Driver to drive?

[Rick C]

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:18 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

On 1/6/20 5:08 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 3:21:52 PM UTC-5, speff wrote:
On Sunday, 5 January 2020 12:45:19 UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
Or rather, I think the plan such as it is, is that for many people the
era of owning a personal automobile is coming to an end. From an
economic standpoint EVs have no future among the 50% of Americans with
per capita household incomes under 31k. The future for them is not
electric cars it's the bicycle.

The future is short range EVs. Since batteries are so expensive, 50 miles EVs are much cheaper to build. Even short range EVs are more than the long range bicycles (5 miles?) anyway.

I know someone with a short range EV. He spends a lot of time here complaining about the cost of charging because he can't bypass the expensive chargers on his longer trips.

No, there is little point in a car with only a 50 mile range. People will buy hybrids rather than such limited battery vehicles. I have driven more than 50 miles in a day with local driving.

Batteries are not cheap, but the cost will be dropping. There are a very few people who will buy such limited vehicles. But mainstream will want something a bit more practical, like 100 mile or 150 mile range. The Nissan Leaf shows such vehicles are not completely impractical until recently being the highest selling EV in the US. But that's all early adopters and neither the Leaf nor the Tesla model 3 accurately reflect what will be mainstream in 10 years as the wider public are buying EVs en masse. I don't really know what EV configuration will be the ultimate winner. I just know it will be an EV.

Meanwhile Bolt sales continue to drop. I'm a bit surprised. I test drove a Bolt and it's not a bad car... at all. With a 200 mile range it's at the top end of your limited range EV. The model 3 is just too much competition for it. That and GM just can't match Tesla in imagination. The Bolt is very much a Chevy and will always be one.


The Bolt is basically a Korean car with a US-made body.

Yep, that's the Chevy part.



"Both GM and Tesla hit the limits of federal tax credits in 2019. It
appears to have had little impact on Tesla, but put a drain on the Bolt.
The transition to the longer-range 2020 model might have been an issue
as well."

It's selling less because without the tax credits it's too expensive for
its target audience, people were driving off in them for like 28 grand
before. You could lease them for 1k down $249/month.

I don't think the Bolt is being hurt by the lack of tax credit any more than the Tesla. The bottom line is the Bolt is an ok car with nothing else going for it while the Tesla model 3 is a great car with a lot going for it including a nation wide charging network. Even if you never leave your hometown, you are much less likely to even consider buying an EV if you don't at least have the option of charging readily on trips. The several times I've gone in to talk to Chevy they still don't talk about charging other than a few canned sound bites. One sales man told me it could charge from 20% to 80% in 30 minutes or some time. But he couldn't tell me where it could do that. They only have a level 2 charger at the dealership. Your price is off too.

The average sale price of a Model 3 is like 45k. And a lease on even a
base trim Model 3 is something like 5k down and $450/month.

So you want to compare the base model Bolt to the "average" Tesla???

The Bolt and all of Teslas products are in two different market
segments. The expiration of the tax credit didn't really hurt the luxury
market segment but it did hurt the economy market segment. Sales of
economy cars are down across the board.

Not sure what market segment you are putting these cars into. Their price is the same. The Bolt is a SUV sort of shape while the 3 is a typical sedan. Surely you aren't suggesting the Bolt is an economy car!!!?

--

Rick C.

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:18:58 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

On 1/6/20 6:14 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 5:08 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 3:21:52 PM UTC-5, speff wrote:
On Sunday, 5 January 2020 12:45:19 UTC-5, Rick C  wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com
wrote:
Or rather, I think the plan such as it is, is that for many people
the
era of owning a personal automobile is coming to an end. From an
economic standpoint EVs have no future among the 50% of Americans
with
per capita household incomes under 31k. The future for them is not
electric cars it's the bicycle.

The future is short range EVs.  Since batteries are so expensive,
50 miles EVs are much cheaper to build.  Even short range EVs are
more than the long range bicycles (5 miles?) anyway.

I know someone with a short range EV.  He spends a lot of time here
complaining about the cost of charging because he can't bypass the
expensive chargers on his longer trips.

No, there is little point in a car with only a 50 mile range.
People will buy hybrids rather than such limited battery vehicles.
I have driven more than 50 miles in a day with local driving.

Batteries are not cheap, but the cost will be dropping.  There are a
very few people who will buy such limited vehicles.  But mainstream
will want something a bit more practical, like 100 mile or 150 mile
range.  The Nissan Leaf shows such vehicles are not completely
impractical until recently being the highest selling EV in the US.
But that's all early adopters and neither the Leaf nor the Tesla
model 3 accurately reflect what will be mainstream in 10 years as
the wider public are buying EVs en masse.  I don't really know what
EV configuration will be the ultimate winner.  I just know it will
be an EV.

Meanwhile Bolt sales continue to drop.  I'm a bit surprised.  I test
drove a Bolt and it's not a bad car... at all.  With a 200 mile
range it's at the top end of your limited range EV.  The model 3 is
just too much competition for it.  That and GM just can't match
Tesla in imagination.  The Bolt is very much a Chevy and will always
be one.


