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On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 00:48:27 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 5:03:37 PM UTC+11, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 20:14:13 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
Chinese migrant worked used to have two cell phones - one for making
local calls where they worked and the other for making local calls
when they were at home. If all those second phone had got retired,
you've got your explanation.
Not exactly. Chinese smart phones usually have dual SIM slots for
that purpose. Since that phone cannot connect to two different
services at the same time, they appear on call logs as one IMEI or
MEID for both SIMs.
There are also various reasons why they need dual SIMs.
"Why do Chinese smartphones have two SIM card slots?"
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Chinese-smartphones-have-two-SIM-card-slots
Same principle. It is the phone numbers that have been retired, not necessarily the phones themselves.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0262407920305704
makes the point that the Chinese success wasn't primarily due to rigid lock-down, but the same sort of fanatical contact tracing and isolation of people who might have got infected that was used in South Korea. South Korea had enough warning that they could go straight to contact tracing, and didn't need to bother with lock-down.
If they were relying on cell-phones to keep track of people, they wouldn't be happy if the cell-phone had two SIM cards which could have been swapped between phones by people wanting to sneak out.
It doesn't matter if the phone number changes. The IMEI or MEID will
not change because they are burned into the firmware of the phone and
are not part of the user accessible SIM.
That Korea is doing is tracking people using an app (and testing):
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wildly-popular-coronavirus-tracker-app-helps-south-koreans-steer-clear-of-outbreak-areas-2020-03-18
Those users are expected to enter their medical status twice per day.
If they're locked down, and they step outside the house or apartment,
the authorities will contact them with a suitable threat if they fail
to cooperate. If they are shown to be infected, or come in contact
with someone else known to be infected, the GPS location log is used
to do contact tracing and isolate everyone who might have been
exposed. I don't have any info on how China did it, but I suspect
it's similar.
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 3:00:28 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 00:48:27 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 5:03:37 PM UTC+11, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 20:14:13 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
Chinese migrant worked used to have two cell phones - one for making
local calls where they worked and the other for making local calls
when they were at home. If all those second phone had got retired,
you've got your explanation.
Not exactly. Chinese smart phones usually have dual SIM slots for
that purpose. Since that phone cannot connect to two different
services at the same time, they appear on call logs as one IMEI or
MEID for both SIMs.
There are also various reasons why they need dual SIMs.
"Why do Chinese smartphones have two SIM card slots?"
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Chinese-smartphones-have-two-SIM-card-slots
Same principle. It is the phone numbers that have been retired, not necessarily the phones themselves.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0262407920305704
makes the point that the Chinese success wasn't primarily due to rigid lock-down, but the same sort of fanatical contact tracing and isolation of people who might have got infected that was used in South Korea. South Korea had enough warning that they could go straight to contact tracing, and didn't need to bother with lock-down.
If they were relying on cell-phones to keep track of people, they wouldn't be happy if the cell-phone had two SIM cards which could have been swapped between phones by people wanting to sneak out.
It doesn't matter if the phone number changes. The IMEI or MEID will
not change because they are burned into the firmware of the phone and
are not part of the user accessible SIM.
That Korea is doing is tracking people using an app (and testing):
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wildly-popular-coronavirus-tracker-app-helps-south-koreans-steer-clear-of-outbreak-areas-2020-03-18
Those users are expected to enter their medical status twice per day.
If they're locked down, and they step outside the house or apartment,
the authorities will contact them with a suitable threat if they fail
to cooperate. If they are shown to be infected, or come in contact
with someone else known to be infected, the GPS location log is used
to do contact tracing and isolate everyone who might have been
exposed. I don't have any info on how China did it, but I suspect
it's similar.
I guess we can't do that here because we value our freedom to be infected?
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 8:25:38 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 8:15:42 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:27:46 AM UTC+11, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 5:50:17 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 27/03/20 03:33, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
It's hard to trust people who fudged and fibbed, that's John's point.
They've consistently worked hard to minimize and understate. If they've
under-reported infections, that changes the case fatality rates the
world's panicked over.
