Electric Cars Not Yet Viable

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 17:49:39 +0000 (UTC), DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
<DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org> wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1915008c-44c6-43dc-949c-3765c77779d0@googlegroups.com:

Placing a magnet close to the meter can saturate the disk and make
it less responsive to the AC current.

'the disc' is Aluminum.

Yes.

By 'saturate' I guess you mean that the molecular alignment gets
locked and no longer follows the sine wave of the power signature.

I sure hope that's not what he means.

I am still skeptical that there is any influence. Must take a pretty
big magnet too.

A really big static field could add a little eddy-current damping and
slow the disk. The disk speed is already controlled by eddy damping
from a permanent magnet.

If an external PM opposes the local damping field, the disk could spin
faster!



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:18:41 PM UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 09:35:46 -0700 (PDT), keith wright
keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Saturday, 29 June 2019 10:53:48 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...

A fraction of the planet's current human population would survive
without the energy, materials, and fertilizers that we get from oil
and gas.
...

So wouldn't it be better to save the valuable oil for making materials and fertilizers rather than sending it up in smoke?

Depends on how many people you are willing to kill.

You don't hve to give up on energy intensive technology - you just have to exploit other energy sources.

Keeping on dumping more CO2 into the atmosphere means more intense tropical cylones and typhoons, which also kill people. John Larkin can't think things through.

> When NG burns, there is no smoke.

But quite a bit of CO2.

Oil is too valuable a chemical feedstock to waste where there are good alternatives.

Hydro is great, but some people don't like dams.

Nukes, ditto.

Solar power has some advantages in places such as India where it can provide great benefits without high investments in infrastructure.


Solar and wind have the obvious intermittency and storage problems,
for anything past occasional loads (like water pumping) and light
loads (cell phones, LED lighting.)

Intermittency is a problem. But batteries and pumped storage offer a perfectly practical solution. It will be a while before we have enough of either sort of storage to cope the bulk of the demand, but it is also going to be while before we've got enough installed solar and wind generation to need all tha much storage.

India is increasingly using coal to generate electricity.

Australia is happy to sell it to them. Ditto China, Korea, and Japan.

And if we didn't we could expect a regime change to a government that would be willing to sell it to them. Americans know about banana republics, but China has the same kind of clout these days.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:47:25 -0700 (PDT), keith wright
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 30 June 2019 10:22:18 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...
This seems to assume no further technical developments. What about phosphate cathodes, other metal based chemistries such as sodium or potassium. How about super capacitors? All those reduce or eliminate cobalt.

Capacitors store an absurdly small amount of energy

Currently yes - but do you know any theoretical limits?

batteries, which themselves store a lot less than hydrocarbon fuel.

With current vehicles the ratio is only about 4:1 in favour of hydrocarbons when the conversion efficiency is taken into account.


Induction or reluctance switch motors don't use any rare-earth metals and the innovations such as the Halbach array that Tesla uses can reduce the amount used for the magnets with permanent magnet motors.

Yes, there are challenges but there is also room for innovation.

Sure. Let the market decide.

If we want to level the playing field we will need to increase subsidies to EVs and renewable energy in general!

No, we should eliminate subsidies of all kinds.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/danielle-droitsch/time-us-end-fossil-fuel-subsidies

If the US keeps burying its head in the sand and living in the past it will be left behind in future markets as it is out-developed by China and Europe.

China is going for coal big-time, all over the world. Mostly
unfiltered. Let them win that competition.

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/china-smog-03032016135155.html/china-smog-03032016.jpg/@@images/6b2c2e62-3043-444e-accc-a87227abb80d.jpeg


We work with a giant European tech outfit. It takes them 10x, 20x as
long to do something as we can. If I want to delay a program, I just
ask them a couple of simple questions. And wait. Fun.





--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 6:35:50 PM UTC+2, keith wright wrote:

On Saturday, 29 June 2019 10:53:48 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...

A fraction of the planet's current human population would survive
without the energy, materials, and fertilizers that we get from oil
and gas.
...

That we now mostly get from burning oil and gas. John Larkin thinks the world has to keep on working exactly the same way that it did when he was growing up.