The Bolt is basically a Korean car with a US-made body.

Yep, that's the Chevy part.



"Both GM and Tesla hit the limits of federal tax credits in 2019. It
appears to have had little impact on Tesla, but put a drain on the Bolt..
The transition to the longer-range 2020 model might have been an issue
as well."

It's selling less because without the tax credits it's too expensive for
its target audience, people were driving off in them for like 28 grand
before. You could lease them for 1k down $249/month.

The average sale price of a Model 3 is like 45k. And a lease on even a
base trim Model 3 is something like 5k down and $450/month.

That is to say most buyers who were formerly interested in the Bolt
aren't making a decision between the Bolt and a Model 3 and saying "Ok I
should get a 3 instead" they're getting some other crossover, and most
buyers who get a Model 3 never looked at the Bolt.

I think many people who look at a Bolt end up buying the model 3. I distinctly got the impression that as soon as I indicated I was aware of the Tesla the Chevy salesperson lost interest in talking to me because they knew it was a lost battle. You may be well right in that people buy Teslas without looking at the Bolt, but not because of "market segments" but because they either had not really heard much about the Bolt if at all, or they already knew the Bolt was not selling because it was poor competition.

I debate with the Tesla fanbois in the forums and point out that the other car makers have been selling cars for a hundred years and know what people want. Tesla has been doing well for some time now ignoring the lessons learned by the many companies who have been bought up or just closed their doors. I am sure that at some point Tesla can't continue the way they are going now. But that time may still be a few years off and they may be selling a couple of million cars per year by then. So ultimately the Fanbois may be right.

--

Rick C.

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 1/6/20 7:09 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:18 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 5:08 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 3:21:52 PM UTC-5, speff wrote:
On Sunday, 5 January 2020 12:45:19 UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
Or rather, I think the plan such as it is, is that for many people the
era of owning a personal automobile is coming to an end. From an
economic standpoint EVs have no future among the 50% of Americans with
per capita household incomes under 31k. The future for them is not
electric cars it's the bicycle.

The future is short range EVs. Since batteries are so expensive, 50 miles EVs are much cheaper to build. Even short range EVs are more than the long range bicycles (5 miles?) anyway.

I know someone with a short range EV. He spends a lot of time here complaining about the cost of charging because he can't bypass the expensive chargers on his longer trips.

No, there is little point in a car with only a 50 mile range. People will buy hybrids rather than such limited battery vehicles. I have driven more than 50 miles in a day with local driving.

Batteries are not cheap, but the cost will be dropping. There are a very few people who will buy such limited vehicles. But mainstream will want something a bit more practical, like 100 mile or 150 mile range. The Nissan Leaf shows such vehicles are not completely impractical until recently being the highest selling EV in the US. But that's all early adopters and neither the Leaf nor the Tesla model 3 accurately reflect what will be mainstream in 10 years as the wider public are buying EVs en masse. I don't really know what EV configuration will be the ultimate winner. I just know it will be an EV.

Meanwhile Bolt sales continue to drop. I'm a bit surprised. I test drove a Bolt and it's not a bad car... at all. With a 200 mile range it's at the top end of your limited range EV. The model 3 is just too much competition for it. That and GM just can't match Tesla in imagination. The Bolt is very much a Chevy and will always be one.


The Bolt is basically a Korean car with a US-made body.

Yep, that's the Chevy part.



"Both GM and Tesla hit the limits of federal tax credits in 2019. It
appears to have had little impact on Tesla, but put a drain on the Bolt.
The transition to the longer-range 2020 model might have been an issue
as well."

It's selling less because without the tax credits it's too expensive for
its target audience, people were driving off in them for like 28 grand
before. You could lease them for 1k down $249/month.

I don't think the Bolt is being hurt by the lack of tax credit any more than the Tesla. The bottom line is the Bolt is an ok car with nothing else going for it while the Tesla model 3 is a great car with a lot going for it including a nation wide charging network. Even if you never leave your hometown, you are much less likely to even consider buying an EV if you don't at least have the option of charging readily on trips. The several times I've gone in to talk to Chevy they still don't talk about charging other than a few canned sound bites. One sales man told me it could charge from 20% to 80% in 30 minutes or some time. But he couldn't tell me where it could do that. They only have a level 2 charger at the dealership. Your price is off too.


The average sale price of a Model 3 is like 45k. And a lease on even a
base trim Model 3 is something like 5k down and $450/month.

So you want to compare the base model Bolt to the "average" Tesla???


The Bolt and all of Teslas products are in two different market
segments. The expiration of the tax credit didn't really hurt the luxury
market segment but it did hurt the economy market segment. Sales of
economy cars are down across the board.

Not sure what market segment you are putting these cars into. Their price is the same. The Bolt is a SUV sort of shape while the 3 is a typical sedan. Surely you aren't suggesting the Bolt is an economy car!!!?

Cheapest new Bolt configures for about 37k on the site, it could be as
low as 29k but the final price depends on how much "cash allowances" you
get. Most people won't pay 37k for it. Lease for between 240/mo with 4k
down and 315/month with 2k down. Finance for $400/month with no down
payment.


