EV Charging in the UK

[none@noname.com]

On Wednesday, 19 June 2019 19:30:17 UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
....

Why would a Tesla owner need a replacement battery?

Yeah, they just replace their homes when the garbage cans fill up too.

They are not a normal replacement item - they will last the lifetime of the car

They are not something that is high on the list for repair. There have been a few replaced although in many of those it was not the cells that caused trouble, it was the surrounding circuitry that is in the battery pack. These items are mainly off the shelf electronic components and so probably repairable even without Tesla's assistance if needed.

More than a few. It's instructive that there are used Tesla batteries

There are used Audi gearboxes for sale - does that mean that I should expect to have to replace them?

> for sale (a cow-orker bought some for a project at work).

So presumably they hadn't failed.

I expect that most are from wrecked cars - a Tesla is not immune to bad drivers.

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:27:56 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:46:57 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

The junk yard. Maybe somebody like this?

https://batteryjoe.com/builds-rebuilds/

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"

Nah. There will always be people who demand even more smug.

I drove my first hybrid last week. After figuring out that it was a
hybrid (it was a rental and no one told me what it was) it was
"interesting". Fairly nice on MPG (~43). I'd buy one for a commuter,
long before I'd buy an electric. A rechargeable hybrid might be a
reasonable compromise. Battery cost/life is still an issue, though.

I don't get why people insist on being ignorant about issues where they only need to get a little information. There is no indication that EV batteries will wear out any faster than the engine and transmission of ICE autos. In fact, the data shows them to be much longer lived.

But if you are ignorant of the facts, then you will say things like, it is "still and issue".

Like they say, you can't fix stupid, especially when it's willful.

--

Rick C.

-+-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 08:53:06 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:31:26 +0100, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/06/2019 15:29, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:35:54 +0100, Martin Brown

I wonder how well they will work after being crushed?

Just install giant induction loops under every street.

Electric trams with overhead wires are making a comeback.
Manchester has an extensive network of them now.

We have a lot of electric public transportation here. It's very
reliable and works well underground.

And we have cable cars! One giant electric motor powers the whole
system. Cars going downhill donate their power to cars going uphill.

A cable car does have one lead-acid battery to run the lights.

https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/muni/cable-cars

That's just *nuts*. Don't they realize that someone could fall off
and get hurt?! What would that do to Obamacare costs?

Great fun, especially hanging on outside at night. The Hyde Street
line is best.

....and people watch the homeless, hookers, and other druggies.

 

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:29:21 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:35:54 +0100, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/06/2019 18:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/06/2019 15:20, TTman wrote:
On 17/06/2019 10:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/06/2019 03:05, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On 16 Jun 2019 09:41:26 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...

I can charge on the street, if I can park within two
car spots of my driveway.  Apartment dwellers in a
crowded city have a problem.  Several are like that
here at work, but they can charge up in our garage.

You're allowed to put a power cord across the public right-of-way
(sidewalk, boulevard, etc.)?

No, can't see that being looked upon favourably. There are a few
kerbside charging points on the street though.

Here is a relatively new example:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/105814/uk-firm-launches-public-ev-chargers-embedded-into-kerb

That looks like it's dead in the water.... How long before it gets
trashed by vandals/water/dirt etc?.Madness and a trip hazard to all
those who walk with a mobile welded to their ear... LOL

Yup it does seem like an odd design, not sure what it is supposed to
achieve over the more traditional street side charging points.

A cull of people who don't watch where they put their feet with every
step. What sort of clueless halfwit installs trip hazards on a kerb?

The small pole thing looks more plausible although they will get very
interesting when SUVs and delivery vans mount the kerb and smash them.
You only have to look at the state of roadside bollards and smashed up
paving slabs to see how it will end.

I wonder how well they will work after being crushed?

Just install giant induction loops under every street.

Just put solar cells on the cars. Then you can have lights that come
out at night.

Or big lasers on lamp posts to beam power down onto cars.

Or back wheels that are larger than the front wheels.

Or - best idea so far - store electric power in liquid form so a car
can stash a lot in a lightweight tank instead of heavy batteries.

Protons would work. We just need a way to stick them together.

Someone needs to invent the electron.

 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:31:23 -0700 (PDT), keith@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Tuesday, 18 June 2019 19:47:05 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?
...

Why would a Tesla owner need a replacement battery?

Yeah, they just replace their homes when the garbage cans fill up too.