So wouldn't it be better to save the valuable oil for making materials and fertilizers rather than sending it up in smoke?

Oil is too valuable a chemical feedstock to waste where there are good alternatives.

Solar power has some advantages in places such as India where it can provide great benefits without high investments in infrastructure.

Not only India.

In Australia - where the government is in the pocket of the mining interests, and wants the power generating companies to build more fossil-carbon fueled power stations - the power generating comapnies are investing heavily in solar cell farms and wind turbines. They generate power more cheaply than even new fossil-carbon fueled generating plants can manage, and the governing party's desire to keep their more generous contributors happy doesn't have any traction at all.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 20:25:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 12:11:01 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

No, we should eliminate subsidies of all kinds.

+1

We work with a giant European tech outfit. It takes them 10x, 20x as
long to do something as we can. If I want to delay a program, I just ask
them a couple of simple questions. And wait. Fun.

:-D That's EU red tape for you.

Their "management pyramid" is more egg-shaped, a huge bulge of middle
management that knows nothing, does nothing, and just has eternal
meetings with itself. I've been to a few. These people think (pretend
to think) in PowerPoint.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 12:11:01 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

> No, we should eliminate subsidies of all kinds.

+1

We work with a giant European tech outfit. It takes them 10x, 20x as
long to do something as we can. If I want to delay a program, I just ask
them a couple of simple questions. And wait. Fun.

:-D That's EU red tape for you.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

søndag den 30. juni 2019 kl. 20.07.50 UTC+2 skrev upsid...@downunder.com:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 16:52:44 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 08:55:05 -0700, Michael Terrell wrote:

Buses and construction equipment was store in heated garages at the
Motor Pool. It wasn't uncommon to have to tow a diesel vehicle to those
garages when they stopped running due to the cold. Let them sit
overnight, and they would fire right up.

I saw this documentary about Russian truck drivers in Siberia. During the
winter months, they had to get up 90 minutes early to start a fire under
the engines of their trucks. Yes, a REAL actual FIRE! They'd let it burn
for over an hour to loosen everything up, then fire 'em up. This method
was primitive, but didn't require any electrical supply which might fail
or be unavailable wherever they'd parked up, and it worked 100% of the
time. Russians. Yeah, *they're* the boys.

An even better tactic is letting the engine run through the night, so
the engine might run continuously through the whole winter.

I do not know how effective this is, but if the engine was shut down
for the night, the lorry driver sometimes left the cabin light on
through the night. This was supposed to keep the battery warmer, thus
the capacity loss was not so bad and the engine might start easier.

During the Winter War 1939/40 the temperature was often -40 C. Finnish
Air Force mechanics sometimes emptied the engine oil into kettles
after the last sortie for the evening. The kettles were kept on open
fire through the night and the warm oil was poured back into the
engines just before the first sortie the next morning.

I've heard of dumping gasoline in the oil before shutting down to make it thinner, the fuel evaporate once the engine is heated up again

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 9:23:57 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 30/06/19 13:30, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:30:48 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:08:07 -0700, Rick C wrote:

Cities like Washington, DC already have streets lined with parking
meters. They have more recently introduced kiosks where you pay for
anywhere on the block and put the receipt visible in the car, so a single
larger ugly thing rather than a number of smaller ugly things.

I'll bet few buyers have considered the implications if they live in a
conservation area where stuff like that would never get passed. Not sure if
you have those in America, but they're extremely common in the UK.

We have them, but people aren't anal about things like street lighting (is
that allowed in the conservation districts?) and other improvements to the
public areas. We tend to conserve the buildings, not the lifestyle.

They may or may not be extremely anal about changes;
it depends on the area, the changes and the local
authorities.

For example, a city near me states:

There are 33 conservation areas in Bristol. Conservation
areas have a special character and appearance and we aim
to preserve or enhance them. A conservation area might
have:
historic road patterns, plots and boundaries
characteristic building materials and construction techniques
historic building uses
green spaces
*trees and street furniture*
distinctive views

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/planning-and-building-regulations/conservation-areas

Note particularly the "trees and street furniture".