The cheapest Model 3 I can get from the configurator on their site is
$39,990. Lease is 400/month with $4500 down. Financing is $635/month no
down. No option to buy out the car at the end of a lease, either.

These vehicles are not in the same class. Not for the base trim and
definitely not if you start adding options to the Tesla. If you think
they are then u are some boomer who buys 100k rides in cash.

OK BOOMER?

<https://imgur.com/a/1FHg0Wm>

 

[bitrex]

On 1/6/20 7:54 PM, bitrex wrote:

The Bolt and all of Teslas products are in two different market
segments. The expiration of the tax credit didn't really hurt the luxury
market segment but it did hurt the economy market segment. Sales of
economy cars are down across the board.

Not sure what market segment you are putting these cars into.  Their
price is the same.  The Bolt is a SUV sort of shape while the 3 is a
typical sedan.  Surely you aren't suggesting the Bolt is an economy
car!!!?


Cheapest new Bolt configures for about 37k on the site, it could be as
low as 29k but the final price depends on how much "cash allowances" you
get. Most people won't pay 37k for it. Lease for between 240/mo with 4k
down and 315/month with 2k down. Finance for $400/month with no down
payment.

Lots of people lease their cars, and for many people who lease cars
because they can't afford to buy new the gulf between 240/mo with 4k
down and $400/month with 4.5k down with no option to buy out isn't
trivial it's huge.

Model 3 isn't picking off sales from the Bolt or Leaf or Camry or
whatever they're picking off BMW, Lexus, Infiniti and Mercedes.

<https://insideevs.com/news/335662/nearly-80-of-electric-cars-minus-tesla-are-leased-not-bought-in-us/>

Tesla drivers pay cash.

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 7:54:41 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

On 1/6/20 7:09 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:18 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 5:08 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 3:21:52 PM UTC-5, speff wrote:
On Sunday, 5 January 2020 12:45:19 UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
Or rather, I think the plan such as it is, is that for many people the
era of owning a personal automobile is coming to an end. From an
economic standpoint EVs have no future among the 50% of Americans with
per capita household incomes under 31k. The future for them is not
electric cars it's the bicycle.

The future is short range EVs. Since batteries are so expensive, 50 miles EVs are much cheaper to build. Even short range EVs are more than the long range bicycles (5 miles?) anyway.

I know someone with a short range EV. He spends a lot of time here complaining about the cost of charging because he can't bypass the expensive chargers on his longer trips.

No, there is little point in a car with only a 50 mile range. People will buy hybrids rather than such limited battery vehicles. I have driven more than 50 miles in a day with local driving.

Batteries are not cheap, but the cost will be dropping. There are a very few people who will buy such limited vehicles. But mainstream will want something a bit more practical, like 100 mile or 150 mile range. The Nissan Leaf shows such vehicles are not completely impractical until recently being the highest selling EV in the US. But that's all early adopters and neither the Leaf nor the Tesla model 3 accurately reflect what will be mainstream in 10 years as the wider public are buying EVs en masse. I don't really know what EV configuration will be the ultimate winner. I just know it will be an EV.

Meanwhile Bolt sales continue to drop. I'm a bit surprised. I test drove a Bolt and it's not a bad car... at all. With a 200 mile range it's at the top end of your limited range EV. The model 3 is just too much competition for it. That and GM just can't match Tesla in imagination. The Bolt is very much a Chevy and will always be one.


The Bolt is basically a Korean car with a US-made body.

Yep, that's the Chevy part.



"Both GM and Tesla hit the limits of federal tax credits in 2019. It
appears to have had little impact on Tesla, but put a drain on the Bolt.
The transition to the longer-range 2020 model might have been an issue
as well."

It's selling less because without the tax credits it's too expensive for
its target audience, people were driving off in them for like 28 grand
before. You could lease them for 1k down $249/month.

I don't think the Bolt is being hurt by the lack of tax credit any more than the Tesla. The bottom line is the Bolt is an ok car with nothing else going for it while the Tesla model 3 is a great car with a lot going for it including a nation wide charging network. Even if you never leave your hometown, you are much less likely to even consider buying an EV if you don't at least have the option of charging readily on trips. The several times I've gone in to talk to Chevy they still don't talk about charging other than a few canned sound bites. One sales man told me it could charge from 20% to 80% in 30 minutes or some time. But he couldn't tell me where it could do that. They only have a level 2 charger at the dealership. Your price is off too.


The average sale price of a Model 3 is like 45k. And a lease on even a
base trim Model 3 is something like 5k down and $450/month.

So you want to compare the base model Bolt to the "average" Tesla???


The Bolt and all of Teslas products are in two different market
segments. The expiration of the tax credit didn't really hurt the luxury
market segment but it did hurt the economy market segment. Sales of
economy cars are down across the board.

Not sure what market segment you are putting these cars into. Their price is the same. The Bolt is a SUV sort of shape while the 3 is a typical sedan. Surely you aren't suggesting the Bolt is an economy car!!!?


Cheapest new Bolt configures for about 37k on the site, it could be as
low as 29k but the final price depends on how much "cash allowances" you
get. Most people won't pay 37k for it. Lease for between 240/mo with 4k
down and 315/month with 2k down. Finance for $400/month with no down
payment.


