Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems

[Jerry]

"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4f0544ee.3713744@news.eternal-september.org...
: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:51:51 -0000, Terry Casey
: <k.type@example.invalid> wrote:
:
<snip>
:
: Nothing to do with legality, just practicability. If you want
to sell
: goods in the UK market, it is a pretty good idea to supply them
with a
: UK mains plug. Adaptors are for when you travel, not at home.
One
: current exception is mains-powered shavers (only a few left
now), that
: use a two-pin plug specifically designed for an isolated
bathroom
: connector.

Not sure what Terry means by "Mains Powered" (only 240v ?), there
seems to be quite a few "mains powered" razors still being sold,
many do have rechargeable batteries but still come with a two pin
power lead for use in UK isolated shaver outlets to allow for
recharging. In fact IIRC MK actually make, for the *UK market*
two pin shaver outlets /without/ a isolating transformer for
fitting into non-hazardous areas such as bedrooms and dressing
rooms.

:
: A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring
has in
: one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin
socket.
:

....and very useful they are too, allowing for remote operation of
non fixed lighting.
Their 15A round pin cousins are still legal too, of course they
have to be installed on radial circuits, one such use is on
emersion heaters were the control switch is remote from the water
tanks location, thus enabling a definite DP isolation to be
achieved when servicing/repair is required.
--
Regards, Jerry.

 

[Jerry]

"Paul Ratcliffe" <abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote in
message news:slrnjg9mqt.4m4.abuse@news.pr.network...
: On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 18:42:22 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John)
: <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:
: >>I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some
years ago there
: >
: > It is far too big for most of the devices currently on it,
yes - and
: > also, the three ratings for the matching fuse (BS1362) widely
available
: > are far too high: 3, 5, and 13A. (Even 1A - which you _can_
get in
: > BS1362, but you don't half have to hunt for it
:
: Huh? RS have 1,2,3,5,7,10,13 readily available. This is not
what
: I'd call "half having to hunt for".

Except that if you said "RS" to most of the UK's population they
would either look back blankly or think of a Ford motor car that
was popular in the 1970s and '80s. Again Mr Ratcliffe shows that
he lives only in a bubble of techo-babble speak...

:
: > - is too high for most
: > electronic appliances.) IMO, the fact that the plugs are
fused actually
: > gives a _false_ sense of security, _because_ the fuse ratings
are so
: > high; all that fuse can effectively protect is the mains lead
(or power
: > cord, as it's called in US) itself.
:
: The fuse is only *designed* to protect the mains lead, not the
device to
: which the lead is connected. That's what the device's internal
fuse is for.

Assuming it has one, most domestic appliances don't. Again Mr
Ratcliffe shows that he lives only in a bubble of techo-babble
speak...
--
Regards, Jerry.

 

[Jerry]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:524c81fcf5dave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <je21cf$7t4$1@dont-email.me>,
: Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
: > Because it can get accidentally switched off due to stuff
being
: > moved or pushed to the back of the cupboard!
:
: You keep your fridge in a cupboard?

Err, news:alt.troll is that away Mr Plowman ===>

But heck, you have kitchen cupboards that you don't put anything
in?!

:
: Stick some gaffer tape over the switch.
:

Oh right, so your solution is a bodge on a bodge, rather than
doing the job right first time?

 

[Jerry]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:524cbf4645dave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <je3tj7$8ra$6@dont-email.me>,
: Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
: > : You keep your fridge in a cupboard?
:
: > Err, news:alt.troll is that away Mr Plowman ===>
:
: Not surprised you have that to hand.

Well when the suit fits...

:
: > But heck, you have kitchen cupboards that you don't put
anything
: > in?!
:
: I don't put 'anything' in the fridge housing, no. Or the one
for the
: washing machine etc either. I'd say it's rather rare for anyone
to keep a
: fridge in an actual cupboard these days. Putting something used
for
<snip further trolling>

FFS, what pills are you on these days Plowman?! The cupboard
*next* to a free standing or otherwise fridge, were electricians
(and you, IIRC) often suggest the socket for the fridge supply is
placed -along with a bloody great hole on the side of said
cupboard for the plug to pass through- rather than the more
professional approach of an accessible and visible
'neon-indicated' switched-fuse plate and remote fixed flex outlet
or (if disconnection of the appliance needs to be tools free) a
15A round pin socket outlet.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4f0544ee.3713744@news.eternal-september.org>,
Don Pearce <spam@spam.com> wrote:

A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring has in
one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin socket.