Do they allow autos? Seems like they should have been banned long ago when they were truly disgusting making noises, producing pollution and being a hazard to people and animals in the street. Oh, wait, they are still like that.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 1:22:18 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 09:49:42 -0700 (PDT), keith wright
keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

Yes, there are challenges but there is also room for innovation.

Sure. Let the market decide.

I agree. Time to end subsidies and tax breaks to the petrochemical companies.

--

Rick C.

+-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 08:27:02 -0700, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, June 29, 2019 at 1:29:12 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

In the old garden of Eden, there was no economy; all needs were
satisfied.

That was simple, since there were only two people to provide for.

And since they didn't actually exist, it was even simpler than that!

Thought experiment...

--

Rick C.

+-+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 12:49:46 PM UTC-4, keith wright wrote:

On Saturday, 29 June 2019 10:56:23 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
..
===
The metal resource needed to make all cars and vans electric by 2050
and all sales to be purely battery electric by 2035. To replace all
UK-based vehicles today with electric vehicles (not including the LGV
and HGV fleets), assuming they use the most resource-frugal
next-generation NMC 811 batteries, would take 207,900 tonnes cobalt,
264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate (LCE), at least 7,200 tonnes of
neodymium and dysprosium, in addition to 2,362,500 tonnes copper. This
represents, just under two times the total annual world cobalt
production, nearly the entire world production of neodymium, three
quarters the world’s lithium production and at least half of the
world’s copper production during 2018. Even ensuring the annual supply
of electric vehicles only, from 2035 as pledged, will require the UK
to annually import the equivalent of the entire annual cobalt needs of
European industry.

====
This seems to assume no further technical developments. What about phosphate cathodes, other metal based chemistries such as sodium or potassium. How about super capacitors? All those reduce or eliminate cobalt.

Induction or reluctance switch motors don't use any rare-earth metals and the innovations such as the Halbach array that Tesla uses can reduce the amount used for the magnets with permanent magnet motors.

Yes, there are challenges but there is also room for innovation.

I don't think it is going to be a problem. Sounds like there is no interest in EVs in the UK.

--

Rick C.

+--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 11:55:08 AM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 2:33:27 AM UTC-4, downunder wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 19:54:28 -0400, krw wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:39:13 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4 wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.

Funny thing is gas and diesel cars don't like cold. They get hard to start, can't heat the passengers until they are warmed up and require being warmed up to prevent damage to the drive train before driving at highway speeds. Jeeze, these ICE things are complicated to use. Makes you wonder why anyone wants them...

Hogwash! A well maintained, modern, gas car is trivial to start down
to -40ish. They were an issue with carburetors and coils but with
fuel injection and electronic ignition, they start quite easily. Even
diesels are relatively easy to start as long as the fuel doesn't gel
(again, a maintenance thing). Once started, either works just as well
as it does in warm weather.

At those temperatures, diesels can be problematic. Diesels are hard to
crank and the battery capacity falls rapidly. If you forgot to connect
the block heater in the evening, the car might not start in the
morning.

During the day, you nay gave to cover the hood with an old rug to
maintain some of the morning commute heat in the motor compartment.
Still you may have to drive a short trip during the lunch break to
keep the temperatures reasonable for the evening commute.

At temperatures down to -20 C, diesels behave quite well, but when
going down to -40 C, things get complicated.

E cars don't. Period.

In addition to battery issues,does e.g. power steering work from the
start or is the driver kept warm driving around without power
steering.

I spent a year where the average temperature was -40 during the winter. Each parking place had a 20A outlet for heaters. Lower heater hose, battery blanket and dipstick heaters. 20A was barely enough to keep the vehicle usable, and the engines were cool to the touch in minutes. You had to use cardboard to block the radiators, or the cold air would frees the coolant.

Buses and construction equipment was store in heated garages at the Motor Pool. It wasn't uncommon to have to tow a diesel vehicle to those garages when they stopped running due to the cold. Let them sit overnight, and they would fire right up.

The standard 90W gear oil had to be changed to 10W during the winter for the rear end, and manual transmissions. This was pre steel belted tire days, so the nylon cords would freeze with a flat spot on the bottom of your tires. It was called 'The land of the square tires', and they issued you a certificate for surviving a year there.

The official record low was -69F at the NWS site, over a heated building, the unofficial low was -79F, at an unheated test site.