The cheapest Model 3 I can get from the configurator on their site is
$39,990. Lease is 400/month with $4500 down. Financing is $635/month no
down. No option to buy out the car at the end of a lease, either.

These vehicles are not in the same class. Not for the base trim and
definitely not if you start adding options to the Tesla. If you think
they are then u are some boomer who buys 100k rides in cash.

OK BOOMER?

https://imgur.com/a/1FHg0Wm

LOL! You don't know diddly squat! You can buy a model 3 for $35,000 PERIOD. If you can't figure out how to do it, there is no point in further discussion. You might try doing a little googling.

You are such a trip.

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 1/6/20 8:17 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 7:54:41 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 7:09 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:18 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 5:08 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 3:21:52 PM UTC-5, speff wrote:
On Sunday, 5 January 2020 12:45:19 UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
Or rather, I think the plan such as it is, is that for many people the
era of owning a personal automobile is coming to an end. From an
economic standpoint EVs have no future among the 50% of Americans with
per capita household incomes under 31k. The future for them is not
electric cars it's the bicycle.

The future is short range EVs. Since batteries are so expensive, 50 miles EVs are much cheaper to build. Even short range EVs are more than the long range bicycles (5 miles?) anyway.

I know someone with a short range EV. He spends a lot of time here complaining about the cost of charging because he can't bypass the expensive chargers on his longer trips.

No, there is little point in a car with only a 50 mile range. People will buy hybrids rather than such limited battery vehicles. I have driven more than 50 miles in a day with local driving.

Batteries are not cheap, but the cost will be dropping. There are a very few people who will buy such limited vehicles. But mainstream will want something a bit more practical, like 100 mile or 150 mile range. The Nissan Leaf shows such vehicles are not completely impractical until recently being the highest selling EV in the US. But that's all early adopters and neither the Leaf nor the Tesla model 3 accurately reflect what will be mainstream in 10 years as the wider public are buying EVs en masse. I don't really know what EV configuration will be the ultimate winner. I just know it will be an EV.

Meanwhile Bolt sales continue to drop. I'm a bit surprised. I test drove a Bolt and it's not a bad car... at all. With a 200 mile range it's at the top end of your limited range EV. The model 3 is just too much competition for it. That and GM just can't match Tesla in imagination. The Bolt is very much a Chevy and will always be one.


The Bolt is basically a Korean car with a US-made body.

Yep, that's the Chevy part.



"Both GM and Tesla hit the limits of federal tax credits in 2019. It
appears to have had little impact on Tesla, but put a drain on the Bolt.
The transition to the longer-range 2020 model might have been an issue
as well."

It's selling less because without the tax credits it's too expensive for
its target audience, people were driving off in them for like 28 grand
before. You could lease them for 1k down $249/month.

I don't think the Bolt is being hurt by the lack of tax credit any more than the Tesla. The bottom line is the Bolt is an ok car with nothing else going for it while the Tesla model 3 is a great car with a lot going for it including a nation wide charging network. Even if you never leave your hometown, you are much less likely to even consider buying an EV if you don't at least have the option of charging readily on trips. The several times I've gone in to talk to Chevy they still don't talk about charging other than a few canned sound bites. One sales man told me it could charge from 20% to 80% in 30 minutes or some time. But he couldn't tell me where it could do that. They only have a level 2 charger at the dealership. Your price is off too.


The average sale price of a Model 3 is like 45k. And a lease on even a
base trim Model 3 is something like 5k down and $450/month.

So you want to compare the base model Bolt to the "average" Tesla???


The Bolt and all of Teslas products are in two different market
segments. The expiration of the tax credit didn't really hurt the luxury
market segment but it did hurt the economy market segment. Sales of
economy cars are down across the board.

Not sure what market segment you are putting these cars into. Their price is the same. The Bolt is a SUV sort of shape while the 3 is a typical sedan. Surely you aren't suggesting the Bolt is an economy car!!!?


Cheapest new Bolt configures for about 37k on the site, it could be as
low as 29k but the final price depends on how much "cash allowances" you
get. Most people won't pay 37k for it. Lease for between 240/mo with 4k
down and 315/month with 2k down. Finance for $400/month with no down
payment.


The cheapest Model 3 I can get from the configurator on their site is
$39,990. Lease is 400/month with $4500 down. Financing is $635/month no
down. No option to buy out the car at the end of a lease, either.

These vehicles are not in the same class. Not for the base trim and
definitely not if you start adding options to the Tesla. If you think
they are then u are some boomer who buys 100k rides in cash.

OK BOOMER?

https://imgur.com/a/1FHg0Wm

LOL! You don't know diddly squat! You can buy a model 3 for $35,000 PERIOD. If you can't figure out how to do it, there is no point in further discussion. You might try doing a little googling.

You are such a trip.

Ya I know about it it's hardly the point, the point is they hardly sell
any of them! Not even available on the website! They move diddly units
worth of that base-base trim. They move diddly units of it and all the
other trims and vehicles aren't remotely in the same market class.