Sorry, are you talking about China or the Trump administration?
China. They destroyed samples, suppressed the news, and were telling
the world it wasn't contagious when they knew it was.
Briefly, early on. The twits that did it seem likely to be punsiehd for it.
The Trump administrations been brilliant, ankle-biters notwithstanding.
James Arthur would think that. The US now has more case than China, despite having been warned in advance, and having Italy as an example of what happens if you don't go in for social isolation early on, and South Korea's example demonstrating that fanatical contact tracing and isolation of all possible contacts really does work.
The Trump adminstation is up there with the ayatollahs in Iran as the people who have he done worst job of coping with the epidemic.
Trump has been persistent in praising himself for his performance, but that never stops, and has nothing to do with the quality of his performance.
Correction: the US has more REPORTED cases than China; the REAL number of cases in China is unknown, but is MUCH larger than what they are reporting.
The real number of case in China probably is higher than the reported cases - if you get a mild case and don't take it to the doctor, how is it going tog et reported.
The claim that it is much higher is pure conspiracy theory nitwit speculation.
See my post on the disconnection of 21 million cell phones.
There are other explanations for that. China seems to have moved to making it a rule that you only have one cell phone and use it wherever you are, so the government knows exactly where you are.
Chinese migrant worked used to have two cell phones - one for making local calls where they worked and the other for making local calls when they were at home. If all those second phone had got retired, you've got your explanation.
Not one that any rabid conspiracy theory nut would want to pay any attention to, but still plausible.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll down to
"world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for
somebody with the raw data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that they did post graphs..
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:14:17 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 8:25:38 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 8:15:42 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:27:46 AM UTC+11, dagmarg...@yahoo..com wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 5:50:17 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 27/03/20 03:33, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
It's hard to trust people who fudged and fibbed, that's John's point.
They've consistently worked hard to minimize and understate. If they've
under-reported infections, that changes the case fatality rates the
world's panicked over.
Sorry, are you talking about China or the Trump administration?
China. They destroyed samples, suppressed the news, and were telling
the world it wasn't contagious when they knew it was.
Briefly, early on. The twits that did it seem likely to be punsiehd for it.
The Trump administrations been brilliant, ankle-biters notwithstanding.
James Arthur would think that. The US now has more case than China, despite having been warned in advance, and having Italy as an example of what happens if you don't go in for social isolation early on, and South Korea's example demonstrating that fanatical contact tracing and isolation of all possible contacts really does work.
The Trump adminstation is up there with the ayatollahs in Iran as the people who have he done worst job of coping with the epidemic.
Trump has been persistent in praising himself for his performance, but that never stops, and has nothing to do with the quality of his performance.
Correction: the US has more REPORTED cases than China; the REAL number of cases in China is unknown, but is MUCH larger than what they are reporting.
The real number of case in China probably is higher than the reported cases - if you get a mild case and don't take it to the doctor, how is it going tog et reported.
The claim that it is much higher is pure conspiracy theory nitwit speculation.
See my post on the disconnection of 21 million cell phones.
There are other explanations for that. China seems to have moved to making it a rule that you only have one cell phone and use it wherever you are, so the government knows exactly where you are.
Chinese migrant worked used to have two cell phones - one for making local calls where they worked and the other for making local calls when they were at home. If all those second phone had got retired, you've got your explanation.
Not one that any rabid conspiracy theory nut would want to pay any attention to, but still plausible.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Probably? Are you fucking joking? They are thru the roof higher than these liars are reporting. The world growth rate in reported cases is 11-12% (including these liars), yet they are reporting ZERO case growth! The Chinese comms are ARRESTING anyone in China who dares to tell the truth, idiot.
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll down to
"world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for
somebody with the raw data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out." And the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:14:17 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 8:25:38 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 8:15:42 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:27:46 AM UTC+11, dagmarg...@yahoo..com wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 5:50:17 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 27/03/20 03:33, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
It's hard to trust people who fudged and fibbed, that's John's point.
