Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems

[Jerry]

"David Looser" <david.looser@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9osdhoF80aU1@mid.individual.net...

<snip>
: Indeed I was. My comments were in the context of Jerry's
assertion that
: screws, bolts, metal rod etc. are commonly found instead of
fuses in BS1361

Did I say commonly found, perhaps you would care to point out
were I said so, IIRC I said it is possible. Going on to say that
it is far more difficult for a like minded person to bridge out a
breaker at the panel.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <9osdhoF80aU1@mid.individual.net>,
David Looser <david.looser@btinternet.com> wrote:

BTW did anyone here ever come across the alternative design for a UK
fused plug? I only met one once, it had round pins and looked fairly
similar to the old 15A plug, but the live pin *was* the fuse. The fuse
had a threaded stud on one end and simply screwed into the face of the
plug to form the live pin. I guess it was a different designer's take
on the same design brief that lead to the BS1361 plug. At least if we
had gone with that design it would have been much harder to bypass the
fuse!

One of the alternatives to the now standard 13 amp plug which was around
from about the start of the final ring circuit. Made by D&S and used by
some councils in their estates. They love to be different. ;-)

Used by the BBC too from about the mid '50s for a couple of decades for
the technical supply in studios etc. To prevent accidental use for none
technical equipment.

They were a horrible design. The fuse could work loose, and remain
sticking out of the socket when the plug was removed. They also had a very
poor cable clamp - merely a rubber grommet.

--
*If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Jerry]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:525a417bc5dave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <9oqfn7Fd5pU1@mid.individual.net>,
: David Looser <david.looser@btinternet.com> wrote:
: > For the last 20 years I have PAT tested every mains
electrical item
: > submitted to a charity auction that is held twice a year in
the village
: > where I live. In that time I met a fair few horrors: flexes
so damaged
: > that the bare live wire shows through, a standard lamp (with
a brass
: > fitting) wired up with two-core bell-wire, flexes extended
using a bit
: > of choc-block wrapped in insulating tape, broken plugs,
mis-wired
: > plugs, plugs with the cord-grip either missing or incorrectly
used etc.
: > But I've only ever had one example of a plug with anything
other than a
: > BS1362 fuse in it, and that had a few turns of 5A fuse-wire
wrapped
: > round the prongs of the fuse-holder. So I don't buy this idea
that
: > people are putting screws, bolts or bits of metal rod into
plugs in any
: > significant numbers at all. Its *so* much easier to nick a
fuse from
: > another appliance than to start looking for bits of metal
that will fit!
:
: Indeed. As I said, how many homes will have a plug in appliance
that draws
: more than 13 amps so needs the fuse shorted out?

Nothing what so ever to do with an appliance needing more than
13amps, that is something you introduced in an attempt to troll,
it's everything to do with the appliance fuse blowing at 5pm on a
Sunday and there being no replacement - husband is being screamed
at by SWMBO because she wants to get the washing, hovering or
what ever done so hubby goes off in search of something - of
course those with common sense will rob Peter to pay Paul.

If such problems didn't occur why the need for 17th edition or
PAT testing (or at least certain elements)?... But hang on, as
the Champaign socialist Dave is, he probably think such regs are
in place as some form of job creation exercise, but then wasn't
that part of the thinking by "Two Jags" when he headed up the
introduction of the needless Part P to the UK building regs?...

 

[Jerry]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:52592dfd07dave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <jg3h6u$a7g$2@dont-email.me>,
: Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
: > : 'The same hardware' as used for radial circuits is not
suitable
: > for final
: > : ring circuits. As I keep saying, you need to learn some
: > fundamentals
: > : instead of making a fool of yourself.
: > :
:
: > Hmm, if correct then every spur off a ring circuit is
breaking
: > the regs!
:
: You obviously haven't read them. And certainly don't understand
the basics.
:

So you keep saying Pet, so do tell us all the diffeance between a
BS1363 socket outlet and a, err, BS 1363 socket outlet?