They are not something that is high on the list for repair. There have been a few replaced although in many of those it was not the cells that caused trouble, it was the surrounding circuitry that is in the battery pack. These items are mainly off the shelf electronic components and so probably repairable even without Tesla's assistance if needed.

More than a few. It's instructive that there are used Tesla batteries
for sale (a cow-orker bought some for a project at work).

 

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:46:57 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

The junk yard. Maybe somebody like this?

<https://batteryjoe.com/builds-rebuilds/

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"

Nah. There will always be people who demand even more smug.

I drove my first hybrid last week. After figuring out that it was a
hybrid (it was a rental and no one told me what it was) it was
"interesting". Fairly nice on MPG (~43). I'd buy one for a commuter,
long before I'd buy an electric. A rechargeable hybrid might be a
reasonable compromise. Battery cost/life is still an issue, though.

 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:31:12 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:23:30 +0100, Clive Arthur
cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/06/2019 14:56, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:35:29 +0100, Clive Arthur
cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 16/06/2019 16:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:08:52 +1000, Chris Jones

snipped

I was surprised how common it is in the UK to have instant electric
water heaters for showers, often 10kW or more. Here is a typical example:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-sprint-multi-fit-white-10-8kw-electric-shower/257fr


Two year guarantee? Labor probably not included. Interesting that it
has temperature control *and* power control. "Sure, I feel like a cold
shower today because the grid is stressed."

Temperature is controlled by adjusting the flow rate through the heater,
but for a 10kW shower the element is usually tapped so you can have
lower power for hot days when the input temperature is high.

Why not use a triac?

I'm not a shower designer, but the method used works well and is
reliable, I guess it's cheaper too. And you'd still need the flow
control knob unless you restrict the flow to something which 10kW at the
coldest input could heat adequately.

Cheers

That sounds like a lot of complexity to take a shower. We have a
gas-fired 80 gallon hot water tank and two knobs in the shower, hot
and cold.

Ours is electric. Electricity is cheap enough and our water heater
doesn't need to be portable. Batteries not included.

>I like long hot showers, because I have ideas in the shower.

I'm still asleep at that time of the morning (and the gym has "free"
hot water, in the evening).

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 22:32:39 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:29:21 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:35:54 +0100, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/06/2019 18:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/06/2019 15:20, TTman wrote:
On 17/06/2019 10:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/06/2019 03:05, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On 16 Jun 2019 09:41:26 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...

I can charge on the street, if I can park within two
car spots of my driveway.  Apartment dwellers in a
crowded city have a problem.  Several are like that
here at work, but they can charge up in our garage.

You're allowed to put a power cord across the public right-of-way
(sidewalk, boulevard, etc.)?

No, can't see that being looked upon favourably. There are a few
kerbside charging points on the street though.

Here is a relatively new example:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/105814/uk-firm-launches-public-ev-chargers-embedded-into-kerb

That looks like it's dead in the water.... How long before it gets
trashed by vandals/water/dirt etc?.Madness and a trip hazard to all
those who walk with a mobile welded to their ear... LOL

Yup it does seem like an odd design, not sure what it is supposed to
achieve over the more traditional street side charging points.

A cull of people who don't watch where they put their feet with every
step. What sort of clueless halfwit installs trip hazards on a kerb?

The small pole thing looks more plausible although they will get very
interesting when SUVs and delivery vans mount the kerb and smash them.
You only have to look at the state of roadside bollards and smashed up
paving slabs to see how it will end.

I wonder how well they will work after being crushed?

Just install giant induction loops under every street.

Just put solar cells on the cars. Then you can have lights that come
out at night.

Or big lasers on lamp posts to beam power down onto cars.

Or back wheels that are larger than the front wheels.

Or - best idea so far - store electric power in liquid form so a car
can stash a lot in a lightweight tank instead of heavy batteries.

Protons would work. We just need a way to stick them together.

Someone needs to invent the electron.

There is rumored to be some lightweight atom in the periodic table
that FOUR hydrogen atoms will stick to.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 22:35:17 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 08:53:06 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:31:26 +0100, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/06/2019 15:29, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:35:54 +0100, Martin Brown

I wonder how well they will work after being crushed?

Just install giant induction loops under every street.

Electric trams with overhead wires are making a comeback.
Manchester has an extensive network of them now.

We have a lot of electric public transportation here. It's very
reliable and works well underground.

And we have cable cars! One giant electric motor powers the whole
system. Cars going downhill donate their power to cars going uphill.

