Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems

[Jerry]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:524c5d569adave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <je1tje$ffl$4@dont-email.me>,
: Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
: > Nothing to do with a switch failing, it's either bulk order
price
: > or a wish to prevent accidental disconnection - for example,
a
: > freezer. I detest so called skilled electricians installing
: > switched outlets in the backs of cupboards for such
appliances,
: > if they must bodge then at least fit a an unswitched outlet.
:
: If the switch doesn't fail why does it matter if an
inaccessible one is
: switched or non switched?
:

Because it can get accidentally switched off due to stuff being
moved or pushed to the back of the cupboard!

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Jerry" <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote in message
news:je1tjf$ffl$5@dont-email.me...

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@cocmast.net> wrote in message
news:yc2dnYkff-Cr_pnSnZ2dnUVZ5q2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
: "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
: news:524c03e423dave@davenoise.co.uk...
:
snip
:
: > That's impossible as the pins have insulation down most of
their length -
: > only the end part makes contact.
:
: I know the German plugs were made that way It is good to know
that the UK
: plugs are made in a similar way.
:
: We still have all-brass pins here in the US.

Any idea what the figures, due to such plug/sockets, are for
shock or electrocution in the USA?

No such detailed stats, but US consumer deaths due to electrical appliances
are on the order of 1 per 500,000 persons per year. UK numbers appear to be
more like 1 per 2 million persons per year.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <je1tje$ffl$4@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

Nothing to do with a switch failing, it's either bulk order price
or a wish to prevent accidental disconnection - for example, a
freezer. I detest so called skilled electricians installing
switched outlets in the backs of cupboards for such appliances,
if they must bodge then at least fit a an unswitched outlet.

If the switch doesn't fail why does it matter if an inaccessible one is
switched or non switched?

--
*Modulation in all things *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Roderick Stewart]

In article <MPG.296e4b1c9094dfb59896d1@news.eternal-september.org>, Terry
Casey wrote:

On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.

Rod
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

 

[John Williamson]

Roderick Stewart wrote:

In article <MPG.296e4b1c9094dfb59896d1@news.eternal-september.org>, Terry
Casey wrote:
On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.

You mean like the lead that connects the three pin, 13A plug and

terminates in the two pin figure of eight socket used by 80% of the
laptop supplies in this room? I've got Euro leads for them, too, so I
don't need to use adaptors when I'm travelling.

The other two are wallwart supplies which plug into the wall and output
the right voltage for the computer.

I suspect there's been change in in legislation in at least one country
where the laptops are sold, ands it's cheaper to change the design on
all the units than make a different one for the offending country or
countries.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

 

[Terry Casey]

In article <yc2dnYkff-Cr_pnSnZ2dnUVZ5q2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
arnyk@cocmast.net says...

We still have all-brass pins here in the US.

Given the thickness (or should that be thinness) of the blades, is there
an alternative?

Reducing the size of the blade to allow for a sleeve would probably
weaken it too much and I doubt the sockets would accept thicker blades.

--

Terry

 

[Terry Casey]

In article <VA.00000bea.008008a9@escapetime.removethisbit.myzen.co.uk>,
rjfs@escapetime.removethisbit.myzen.co.uk says...

In article <MPG.296e4b1c9094dfb59896d1@news.eternal-september.org>, Terry
Casey wrote:
On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you implying that it is no
longer legal in the UK to supply equipment with twin flex (and matching
2-pole connector)?

--

Terry

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Terry Casey" <k.type@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.296ebd3f479978ea9896d8@news.eternal-september.org...

In article <yc2dnYkff-Cr_pnSnZ2dnUVZ5q2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
arnyk@cocmast.net says...


We still have all-brass pins here in the US.

Given the thickness (or should that be thinness) of the blades, is there
an alternative?

Good question.

Reducing the size of the blade to allow for a sleeve would probably
weaken it too much

Brass isn't the strongest stuff in the world. For low current apps (less
than a few amps) a proportionately stronger material like spring steel
could be used for the insulated section.

and I doubt the sockets would accept thicker blades.

You've got that right!

 

[Andy Champ]

On 04/01/2012 13:14, Jerry wrote:

On the slip side, the BS 1363 design can be very difficult to
insert/remove, the force needed can be quite high (especially for
the elderly or those with muscular problems), thus a risk of the
terminals making poor contact, also because (as you say) there is
less risk of a BS1363 plug being pulled out accidentally two
other risks are present, should the lead become stranded the lead
is damaged/parts company with the internal connections in either
plug or appliance and more importantly should electrocution occur
it is a dammed sight harder to purposely pull the appliance lead
out of the socket from a distance.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=easy+plug&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GBfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=9928575363582767211&sa=X&ei=orsET_7YK4uyhAeioZjKAQ&ved=0CEkQ8wIwBg

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/6wpkcts

Andy

 