But in reality it is you who is the one that doesn't seem to
understand the regs, you are the one who is obviously getting
mixed up between a permitted socket outlet on a radial circuit
that doesn't need to have 'additional protection' (RCDs) and
those sockets installed on a ring circuit that should have
'additional protection' (RCDs), apart from the protection at the
panel the hardware is the same (bar some required labelling that
can be added upon installation).

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <9osdhoF80aU1@mid.individual.net>, David Looser
<david.looser@btinternet.com> writes

BTW did anyone here ever come across the alternative design for a UK fused
plug? I only met one once, it had round pins and looked fairly similar to
the old 15A plug, but the live pin *was* the fuse.

'Waco' or 'Wago' plug, I think. The problem was that the live pin-cum-
fuse tended to unscrew from the plug body and stay in the socket when
the plug was pulled. Not exactly safe...

The fuse had a threaded
stud on one end and simply screwed into the face of the plug to form the
live pin.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.lyjda42.pminews@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
Liquorice <allsortsnotthisbit@howhill.co.uk> writes

Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the
refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse
board if each was a radial...

Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans
themselves

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/ElectricalPanel.jpg

<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/EEUU%28GE%29Breakerp
anelInnards.jpg>


--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[Jerry]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:52592e3430dave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <jg3h6u$a7g$3@dont-email.me>,
: Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
: > You still can run more that three 3Kw electric fires off each
: > ring circuit, thus how many of these sockets are for power
and
: > how many are basically going to be over spec floor/table
lighting
: > points[1]?
:
: All you have in your place is electric fires and table lamps?
Explains it
: all.
:

Only an idiot or a troll would take what I said in such a way,
anyone with a brain cell would have understood that I was
commenting on total loading of each ring circuit (of course you
needed to cut the context to make your trolling work).

Anyway, even if one does take what I said literally, it would be
very common should a central heating fault occur for just about
any family household to wish to use such a number and rating of
electric fire, especially in the sort of weather the UK had last
winter and with is the norm in Canada and the northern states of
the US. Easy enough to do with radial circuits, a pain (if not
impossible) to do so with ring circuits if the diversification
calculations have not taken such a need into account with the
ring circuit(s) were being installed.

But then perhaps it is Plowman who lives in the one room hovel,
and thus would never (ever) have any need for more than one
electric fire...

 

[tony sayer]

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.lypvqj0.pminews@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
Liquorice <allsortsnotthisbit@howhill.co.uk> scribeth thus

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:32:50 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into
the
refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva
fuse
board if each was a radial... They are split over four rings as it
is.

Are you really that stupid, or do you just play a fool on Usenet?
The US National Electrical Code is online. It goes into great detail
about what can and can not be done. Read it, and see if you can learn
anything.

Can't be arsed to read the regs of a forgien country, we have enough
of our own. You are over there and presumably know them so how many
breakers would be required for 38 double sockets in the US?

Anyone here ever known of a problem or fire with a UK ring main other
then stupid people doing really stupid things like they could do on ANY
system?..

I've never come across one ever in the last 50 odd years...
--
Tony Sayer

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Paul Ratcliffe" <abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote in message
news:slrnjigv32.84r.abuse@news.pr.network...

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:32:50 -0500, Michael A. Terrell
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:40:57 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The NEC requires an outlet every 10 feet along a wall, and all
materials have to be UL approved. Now for your next lies?

Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the
refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse
board if each was a radial... They are split over four rings as it
is.


Are you really that stupid, or do you just play a fool on Usenet?
The US National Electrical Code is online. It goes into great detail
about what can and can not be done. Read it, and see if you can learn
anything.

Fuck off Yank. Patronising bastards aren't you?

As a Yank, I agree with you, Paul. Asking someone to read the US National
Electrical Code in order to answer their own casual questions is like asking
them to read the U.S. Tax code for the same purpose. If you understand even
the basics about either, you are most likely a highly trained professional.