They've consistently worked hard to minimize and understate. If they've
under-reported infections, that changes the case fatality rates the
world's panicked over.
Sorry, are you talking about China or the Trump administration?
China. They destroyed samples, suppressed the news, and were telling
the world it wasn't contagious when they knew it was.
Briefly, early on. The twits that did it seem likely to be punsiehd for it.
The Trump administrations been brilliant, ankle-biters notwithstanding.
James Arthur would think that. The US now has more case than China, despite having been warned in advance, and having Italy as an example of what happens if you don't go in for social isolation early on, and South Korea's example demonstrating that fanatical contact tracing and isolation of all possible contacts really does work.
The Trump adminstation is up there with the ayatollahs in Iran as the people who have he done worst job of coping with the epidemic.
Trump has been persistent in praising himself for his performance, but that never stops, and has nothing to do with the quality of his performance.
Correction: the US has more REPORTED cases than China; the REAL number of cases in China is unknown, but is MUCH larger than what they are reporting.
The real number of case in China probably is higher than the reported cases - if you get a mild case and don't take it to the doctor, how is it going tog et reported.
The claim that it is much higher is pure conspiracy theory nitwit speculation.
See my post on the disconnection of 21 million cell phones.
There are other explanations for that. China seems to have moved to making it a rule that you only have one cell phone and use it wherever you are, so the government knows exactly where you are.
Chinese migrant worked used to have two cell phones - one for making local calls where they worked and the other for making local calls when they were at home. If all those second phone had got retired, you've got your explanation.
Not one that any rabid conspiracy theory nut would want to pay any attention to, but still plausible.
Probably? Are you fucking joking? They are thru the roof higher than these liars are reporting. The world growth rate in reported cases is 11-12% (including these liars), yet they are reporting ZERO case growth! The Chinese comms are ARRESTING anyone in China who dares to tell the truth, idiot.
A lot of the people who are locked down have merely been
in contact with somebody who is known to be infected, and
thus only might be infectious, but that's what it take
to get R0 well below one.
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 16:19:10 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
A lot of the people who are locked down have merely been
in contact with somebody who is known to be infected, and
thus only might be infectious, but that's what it take
to get R0 well below one.
Only the paranoid survive. I know of a local doctor who may have been
exposed to someone with the virus. They're not sure, but since
doctors are so valuable, it pays to err on the side of caution. So,
she gets a 14 day "vacation" at home doing "video visits":
https://www.sutterhealth.org/myhealthonline/video-visits
The real problem seems to be asymptomatic (shows no symptoms) people,
who have been infected, but don't know it yet. Estimates from various
sources put the percentage of people who test positive, but are
asymtomatic at 10 to 30%. With the current USA positive test results
running anywhere from 2% to 25% and only a small percentage of the
population having been tested, that could easily be a rather large
number of unknowing carriers.
Data from internet connected fever thermometers are producing some
interesting results showing that social distancing and staying at home
seem to work:
https://healthweather.us
https://www.kinsahealth.co/products/
However, I have no information as to how many internet connected fever
thermometers were used to calculate the trends shown on the map.
On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 9:54:19 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 11:37:19 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 2:02:06 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
I have been collecting the data from the CDC which is dated to the estimated time of infection. This data shows new infections being attributed to dates up to a month ago. This both raises the numbers for older data and lowers the numbers for newer data. It also invalidates the newest data as being incomplete.
Constructing a graph from the most recent curve up to the peak infection rate gives a very consistent exponential line with a slope of 0.19. I will note this number and update it each day as the CDC releases new data. The data peak is 3/13 for data of 3/24 and has moved from 3/9 in data dated 3/19.
Unfortunately this method has a much longer lag time from actions to fight this disease.
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
I've been following it. It is and has been growing at almost
exactly 1.34x per day in the U.S. for the past 15 days. The U.K.
growth rate is also very consistent, but considerably lower. Weird.
Most of our infections are in New York, and nearly all of
the spread is from New Yorkers fleeing to Florida and
probably also visiting New Orleans' Mardi Gras, leaving
a swath of WuFlu as they go.