[Jerry]

"Andy Champ" <no.way@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:S82dnQJnPcJlJpnSnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
: On 04/01/2012 13:14, Jerry wrote:
: > On the slip side, the BS 1363 design can be very difficult to
: > insert/remove, the force needed can be quite high (especially
for
: > the elderly or those with muscular problems), thus a risk of
the
: > terminals making poor contact, also because (as you say)
there is
: > less risk of a BS1363 plug being pulled out accidentally two
: > other risks are present, should the lead become stranded the
lead
: > is damaged/parts company with the internal connections in
either
: > plug or appliance and more importantly should electrocution
occur
: > it is a dammed sight harder to purposely pull the appliance
lead
: > out of the socket from a distance.
:
:
http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=easy+plug&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GBfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=9928575363582767211&sa=X&ei=orsET_7YK4uyhAeioZjKAQ&ved=0CEkQ8wIwBg
:

URL relates to a "Thermoplasic moulding 13 AMP Fused Easy pull
handle BS 1363 IP20 Rated Grip for easy removal of plug from
socket"

....and?........

That's product is great for someone with a problem with their
finger-grip, it does nothing to help those with muscular
problems, nor does it provide a solution to the other two issues
I mentioned relating to flex damage from being strained and
emergency disconnection (although if the flex was cable tied to
the handle...).
--
Regards, Jerry.

 

[Terry Casey]

In article <S82dnQJnPcJlJpnSnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>,
no.way@nospam.invalid says...

On 04/01/2012 13:14, Jerry wrote:
On the slip side, the BS 1363 design can be very difficult to
insert/remove, the force needed can be quite high (especially for
the elderly or those with muscular problems), thus a risk of the
terminals making poor contact, also because (as you say) there is
less risk of a BS1363 plug being pulled out accidentally two
other risks are present, should the lead become stranded the lead
is damaged/parts company with the internal connections in either
plug or appliance and more importantly should electrocution occur
it is a dammed sight harder to purposely pull the appliance lead
out of the socket from a distance.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=easy+plug&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GBfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=9928575363582767211&sa=X&ei=orsET_7YK4uyhAeioZjKAQ&ved=0CEkQ8wIwBg

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/6wpkcts

Andy

Google doesn't help with short links, does it?

I got it down to this, but that's the best I can do ...!

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?gl=uk&hl=en&cid=
9928575363582767211&q=easy%20plug

I must have got it confused though because I assume '&cid' means
customer ID and they didn't spot that the request came from someone
else!

--

Terry

 

[Don Pearce]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 21:22:30 -0000, Terry Casey
<k.type@example.invalid> wrote:

In article <S82dnQJnPcJlJpnSnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>,
no.way@nospam.invalid says...

On 04/01/2012 13:14, Jerry wrote:
On the slip side, the BS 1363 design can be very difficult to
insert/remove, the force needed can be quite high (especially for
the elderly or those with muscular problems), thus a risk of the
terminals making poor contact, also because (as you say) there is
less risk of a BS1363 plug being pulled out accidentally two
other risks are present, should the lead become stranded the lead
is damaged/parts company with the internal connections in either
plug or appliance and more importantly should electrocution occur
it is a dammed sight harder to purposely pull the appliance lead
out of the socket from a distance.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=easy+plug&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GBfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=9928575363582767211&sa=X&ei=orsET_7YK4uyhAeioZjKAQ&ved=0CEkQ8wIwBg

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/6wpkcts

Andy

Google doesn't help with short links, does it?

I got it down to this, but that's the best I can do ...!

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?gl=uk&hl=en&cid=
9928575363582767211&q=easy%20plug

I must have got it confused though because I assume '&cid' means
customer ID and they didn't spot that the request came from someone
else!

Wow, those prices aren't pretty. I believe these things are available
on a sort of prescription basis for the elderly and people with
arthritis.

d

 

[David Looser]

"Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.spam.com> wrote

The other issue is that continental electricians don't seem to have any
concept of live and neutral. BS4343 outlets are very clearly marked L and
N on both plug or socket but my experience (caravanning, mainly in France)
is that more are reverse wired than correctly wired. Perhaps it is because
(from what I have seen) most Euro MCB's are dual pole and will break both
both conductors under fault conditions (remember most Euro wiring is
radial)

Not sure I see the relevance of radial circuits to two-pole MCBs. Fusing in
the UK used to be two-pole many years ago, but neutral fusing was dropped
because it was possible for the neutral fuse only to fail, leaving the
circuit inoperative yet still live. Whilst obviously with MCBs it would be
possible to return to two-pole isolation I'm not sure that I see the
benefit. Nor, presumably, do the committee who write BS7671.

so polarity at the point of delivery is largely academic.

I disagree. In my view polarity at the point of delivery can be important
(depending on appliance) regardless of the number of poles in the MCB.