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Jerry" <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote in message
news:jgbddj$hjs$1@dont-email.me...

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:52592d9133dave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <jg3h6t$a7g$1@dont-email.me>,
: Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
: > Yes pet, a 15amp breaker has the same rating as 30amp breaker
if
: > you say so... One is far more likely to have an appliance
lead
: > that is rated at 15A, even for appliances that have internal
1amp
: > fuses, rather than such an appliance having a lead that one
could
: > run a domestic -four ring, grill and oven- cooker off...
:
: Thanks for confirming we can add flex ratings to the things you
know
: nothing about.
:

Yes of course pet! Plowman, you really should stop talking about
your own failing all the time, if you really do think that you
can run a 3Kw(+) electric cooker off a 200w lighting cable...

You can do that, just not for long! ;-)

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <M7SdnX9rcabmurTSnZ2dnUVZ8iydnZ2d@bt.com>,
Ron <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote:

The UK '13amp' plug top accepts fuses rated to suit the appliance. 13
amps is the maximum.

Strictly speaking the fuse is only to protect the flex. If the appliance
itself needs to be protected it will have its own fuse or thermal circuit
breaker, etc. Ie the same as if fed from an unfused plug as in most
countries.

You may have noticed that flex sizes have become more uniform recently -
all are now capable of blowing a 13 amps fuse in the plug regardless in
event of a short. As it seems using the correct fuse in a plug is beyond
most.

--
*He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[JW]

On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:40:58 +0000 Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk>
wrote in Message id: <MHebmdBaLTKPFwHs@jasper.org.uk>:

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.lyjda42.pminews@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
Liquorice <allsortsnotthisbit@howhill.co.uk> writes


Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the
refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse
board if each was a radial...

Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans
themselves

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/ElectricalPanel.jpg

Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room.

 

[Ron]

On 01/02/2012 13:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article<M7SdnX9rcabmurTSnZ2dnUVZ8iydnZ2d@bt.com>,
Ron<ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote:
The UK '13amp' plug top accepts fuses rated to suit the appliance. 13
amps is the maximum.

Strictly speaking the fuse is only to protect the flex. If the appliance
itself needs to be protected it will have its own fuse or thermal circuit
breaker, etc. Ie the same as if fed from an unfused plug as in most
countries.

You may have noticed that flex sizes have become more uniform recently -
all are now capable of blowing a 13 amps fuse in the plug regardless in
event of a short. As it seems using the correct fuse in a plug is beyond
most.

I suspect that's because the average person goes into a shop and buys

a mains plug for his (say) desk lamp. He gets it home to find it's
fitted with 13 amp fuse, either through not knowing any better or just
not having any 1 amp, 2 amp or 5amp fuses in the house, fits the plug
anyway.

It's still not really a problem because the lamps mains cable is almost
certainly heavy enough to blow a 13 amp fuse if there's a dead short.
It's pretty academic anyway as these days all domestic appliances in the
UK are supposed to be supplied with a fitted plugtop with the
(hopefully)correct fuse.

Comparing the US and the UK domestic mains electricity installations is
pointless - as is arguing about them. (IMHO)

Ron

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jgbddj$hjs$1@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:52592d9133dave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <jg3h6t$a7g$1@dont-email.me>,
: Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
: > Yes pet, a 15amp breaker has the same rating as 30amp breaker
if
: > you say so... One is far more likely to have an appliance
lead
: > that is rated at 15A, even for appliances that have internal
1amp
: > fuses, rather than such an appliance having a lead that one
could
: > run a domestic -four ring, grill and oven- cooker off...
:
: Thanks for confirming we can add flex ratings to the things you
know
: nothing about.
:

Yes of course pet! Plowman, you really should stop talking about
your own failing all the time, if you really do think that you
can run a 3Kw(+) electric cooker off a 200w lighting cable...

