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By 'saturate' I guess you mean that the molecular alignment gets
locked and no longer follows the sine wave of the power signature.
I sure hope that's not what he means.
The metal resource needed to make all cars and vans electric by 2050
and all sales to be purely battery electric by 2035. To replace all
UK-based vehicles today with electric vehicles (not including the LGV
and HGV fleets), assuming they use the most resource-frugal
next-generation NMC 811 batteries, would take 207,900 tonnes cobalt,
264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate ...
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in news:1ca205ec-9276-49fb-bf30-
0cb88861870c@googlegroups.com:
People
can live without consuming petrochemicals.
Do you really think the infrastructure of any modern nation's cities
could do what you say? Food distribution logistics alone say you are
incorrect.
On Sunday, 30 June 2019 10:22:18 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...
This seems to assume no further technical developments. What about phosphate cathodes, other metal based chemistries such as sodium or potassium. How about super capacitors? All those reduce or eliminate cobalt.
Capacitors store an absurdly small amount of energy
Currently yes - but do you know any theoretical limits?
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 10:47:28 AM UTC-7, keith wright wrote:
On Sunday, 30 June 2019 10:22:18 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...
This seems to assume no further technical developments. What about phosphate cathodes, other metal based chemistries such as sodium or potassium. How about super capacitors? All those reduce or eliminate cobalt.
Capacitors store an absurdly small amount of energy
Currently yes - but do you know any theoretical limits?
Yes, the energy is stored in electric field, so the highest field short of insulator
breakdown is one limit. A second part of the storage equation, the dielectric constant,
must be chosen from solids or liquids, within the materials-property range.
A third limit (for vacuum capacitors) is in the forces on the electrodes: you have to
keep them separate with structure (usually metal) that doesn't store any energy
because it has no internal E-field.
Details vary, but chemical batteries definitely win on storage against capacitors.
krw@notreal.com wrote in news:h0sihe9ocfe8jt0sa2kqnr44bop8east8m@
4ax.com:
Why not water?
Idiot. ...and AlwaysWrong.
It was a cold fusion joke, you retarded piece of shit.
You still look like the idiot you are so nothing has changed.
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 9:23:57 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/06/19 13:30, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:30:48 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:08:07 -0700, Rick C wrote:
Cities like Washington, DC already have streets lined with parking
meters. They have more recently introduced kiosks where you pay for
anywhere on the block and put the receipt visible in the car, so a single
larger ugly thing rather than a number of smaller ugly things.
I'll bet few buyers have considered the implications if they live in a
conservation area where stuff like that would never get passed. Not sure if
you have those in America, but they're extremely common in the UK.
We have them, but people aren't anal about things like street lighting (is
that allowed in the conservation districts?) and other improvements to the
public areas. We tend to conserve the buildings, not the lifestyle.
They may or may not be extremely anal about changes;
it depends on the area, the changes and the local
authorities.
For example, a city near me states:
There are 33 conservation areas in Bristol. Conservation
areas have a special character and appearance and we aim
to preserve or enhance them. A conservation area might
have:
historic road patterns, plots and boundaries
characteristic building materials and construction techniques
historic building uses
green spaces
*trees and street furniture*
distinctive views
https://www.bristol.gov.uk/planning-and-building-regulations/conservation-areas
Note particularly the "trees and street furniture".
Do they allow autos? Seems like they should have been banned long ago when they were truly disgusting making noises, producing pollution and being a hazard to people and animals in the street. Oh, wait, they are still like that.
On 30/06/19 21:44, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 9:23:57 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/06/19 13:30, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:30:48 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:08:07 -0700, Rick C wrote:
Cities like Washington, DC already have streets lined with parking
meters. They have more recently introduced kiosks where you pay for
anywhere on the block and put the receipt visible in the car, so a single
larger ugly thing rather than a number of smaller ugly things.
I'll bet few buyers have considered the implications if they live in a
conservation area where stuff like that would never get passed. Not sure if
you have those in America, but they're extremely common in the UK.
We have them, but people aren't anal about things like street lighting (is
that allowed in the conservation districts?) and other improvements to the
public areas. We tend to conserve the buildings, not the lifestyle.
They may or may not be extremely anal about changes;
it depends on the area, the changes and the local
authorities.
For example, a city near me states:
There are 33 conservation areas in Bristol. Conservation
areas have a special character and appearance and we aim
to preserve or enhance them. A conservation area might
have:
historic road patterns, plots and boundaries
characteristic building materials and construction techniques
historic building uses
green spaces
*trees and street furniture*
distinctive views
https://www.bristol.gov.uk/planning-and-building-regulations/conservation-areas
Note particularly the "trees and street furniture".