James Arthur
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
I'm watching the "daily increase" graphs. The last few days are flat
or declining for some. Italy, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland
(which has no shelter-in-place rules) all seem to have peaked a few
days ago. You can sort of mentally plop a bell-shaped curve over a lot
of those graphs. We need another week of data.
The CDC has a useful graph of the various states:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html?CDC_AA_refVal
Screen-grabbing that graph's evolution over time shows the spread.
I've been following https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
for the overall picture -- the log graphs make it easy. But we
can't vouch for the site's accuracy.
I don't trust the data from China. Doesn't make sense. I suspect they
will open the country for business and pretend there are no more
deaths.
I never knew that New Jersey is in Africa, but I sort of suspected
something like that.
I took a peek at New Jersey that time we were in New York, ages ago.
Dickensian.
Cheers,
James
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll down to
"world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for
somebody with the raw data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out." And the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the data the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around here.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On 31/03/20 17:29, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll
down to "world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for somebody with the raw
data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first
website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them
seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their
data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that
they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out." And
the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the data
the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic
misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms. And I know why:
Australia's NUMBER ONE trading partner is China. I've seen that attitude
here: our NBA was also sucking up to the Chicomms because they do a huge
business there, and muzzled an owner at the Chicomm's insistence when he
criticized them. Now, they are stopping shipments of medical supplies to the
US. When you lie down with snakes don't be surprised when you are bitten.
At least the Chinese are dealing with the problem
better than the USA is.
Your rants are what I would expect from a neocon that
is correctly afraid that their philosophy is about to
become very unpopular. Unless there is a big smokescreen
people will eventually realise that big government will
do a better job of protecting them than market forces.
Why? Because politicians can be removed by individuals,
unlike companies.
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll
down to "world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for somebody with the raw
data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first
website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them
seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their
data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that
they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out." And
the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the data
the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic
misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms. And I know why:
Australia's NUMBER ONE trading partner is China. I've seen that attitude
here: our NBA was also sucking up to the Chicomms because they do a huge
business there, and muzzled an owner at the Chicomm's insistence when he
criticized them. Now, they are stopping shipments of medical supplies to the
US. When you lie down with snakes don't be surprised when you are bitten.
On 31/03/20 17:29, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll
down to "world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for somebody with the raw
data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first
website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them
seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their
data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that
they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out." And
the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the data
the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic
misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms. And I know why:
Australia's NUMBER ONE trading partner is China. I've seen that attitude
here: our NBA was also sucking up to the Chicomms because they do a huge
business there, and muzzled an owner at the Chicomm's insistence when he
criticized them. Now, they are stopping shipments of medical supplies to the
US. When you lie down with snakes don't be surprised when you are bitten.
At least the Chinese are dealing with the problem
better than the USA is.
Your rants are what I would expect from a neocon that
is correctly afraid that their philosophy is about to
become very unpopular. Unless there is a big smokescreen
people will eventually realise that big government will
do a better job of protecting them than market forces.
Why? Because politicians can be removed by individuals,
unlike companies.
On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 2:05:26 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 31/03/20 17:29, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner
wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs -
scroll down to "world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan
and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for somebody with the
raw data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the
first website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for
taking them seriously I did point out that that they did say where
they got their data from, but that my main reason for using them
was the fact that they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out."
And the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the
data the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic
misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around
here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms. And I know why:
Australia's NUMBER ONE trading partner is China. I've seen that attitude
here: our NBA was also sucking up to the Chicomms because they do a huge
business there, and muzzled an owner at the Chicomm's insistence when he
criticized them. Now, they are stopping shipments of medical supplies to
the US. When you lie down with snakes don't be surprised when you are
bitten.
At least the Chinese are dealing with the problem better than the USA is.
Your rants are what I would expect from a neocon that is correctly afraid
that their philosophy is about to become very unpopular. Unless there is a
big smokescreen people will eventually realise that big government will do
a better job of protecting them than market forces.