I doubt that an EV would be worth a damn under these conditions. Heat pumps are useless at those temperatures, and I have doubts that the lubricants in the electric motors would be any good.

How much power would you need to even bring the interior up to zero, let alone anything comfortable? How many miles would you get on a full charge?

I expect you are right. I don't think Tesla has any plans to open dealerships in Antarctica either.

--

Rick C.

+--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 11:36:35 AM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, June 29, 2019 at 11:38:03 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:

I understand that Teslas burn pretty well.

I've heard that many fire departments aren't equipped to handle those fires so they have to just let them burn, while hosing down what's around them to keep the fire from spreading.

No special equipment. Hit it with water. The only issue with an EV is the battery can reignite if the internal shorts are not dealt with. One city in Europe has a water tank the dunk the car in for a day or so. That would not be a huge problem to install at the storage depots.


> I've seen one gasoline fueled car on fire, but it didn't emit the toxic chemicals that a burning EV does.

Total BS. The smoke from a gasoline fire is hugely toxic containing all manner of harmful hydrocarbons. We had a gasoline accident here around DC some years back that was so bad the road didn't open for days and the bridge it was under had to be inspected for structural damage. A battery fire will never destroy a bridge. Don't think that gasoline cars bursting into flames is not an unusual occurrence. "171,500 highway vehicle fires occurred in the United States, resulting in an annual average of 345 deaths; 1,300 injuries; and $1.1 billion in property loss." Nothing to sneeze at.


> What I've seen are request for foam equipment, like they use at airports but the cost is quite high, and would require separate trucks and crews so no one wants to pay for them on their taxes.

That is for gas fires where you want to smother the fuel. EV battery fires are fought with water and water alone. They don't need oxygen to burn which is what the foam prevents from reaching gas fires.

Try actually learning something about the issue rather than starting out hating something, then trying to make up an argument against it.

--

Rick C.

+--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 1:49:47 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1915008c-44c6-43dc-949c-3765c77779d0@googlegroups.com:

Placing a magnet close to the meter can saturate the disk and make
it less responsive to the AC current.

'the disc' is Aluminum.

By 'saturate' I guess you mean that the molecular alignment gets
locked and no longer follows the sine wave of the power signature.

I am still skeptical that there is any influence. Must take a pretty
big magnet too.

You can be skeptical if you want. Why would the power company outlaw it if there is no validity to it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgKQihUEFA0

--

Rick C.

+-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:44:37 -0700, Rick C wrote:

Do they allow autos? Seems like they should have been banned long ago
when they were truly disgusting making noises, producing pollution and
being a hazard to people and animals in the street. Oh, wait, they are
still like that.

That has absolutely no bearing on the matter at all.



--
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protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 9:11:07 PM UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:47:25 -0700 (PDT), keith wright
keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 30 June 2019 10:22:18 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...
This seems to assume no further technical developments. What about phosphate cathodes, other metal based chemistries such as sodium or potassium.. How about super capacitors? All those reduce or eliminate cobalt.

Capacitors store an absurdly small amount of energy

Currently yes - but do you know any theoretical limits?

batteries, which themselves store a lot less than hydrocarbon fuel.

With current vehicles the ratio is only about 4:1 in favour of hydrocarbons when the conversion efficiency is taken into account.


Induction or reluctance switch motors don't use any rare-earth metals and the innovations such as the Halbach array that Tesla uses can reduce the amount used for the magnets with permanent magnet motors.

Yes, there are challenges but there is also room for innovation.

Sure. Let the market decide.

If we want to level the playing field we will need to increase subsidies to EVs and renewable energy in general!

No, we should eliminate subsidies of all kinds.

Starting with all those subsidies to the fossil carbon extraction industries.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/danielle-droitsch/time-us-end-fossil-fuel-subsidies

If the US keeps burying its head in the sand and living in the past it will be left behind in future markets as it is out-developed by China and Europe.

China is going for coal big-time, all over the world. Mostly
unfiltered. Let them win that competition.