All the 'old' round 3 pin sockets still comply to UK regs - provided they
are on a suitable circuit. A common use is for floor or table lamps
switched from the wall, etc. If on a dimmer, plugging the hoover into that
wouldn't be a good idea...
Some of the modern versions available are shuttered.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <je3tj7$8ra$6@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

: You keep your fridge in a cupboard?

Err, news:alt.troll is that away Mr Plowman ===

Not surprised you have that to hand.

But heck, you have kitchen cupboards that you don't put anything
in?!

I don't put 'anything' in the fridge housing, no. Or the one for the
washing machine etc either. I'd say it's rather rare for anyone to keep a
fridge in an actual cupboard these days. Putting something used for
storage inside something else used for storage strikes me as wasting
space. But then it does sound like you live somewhere with something not
representative of most kitchens.

:
: Stick some gaffer tape over the switch.
:

Oh right, so your solution is a bodge on a bodge, rather than
doing the job right first time?

FFS. If it really concerned me I'd not be whinging about it here - I'd
have changed it years ago.

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[David Looser]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:524cbda0a7dave@davenoise.co.uk...

In article <4f0544ee.3713744@news.eternal-september.org>,
Don Pearce <spam@spam.com> wrote:
A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring has in
one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin socket.

All the 'old' round 3 pin sockets still comply to UK regs - provided they
are on a suitable circuit. A common use is for floor or table lamps
switched from the wall, etc. If on a dimmer, plugging the hoover into that
wouldn't be a good idea...
Some of the modern versions available are shuttered.

And of course the 15A version is the de-facto standard for theatrical stage

lighting.

David.

 

[Jerry]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:524cd89548dave@davenoise.co.uk...

<yet more trolling snipped>

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <je40ui$pfp$1@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

FFS, what pills are you on these days Plowman?! The cupboard
*next* to a free standing or otherwise fridge, were electricians
(and you, IIRC) often suggest the socket for the fridge supply is
placed -along with a bloody great hole on the side of said
cupboard for the plug to pass through- rather than the more
professional approach of an accessible and visible
'neon-indicated' switched-fuse plate and remote fixed flex outlet
or (if disconnection of the appliance needs to be tools free) a
15A round pin socket outlet.

Right. You need a neon to tell you the fridge is on? And a handy switch to
switch it off? Have you ever sought treatment?

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Terry Casey]

In article <je3tj6$8ra$2@dont-email.me>,
mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID says...

"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4f0544ee.3713744@news.eternal-september.org...
: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:51:51 -0000, Terry Casey
: <k.type@example.invalid> wrote:
:
snip
:
: Nothing to do with legality, just practicability. If you want
to sell
: goods in the UK market, it is a pretty good idea to supply them
with a
: UK mains plug. Adaptors are for when you travel, not at home.
One
: current exception is mains-powered shavers (only a few left
now), that
: use a two-pin plug specifically designed for an isolated
bathroom
: connector.

Not sure what Terry means by "Mains Powered" (only 240v ?),

Err ...

That was Don, I think you'll find ...
--

Terry

 

[Jerry]

"Terry Casey" <k.type@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.297049423f9dd1709896e2@news.eternal-september.org...
: In article <je3tj6$8ra$2@dont-email.me>,
: mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID says...
: >
<snip>
: >
: > Not sure what Terry means by "Mains Powered" (only 240v ?),
:
: Err ...
:
: That was Don, I think you'll find ...

So it was, sorry! :~(
--
Regards, Jerry.

 

On Jan 3, 4:39 am, "David Looser" <david.loo...@btinternet.com> wrote:

rruss...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:a9b8c246-51b9-428d-8242-522e685a63d5@24g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

The British electrical standards are the dumbest on planet, or at
least the dumbest I have ever run into. Except for the Japanese, who
are combine the worst possible voltage standard with two different
frequencies.

In the US, we have two voltages in (all but really really old)
houses: 120 and 240, although most outlets are 120, the ranges,
clothes dryers and air conditioners are 240. And that 240 is balanced.
If we were SERIOUS audiophiles, we'd have 240 volt four pin dryer
outlets put in our listening rooms and run our power amps on 240.

A very large number of countries run their mains supplies at 220-240V, not
just the UK! Electrical standards were not designed for the benefit of
audiophools, but in practice there's nothing wrong with the 230V standard in
this regard. The standard of electrical installations I've seen in the US
are far worse than those normally encountered here. And the high-powered
audio equipment I've seen in the US runs off 120V thus supplies requiring
heavy-guage mains flex. Definitely no improvement on what we have here!

