Cost of a Traffic Signal ??

[Rich Grise]

Lessee ... Asked him twice, he refused, and the stupid airhead
gets in the car with the moron anyway?

Two for the price of one!

Cheers!
Rich

Mark Jones wrote:

Indeed, that is so true, like when you hear about a carful of teenagers out
partying and they drive off the road. So okay, the driver is a dipshit. But
his 16-year old girlfriend asked him twice to hand over the keys, and he
wouldn't... so sometimes you just have to take a stand.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:02:59 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
<spamdump@nowhere.at.all> wrote:

Speaking of Darwin, here's a solution to the stupid driver problem:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rich_grise/images/SafeCar.gif

I like it! Put some spikes attached to a weight behind his seat while
you're at it so he won't want to slam on his brakes too fast..

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Rich Grise]

Jim Thompson wrote:

Accident scenario:

(1) Blind approach from the west.

(2) Car ahead of victim pulled out to swing across intersection, no
opposing cars in view.

(3) Victim's car follows first car.

There's your answer.

Stupidity in action.

(4) First car, once out there in dead-man's zone sees car approaching
from west and stops straddling median.

(5) Victim is trapped straddling a traffic lane.

Victim, no. Negligent stupid person, yes.

(6) Car from *east* T-bones victim.

The whole issue (to me) is lack of visibility to the west... i.e. a
poorly conceived uncontrolled intersection.

No, it's lack of safe driving skill, or just plain stupidity.
And maybe a little arrogance.

Throw a little chlorine in the gene pool!

U-turn? Next available turn-around is *two miles* to the west
(roadway is divided by a median).

...Jim Thompson
Cheers!

Rich

 

[Tim Auton]

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:02:59 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
spamdump@nowhere.at.all> wrote:
Speaking of Darwin, here's a solution to the stupid driver problem:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rich_grise/images/SafeCar.gif

I like it! Put some spikes attached to a weight behind his seat while
you're at it so he won't want to slam on his brakes too fast..

The kind of people who think other people brake too fast are the kind
of people who drive too close to the car in front...


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:21:08 GMT, Rich Grise <spamdump@nowhere.at.all>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Accident scenario:

(1) Blind approach from the west.

(2) Car ahead of victim pulled out to swing across intersection, no
opposing cars in view.

(3) Victim's car follows first car.

There's your answer.

Stupidity in action.


(4) First car, once out there in dead-man's zone sees car approaching
from west and stops straddling median.

(5) Victim is trapped straddling a traffic lane.

Victim, no. Negligent stupid person, yes.


(6) Car from *east* T-bones victim.

The whole issue (to me) is lack of visibility to the west... i.e. a
poorly conceived uncontrolled intersection.

No, it's lack of safe driving skill, or just plain stupidity.
And maybe a little arrogance.

Throw a little chlorine in the gene pool!

U-turn? Next available turn-around is *two miles* to the west
(roadway is divided by a median).

...Jim Thompson
Cheers!
Rich

Certainly bad judgement. But I consider myself an *expert* driver
(want to test me ?) and I find trying to watch two high speed
directions with one of them blind beyond a hundred yards very
disturbing.

If I applied the rules of the gene pool only a few of you would be
remaining ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:26:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

I have a "T" intersection near my house.

The "cross" of the "T" has right-of-way with a speed limit of 55, but
usual speeds are 70:

E<--------------->W (Pecos Road)
|<>-(stop sign)
|
| (Desert Foothills)

View to the west is blind due to a slightly rising hill.

Traffic density on Pecos has recently increased dramatically due to a
new freeway section opening several miles to the east.

I have been harping at the city to do something about this unsafe
intersection but was told basically "tough, you're not getting a
traffic light anytime soon and they don't put stop signs on feeders",
but he'd grace my complaint by repainting the white front-edge stripe
(done last Tuesday or Wednesday) and would trim the trees to the west.

Friday night a woman died in an accident there when she was T-boned
trying to get onto Pecos eastbound from Desert Foothills.

My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic
light?

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

...Jim Thompson

Back when I lived in Louisiana (a great place to be *from*, as they
say) I used to keep track of chronic highway death traps and figure
how much money the state would have to spend to save lives, ie, how
much a human life was worth to them. The number was rather
consistantly in the $3000-per-life range.

