Why do circuit breakers go up for on and down for off?...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 11:22:42 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 08/03/2023 06:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 11:21:43 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 27/02/2023 20:55, NY wrote:

Exactly. It\'s weird that they survived for so long without words to
differentiate colours which most of use see as being different. The
various colours at the blue end of the rainbow (blue, indigo, violet)
are not as easy to differentiate, and I can understand *those* being
thought of as various shades of blue, but red, orange, yellow, green,
blue are all colours that are fairly distinct and deserve individual
names.

Be careful of that \"most of us\".

Almost everyone can tell blue from red or green. Telling red from green
though affects about 1 in 12 men in the UK (other races may vary).

It\'s not 1 in 12. I\'ve only ever known ONE person who was red/green
colour blind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Epidemiology
\" In individuals with Northern European ancestry, as many as 8 percent
of men and 0.4 percent of women experience congenital color deficiency.\"

Maybe you only know 12 people.

I\'d say I\'ve known (in my 47 years) 250 people well enough for them to have told me about their colour blindness. 1 in 250 is not 1 in 12.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 15:07:21 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 11:22:42 +0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/03/2023 06:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 11:21:43 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 27/02/2023 20:55, NY wrote:

Exactly. It\'s weird that they survived for so long without words to
differentiate colours which most of use see as being different. The
various colours at the blue end of the rainbow (blue, indigo, violet)
are not as easy to differentiate, and I can understand *those* being
thought of as various shades of blue, but red, orange, yellow, green,
blue are all colours that are fairly distinct and deserve individual
names.

Be careful of that \"most of us\".

Almost everyone can tell blue from red or green. Telling red from green
though affects about 1 in 12 men in the UK (other races may vary).

It\'s not 1 in 12. I\'ve only ever known ONE person who was red/green
colour blind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Epidemiology
\" In individuals with Northern European ancestry, as many as 8 percent
of men and 0.4 percent of women experience congenital color deficiency.\"

Maybe you only know 12 people.

Or maybe he doesn\'t test all the people he knows.

People tend to mention it, especially when they do something embarassing because of their defect.

Some cultures, especially asians, like bright primary colors. That
could well be genetic.

Are you saying asians have better eyesight? They certainly seem more advanced than us in most ways.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 11:33:34 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 08/03/2023 06:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 17:28:35 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 28/02/2023 15:55, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 13:39:53 +0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 27/02/2023 20:55, NY wrote:
\"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
newsp.101j6ficmvhs6z@ryzen.home...

So they couldn\'t explain the difference in colour of a lettuce and
the
sky? WTF?

Exactly. It\'s weird that they survived for so long without words to
differentiate colours which most of use see as being different. The
various colours at the blue end of the rainbow (blue, indigo, violet)
are not as easy to differentiate, and I can understand *those* being
thought of as various shades of blue, but red, orange, yellow, green,
blue are all colours that are fairly distinct and deserve
individual names.

Who decide what are distinct colours anyway? To my way of thinking,
there are six /distinct/ colours in the spectrum, red, orange, yellow,
green, blue and violet.

Indigo was added by Newton to make it up to seven, which he regarded as
a magic number.

Human cone cells come in three wavelengths, roughly r-g-b, so if we
name more colors it\'s arbitrary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell

From the diagram on the right, it\'s more like blue, greeny-yellow and
yellow if you measure the sensitivities at different frequencies.

I call bullshit. If the lowest frequency detector was yellow, how do we
see red? And why does the RGB system on TVs work so well?

(a) The frequencies represent the peaks of the curves. You will see from
the diagram that both of the yellow sensitive cones have tails that
extend well into the red. We see red by comparing the relative levels of
the two. People with only one type of yellow cone can\'t do this, which
is why they can\'t tell red from green.

This says it\'s RGB:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/eye-cones-5088699

This says it\'s YGV, yet the graph shows the V peaking at a colour which isn\'t even on the screen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell

I\'m gonna go with the long held belief it\'s red green and blue.

(b) I suspect that any three well separated colours would work. Maybe
RGB was chosen as phosphors and dyes for those colours are available, or
maybe because \"famous scientist\" Maxwell said that we see red, blue and
green.