A cable car does have one lead-acid battery to run the lights.

https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/muni/cable-cars

That's just *nuts*. Don't they realize that someone could fall off
and get hurt?! What would that do to Obamacare costs?

There a metal thing that extends down into the slot to grip the cable
when the operator pulls on a giant wooden lever. Once in a great while
the grip jams in the slot and stops the car dead, often on a hill.
That spills a half dozen tourists off, and they roll down the hill for
a block or two. Great fun.

Great fun, especially hanging on outside at night. The Hyde Street
line is best.

...and people watch the homeless, hookers, and other druggies.

Yes, parts of SF are very bad. We don't go to those parts. The rest is
very nice. This is just down the block:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4p6uczwai8uso43/Glen_Canyon_2.jpg?raw=1

I grew up in flatland, so this 3D stuff still impresses me.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 22:14:32 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:31:12 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:23:30 +0100, Clive Arthur
cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/06/2019 14:56, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:35:29 +0100, Clive Arthur
cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 16/06/2019 16:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:08:52 +1000, Chris Jones

snipped

I was surprised how common it is in the UK to have instant electric
water heaters for showers, often 10kW or more. Here is a typical example:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-sprint-multi-fit-white-10-8kw-electric-shower/257fr


Two year guarantee? Labor probably not included. Interesting that it
has temperature control *and* power control. "Sure, I feel like a cold
shower today because the grid is stressed."

Temperature is controlled by adjusting the flow rate through the heater,
but for a 10kW shower the element is usually tapped so you can have
lower power for hot days when the input temperature is high.

Why not use a triac?

I'm not a shower designer, but the method used works well and is
reliable, I guess it's cheaper too. And you'd still need the flow
control knob unless you restrict the flow to something which 10kW at the
coldest input could heat adequately.

Cheers

That sounds like a lot of complexity to take a shower. We have a
gas-fired 80 gallon hot water tank and two knobs in the shower, hot
and cold.

Ours is electric. Electricity is cheap enough and our water heater
doesn't need to be portable. Batteries not included.

I like long hot showers, because I have ideas in the shower.

I'm still asleep at that time of the morning (and the gym has "free"
hot water, in the evening).

What I think happens is that my brain works while I sleep, and the
results are delivered in the shower, just as the coffee and sugar are
kicking in.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[andy@hotmail.com]

On Wednesday, 19 June 2019 14:33:31 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
....

I'm not a shower designer, but the method used works well and is
reliable, I guess it's cheaper too. And you'd still need the flow
control knob unless you restrict the flow to something which 10kW at the
coldest input could heat adequately.

Cheers

That sounds like a lot of complexity to take a shower. We have a
gas-fired 80 gallon hot water tank and two knobs in the shower, hot
and cold.
...

Many older houses were not plumbed for hot water - it would be even more complex and expensive to put in the required plumbing.

I remember as a child using a tin bath in front of the fire because the house didn't have a bathroom or even plumbing.

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 11:23:51 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

There is rumored to be some lightweight atom in the periodic table
that FOUR hydrogen atoms will stick to.

I wonder if this guy is getting senile. He really does go on about things without having any understanding of topics at all.

--

Rick C.

-++-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:38:21 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:27:56 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:46:57 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

The junk yard. Maybe somebody like this?

https://batteryjoe.com/builds-rebuilds/

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"

Nah. There will always be people who demand even more smug.

I drove my first hybrid last week. After figuring out that it was a
hybrid (it was a rental and no one told me what it was) it was
"interesting". Fairly nice on MPG (~43). I'd buy one for a commuter,
long before I'd buy an electric. A rechargeable hybrid might be a
reasonable compromise. Battery cost/life is still an issue, though.

I don't get why people insist on being ignorant about issues where they only need to get a little information. There is no indication that EV batteries will wear out any faster than the engine and transmission of ICE autos. In fact, the data shows them to be much longer lived.

What do you consider the lifetime an ICE car to be ? 10 years ? 20
years ?

There has not been a large deployment of EVs in the last two decades.
More like 5 years, so we do not have a long time experience.

All kinds of batteries have a limited number of charge/discharge
cycles, during which the storage capacity is gradually reduced.

Or do you claim that Tesla has invented some completely new chemistry
that doesn't suffer from storage capacity degrading ?

But if you are ignorant of the facts, then you will say things like, it is "still and issue".

Like they say, you can't fix stupid, especially when it's willful.