Here in Ca, it's amazing that most mountain and coast cliff roads
don't have guard rails. I guess they just block the views.

John

 

[Genome]

"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
newsulusvsoa3rjkim649lkj106eejp7sk3go@4ax.com...

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:47:57 -0000, "Genome" <genome@nothere.com> Gave
us:


"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in
message
news:7jatsvs3n09bajhcsqtq91stlv02stt5ru@4ax.com...

You starred in that movie.. "Total Retard" I KNOW IT!

And I got to shag all the girlies as well. What the fuck are you doing in
my
hangover?

You obviously didn't see that I said RETARD, not recall.

Err, no.......

You offered a scenario, I gave it meaning.

You're an interesting thing. You seem to define yourself according to other
things definitions about what you think you might be.

If the sum of your wealth of their experience comes down to one word,
retard, then I don't think your elephants would be overly impressed.

I'm a wanker

DNA

 

[Genome]

Give me three tits
Give me three tits Mr
Give me three tits towards the door

Give me three tits
Give me three tits Mr

And you'll never see me no more.

 

[Aubrey McIntosh]

Jim Thompson <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:<jgvrsvshu9qiii15rtvlo03volum8setvp@4ax.com>...

My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic
light?

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

My condolences to the family.

Go to the Thomas register, find some mfrs (Eagle Signal Control in
Baraboo Wisconsin, offices in Austin Tx?) and get a formal quote. If
they need a city official, send private email and I'll approach one.

In 1994, I sued the city and county of Denver in federal court for
wrongful death regarding my daughter.

There are difficulties in sueing a government agency. There may be a
difficulty in getting them to accept liability. However, I did find a
case in the record when we wrote up the appeal (pro se, and which we
won) that has some elements of similarity.

In that case, a governmental entity (perhaps the state of Wisconson or
Illinois) was sued for negligence (as in this case, a more difficult
thing than *action* that is wrong) for failing to put up a sign in a
park (I forget if it was state or county park) on a trail that lead
along a cliff (similar to failing to put up a traffic signal at an
increasingly dangerous intersection). A woman out (perhaps at night)
fell and died.

I don't have the file handy, and for various personal reasons I'm
either not going to read it, or else will read it, get maudlin, make
genome look cheerful, and have no judgement for a few days ... either
way not leading to a useful post. If it matters still in a week ask
privately. It is on my to do list to produce a CD of all the court
cases and such that we have in the file, and have our little non
profit sell them to help in just this type of circumstance.

In any event I know that the referenced case was lost in the court and
went to appeal, since I was only reading appeal cases. Probably the
appeal was successful because I wanted citations that supported our
view.

If the family sues, they simply must have a tremendous amount of
financial depth to stay with the matter through appeal. They must
have a great deal of emotional strength to go the distance. And they
should have reasonable answers to two important questions: 1) What if
you lose, 2) What if you win.

There will be some effort, the ripples of which are beginning to
surface in the postings already, to "blame the victim." Assholes.
What if it were your daughter?

(I just have to jab. As a Republican and proud conservative, you of
course know how evil it is for those lazy whiney commies to sue. At
least here in Texas Geo. W. has advocated tort reform, so our stocks
and institutions are safe. Go Enron! $ $ )

All of this suti advice is, however, irrelevant and misguided. I'm
now 11 years post mortem. I have perspective and experience that I
did not have then. I finished a Ph.D. following the shooting, some
measure of grit. I have talked to many survivors, such as Polly
Klass's father. I have talked to many lesser known individuals who
are survivors. I have appeared 3 times on Jenny Jones and talked in
the green room with others on the show.

Generally, they (we) fall into classes along each of several
dimensions: 1) go forward or live forever in the death day, 2) go for
personal vengence or societal safety, 3) become excessively fearful or
excessively bold, 4) talk only about the decedent, or never talk about
the decedent.

I am a forward, safety, bold, talkative, but you have all already
surmised that whenever you Googled to see just who I am.

I don't care about helping people be not decent, and I presume that
people with my profile are decent. So ... I would let the family
grieve. Talk to them like they are still real people -- that is
important to them. Don't flinch if you see the conversation heading
'there' again, but don't steer it any more than you would on any other
topic. In time, they will ask the "why" question that is difficult
and not answerable. In time, they will ask "what now" and you might
suggest making things so that no one else's mother/daughter/wife will
die. They may embrace that, but it conflicts strongly with the
lawsuit (my personal but experienced based opinion.) If they accept
that mission then they will be in a small but loyal club, that none of
the members wanted to join.