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/china-smog-03032016135155.html/china-smog-03032016.jpg/@@images/6b2c2e62-3043-444e-accc-a87227abb80d.jpeg

They are also going for solar power big-time. They recently duplicated Germany's trick of investing in a ten-fold larger production capacity than the rest of the world, and halved the unit price of solar cells in the process.

The world gets about 1% of it's energy from solar cells at the moment, so this is going to happen again, probably in China. When that happens they may be able to start throttling back on fossil carbon burning power generators, but a rapid increase on 1% of the energy sources isn't all that noticeable.

We work with a giant European tech outfit. It takes them 10x, 20x as
long to do something as we can.

But they may do it right, as opposed to barely adequately.

If I want to delay a program, I just
ask them a couple of simple questions. And wait. Fun.

It can take a while to sort out why a question that looks "simple" isn't as simple as the guy that posed the question thought.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 11:55:08 AM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 2:33:27 AM UTC-4, downunder wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 19:54:28 -0400, krw wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:39:13 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4 wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.

Funny thing is gas and diesel cars don't like cold. They get hard to start, can't heat the passengers until they are warmed up and require being warmed up to prevent damage to the drive train before driving at highway speeds. Jeeze, these ICE things are complicated to use. Makes you wonder why anyone wants them...

Hogwash! A well maintained, modern, gas car is trivial to start down
to -40ish. They were an issue with carburetors and coils but with
fuel injection and electronic ignition, they start quite easily. Even
diesels are relatively easy to start as long as the fuel doesn't gel
(again, a maintenance thing). Once started, either works just as well
as it does in warm weather.

At those temperatures, diesels can be problematic. Diesels are hard to
crank and the battery capacity falls rapidly. If you forgot to connect
the block heater in the evening, the car might not start in the
morning.

During the day, you nay gave to cover the hood with an old rug to
maintain some of the morning commute heat in the motor compartment.
Still you may have to drive a short trip during the lunch break to
keep the temperatures reasonable for the evening commute.

At temperatures down to -20 C, diesels behave quite well, but when
going down to -40 C, things get complicated.

E cars don't. Period.

In addition to battery issues,does e.g. power steering work from the
start or is the driver kept warm driving around without power
steering.

I spent a year where the average temperature was -40 during the winter. Each parking place had a 20A outlet for heaters. Lower heater hose, battery blanket and dipstick heaters. 20A was barely enough to keep the vehicle usable, and the engines were cool to the touch in minutes. You had to use cardboard to block the radiators, or the cold air would frees the coolant.

Buses and construction equipment was store in heated garages at the Motor Pool. It wasn't uncommon to have to tow a diesel vehicle to those garages when they stopped running due to the cold. Let them sit overnight, and they would fire right up.

The standard 90W gear oil had to be changed to 10W during the winter for the rear end, and manual transmissions. This was pre steel belted tire days, so the nylon cords would freeze with a flat spot on the bottom of your tires. It was called 'The land of the square tires', and they issued you a certificate for surviving a year there.

The official record low was -69F at the NWS site, over a heated building, the unofficial low was -79F, at an unheated test site.

I doubt that an EV would be worth a damn under these conditions. Heat pumps are useless at those temperatures, and I have doubts that the lubricants in the electric motors would be any good.

How much power would you need to even bring the interior up to zero, let alone anything comfortable? How many miles would you get on a full charge?

I expect you are right. I don't think Tesla has any plans to open dealerships in Antarctica either.

Or the Northern quarter of the US, I suppose?

 

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:06:00 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote in news:qf9ufm$n0f$1@dont-
email.me:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 17:25:20 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

We need to invent a car that runs on wood, or maple syrup.

Corn syrup more like.

No corn in Vermont.

Why not water?

Idiot. ...and AlwaysWrong.

 

[DLUNU]

krw@notreal.com wrote in news:h0sihe9ocfe8jt0sa2kqnr44bop8east8m@
4ax.com:

Why not water?

Idiot. ...and AlwaysWrong.

It was a cold fusion joke, you retarded piece of shit.
You still look like the idiot you are so nothing has changed.

 

[DLUNU]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
news:mb2ihe5uo8hlaukg2bmvcjbhttg9d8dpl6@4ax.com:

If an external PM opposes the local damping field, the disk could spin
faster!

More/most likely.