Do they allow autos? Seems like they should have been banned long ago when they were truly disgusting making noises, producing pollution and being a hazard to people and animals in the street. Oh, wait, they are still like that.
Now you are being silly. And I am agreeing with Cursitor Doom!
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 12:47:58 AM UTC-7,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in news:1ca205ec-9276-49fb-bf30-
0cb88861870c@googlegroups.com:
People
can live without consuming petrochemicals.
Do you really think the infrastructure of any modern nation's
cities
could do what you say? Food distribution logistics alone say you
are incorrect.
This isn't about 'modern' it's about 'future'. Infrastructure can
change, because that is how the future is expected to evolve.
Not optimistic. We WILL 'evolve' into alternate propulsionPetrochemicals are a means to an end, NOT the only means to that
end. Optimistic, perhaps, but not incorrect.
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:06:38 +0000 (UTC), DLUNU
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@DLU.org> wrote:
krw@notreal.com wrote in news:h0sihe9ocfe8jt0sa2kqnr44bop8east8m@
4ax.com:
Why not water?
Idiot. ...and AlwaysWrong.
It was a cold fusion joke, you retarded piece of shit.
You still look like the idiot you are so nothing has changed.
AlwaysWrong, you're the joke.
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in news:1ca205ec-9276-49fb-bf30-
0cb88861870c@googlegroups.com:
People
can live without consuming petrochemicals.
... We WILL 'evolve' into alternate propulsion
technologies. But they have to be able to produce the kinds of
horsepower we currently use and we will still use what we have until
those new technologies are realized.
Horsepower was necessary to raise water from mines, but
transportation is NOT like that; on the level, wind power (sailing
ships) and critters (mule-towpath for a barge) move a lot of
tonnage without high energy consumption. Neither is 'new
technology'.
krw@notreal.com wrote in news:b1flhetv1raod1c8u92cns07ifhbukops5@
4ax.com:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:06:38 +0000 (UTC), DLUNU
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@DLU.org> wrote:
krw@notreal.com wrote in news:h0sihe9ocfe8jt0sa2kqnr44bop8east8m@
4ax.com:
Why not water?
Idiot. ...and AlwaysWrong.
It was a cold fusion joke, you retarded piece of shit.
You still look like the idiot you are so nothing has changed.
AlwaysWrong, you're the joke.
KRW just cannot stop posting retarded, hateful baby bullshit.
On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 5:07:46 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/06/19 21:44, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 9:23:57 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/06/19 13:30, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:30:48 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:08:07 -0700, Rick C wrote:
Cities like Washington, DC already have streets lined with parking
meters. They have more recently introduced kiosks where you pay for
anywhere on the block and put the receipt visible in the car, so a single
larger ugly thing rather than a number of smaller ugly things.
I'll bet few buyers have considered the implications if they live in a
conservation area where stuff like that would never get passed. Not sure if
you have those in America, but they're extremely common in the UK.
We have them, but people aren't anal about things like street lighting (is
that allowed in the conservation districts?) and other improvements to the
public areas. We tend to conserve the buildings, not the lifestyle.
They may or may not be extremely anal about changes;
it depends on the area, the changes and the local
authorities.
For example, a city near me states:
There are 33 conservation areas in Bristol. Conservation
areas have a special character and appearance and we aim
to preserve or enhance them. A conservation area might
have:
historic road patterns, plots and boundaries
characteristic building materials and construction techniques
historic building uses
green spaces
*trees and street furniture*
distinctive views
https://www.bristol.gov.uk/planning-and-building-regulations/conservation-areas
Note particularly the "trees and street furniture".
Do they allow autos? Seems like they should have been banned long ago when they were truly disgusting making noises, producing pollution and being a hazard to people and animals in the street. Oh, wait, they are still like that.
Now you are being silly. And I am agreeing with Cursitor Doom!
I charged at a gas station today and walked across the lot to a shopping center to have a bite. Walking in a gas station is much more dangerous than a shopping center. There is a lot higher density of traffic and when cars are turning into the station, they are still ramping down in speed and going too fast for the situation. I don't recall the name for this when people exit highways. In the gas station it is very similar.
Seeing on my phone the battery was about ready, I returned to the car some 45 minutes later (barely enough time to eat) where I was amazed by the heat and stink that was coming from the cars at the pumps and the ones waiting in line.
You can call me what you want, but the reality is ICE cars are smelly,
messy, heat producers that the world will be better off when rid of.