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 1:16:36 AM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:38:21 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:27:56 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:46:57 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

The junk yard. Maybe somebody like this?

https://batteryjoe.com/builds-rebuilds/

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"

Nah. There will always be people who demand even more smug.

I drove my first hybrid last week. After figuring out that it was a
hybrid (it was a rental and no one told me what it was) it was
"interesting". Fairly nice on MPG (~43). I'd buy one for a commuter,
long before I'd buy an electric. A rechargeable hybrid might be a
reasonable compromise. Battery cost/life is still an issue, though.

I don't get why people insist on being ignorant about issues where they only need to get a little information. There is no indication that EV batteries will wear out any faster than the engine and transmission of ICE autos. In fact, the data shows them to be much longer lived.

What do you consider the lifetime an ICE car to be ? 10 years ? 20
years ?

Most wear mechanisms on cars are not time related, but rather use... miles. I had 255,000 on my truck and most people were impressed. It was still going strong (well not really, I suspect it was getting low on compression) but repairs were starting to add up. Over the years there had been a number of significant repairs. But only one in the drive train, worn out clutch..

I met a guy with 175,000 miles on his model S and he said his battery had not degraded significantly. Far from the -20% Tesla set for the warranty threshold. I wish I could find the graph Musk provided once. It plotted capacity % vs number of charges for a number of charging ranges, e.g. 20% to 80%, 10% to 90%, 0% to 100%. They will caution you not to charge to 100% all the time, but the accelerated wear is actually small. This chart showed some thousands of charges before reaching 80% capacity. That equates to >300,000 miles if not 500,000 miles.

My car has an 8 year, unlimited mileage warranty on the battery and drive unit. New model 3s have 8 years or 100,000 miles on the smaller battery or 120,000 miles on the larger one. How many ICE have that?

There has not been a large deployment of EVs in the last two decades.
More like 5 years, so we do not have a long time experience.

All kinds of batteries have a limited number of charge/discharge
cycles, during which the storage capacity is gradually reduced.

Yes, age is not the relevant factor. But model S has been sold since 2012 which is 7 years.

Or do you claim that Tesla has invented some completely new chemistry
that doesn't suffer from storage capacity degrading ?

Where did you see me say that? No one has said EVs won't wear out. But properly designed EVs should outlast an ICE. The Nissan Leaf appears to be rather shorter lived than the Teslas. Seems they don't do as many things to protect the battery.

--

Rick C.

-++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:42:14 -0700 (PDT), "none@noname.com"
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 June 2019 19:30:17 UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
...

Why would a Tesla owner need a replacement battery?

Yeah, they just replace their homes when the garbage cans fill up too.

They are not a normal replacement item - they will last the lifetime of the car

The cars are worse than I thought! Junk!

They are not something that is high on the list for repair. There have been a few replaced although in many of those it was not the cells that caused trouble, it was the surrounding circuitry that is in the battery pack. These items are mainly off the shelf electronic components and so probably repairable even without Tesla's assistance if needed.

More than a few. It's instructive that there are used Tesla batteries

There are used Audi gearboxes for sale - does that mean that I should expect to have to replace them?

Yes.

for sale (a cow-orker bought some for a project at work).

So presumably they hadn't failed.

They were lower capacity. Used batteries are.

>I expect that most are from wrecked cars - a Tesla is not immune to bad drivers.

And those buying them are using them for fishing sinkers?

 

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 08:16:34 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:38:21 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:27:56 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:46:57 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

The junk yard. Maybe somebody like this?

https://batteryjoe.com/builds-rebuilds/

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"

Nah. There will always be people who demand even more smug.

I drove my first hybrid last week. After figuring out that it was a
hybrid (it was a rental and no one told me what it was) it was
"interesting". Fairly nice on MPG (~43). I'd buy one for a commuter,
long before I'd buy an electric. A rechargeable hybrid might be a
reasonable compromise. Battery cost/life is still an issue, though.

I don't get why people insist on being ignorant about issues where they only need to get a little information. There is no indication that EV batteries will wear out any faster than the engine and transmission of ICE autos. In fact, the data shows them to be much longer lived.

What do you consider the lifetime an ICE car to be ? 10 years ? 20
years ?

There has not been a large deployment of EVs in the last two decades.
More like 5 years, so we do not have a long time experience.

All kinds of batteries have a limited number of charge/discharge
cycles, during which the storage capacity is gradually reduced.

Around 500 for Li-Ion. LiFePO4 is better but lower capacity to begin
with.