More likely everyone\'s eye is different and without actually dismantling your eye we can\'t tell. It would explain why some people say colours \"clash\" and others don\'t. Or maybe that\'s just women being stupid, a man never says a colour clashes - how could it? They\'re just different colours. They don\'t react with each other like chemicals in a test tube!

We can perceive a lot more colours by comparing the relative signals
from the different cones.

I wonder why women tend to be more colour fussy? Are they being fussy
or accurate?

How we name them is up to us, according to how important they are.

Retinas vary a lot between individuals too, especially males.

Many (mostly male) humans have only two kinds of cones: blue and yellow,
which is what most mammals have.

It\'s nowhere near \"many\".

My other post links to the Wiki article on colour blindness. It\'s about 8%

Not here, maybe varies per country.

Males with just the two kinds of cones (referred to a red/green
colour-blind) can see about three distinct colours in the spectrum
instead of six.

Females sometimes have 4.

Showoffs.

Except if you ask them to show off their tits, they won\'t take it as a compliment. Have you ever known a guy say \"how dare you want to see my penis!\"?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 15:13:21 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 11:33:34 +0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/03/2023 06:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 17:28:35 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 28/02/2023 15:55, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 13:39:53 +0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 27/02/2023 20:55, NY wrote:
\"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
newsp.101j6ficmvhs6z@ryzen.home...

So they couldn\'t explain the difference in colour of a lettuce and
the
sky? WTF?

Exactly. It\'s weird that they survived for so long without words to
differentiate colours which most of use see as being different. The
various colours at the blue end of the rainbow (blue, indigo, violet)
are not as easy to differentiate, and I can understand *those* being
thought of as various shades of blue, but red, orange, yellow, green,
blue are all colours that are fairly distinct and deserve
individual names.

Who decide what are distinct colours anyway? To my way of thinking,
there are six /distinct/ colours in the spectrum, red, orange, yellow,
green, blue and violet.

Indigo was added by Newton to make it up to seven, which he regarded as
a magic number.

Human cone cells come in three wavelengths, roughly r-g-b, so if we
name more colors it\'s arbitrary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell

From the diagram on the right, it\'s more like blue, greeny-yellow and
yellow if you measure the sensitivities at different frequencies.

I call bullshit. If the lowest frequency detector was yellow, how do we
see red? And why does the RGB system on TVs work so well?

(a) The frequencies represent the peaks of the curves. You will see from
the diagram that both of the yellow sensitive cones have tails that
extend well into the red. We see red by comparing the relative levels of
the two. People with only one type of yellow cone can\'t do this, which
is why they can\'t tell red from green.

(b) I suspect that any three well separated colours would work. Maybe
RGB was chosen as phosphors and dyes for those colours are available, or
maybe because \"famous scientist\" Maxwell said that we see red, blue and
green.

We can perceive a lot more colours by comparing the relative signals
from the different cones.

I wonder why women tend to be more colour fussy? Are they being fussy
or accurate?

How we name them is up to us, according to how important they are.

Retinas vary a lot between individuals too, especially males.

Many (mostly male) humans have only two kinds of cones: blue and yellow,
which is what most mammals have.

It\'s nowhere near \"many\".

My other post links to the Wiki article on colour blindness. It\'s about 8%

Males with just the two kinds of cones (referred to a red/green
colour-blind) can see about three distinct colours in the spectrum
instead of six.

Females sometimes have 4.

Showoffs.

There are clearly differences in male/female color vision.

Or attitude.

> There are other differences, which is nice.

And some not so nice.

Hang on! The lesbians^W feminists claim they\'re equal, so their vision must be the same, along with their ability to run a race, so why is the Olympics sexist? Equal when it suits them more like.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 11:33:34 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 08/03/2023 06:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 17:28:35 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 28/02/2023 15:55, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 13:39:53 +0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 27/02/2023 20:55, NY wrote:
\"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
newsp.101j6ficmvhs6z@ryzen.home...

So they couldn\'t explain the difference in colour of a lettuce and
the
sky? WTF?

Exactly. It\'s weird that they survived for so long without words to
differentiate colours which most of use see as being different. The
various colours at the blue end of the rainbow (blue, indigo, violet)
are not as easy to differentiate, and I can understand *those* being
thought of as various shades of blue, but red, orange, yellow, green,
blue are all colours that are fairly distinct and deserve
individual names.