That significant numbers of people are passing on the Bolt to pick up a
stripped-down Model 3 off the secret menu is absurd. They're passing on
the Bolt at the moment, sure, but that it's mostly due to Tesla seems
unlikely to be the reason.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 9:07:10 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 15:50:08 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

Your guess about how I might spend my time is a malicious speculation, and not the first you've come up with. You do come across as a nasty piece of work.

I can't accept that, Bill. I haven't said anything to warrant that
description.

Your social perceptions aren't up to much then, and it's very unlikely that giving you a detailed example would get through to you.

I reckon there's something else that's got your knickers
in a twist.

Of course you do. Psychopaths always find it hard to realise why other people find them obnoxious.

<snipped the usual nonsense>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Martin]

On 1/5/20 10:39 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote in
news:8fe744ab-5eef-461c-a608-15a6b81c0df6@googlegroups.com:

Folks have had success using a car battery for spot welding...Use
the
starter solenoid and a push button and heavy copper lugs for the
welding points.

You can also use battery packs itself to spot weld additional
one. Start with some spring mounted cells, than build it up.

I am testing my 2 Kw 18650 packs on my Leaf now. Went a little
farter

Gas powered, eh?

Sorry, no gas, went further than before.

You must have missed the joke. Look at your spelling.

So, I guess that would be a "Leaf Blower"

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 2:11:36 PM UTC-8, John Doe wrote:

I am neat, careful, and quick to avoid overheating when soldering. How
possible is it to solder a large lithium-ion battery without damaging or
degrading the battery? For connecting batteries together.

If you don't use welding, a solder joint to nickel (or nickel-plated)
battery terminals can be made with an overly hot iron, a bit of wire solder,
and an acid (HCl/H2SO4) flux. Once tinned, solder at normal solder
temperatures (but you wnat to get the surface wet FAST before
the battery takes damage, and a cool iron won't do it).

 

[Steve Wilson]

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 2:11:36 PM UTC-8, John Doe wrote:
I am neat, careful, and quick to avoid overheating when soldering. How
possible is it to solder a large lithium-ion battery without damaging
or degrading the battery? For connecting batteries together.

If you don't use welding, a solder joint to nickel (or nickel-plated)
battery terminals can be made with an overly hot iron, a bit of wire
solder, and an acid (HCl/H2SO4) flux. Once tinned, solder at normal
solder temperatures (but you wnat to get the surface wet FAST before
the battery takes damage, and a cool iron won't do it).

Spot welding is probably safer and more reliable. There are tons of
examples on Youtube and on the web:

CHEAP Spot Welder DIY (using simple tools) PLANS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q4oMVtW4FI

How To Make Mini Spot Welder Using old Microwave Transformer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qf559CgmK0

Battery Spot Welder (CD Welder) || DIY or Buy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TVNdMqVZpk

DIY Spot Welder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65I4Zx5VDKo

Making a simple Spot Welder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76tuG4ESJbA

DIY How to make a home use spot welder with a car battery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bxBGA0L8NQ

Making a Regulated Spot Welder for Batteries
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpYyEgpIo2k

DIY Arduino Spot Welder V3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNmvx2JSCvA

Testing out an Arduino SPOT WELDER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mnTABWSpo

DIY Spot Welding Machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTaGa93lOGU

DIY Arduino Spot Welder V3 Software Update
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_vmw5Daf0I

DIY Spot Welder, Attempt #2 with Microwave Transformer, Failed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU1f2HS0jLY

DIY Battery Spot Welder - Demonstration & Explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1NFbchHeM8

Making a spot welder from microwave oven
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdAichAdBVs

Spot Welding Machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdnTU10z4Xc

Malectrics Diy Arduino Spot Welder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReY7bz3tsMM

Make your own spot welder with foot pedal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqVYsqGJNMs

How to make a DIY Spot Welder free - 18650 spot welder- PART #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmss5t0idrs

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 8:27:05 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

On 1/6/20 8:17 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 7:54:41 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 7:09 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:18 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 5:08 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 3:21:52 PM UTC-5, speff wrote:
On Sunday, 5 January 2020 12:45:19 UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
Or rather, I think the plan such as it is, is that for many people the
era of owning a personal automobile is coming to an end. From an
economic standpoint EVs have no future among the 50% of Americans with
per capita household incomes under 31k. The future for them is not
electric cars it's the bicycle.

The future is short range EVs. Since batteries are so expensive, 50 miles EVs are much cheaper to build. Even short range EVs are more than the long range bicycles (5 miles?) anyway.

I know someone with a short range EV. He spends a lot of time here complaining about the cost of charging because he can't bypass the expensive chargers on his longer trips.

No, there is little point in a car with only a 50 mile range. People will buy hybrids rather than such limited battery vehicles. I have driven more than 50 miles in a day with local driving.

Batteries are not cheap, but the cost will be dropping. There are a very few people who will buy such limited vehicles. But mainstream will want something a bit more practical, like 100 mile or 150 mile range. The Nissan Leaf shows such vehicles are not completely impractical until recently being the highest selling EV in the US. But that's all early adopters and neither the Leaf nor the Tesla model 3 accurately reflect what will be mainstream in 10 years as the wider public are buying EVs en masse. I don't really know what EV configuration will be the ultimate winner. I just know it will be an EV.