Why? Because politicians can be removed by individuals, unlike companies.
I do not rant very often as it never seems to make any difference. But I
think that it is good to have some countries with big government and some
with market forces being dominate. _And you are wrong about market forces
not being able to remove companies. Currently the retail companies are
changing or being removed.
It sucks to pay a lot more for health care, but it is nice to have
companies working on manufacturing ventilators and developing vaccines.
On 31/03/20 19:50, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 2:05:26 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 31/03/20 17:29, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner
wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs -
scroll down to "world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan
and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for somebody with the
raw data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the
first website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for
taking them seriously I did point out that that they did say where
they got their data from, but that my main reason for using them
was the fact that they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out.."
And the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the
data the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic
misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around
here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms. And I know why:
Australia's NUMBER ONE trading partner is China. I've seen that attitude
here: our NBA was also sucking up to the Chicomms because they do a huge
business there, and muzzled an owner at the Chicomm's insistence when he
criticized them. Now, they are stopping shipments of medical supplies to
the US. When you lie down with snakes don't be surprised when you are
bitten.
At least the Chinese are dealing with the problem better than the USA is.
Your rants are what I would expect from a neocon that is correctly afraid
that their philosophy is about to become very unpopular. Unless there is a
big smokescreen people will eventually realise that big government will do
a better job of protecting them than market forces.
Why? Because politicians can be removed by individuals, unlike companies.
I do not rant very often as it never seems to make any difference. But I
think that it is good to have some countries with big government and some
with market forces being dominate. _And you are wrong about market forces
not being able to remove companies. Currently the retail companies are
changing or being removed.
Read what I wrote. Your comments have zero relevance to that!
Hint: individuals cannot remove companies (but they can remove
governments)
It sucks to pay a lot more for health care, but it is nice to have
companies working on manufacturing ventilators and developing vaccines.
Except when companies deliberately thwart that.
Here's how market forces are killing Americans from Covid-19, by preventing the
manufacture of low-cost ventilators that would undercut expensive existing
product lines.....
It was 2010 and Newport Medical Instruments, a small medical device company in
Costa Mesa, California, was excited. They had just signed a federal contract to
design and build up to 40,000 mobile ventilators, which would be placed into the
national stockpile in the interest of pandemic preparedness. After SARS and bird
flu and swine flu, the government needed to steel itself should a deadly
infectious disease go viral.
Newport agreed to deliver the devices at a low-cost, not only to maximize
federal purchases but also to build a reputation that could increase sales to
other countries and the private sector. The company sent prototypes within a
year, and was on track for market approval by 2013.
But before that could happen, Covidien, a larger firm, announced a bid to
purchase Newport for $108 million in March 2012. The Federal Trade Commission
didnât even give it a second look; the deal closed in May. And Covidien sold its
own ventilators. They werenât interested in developing a new model that could
cut into its existing profits. Covidien immediately asked for more money from
the government, and by 2014 they called off the deal because âit was not
sufficiently profitable for the company.â
https://prospect.org/coronavirus/unsanitized-covidien-story-corporate-america-ventilators/
On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 2:05:26 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 31/03/20 17:29, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll
down to "world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for somebody with the raw
data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first
website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them
seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their
data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that
they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out." And
the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the data
the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic
misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms. And I know why:
Australia's NUMBER ONE trading partner is China. I've seen that attitude
here: our NBA was also sucking up to the Chicomms because they do a huge
business there, and muzzled an owner at the Chicomm's insistence when he
criticized them. Now, they are stopping shipments of medical supplies to the
US. When you lie down with snakes don't be surprised when you are bitten.
At least the Chinese are dealing with the problem
better than the USA is.
Your rants are what I would expect from a neocon that
is correctly afraid that their philosophy is about to
become very unpopular. Unless there is a big smokescreen
people will eventually realise that big government will
do a better job of protecting them than market forces.
Why? Because politicians can be removed by individuals,
unlike companies.
