houses don't have enough
current capacity (2kW/230V = 9A) to run 1.5kW
microwave ovens, dishwashers, washers, electric
dryers, lights, TVs, HVAC, and a few electric
water heaters. In my visits to England, they
even had heated towel racks in their bathrooms.
A household without those basic amenities isn't
going to be buying EV cars anyway.

My car charges in 4 hours overnight, taking only
1.4kW while doing so. I've driven 4k miles so
far, and still have 80% of my second tank of gas.

The infrastructure Rick is thinking about is for
level 2 fast charging, which might be useful for
a few long trips, but not for everyday commuting.

I just wonder if UK leaves EU if they will go back to 240 V ;-)
Or maybe even 380 just to make a difference.
US 110 is also a possibility, if trump says so.


In the end the whole climate hype is a hoax,
climate change is not human caused,
it is set by orbital parameters:
https://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm

And solar variation. Possibly galactic cosmic ray flux.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com