No, my beef is not with 220/240 volt distribution-I prefer it. It's
the goofy room wiring in loops and the goofy sockets the Brits use I
think are ridiculous.

That's why I said the Japanese standard was the worst of all.

In the US we are blessed with having three wire split phase 120/240
in most every house built since WWII and many earlier. We just don't
use it for audio, and my argument is that we should. We also have 60
as opposed to 50 hz, which is better from a power supply design
standpoint, although prudence dictates design for any frequency
between slightly under 50 to well over 60 Hz. except in the case of
motors.

 

On Jan 3, 5:24 am, "David Looser" <david.loo...@btinternet.com> wrote:

"Eiron" <Evelyn.Carn...@live.com> wrote in message

news:9mg55iF5j0U1@mid.individual.net...



Can I just mention another example of European Union lunacy?
Voltage is standardized at 230v +- a fudge factor so that the UK
can keep to 240v and the rest of Europe can keep 220v with no plans
for any country to adopt 230v. Now that is dumb!

I'm not sure it is so dumb
There always was a tolerance range on the UK 240V mains, what happened was
that these tolerance limits were widened and re-centred on 230V. But these
new limits are now EU-wide so any equipment manufactured to these new limits
(230V +/- 10%) is suitable for sale anywhere within the EU.

And the UK plugs are rather large. That would be a valid criticism.
It spoils the lines of a laptop bag....

I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some years ago there
was a serious attempt to introduce a EU standard plug & socket, an attempt
that failed because of the NIH (not-invented-here) factor. I rather like the
German 'Shucko' socket and would be happy to see it replace the BS1363
socket here, but can you image the reaction of the Daily Mail readers?

That or the Australian socket would be my choice, or one of the 220
NEMA sockets.

If you are going to build "valve" equipment for the world market you
need a winding scheme on the PT that gives bogey filament voltages at
220, 230 and 240 volts and, I understand that in Australia 250 vac is
not uncommon in practice.

In Britain one may readily obtain a "site transformer" which will
give what is advertised as 110 volt balanced power. I haven't been
there in 20+ years, can any Brits tell me if that's really true or if
120, or more, or less, is actually common? They are used for electric
drills and whatnot outdoors. Vintage US gear works fine at 110, but
mostly not current stuff.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
<3487ef4f-02f3-4673-9727-3672f9dd3bf0@m11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
<rrusston@hotmail.com> wrote:

No, my beef is not with 220/240 volt distribution-I prefer it. It's
the goofy room wiring in loops and the goofy sockets the Brits use I
think are ridiculous.

You need to look up fires caused by poorly specified house distribution
systems in the US, before criticising the UK. It is many times worse than
here.

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

On Jan 3, 6:21 am, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote in messagenews:slrnjg5qra.ref.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...

snip
: The UK used several systems, and a friend of mine who traveled
to London
: in the 1970's found that there were four different electrical
systems in use
: in various parts of the city. By that time they had been
standardized to
: 240 volts 50Hz, but the older plugs and lightbulbs (different
ones for
: different systems) remained.

Hmm, surely the 1970s were a tad late for different voltages
(certainly for London), the national grid had been started long
before WW2 and was complete not long after, are you are not
thinking of the different designs of electrical circuits and
sockets in use or perhaps a different time period?

I suppose that some building with their own (derived/generated)
power supplies might have had (still have) 'odd' systems to suit
their own needs, an exception rather than the rule.
--
Regards, Jerry.

A national grid has no need to standardize end user voltages, only
frequency.

Many different HV line voltages are used: houses and small businesses
get their power off a "pole pig" or a ground mounted transformer. They
always have trim windings and somewhere in the system must be a tap
changer setup because I2R losses change over the day as the power
demands vary widely.

It would be possible to have 220 in Northern England, 240 in Scotland
and 230-or 117, or 277, or any number at all-in Southampton. because
off a stepdown transformer you are rarely going more than 500 meters
to 1 km, usually less.

Switchmode equipment doesn't care. Solid state analog equipment is
regulated and has a design input range, power amps are often
unregulated and just make less power at lower line voltage. Tube
(valve) equipment wants its heaters at bogey voltage. In the case of
tungsten filaments on transmitting tubes it needs to be close to spot
on.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
<2a205b71-1531-4680-bc65-37db0eb10880@p13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
<rrusston@hotmail.com> wrote:

n Britain one may readily obtain a "site transformer" which will
give what is advertised as 110 volt balanced power. I haven't been
there in 20+ years, can any Brits tell me if that's really true or if
120, or more, or less, is actually common? They are used for electric
drills and whatnot outdoors. Vintage US gear works fine at 110, but
mostly not current stuff.