Then the future unfolds.

Make it an election issue. If the city council has people who won't
back safety, replace them. Run yourself. That message spreads pretty
quickly.

Are people speeding? Well? This is an electronics design group. In
my own response, I am working, perhaps aimlessly, on a "wireless,
internet connected gunshot logger and locator" which ultimately is a
unit that sits on a light pole, or by the road, and listens to sound.
Has ntp time synchronization.

Such a unit could presumably be caused to evaluate doppler shift,
determine speed, trigger a web-cam. Just put the pictures up at all
the grocery stores.

Don't just sue, it is empty and hollow. Cause change. The woman is
dead. Cash isn't enough. Extract a worthy value for that death.

And my power supply question on nmos singing is related to this
project. I have worked hours with AoE, read all the past year's posts
about resitors on the gate, and am stuck. Give me a real answer.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 01:37:17 -0000, "Genome" <genome@nothere.com> Gave
us:

I'm a wanker

No. You are the wanked.

 

[Mark Jones]

In news:3fcf702f$0$14038$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk (Fred):

"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:jgvrsvshu9qiii15rtvlo03volum8setvp@4ax.com...
I have a "T" intersection near my house.

The "cross" of the "T" has right-of-way with a speed limit of 55, but
usual speeds are 70:

E<--------------->W (Pecos Road)
|<>-(stop sign)
|
| (Desert Foothills)

View to the west is blind due to a slightly rising hill.

Traffic density on Pecos has recently increased dramatically due to a
new freeway section opening several miles to the east.

I have been harping at the city to do something about this unsafe
intersection but was told basically "tough, you're not getting a
traffic light anytime soon and they don't put stop signs on feeders",
but he'd grace my complaint by repainting the white front-edge stripe
(done last Tuesday or Wednesday) and would trim the trees to the west.

Friday night a woman died in an accident there when she was T-boned
trying to get onto Pecos eastbound from Desert Foothills.

My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic
light?

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

...Jim Thompson
--
I remember hearing statistics which implied that traffic lights
contributed significantly to road deaths. Usually through inattention
or even color blindness traffic lights are often jumped with dire
consequences since both think they have right of way. While side
junctions may appear dangerous, it this perception of danger which
saves lives. The fact that this lady was T-boned suggests she didn't
look or she crossed the road at a snails pace. One other solution you
might find the city makes is to make the junction a right turn only
forcing you to make a U turn or similar in a safer place.

Just a few years ago, my entire residential neighborhood had stop and yield
signs installed at every intersection. In a RESIDENTIAL zone... so now,
whenever driving in a new place that doesn't have the obvious "idiot signs,"
you don't instinctively think to stop, you have to cognitively assess the
danger of entering the intersection. This takes effort... and most people
are lazy. If we would have never started putting these signs up, then this
(new) problem would not exist. Funny how that works... now about the lazy
part...

 

[the Wiz]

Jim Thompson <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
<snip>

I have been harping at the city to do something about this unsafe
intersection but was told basically "tough, you're not getting a
traffic light anytime soon and they don't put stop signs on feeders",
but he'd grace my complaint by repainting the white front-edge stripe
(done last Tuesday or Wednesday) and would trim the trees to the west.

Friday night a woman died in an accident there when she was T-boned
trying to get onto Pecos eastbound from Desert Foothills.

My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic
light?

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

...Jim Thompson

In one city I lived in, the usual cost of a traffic signal that they had not
planned for was the lives of two adults or one child, with pedestrian deaths
carrying more weight than driver/passenger deaths.
City engineer: "That intersection doesn't need a light."
Newspaper front page: "An eight year old was killed crossing the street to the
grocery store yesterday."
City engineer: "We'll have the light in three weeks."

Deaths at an intersection that people have notified the responsible governmental
agency about usually get results - especiall;y with media coverage or in an
election year.