... I don't know what your neighborhood is like, but I am in the
boonies ...
On 03/07/19 00:39, Rick C wrote:
I charged at a gas station today and walked across the lot to a shopping center to have a bite. Walking in a gas station is much more dangerous than a shopping center. There is a lot higher density of traffic and when cars are turning into the station, they are still ramping down in speed and going too fast for the situation. I don't recall the name for this when people exit highways. In the gas station it is very similar.
And exactly how will that be different with EVs?
Seeing on my phone the battery was about ready, I returned to the car some 45 minutes later (barely enough time to eat) where I was amazed by the heat and stink that was coming from the cars at the pumps and the ones waiting in line.
There's no doubt about that! That merely makes alternatives
desirable, but doesn't affect the practical problems.
EVs tend to export their pollution generation to elsewhere.
You can call me what you want, but the reality is ICE cars are smelly,
messy, heat producers that the world will be better off when rid of.
Sure. The world would also be better off without hunger etc etc.
There is a lot higher density of traffic and when cars are turning
into the station, they are still ramping down in speed and going
too fast for the situation. I don't recall the name for this when
people exit highways. In the gas station it is very similar.
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
news:f822ace2-bbe4-47a0-a28e-40182095e257@googlegroups.com:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 12:47:58 AM UTC-7,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in news:1ca205ec-9276-49fb-bf30-
0cb88861870c@googlegroups.com:
People
can live without consuming petrochemicals.
Not likely any time soon. Other uses for the extracts too.
Remember plastic and that industry?
Do you really think the infrastructure of any modern nation's
cities could do what you say? Food distribution logistics alone say you
are incorrect.
This isn't about 'modern' it's about 'future'. Infrastructure can
change, because that is how the future is expected to evolve.
OK.... meanwhile, WE ALL STILL NEED food delivered to our stores
on a weekly basis. The world is a packed place and folks are not
farmers any more.
We do not have CNG locomotives yet,
What do you propose? That we put 25 long legged folks up on the
roof of the trailer and they push it like Fred Flintstone?
Like hard drives, IC engines are going to be with us quite a while
As we evolve. Sheesh.
Petrochemicals are a means to an end, NOT the only means to that
end. Optimistic, perhaps, but not incorrect.
Not optimistic. We WILL 'evolve' into alternate propulsion
technologies.
But they have to be able to produce the kinds of
horsepower we currently use and we will still use what we have until
those new technologies are realized.
50 10k Lb trailers cost more to pull than 13 40k Lb trailers cost.
So it needs to be able to tractor a 40,000 Lb trailer, just like we
currently do.
Capability is one issue, and capacity or range is another.
My city would have no trucks. Your system would be put in place.
Likely a network of smarter conveyors designed snag free. Slight
assist like an air hokey table flat bottom trays and optical
(datamatrix) routing coding..
All the 'passenger cars' would be small, slow, tiny footprint,
inner city, transit carriages. No high HP wasteful race cars
anywhere.
On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 1:15:05 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 03/07/19 00:39, Rick C wrote:
I charged at a gas station today and walked across the lot to a shopping center to have a bite. Walking in a gas station is much more dangerous than a shopping center. There is a lot higher density of traffic and when cars are turning into the station, they are still ramping down in speed and going too fast for the situation. I don't recall the name for this when people exit highways. In the gas station it is very similar.
And exactly how will that be different with EVs?
You know the answer to that as I've already talked about it. If we all used EVs rather than ICE, many would charge at home and never set foot in a charging station. Charging stations are easy to distribute in virtually every parking lot in existence rather than having special businesses to provide fuel. No more gas stations, no more hazardous, high usage parking lots.
Seeing on my phone the battery was about ready, I returned to the car some 45 minutes later (barely enough time to eat) where I was amazed by the heat and stink that was coming from the cars at the pumps and the ones waiting in line.
There's no doubt about that! That merely makes alternatives
desirable, but doesn't affect the practical problems.
EVs tend to export their pollution generation to elsewhere.
Yes, exactly. The pollution problem is shifted to electric generation which can come from a variety of sources which include totally non-polluting sources. Once we are using electricity rather than petroleum for propulsion, we can reduce or eliminate the pollution... our option.
You can call me what you want, but the reality is ICE cars are smelly,
messy, heat producers that the world will be better off when rid of.
Sure. The world would also be better off without hunger etc etc.
I guess you think you made some sort of meaningful point with that comment. Ok...
... I don't know what your neighborhood is like, but I am in the
boonies ...