I do not rant very often as it never seems to make any difference. But I think that it is good to have some countries with big government and some with market forces being dominate.
It sucks to pay a lot more for health care, but it is nice to have companies working on manufacturing ventilators and developing vaccines.
Dan
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll down to
"world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for
somebody with the raw data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out." And the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the data the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around here.
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms.
On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 2:05:26 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 31/03/20 17:29, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll
down to "world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for somebody with the raw
data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first
website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them
seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their
data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that
they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out.." And
the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the data
the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic
misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms. And I know why:
Australia's NUMBER ONE trading partner is China. I've seen that attitude
here: our NBA was also sucking up to the Chicomms because they do a huge
business there, and muzzled an owner at the Chicomm's insistence when he
criticized them. Now, they are stopping shipments of medical supplies to the
US. When you lie down with snakes don't be surprised when you are bitten.
At least the Chinese are dealing with the problem
better than the USA is.
Your rants are what I would expect from a neocon that
is correctly afraid that their philosophy is about to
become very unpopular. Unless there is a big smokescreen
people will eventually realise that big government will
do a better job of protecting them than market forces.
Why? Because politicians can be removed by individuals,
unlike companies.
I do not rant very often as it never seems to make any difference. But I think that it is good to have some countries with big government and some with market forces being dominate. _And you are wrong about market forces not being able to remove companies. Currently the retail companies are changing or being removed.
It sucks to pay a lot more for health care, but it is nice to have companies working on manufacturing ventilators and developing vaccines.
On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 2:50:19 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 2:05:26 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 31/03/20 17:29, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 4:41:27 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 5:50:20 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:46:27 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 28/03/20 20:17, Martin Brown wrote:
These are quite an interesting and worrying set of graphs - scroll
down to "world" to see the comparison of USA with Japan and Italy:
http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/#wn
Thanks for those graphs; I've been waiting for somebody with the raw
data to plot them.
Recommended.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
has been plotting the data for several weeks now. They were the first
website I found that did it, and when I got jeered at for taking them
seriously I did point out that that they did say where they got their
data from, but that my main reason for using them was the fact that
they did post graphs.
GIGO. Remember that? If not, it stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out." And
the fucking Chinese comms are feeding us GARBAGE!
Flyguy doesn't realise that his claims about the reliability of the data
the Chineses are sending out are based solely on his moronic
misconceptions, which makes him the obvious garbage emitter around here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hardly. You are the moron who sucks up to the Chicomms. And I know why:
Australia's NUMBER ONE trading partner is China. I've seen that attitude
here: our NBA was also sucking up to the Chicomms because they do a huge
business there, and muzzled an owner at the Chicomm's insistence when he
criticized them. Now, they are stopping shipments of medical supplies to the
US. When you lie down with snakes don't be surprised when you are bitten.
At least the Chinese are dealing with the problem
better than the USA is.
Your rants are what I would expect from a neocon that
is correctly afraid that their philosophy is about to
become very unpopular. Unless there is a big smokescreen
people will eventually realise that big government will
do a better job of protecting them than market forces.
Why? Because politicians can be removed by individuals,
unlike companies.
I do not rant very often as it never seems to make any difference. But I think that it is good to have some countries with big government and some with market forces being dominate.
It's nice to have some countries with big government and some with
market forces because that way the countries with big governments
can still have vaccines, medicines, technology, etc.
But it's always weird to me, in the very middle of a demonstration
of the limitations of centralizing government, to see bigger,
more centralized government being advocated as the solution.
If that's the solution, then why shouldn't all European nations'
health care be centrally coordinated in India (they have a big
government). Or Rome? Or Washington D.C. I mean, why not? For
'efficiency,' right?
And you are wrong about market forces not being able to remove companies. Currently the retail companies are changing or being removed.
Right. Every single person gets to vote on every company, every day.
And they only get your vote if they're doing something you like,
want, or approve of.
It sucks to pay a lot more for health care, but it is nice to have companies working on manufacturing ventilators and developing vaccines.