110 volt via an isolating transformer is used on building sites etc for
all power tools. Purely for safety reasons.

--
*I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

On Jan 4, 2:06 am, "David Looser" <david.loo...@btinternet.com> wrote:

"Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.INVALID> wrote



Not very often, just as kids in areas that do not use the UK's
BS1363 plug/socket don't tend to poke things into other types of
sockets, why because they are *taught* not to whilst being
supervised, of course that is to hard for average UK parents to
manage so the state has to hold their hands so to speak!

And with that paragraph you have blown any credibility you might have hoped
to acquire!

David.

Making things idiotproof makes better idiots.

The British nanny state is disgusting, dysgenic and depressing but
the US is headed in the exact same direction. The only bright spot is
that when WE implode our empire as you did yours (and, sadly, we
helped: Enoch Powell was oh so correct to hate us for that, although I
was not born when the stuff started and a seven year old when it
pretty much ended: we visited your lily pad back then and it was still
pounds, shillings, pence and no one could make change) the entire
economic system is coming down too and it will have to end pretty much
all over the West.

So don't take my comments the wrong way. We're _worse_ than you are
because we have the example of the mother country at our nose and
we're doing it anyway. God Save the Queen.

 

On Jan 4, 5:27 am, Terry Casey <k.t...@example.invalid> wrote:

In article <cRmH5almZ5APF...@soft255.demon.co.uk>,
G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk says...



In message <slrnjg5qra.ref....@cable.mendelson.com>, Geoffrey S.
Mendelson <g...@mendelson.com> writes:

The UK used several systems, and a friend of mine who traveled to London
in the 1970's found that there were four different electrical systems in use
in various parts of the city. By that time they had been standardized to
240 volts 50Hz, but the older plugs and lightbulbs (different ones for
different systems) remained.

Your friend sounds confused. The 240/50 was standardised a long time
before 1970, and the various plugs and bulbs had been running on 240/50
for some decades by then.

I remember a major upgrade taking place in West Ham to upgrade the
distribution network from 215V AC to the standard 240V while I was at
school there in the late 50s.

Nearby Ilford still had 200V DC, a hangover from when Ilford town
council generated 600V DC for its tramways and obviously found it
convenient to stick to DC for domestic supplies.

When it was converted to 240V AC I do not know but there was no evidence
of anything remotely DC connected when I moved there in the early 70s.

In the US there were 25 Hz buildings and even houses as late as the
early 70s and a few DC apartment and office buildings in New York
later than that. I stayed at a swank highrise in Chicago in the early
70s that was AC by then but was originally DC and there was evidence
of it in the labels tacked in the fuse box.

We also had a little 50 Hz before the war.

I've always wanted to do a full study of DC and odd frequency power
historically in the US but the research is not helped by the
electrical utilities. I think they are ashamed of it.

 

On Jan 27, 6:25 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk>
wrote:

In article
3487ef4f-02f3-4673-9727-3672f9dd3...@m11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
   <rruss...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 No, my beef is not with 220/240 volt distribution-I prefer it. It's
the goofy room wiring in loops and the goofy sockets the Brits use I
think are ridiculous.

You need to look up fires caused by poorly specified house distribution
systems in the US, before criticising the UK. It is many times worse than
here.

In the US, electrical house fires are mostly a result of incompetent
DIY wiring or failed appliances......or arson.

 

[Jerry]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:52585e9f3ddave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article
:
<3487ef4f-02f3-4673-9727-3672f9dd3bf0@m11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
: <rrusston@hotmail.com> wrote:
: > No, my beef is not with 220/240 volt distribution-I prefer
it. It's
: > the goofy room wiring in loops and the goofy sockets the
Brits use I
: > think are ridiculous.
:
: You need to look up fires caused by poorly specified house
distribution
: systems in the US, before criticising the UK. It is many times
worse than
: here.
:

But that is not caused but the use of radial circuits (opposed to
a ring circuit), it's the poor hardware (fittings and conductor)
used that causes the problem. If radial circuits were a fire
hazard, never mind actually being the cause of fires, then just
about every film/TV studio, theatre and other entertainment
venues that have a fixed lighting rig would either have burnt
down or been shut down on H&S grounds!

There is nothing wrong with radial circuits, the only two down
sides are amount of cabling needed and the size of the breaker
panel - IIRC ring circuits were introduced into the UK in an
attempt to save on cabling, due to cost. Radial circuits are
still, to this day, permitted.
--
Regards, Jerry.