Meanwhile Bolt sales continue to drop. I'm a bit surprised. I test drove a Bolt and it's not a bad car... at all. With a 200 mile range it's at the top end of your limited range EV. The model 3 is just too much competition for it. That and GM just can't match Tesla in imagination. The Bolt is very much a Chevy and will always be one.


The Bolt is basically a Korean car with a US-made body.

Yep, that's the Chevy part.



"Both GM and Tesla hit the limits of federal tax credits in 2019. It
appears to have had little impact on Tesla, but put a drain on the Bolt.
The transition to the longer-range 2020 model might have been an issue
as well."

It's selling less because without the tax credits it's too expensive for
its target audience, people were driving off in them for like 28 grand
before. You could lease them for 1k down $249/month.

I don't think the Bolt is being hurt by the lack of tax credit any more than the Tesla. The bottom line is the Bolt is an ok car with nothing else going for it while the Tesla model 3 is a great car with a lot going for it including a nation wide charging network. Even if you never leave your hometown, you are much less likely to even consider buying an EV if you don't at least have the option of charging readily on trips. The several times I've gone in to talk to Chevy they still don't talk about charging other than a few canned sound bites. One sales man told me it could charge from 20% to 80% in 30 minutes or some time. But he couldn't tell me where it could do that. They only have a level 2 charger at the dealership. Your price is off too.


The average sale price of a Model 3 is like 45k. And a lease on even a
base trim Model 3 is something like 5k down and $450/month.

So you want to compare the base model Bolt to the "average" Tesla???


The Bolt and all of Teslas products are in two different market
segments. The expiration of the tax credit didn't really hurt the luxury
market segment but it did hurt the economy market segment. Sales of
economy cars are down across the board.

Not sure what market segment you are putting these cars into. Their price is the same. The Bolt is a SUV sort of shape while the 3 is a typical sedan. Surely you aren't suggesting the Bolt is an economy car!!!?


Cheapest new Bolt configures for about 37k on the site, it could be as
low as 29k but the final price depends on how much "cash allowances" you
get. Most people won't pay 37k for it. Lease for between 240/mo with 4k
down and 315/month with 2k down. Finance for $400/month with no down
payment.


The cheapest Model 3 I can get from the configurator on their site is
$39,990. Lease is 400/month with $4500 down. Financing is $635/month no
down. No option to buy out the car at the end of a lease, either.

These vehicles are not in the same class. Not for the base trim and
definitely not if you start adding options to the Tesla. If you think
they are then u are some boomer who buys 100k rides in cash.

OK BOOMER?

https://imgur.com/a/1FHg0Wm

LOL! You don't know diddly squat! You can buy a model 3 for $35,000 PERIOD. If you can't figure out how to do it, there is no point in further discussion. You might try doing a little googling.

You are such a trip.


Ya I know about it it's hardly the point, the point is they hardly sell
any of them! Not even available on the website! They move diddly units
worth of that base-base trim. They move diddly units of it and all the
other trims and vehicles aren't remotely in the same market class.

That significant numbers of people are passing on the Bolt to pick up a
stripped-down Model 3 off the secret menu is absurd. They're passing on
the Bolt at the moment, sure, but that it's mostly due to Tesla seems
unlikely to be the reason.

So they were selling more Bolts until Tesla model 3 started shipping in volume and then the Bolt sales numbers dropped, but clearly it has nothing to do with the model 3. Ok, thanks for making that clear.

--

Rick C.

--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

So where are you getting 20700 batteries? Tesla makes 21700, are you buying used model 3 batteries?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 1:36:07 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

On 1/7/20 12:17 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 8:27:05 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 8:17 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 7:54:41 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 7:09 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:18 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/6/20 5:08 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 3:21:52 PM UTC-5, speff wrote:
On Sunday, 5 January 2020 12:45:19 UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-5, edward...@gmail..com wrote:
Or rather, I think the plan such as it is, is that for many people the
era of owning a personal automobile is coming to an end. From an
economic standpoint EVs have no future among the 50% of Americans with
per capita household incomes under 31k. The future for them is not
electric cars it's the bicycle.

The future is short range EVs. Since batteries are so expensive, 50 miles EVs are much cheaper to build. Even short range EVs are more than the long range bicycles (5 miles?) anyway.

I know someone with a short range EV. He spends a lot of time here complaining about the cost of charging because he can't bypass the expensive chargers on his longer trips.

No, there is little point in a car with only a 50 mile range. People will buy hybrids rather than such limited battery vehicles. I have driven more than 50 miles in a day with local driving.

Batteries are not cheap, but the cost will be dropping. There are a very few people who will buy such limited vehicles. But mainstream will want something a bit more practical, like 100 mile or 150 mile range. The Nissan Leaf shows such vehicles are not completely impractical until recently being the highest selling EV in the US. But that's all early adopters and neither the Leaf nor the Tesla model 3 accurately reflect what will be mainstream in 10 years as the wider public are buying EVs en masse. I don't really know what EV configuration will be the ultimate winner. I just know it will be an EV.

