Electric Cars Require Fewer Jobs to Build

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

I did, back in the '80s. I drove over 13,000 miles in seven months. Most of that was just to and from work. I've reached the point that I hate driving her in Florida during Snowbird Season. Thousands of New England plates with mindless drivers weaving in and out of traffic, or speeding past you to make a right turn a they cut you off. It's no wonder why so many of them go home in body bags.

 

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

 

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 18:50:35 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.


I did, back in the '80s. I drove over 13,000 miles in seven months. Most of that was just to and from work. I've reached the point that I hate driving her in Florida during Snowbird Season. Thousands of New England plates with mindless drivers weaving in and out of traffic, or speeding past you to make a right turn a they cut you off. It's no wonder why so many of them go home in body bags.

Most of mine is to and from work.

 

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 18:53:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

It's just under that to and from work. There are also a few 1200mi
trips in there (and one this coming week).

>NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

Complete nonsense.

 

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 15:13:15 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:54:24 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 5:39:22 PM UTC+11, Phil Allison wrote:
upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

------------------------------


With a fixed horizontal 1 m˛ panel, you would be lucky, if you can
collect 1 kWh during a day, which translates to much less than 10
km/day for a regular EV.


** Very game of you to inject a bit of reality into a discussion of PVs and EVs with the resident free energy lunatics.

Likely to get you tarred and feathered, you know.

EVs are like sacred cows to Hindus.

The solar car race across Australia is real. Putting solar panels on the car is an impractical idea, if not entirely impracticable.

Put a battery in the car, and charge it from a solar farm for the 95% of the day when it is parked, and the whole idea is perfectly practical, as Win has demonstrated - his Prius seems to be of the sort than can have it's battery charged while it is parked, rather than rely on the little petrol engine alone to charge it up. He's bought very little gasoline for the car since he got it.

There is nothing impractical about charging a car from solar cells on the roof. It may not be the only source of power you need, but there is nothing special about them being on the roof except it is likely a bit more efficient to avoid the conversion to and from AC.

The problem is the low output, sufficiently to drive some fans or some
low power air conditioner.

>What part of this do you think makes it impractical? I believe I read some company is going to do exactly that with their cars. It will add what to the price of the car, a very few hundred dollars?

If you keep the car in a sunny car park and you may drive to the
supermarket during Saturday.

 

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 18:53:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

Such efficiency numbers are fishy and at least requires expensive
multijunction panels.

Isn't Level 1 charger capable of delivering 1.5 - 2 kW ? At the
equator within 2 hours from noon a 40 % 1 m˛ panel would produce 400
W. so a 4-5 m˛ panel would be required. It would require a large roof
and hood. How much do you have to derate a multijunction panels during
the years ?

 

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 15:15:37 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 4:01:46 AM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 23:47:25 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:56:49 PM UTC+11, Phil Allison wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:

The logic is spelled out.

** Sorry - it is mad logic from a know nothing nobody.

Which particular bit do you disagree with?

** The method.

That's a little unspecific.

"Mad logic from a know nothing nobody" has a fine rhetorical ring,
but absolutely zero content.

** The source is non credible and the logic used false.

The credibility is a matter of opinion, and you haven't identified any particular step in the chain of logic as false.

The step from 4443 TWh of potential enegry in the gasoline sold to 1111 TWh of energy used to drive the car wheels around is a bit crude, but the potential error is a few perecent, not the order of magnitude that would be required to make you estimate plausible.

What exactly does that 4443 TWh include ? Does it contain only that
amount of gasoline burnt in cars and not in lawn movers or used as
solvent etc. Is the figure only gasoline and not diesel fuel used in
cars, trucks and buses ?

The 25 % thermodynamic efficiency assumed for a gasoline car might be
a bit optimistic, so the 1111 TWh might be on the high side.

The other estimation used in this thread is based on the total milage
in the US. This resulted an guesstimate below 900 TWh. Does that
milage driven include only gasoline driven cars or also diesel cars ?
Does it contain also milage for trucks and buses ?

Anyway, the two guestimates are within 10-20 % from each other, which
is sufficient for an order of magnitude comparison.

Comparing EVs and ICE fuel in terms of the energy used is pointless because of the more arbitrary efficiency numbers. Just look at the miles driven and how much electricity is required and you are done.

Do smart phone companies report all your movements to the government
so that they can calculate all your annual movement and make a statics
about driven distances ? What about two or more persons in a car or
people without smart phones ?

Is all car owner required to report their annual odometer reading ? Is
a functioning odometer required in order to drive a car. ? How
accurate are odometers, different wheel sizes, different air pressure
and wear ?

Those milage numbers are as unreliable as the engine efficiency
numbers.

For this discussion, I think it would be sufficient to assume 1 PWh
annual consumption in the USA, the fuel efficiency guesstimations were
slightly larger, the milage driven guesstimate was slightly less.

 

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 10:00:53 PM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 18:53:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

Such efficiency numbers are fishy and at least requires expensive
multijunction panels.

Yes, they are expensive, but so are batteries.

Isn't Level 1 charger capable of delivering 1.5 - 2 kW ? At the
equator within 2 hours from noon a 40 % 1 m² panel would produce 400
W. so a 4-5 m² panel would be required. It would require a large roof
and hood. How much do you have to derate a multijunction panels during
the years ?

OK, more like level 0.75. My hatch back has more than 3 m² of roof/hood spaces, so around 1200W on 40%. I think level 1 is around 1600W.

 

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 7:14:05 AM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 9:53:49 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

What EV are you driving? What is your home charging situation that you have to drive to charge?