Isn't that what you do, with a nail for the fuse?

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jgbddj$hjs$2@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

: You are allowed to add spurs within the regs, but why is it so
much more
: difficult to simply add a socket properly to the ring?
:

Because it adds an extra mechanical joint to the that is not
necessary to the circuit, more than likely hidden

Only in your twisted mind.

--
*Of course I'm against sin; I'm against anything that I'm too old to enjoy.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jgbddm$hjs$8@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

"David Looser" <david.looser@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9oqfn7Fd5pU1@mid.individual.net...

snip
: [because I have never seen such faults]
: I don't buy this idea that people are putting screws, bolts or
bits of metal
: rod into plugs in any significant numbers at all. Its *so* much
easier to
: nick a fuse from another appliance than to start looking for
bits of metal
: that will fit!
:

As others have pointed out in this thread, not just bits of bolts
or screws, simple (and readily available) kitchen foil, or bits
of copper wire.

By your rational, because you (personally, as likely as not) have
never known anyone be killed by electrocution there can't be any
risk of electrocution?

Well, you still appear to be here despite using all these weird and
wonderful things instead of fuses?

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jgbddl$hjs$5@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

: Wonder how you know all this? Just who ever wants to draw more
than 13
: amps from a socket anyway?

I'm saying that is it possible, not that someone wants to do so,
but then you seem more interested in the troll rather than
actually defending your beloved ring circuits...

It's a genuine question. What is it likely someone possesses which draws
more than 13 amps and comes with a 13 amp plug - necessitating replacing
the 13 amp fuse with a nail?
Perhaps the obvious one would be an extension lead with multiple socket
outlets. But then that can be overloaded with your favourite radials too.

:
: Oh yes - I remember. You used to work in a garage and probably
did just
: that since because it didn't have the correct wiring installed.

I seem to remember that you used to make TV programmes...

I'm retired. Why are you not working?

: Not everyone is as stupid as you Jerry.
:

You really are a stupid troll, understanding the risks is not the
same as practicing such risks, by your logic all child protection
officers are child abusers!

You just have a bee in your bonnet which simply isn't born out by
statistics after some 60 years of final ring circuits. It is an extremely
safe, versatile and economic design. Far better than the alternatives.
When used where it is designed for.

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jgbddn$hjs$10@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

Nothing what so ever to do with an appliance needing more than
13amps, that is something you introduced in an attempt to troll,
it's everything to do with the appliance fuse blowing at 5pm on a
Sunday and there being no replacement - husband is being screamed
at by SWMBO because she wants to get the washing, hovering or
what ever done so hubby goes off in search of something - of
course those with common sense will rob Peter to pay Paul.

Most home in the UK will have many many devices fitted with 13 amp plugs,
and many of those also with 13 amp fuses.

It would take a true idiot to spend time cutting a nail or whatever to fit
rather than taking the fuse from one of those other devices.

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jgbddn$hjs$11@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:52592dfd07dave@davenoise.co.uk...
: In article <jg3h6u$a7g$2@dont-email.me>,
: Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
: > : 'The same hardware' as used for radial circuits is not
suitable
: > for final
: > : ring circuits. As I keep saying, you need to learn some
: > fundamentals
: > : instead of making a fool of yourself.
: > :
:
: > Hmm, if correct then every spur off a ring circuit is
breaking
: > the regs!
:
: You obviously haven't read them. And certainly don't understand
the basics.
:

So you keep saying Pet, so do tell us all the diffeance between a
BS1363 socket outlet and a, err, BS 1363 socket outlet?

I was referring to the difference between a radial circuit and a spur.
Which obviously escapes you.

You can have unlimited sockets on a spur from a ring - provided that spur
is protected by an FCU.

--
*If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <lthii7dcg5entra6s9ja2ra2pr5tgbmfa3@4ax.com>, JW
<none@dev.null> writes

Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room.

What makes you think we do?

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")