The cost of the signal depends on
1. whether it's stand-alone or tied in with other signals
2. whether it's timed or tripped by vehicle presence
3. whether it has time-of-day cycle awareness or always does the same "1 minute
E-W, 2 minutes N-S" cycle
4. whether there are left turn lights
5. how many overhead/pole-mounted light heads there are
6. whether AC power is available or must be run in
7. whether the signal controller (most are probably microprocessor based) has
backup power to keep the date/time if the signal has time/day sensitivity
8. the cost of the vehicle sensors (if provided)
9. the mechanical and electrical installation costs
10. things I haven't thought of
$100K doesn't sound unreasonable for a T-intersection tripped signal with left
turn lights.

The city of Atlanta has some incredibly expensive traffic signal installations
in the downtown area, but they can all be controlled rom a central computer
system - especially good for turning the proper combination of lights green/red
when there's a fire, so the fire equipment has green lights all the way from the
station to the fire scene.

More about me: http://www.jecarter.com/
VB3/VB6/C/PowerBasic source code: http://www.jecarter.com/programs.html
Freeware for the Palm with NS Basic source code: http://nsb.jecarter.com
Drivers for Pablo graphics tablet and JamCam cameras: http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbt/
johnecarter at@at mindspring dot.dot com. Fix the obvious to reply by email.

 

[Mark Fergerson]

DarkMatter wrote:

<snip>

I have been riding a bike for over ten years, and I can bet you that
I can stand at ANY moderately busy intersection ANYWHERE, or on any
overpass, and see violations of law, and common sense inside of a few
minutes. From minor to totally fucking retarded. Like a retard with
an old model mercedes, up on a FWD platform placing the floor pan at
around 3 to 4 feet from the ground. The idiot bastard can't even see
where he is going, and they retards in power out here let these stupid
fucks drive around in these retarded pieces of shit. Oh that's
right... THEY are retarded pieces of shit as well. Shit always melds
together well. I only wish the fucker would meld into a light pole
with a slight upward pitch at 60MPH, dropping to zero in 0.02 seconds.
No air bag in that beast. He'd probably land about 70 feet out, and
roll another 20 or 30. Some of you fuckers should never be allowed to
drive, you are so fucking retarded.

I've been riding a bike (why is it one "drives" a car by
making minimal hand and foot motions, while one "rides" a
bike by exerting one's whole body?) for much longer. Assume
that _everyone_ is actively trying to kill you. If you ride
through a place like Sun City (monster retirement
"community") assume the extra added spice of failing vision
and reflexes on the part of drivers.

Cover your own ass; the cops won't do it for you.

At least in Colorado, they have brains enough to outlaw these fucking
modified retard mobiles from the fucking public roads. You want to
build and play with a toy, go do it on other grounds, not our public
roadways. San Diego is retarded. Street racing kills tens of people
a year out here, and the idiots don't know that the way to crack down
on it is to crack down on ALL of the stupid driving. The problem is
that most of the cops don't know how to drive safely either!

One of the things I like about Arizona is exemplified by
the time the State Legislature tried to ban all aftermarket
modifications to motor vehicles. The Legislature was
_surrounded_ by both lowriders and highriders (mini-monster
trucks, basically) and decided it would blow it off. How
often do you see Chicanos and Rednecks united?

I agree that permanent open season ought to be declared
on street racers.

<snip>

Come on, boys (JUDGES AND COPS AND PROSECUTORS), get with it! You
al want revenues? START CHARGING the retarded drivers out there when
they drive like idiots, and quit wasting tax dollars on your special,
coffee and doughnuts war on drugs. DO YOUR FUCKING JOB, which is
public safety and that LARGELY TRAFFIC LAW ENFORCEMENT.

No, revenue collection is their tree-of-life. Fines can
be collected in perpetuity if you don't take licenses (or
cars) away from bad drivers. Voters reproduce, and
legislators etc. just don't give a fuck how many die as long
as we live long enough to vote for them at least once. The
WOD is a money mine; don't expect it to go away anytime soon.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:53:55 -0700, Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness>
Gave us:

I've been riding a bike (why is it one "drives" a car by
making minimal hand and foot motions, while one "rides" a
bike by exerting one's whole body?) for much longer. Assume
that _everyone_ is actively trying to kill you. If you ride
through a place like Sun City (monster retirement
"community") assume the extra added spice of failing vision
and reflexes on the part of drivers.

Cover your own ass; the cops won't do it for you.