I have a 50 miles Leaf. I park in a garage with fast charger nearby (5 cents per minutes) and a free fast charger (Nissan dealer) 10 miles south. Have a shop 10 miles north, but usually have lunch 10 miles east. So, my typical days are: 10 miles north, 10 miles south, charge, 10 miles south, charge, 15 miles north-west, eat, 10 miles east, charge, 10 miles north, 10 miles south, charge.

In the process of moving my shop closer to the Nissan dealer. Should cut down on lots of driving and charging.

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 10:07:51 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 18:53:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

It's just under that to and from work. There are also a few 1200mi
trips in there (and one this coming week).

NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

Complete nonsense.

Yes, many times you are full of nonsense.

That would provide me with 200 miles of charging a week give or take. It would certainly reduce my charging and potentially make it practical for me to charge at home and not need to use Supercharging at all.

--

Rick C.

--+-- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 9:53:49 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year..

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

What EV are you driving? What is your home charging situation that you have to drive to charge?

I pretty much always charge at Superchargers, but that's because of my not typical driving habits. I spend a few days at home with virtually no driving, then drove 125 miles to my hometown where I do around 100 miles of local charging and then 125 miles back. Just because of the location of the available charging, no matter what, I will pretty much have to charge twice in this round trip loop, so I don't bother to charge at home at all. At the destination I don't charge at friend's houses either. Tesla will have a Supercharger there soon, so things will change and I'll likely charge at home.

--

Rick C.

---++ Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
---++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 12:36:10 PM UTC+11, k...@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 16:24:30 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

Correction, AlwaysWrong is an "equally UNQUALIFIED" troll...

No, no, no. AlwaysWrong is an exceptionally qualified troll.

And krw is one of the more persistent trolls around here so he ought to know.

Of course the idea of krw "knowing" anything is pretty odd. He's confident about his misconceptions over a whole range of subjects, but since he can't recognise or correct his errors, what we see here is just a reflex loop - give it a particular specific stimulus and you always get the same reaction..

He clearly stopped acquiring knowledge some time ago, and now just exhibits stereotyped reactions.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rob]

bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

I think it may actually a high intensity array of white LEDs, not a
strobe. People put all sorts of weird crap on the license plates to try
to defeat 'em like IR LEDs or blinking LEDs pointing backwards, and
darkly tinted plate covers, reflective tape, stuff like that. High
intensity visible light flash will defeat any of that low-effort ideas I
believe.

Over here that is an offense that would result in a hefty fine when
you are caught. Maybe that is because most traffic tickets are issued
after cameras have taken pictures some way, and it has been like that
for decades. I believe in the USA for many situations it is required
that you are being stopped by a policeman, but that rarely happens here.

 

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 18:53:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

What is Nova Solix ? Is it listed in some reputable stock exchange
(such as NASDAQ) ? If it is a listed company, then it must be very
careful about press releases and not at least lie directly.

A research group or a non-listed startup company can lie as much as it
likes in press releases. Thus be very sceptical about such press
releases.

It's a local startup. They claimed to have demo a 42% panel and can go up eventually. Give them a few years to prove it. I would be more than happy to test it out for them.

 

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 18:53:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:40:36 PM UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:05:18 AM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:

"Sono Motors suggests its car charge up just over 18 miles on a 24% efficient solar cell. If NovaSolix can get to that 90% number, that’s 67 miles of sunlight driving. The average daily miles driven in the USA is about 40 miles per person."


14,600 miles per year? I generally drive under 3,000 miles per year.

And we drive well over 15,000 miles on each vehicle each year.

So, average of 14,000 per year or 40 miles per day sound right. Actually, i drive more due to limited charging stations and keep making additional trips to keep charge up. With on-board solar charger, i can probably drive less.

NovaSolix's 40% solar modules on roof and hood is close to a level 1 charger onboard.

What is Nova Solix ? Is it listed in some reputable stock exchange
(such as NASDAQ) ? If it is a listed company, then it must be very
careful about press releases and not at least lie directly.

A research group or a non-listed startup company can lie as much as it
likes in press releases. Thus be very sceptical about such press
releases.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2019-10-07 12:49, Rob wrote:

bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
I think it may actually a high intensity array of white LEDs, not a
strobe. People put all sorts of weird crap on the license plates to try
to defeat 'em like IR LEDs or blinking LEDs pointing backwards, and
darkly tinted plate covers, reflective tape, stuff like that. High
intensity visible light flash will defeat any of that low-effort ideas I
believe.

Over here that is an offense that would result in a hefty fine when
you are caught. Maybe that is because most traffic tickets are issued
after cameras have taken pictures some way, and it has been like that
for decades. I believe in the USA for many situations it is required
that you are being stopped by a policeman, but that rarely happens here.

It's that "habeas corpus" thing that was brought in with the Magna
Carta, you see.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 14:17:23 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

>An America-bashing Third World troll...

Who hasn't himself worked in decades.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 08:54:43 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:n1ffpe5ed6q28vjl4ea2r2g4q2bs2jma1l@4ax.com:

If you don't like your job, quit and find a better one. Employers
have to compete for employees.


Not in a repressed economy. The hold over the employees head the
fact that there are hundreds of candidates out there chomping at the
bit waiting for good job openings.

The hold over our employees heads is salary, 401K, bonuses, medical
care, interesting work, great people to work with, and free ice cream
sandwiches.

 

[Phil Allison]

John Larkin wrote:

-----------------

The hold over our employees heads is salary, 401K, bonuses, medical
care, interesting work, great people to work with, and free ice cream
sandwiches.

** However, But the boss is a Aspergers nut case and egomanic who micro-manages, insults, stalks and harasses anyone who he sees as different to himself.

Plus he lacks all normal social and conversational skills.

I have worked for people like him, but NOT for long.

Two of them were pommies and the third a Scientologist.


..... Phil