I purchased a 10A two-pole MCB (LeGrand) for my caravan in a French DIY
shed for less than a 6A single pole from a UK wholesaler.

Single-pole MCBs to BS7671 (any current rating) cost around Ł2-Ł3, how much
less than that was this LeGrand 2-pole job?

Is there any wonder we have to take more steps in our

protection chain than they do?

What do mean by "more steps" and what has that to do with the price of MCBs?

David.

 

[Andy Burns]

Terry Casey wrote:

Andy Burns <usenet.aug2009@adslpipe.co.uk> says...

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/retrak-eucablestar-retractable-universal-notebook-cable-11083932-pdt.html

A bit late in the day, perhaps, with so many laptops now using earthed
'clover leaf' connectors?

I must admit I much prefer the figure-of-eight connector.

The mains charger that was supplied with my Dell laptop had a
cloverleaf, but I purchased the Dell travel charger which is 1) much
smaller and lighter, 2) can run from 12V or 110-240V and 3) uses a
figure-of-8 connector.

Ł15 quid is a bit steep, but I picked up one anyway, works nicely, I
think I will end up discarding the retracting reel, it adds too much bulk.

 

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 18:42:22 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John)
<G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some years ago there

It is far too big for most of the devices currently on it, yes - and
also, the three ratings for the matching fuse (BS1362) widely available
are far too high: 3, 5, and 13A. (Even 1A - which you _can_ get in
BS1362, but you don't half have to hunt for it

Huh? RS have 1,2,3,5,7,10,13 readily available. This is not what
I'd call "half having to hunt for".

- is too high for most
electronic appliances.) IMO, the fact that the plugs are fused actually
gives a _false_ sense of security, _because_ the fuse ratings are so
high; all that fuse can effectively protect is the mains lead (or power
cord, as it's called in US) itself.

The fuse is only *designed* to protect the mains lead, not the device to
which the lead is connected. That's what the device's internal fuse is for.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <je21cf$7t4$1@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

Because it can get accidentally switched off due to stuff being
moved or pushed to the back of the cupboard!

You keep your fridge in a cupboard?

Stick some gaffer tape over the switch.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Roderick Stewart]

In article <MPG.296ebe3542df9f839896d9@news.eternal-september.org>, Terry Casey
wrote:

On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.


I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you implying that it is no
longer legal in the UK to supply equipment with twin flex (and matching
2-pole connector)?

I wasn't implying anything at all about what's legal, because I don't know, but
I do know that if you want to plug an electrical appliance into a wall socket
in the UK, it needs to have a 3 pin UK plug on it. Therefore if they put any
other kind of plug on it, you'd have to use an adaptor.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

 

[Don Pearce]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:51:51 -0000, Terry Casey
<k.type@example.invalid> wrote:

In article <VA.00000bea.008008a9@escapetime.removethisbit.myzen.co.uk>,
rjfs@escapetime.removethisbit.myzen.co.uk says...

In article <MPG.296e4b1c9094dfb59896d1@news.eternal-september.org>, Terry
Casey wrote:
On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.


I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you implying that it is no
longer legal in the UK to supply equipment with twin flex (and matching
2-pole connector)?

Nothing to do with legality, just practicability. If you want to sell
goods in the UK market, it is a pretty good idea to supply them with a
UK mains plug. Adaptors are for when you travel, not at home. One
current exception is mains-powered shavers (only a few left now), that
use a two-pin plug specifically designed for an isolated bathroom
connector.

A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring has in
one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin socket.

d

 

[André Coutanche]

Don Pearce wrote:

A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring has in
one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin socket.

The Landmark Trust still use these extensively, including in newly restored
properties. They're on the lighting circuit, I was told.

André Coutanche

 

[Jerry]

"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.removethisbit.myzen.co.uk>
wrote in message
news:VA.00000beb.003dd401@escapetime.removethisbit.myzen.co.uk...
: In article
<MPG.296ebe3542df9f839896d9@news.eternal-september.org>, Terry
Casey
: wrote:
: > > > On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started
supplying their
: > > > fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?
: > >
: > > Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK,
you'd need to
: > > buy an adaptor as well.
: > >
: >
: > I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you implying that it
is no
: > longer legal in the UK to supply equipment with twin flex
(and matching
: > 2-pole connector)?
:
: I wasn't implying anything at all about what's legal, because I
don't know, but
: I do know that if you want to plug an electrical appliance into
a wall socket
: in the UK, it needs to have a 3 pin UK plug on it. Therefore if
they put any
: other kind of plug on it, you'd have to use an adaptor.
:

Except Terry was talking about the *female* plug on the end of
the power lead that is inserted into the PSU... The plug that is
inserted into the wall socket, AIUI, those have and will always
be local to the official area of sale - otherwise, in your own
words, an adapter would be required. Duh! :~)
--
Regards, Jerry.