Or do you claim that Tesla has invented some completely new chemistry
that doesn't suffer from storage capacity degrading ?

Yeah. Fanboi chemistry. See no evil...

But if you are ignorant of the facts, then you will say things like, it is "still and issue".

Like they say, you can't fix stupid, especially when it's willful.

 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:38:21 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:27:56 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:46:57 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

The junk yard. Maybe somebody like this?

https://batteryjoe.com/builds-rebuilds/

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"

Nah. There will always be people who demand even more smug.

I drove my first hybrid last week. After figuring out that it was a
hybrid (it was a rental and no one told me what it was) it was
"interesting". Fairly nice on MPG (~43). I'd buy one for a commuter,
long before I'd buy an electric. A rechargeable hybrid might be a
reasonable compromise. Battery cost/life is still an issue, though.

I don't get why people insist on being ignorant about issues where they only need to get a little information. There is no indication that EV batteries will wear out any faster than the engine and transmission of ICE autos. In fact, the data shows them to be much longer lived.

But if you are ignorant of the facts, then you will say things like, it is "still and issue".

Like they say, you can't fix stupid, especially when it's willful.

I don't get how some people can be such fanbois. For *anything*.

 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:54:12 -0700 (PDT), "andy@hotmail.com"
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 June 2019 14:33:31 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...
I'm not a shower designer, but the method used works well and is
reliable, I guess it's cheaper too. And you'd still need the flow
control knob unless you restrict the flow to something which 10kW at the
coldest input could heat adequately.

Cheers

That sounds like a lot of complexity to take a shower. We have a
gas-fired 80 gallon hot water tank and two knobs in the shower, hot
and cold.
..

Many older houses were not plumbed for hot water - it would be even more complex and expensive to put in the required plumbing.

How barbaric. I get pissed because the water heater is at the other
end of the house from the bathroom - something like 70' away.

>I remember as a child using a tin bath in front of the fire because the house didn't have a bathroom or even plumbing.

 

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 22:33:41 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:38:21 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:27:56 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:46:57 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

The junk yard. Maybe somebody like this?

https://batteryjoe.com/builds-rebuilds/

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"

Nah. There will always be people who demand even more smug.

I drove my first hybrid last week. After figuring out that it was a
hybrid (it was a rental and no one told me what it was) it was
"interesting". Fairly nice on MPG (~43). I'd buy one for a commuter,
long before I'd buy an electric. A rechargeable hybrid might be a
reasonable compromise. Battery cost/life is still an issue, though.

I don't get why people insist on being ignorant about issues where they only need to get a little information. There is no indication that EV batteries will wear out any faster than the engine and transmission of ICE autos. In fact, the data shows them to be much longer lived.

But if you are ignorant of the facts, then you will say things like, it is "still and issue".

Like they say, you can't fix stupid, especially when it's willful.

I don't get how some people can be such fanbois. For *anything*.

The AlwaysWrong syndrome .

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 10:33:48 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:38:21 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 10:27:56 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:46:57 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:01:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:36:18 -0700, Rick C wrote:

That thing is so small. It looks like it should have a wind up key.
Jeeze, I see why he has Tesla envy. John, just give in to your desires
and get a model 3. But then you probably should get in line for a model
Y.

And John, don't leave it too long, act fast before Tesla goes bust!

After Tesla dies, where are people going to get replacement batteries?

The junk yard. Maybe somebody like this?

https://batteryjoe.com/builds-rebuilds/

It's going to be interesting. Teslas may go the way of PT Cruisers.
One day people wake up and say "Hey, that's ugly!"

Nah. There will always be people who demand even more smug.

I drove my first hybrid last week. After figuring out that it was a
hybrid (it was a rental and no one told me what it was) it was
"interesting". Fairly nice on MPG (~43). I'd buy one for a commuter,
long before I'd buy an electric. A rechargeable hybrid might be a
reasonable compromise. Battery cost/life is still an issue, though.

I don't get why people insist on being ignorant about issues where they only need to get a little information. There is no indication that EV batteries will wear out any faster than the engine and transmission of ICE autos. In fact, the data shows them to be much longer lived.

But if you are ignorant of the facts, then you will say things like, it is "still and issue".

Like they say, you can't fix stupid, especially when it's willful.

I don't get how some people can be such fanbois. For *anything*.

Thanks for proving me right. You are totally ignorant of the facts. That's why you have to attack the person, not the argument.

I get it. You don't know anything about EVs, but you want to hate them. Got it!

--

Rick C.

-+++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209