Look, you fucking retard...The RIGHT OF WAY on a road is to the
vehicle (driver) in front of you. If your lame ass intends to pass
said vehicle, the responsibility to do so safely is YOURS, the
rearward approaching vehicle. Dig?

You stupid bastards that think it is OK to just SLEEZE by should be
summarily fucking shot for utter stupidity.

I NEVER see a driver of ANY vehicle surpass a bike cop in an
improper way, why the fuck do you retarded bastards do it when it is
not a bike cop?

You're retarded if you do not imagine a 3 foot barrier to the LEFT
of the cyclist, and stay the fuck to the left of that barrier!

Think of it like "he might open his door". You retarded fucks drive
past parked cars with a bigger margin than a moving cyclist.

If this were the wild west, it would be you retarded bastards
needing to cover your ass, after passing me so close, 'cause I'm gonna
ram a hunk of lead up it.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Rich Grise wrote:

Speaking of Darwin, here's a solution to the stupid driver problem:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rich_grise/images/SafeCar.gif

Just drive a BMW Isetta. Its close to the same thing.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
How do I set a laser printer to stun?

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 16:12:15 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

Speaking of Darwin, here's a solution to the stupid driver problem:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rich_grise/images/SafeCar.gif

Just drive a BMW Isetta. Its close to the same thing.

ROTFLMAO! The very first day I was at MIT I met a guy from
Minneapolis who had driven all the way to Cambridge in an Isetta. We
went out to dinner in the thing... it's scary to be looking at bumpers
straight ahead of your eyes ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Hovnanian P.E.
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote (in <3FD3C1DF.F0C83C1C@Hovnanian.com&gt about
'Cost of a Traffic Signal ??', on Sun, 7 Dec 2003:

How do I set a laser printer to stun?

This used to be highly classified, but I can now tell you that you send
it the hexadecimal code sequence 53 54 55 4E. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

 

[Mark Fergerson]

DarkMatter wrote:

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:53:55 -0700, Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness
Gave us:


I've been riding a bike (why is it one "drives" a car by
making minimal hand and foot motions, while one "rides" a
bike by exerting one's whole body?) for much longer. Assume
that _everyone_ is actively trying to kill you. If you ride
through a place like Sun City (monster retirement
"community") assume the extra added spice of failing vision
and reflexes on the part of drivers.

Cover your own ass; the cops won't do it for you.



Look, you fucking retard...The RIGHT OF WAY on a road is to the
vehicle (driver) in front of you. If your lame ass intends to pass
said vehicle, the responsibility to do so safely is YOURS, the
rearward approaching vehicle. Dig?

Look, you fucking illiterate, come February I will have
been riding a bike for _thirty years_ in AZ.

Don't worry about others' responsibilities; yours is to
cover your own ass no matter what some dimbfuck does. YOU
have to be ready for anything, anytime.

<snip whining>

Do you also drive a car? Do you then treat cyclist with
the respect you demand? I do, but I also expect everyone
else to be COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOTS, just in case. Grow the
hell up.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 09:02:37 -0700, Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness>
wrote:

[snip]

Do you also drive a car? Do you then treat cyclist with
the respect you demand? I do, but I also expect everyone
else to be COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOTS, just in case. Grow the
hell up.

Mark L. Fergerson

Don't you get extra points for running over bicyclists riding down the
middle of a traffic lane ?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Mark Fergerson]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 09:02:37 -0700, Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness
wrote:

[snip]

Do you also drive a car? Do you then treat cyclist with
the respect you demand? I do, but I also expect everyone
else to be COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOTS, just in case. Grow the
hell up.

Mark L. Fergerson


Don't you get extra points for running over bicyclists riding down the
middle of a traffic lane ?

AZ law requires cyclists to follow the same laws (barring
equipment differences) as cars; if the middle of the lane is
all that's available, that's what you have to use, though
like all "slow vehicles" you're s'posed to keep as far right
as practicable. I'm anticipating the Legislature to require
those triangle sign/reflectors on bicycles.

OTOH I never said bicyclists can't be CFIs too; remember
the "drunk cyclist" flap a while back after one got himself
killed by darting in front of a cop at night (he had no
lights or reflectors on his bike)? I think that qualifies
for a Darwin Award.

Mark L. Fergerson