Meanwhile Bolt sales continue to drop. I'm a bit surprised. I test drove a Bolt and it's not a bad car... at all. With a 200 mile range it's at the top end of your limited range EV. The model 3 is just too much competition for it. That and GM just can't match Tesla in imagination. The Bolt is very much a Chevy and will always be one.


The Bolt is basically a Korean car with a US-made body.

Yep, that's the Chevy part.



"Both GM and Tesla hit the limits of federal tax credits in 2019. It
appears to have had little impact on Tesla, but put a drain on the Bolt.
The transition to the longer-range 2020 model might have been an issue
as well."

It's selling less because without the tax credits it's too expensive for
its target audience, people were driving off in them for like 28 grand
before. You could lease them for 1k down $249/month.

I don't think the Bolt is being hurt by the lack of tax credit any more than the Tesla. The bottom line is the Bolt is an ok car with nothing else going for it while the Tesla model 3 is a great car with a lot going for it including a nation wide charging network. Even if you never leave your hometown, you are much less likely to even consider buying an EV if you don't at least have the option of charging readily on trips. The several times I've gone in to talk to Chevy they still don't talk about charging other than a few canned sound bites. One sales man told me it could charge from 20% to 80% in 30 minutes or some time. But he couldn't tell me where it could do that. They only have a level 2 charger at the dealership. Your price is off too.


The average sale price of a Model 3 is like 45k. And a lease on even a
base trim Model 3 is something like 5k down and $450/month.

So you want to compare the base model Bolt to the "average" Tesla???


The Bolt and all of Teslas products are in two different market
segments. The expiration of the tax credit didn't really hurt the luxury
market segment but it did hurt the economy market segment. Sales of
economy cars are down across the board.

Not sure what market segment you are putting these cars into. Their price is the same. The Bolt is a SUV sort of shape while the 3 is a typical sedan. Surely you aren't suggesting the Bolt is an economy car!!!?


Cheapest new Bolt configures for about 37k on the site, it could be as
low as 29k but the final price depends on how much "cash allowances" you
get. Most people won't pay 37k for it. Lease for between 240/mo with 4k
down and 315/month with 2k down. Finance for $400/month with no down
payment.


The cheapest Model 3 I can get from the configurator on their site is
$39,990. Lease is 400/month with $4500 down. Financing is $635/month no
down. No option to buy out the car at the end of a lease, either.

These vehicles are not in the same class. Not for the base trim and
definitely not if you start adding options to the Tesla. If you think
they are then u are some boomer who buys 100k rides in cash.

OK BOOMER?

https://imgur.com/a/1FHg0Wm

LOL! You don't know diddly squat! You can buy a model 3 for $35,000 PERIOD. If you can't figure out how to do it, there is no point in further discussion. You might try doing a little googling.

You are such a trip.


Ya I know about it it's hardly the point, the point is they hardly sell
any of them! Not even available on the website! They move diddly units
worth of that base-base trim. They move diddly units of it and all the
other trims and vehicles aren't remotely in the same market class.

That significant numbers of people are passing on the Bolt to pick up a
stripped-down Model 3 off the secret menu is absurd. They're passing on
the Bolt at the moment, sure, but that it's mostly due to Tesla seems
unlikely to be the reason.

So they were selling more Bolts until Tesla model 3 started shipping in volume and then the Bolt sales numbers dropped, but clearly it has nothing to do with the model 3. Ok, thanks for making that clear.


GM hit the 200k tax credit limit in Q4 2018, it fell to half the
original 7500 in early 2019, and it fell to $1875 in October of 2019,
the Model 3 started shipping in large volume also approximately Q3 2018.

I think the big issue is the tax credit and the timing of the 3's
release is coincidental I doubt Musk even think about the Bolt at all
and most 3 owners never thought about it either.

Not really the same issue is it?

--

Rick C.

-+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 1/7/20 1:36 AM, bitrex wrote:

Ya I know about it it's hardly the point, the point is they hardly sell
any of them! Not even available on the website! They move diddly units
worth of that base-base trim. They move diddly units of it and all the
other trims and vehicles aren't remotely in the same market class.

That significant numbers of people are passing on the Bolt to pick up a
stripped-down Model 3 off the secret menu is absurd. They're passing on
the Bolt at the moment, sure, but that it's mostly due to Tesla seems
unlikely to be the reason.

So they were selling more Bolts until Tesla model 3 started shipping
in volume and then the Bolt sales numbers dropped, but clearly it has
nothing to do with the model 3.  Ok, thanks for making that clear. 


GM hit the 200k tax credit limit in Q4 2018, it fell to half the
original 7500 in early 2019, and it fell to $1875 in October of 2019,
the Model 3 started shipping in large volume also approximately Q3 2018.

I think the big issue is the tax credit and the timing of the 3's
release is coincidental I doubt Musk even think about the Bolt at all
and most 3 owners never thought about it either.

People who've been buying the splurge of Model 3s are mostly middle-age
dudes who've been sitting around for several years waiting to buy their
dream car and be an official part of the Tesla club. they're mostly not
like "Hmmm what shall I buy?"-people.

As one former Volt owner on the forums described the experience of
trading his Volt for a Tesla 3 he said "My self-esteem felt a lot worse
and I felt like way less of a man when I only had a Chevy product and
didn't have a Tesla product and I was parked next to someone with a Tesla."

 

> So, I guess that would be a "Leaf Blower"

Yes, that's the secret plan: SRB motors on my Leaf Blower. Wondering if I need a permit to test at Edward's AFB.

 

[bitrex]

On 1/7/20 1:39 AM, Rick C wrote:

GM hit the 200k tax credit limit in Q4 2018, it fell to half the
original 7500 in early 2019, and it fell to $1875 in October of 2019,
the Model 3 started shipping in large volume also approximately Q3 2018.

I think the big issue is the tax credit and the timing of the 3's
release is coincidental I doubt Musk even think about the Bolt at all
and most 3 owners never thought about it either.

Not really the same issue is it?

I told you the big picture overview my dude. US sales of luxury sedan
EVs, luxury electric SUVs, high-end ICE pickups and maybe electric
trucks and electric sports cars, and ICE luxury cars/sports cars are
going to continue along steady or rise, from whatever manufacturer Tesla
included.

Camry sales are down. Civic sales are down. Accord sales are down. Bolt
sales are down. Sales of every other type of lower-cost EV on the US
market, such as they are, is down. Sales of all other classes of vehicle
other than those mentioned above are going to go down. And go down. And
go down for the foreseeable future.

The introduction of the EV signals the end of the auto industry as we
have known it, yes I think so. That doesn't at all mean everybody's
gonna get an electric car or have any car at all. The Volt and Bolt and
Leaf were the first affordable long-range high-performance
electric/hybrid vehicles and I think there's a good chance they will be
the last, too.

 

[o pere o]

On 12/23/19 2:27 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

We've all marvelled from time to time as to how the Chinese can sell
their stuff so incredibly cheap to us here in the West. Here's one
possible explanation:

https://tinyurl.com/t8m5zjh

Pop-up with privacy policy of news.sky.com:

-> You may visit a link that shows up as "please visit our privacy and
cookie notice". It points to a valid url that just informs you on how
they track you.

-> You may NOT visit a link that shows up as "You can select how your
data is used in privacy options". The url it points to is just
javascript:void(0)

Further sarcasm: "You can easily change your settings anytime". If I
can't do it the first time...

Bye, sky

Pere

 

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:d56700e2-110f-4de8-b5a6-e09cad343a91@googlegroups.com:

On Tuesday, December 31, 2019 at 9:46:30 AM UTC-5,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:d55b77a5-8fec-4aa8-86a3-9b9a6580a000@googlegroups.com:

https://conservativefighters.org/news/a-massive-wind-turbine-co
lla
pses-in-new-york-city-smashing-car-and-destroying-billboard/


Nice try, Trumpanzee retard. Do you also think they cause
cancer?

BTW, that is a teeny tiny privately owned unit, not the ones
the
pissy little bitch named Donald J. Trump whines about.

It was not teeny tiny.

Sure it is... was.

> Who owns it is irrelevant.

You do not know much about how those bastards operate up there, eh?

And being in
a very urban setting, with people living and working nearby is
exactly the kind of setting that Trump whines about.

Nope. He whined about his golf course and a wind farm that went up
over half a mile offshore. And since then, he has whined about them
because he is climate change oblivious.

He whines
about them lowering property values when one is put up in your
neighborhood.

Yet they do no such thing, and certainly not the 65% or whatever
number the total retard blurts out.

And it was probably pissy little TrumpBitch money that paid for
some
Trumpanzee retard to cause it to collapse.

Obvious TDS here.

Except it doe not exist except in the minds of Kentucky retard
McConnell brained dumbfucks.

Nice try, Tea Party throwback Trumpanzee sheep, Republican
party
interloper dumbfuck.

This would be a good time to tell everyone again that you're a
Republican.

I am, despite the infiltration of total retards and criminal NYC
landlord shysters it is currently sufferning through.

> It's your party that picked Trump,

You are like a fucking drone. A snipe. Snipers shoot snipes.

> that enables him,

I enabled no one. And decidely my remarks regarding him and the
party proves that 100%. Nice try though, retarded putz!

> that lies for him,

I have never lied for him. Many interlopers in my party have,
however. We will cull them too.

that keeps him in power and that is running him
for a second term.

No, they are not. They are playing him and will BLAME HIM and then
abandon him like a freshly laid turd pretty soon. Watch.

Head off and die, you pathetic little putz.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:52:23 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

>Of course you do. Psychopaths always find it hard to realise why other people find them obnoxious.

Well, I've had you down for a few things on this group, Bill, but I
never had you down for a snowflake. Dishing out all that supercilious
condescension and yet you can't take a little polite criticism in
return. Fancy having to tip-toe around the senstitivies you've never
shown before. Hmmm. Nope. I don't buy it.

--

"The BEST Deal is NO DEAL"

 

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:bbf1e408-237b-4243-
94d4-ae6ba4b83164@googlegroups.com:

Well, that helps explain what we see here from you.

Fuck you, retarded Jersey boy PUSSY!