Who decide what are distinct colours anyway? To my way of thinking,
there are six /distinct/ colours in the spectrum, red, orange, yellow,
green, blue and violet.

Indigo was added by Newton to make it up to seven, which he regarded as
a magic number.

Human cone cells come in three wavelengths, roughly r-g-b, so if we
name more colors it\'s arbitrary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell

From the diagram on the right, it\'s more like blue, greeny-yellow and
yellow if you measure the sensitivities at different frequencies.

I call bullshit. If the lowest frequency detector was yellow, how do we
see red? And why does the RGB system on TVs work so well?

(a) The frequencies represent the peaks of the curves. You will see from
the diagram that both of the yellow sensitive cones have tails that
extend well into the red. We see red by comparing the relative levels of
the two. People with only one type of yellow cone can\'t do this, which
is why they can\'t tell red from green.

Look at this graph:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK11059/figure/A766/?report=objectonly

Look at the bright red. It\'s off the scale for even the 559nm cone. Yet red is easy to see and very vivid. The graph is obviously wrong, if the graph was correct, we shouldn\'t be able to pick up red much at all.

Think about what colours on that graph are the most prominent. I see 5. Purple, blue, green, yellow, red. So I\'d say either:

We have 5 cones, purple, blue, green, yellow, red - but I\'m sure doctors would notice we had 5.

We have 3 cones, purple, green, red. The 5 vivid colours I mentioned above are when we either see it mostly with one cone, or equally with 2 cones.

Having cones where the graph shows them doesn\'t make any sense.

 

[tony sayer]

In article <op.11yr4xc1mvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
<CK1@nospam.com> scribeth thus

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 13:57:51 -0000, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:

You will deserve what happens next.

Very unlikely for all those things to happen at once. I didn\'t get
vaccinated
either,


I never wear a seatbelt,



I remember as a lad going to nick a few light bulbs from cars at Ron
Charlton\'s scrapyard. Whilst going about that we noticed the number of
cars that had very bent steering wheels, this i was told was because
the drivers having hit most anything their body flew forward and their
chest impacted the wheel and bent it, and no way could we bend it back.

Ron\'s old boy there said that most all the drivers in that sort of
impact didn\'t survive

Then came a seatbelt\'s and that became a thing of the past once people
started using them and we got round the stupidity of \"its better to be
thrown clear of the car you know\" idiocy.

I know someone who\'s an ex A&E consultant he\'ll give you chapter and
verse on car injuries;!...

You\'re missing one important thing - likelihood. At what chance fo death would
you decide to be safe? The answer is different for everyone.

Well he doesn\'t get much choice in who he treats, be that the person who
caused the s accident or the innocent ones affected.

I know a police man they just love those calls when they have to tell
the wife that their husband, daughter, son, relative won\'t be coming
home ever again.


--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

 

[tony sayer]

In article <op.11vrkpe3mvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
<CK1@nospam.com> scribeth thus

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 20:55:29 -0000, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:

It is, however, their business if the electrical problem
causes a fire that burns down half the town, or takes out
a condominium project or flats.

An RCD does not prevent fire or shorting the power source. It is only
there to protect someone in your own house from a shock. Please learn
what the different devices actually do before making such a stupid
statement.

It can prevent a fire if the fault is a resistance that heats
sufficiently connected accidentally between live and earth, at the metal
chassis, which has not sufficient current to blow the fuse.

just an example.

An example pulled out of thin air which will probably never happen. Anything
producing enough heat should blow the fuse anyway, since anything less than
that
is the intended consumption of the appliance.

And if we didn\'t earth the chassis of everything so much would be better.
Like
touching a live wouldn\'t conduct through your leg to the earthed washing
machine. I de-earthed my microwave incase my pet parrot chewed the flex
while
stood on the microwave.

Apparently those namby pamby ELCBs don\'t like microwaves, since they
deliberately leak to earth. At my work, someone had put an ELCB for a large
section of the building, and a single microwave tripped it. The microwave
was
functioning just fine, but this stupid breaker kept cutting power to a large
number of offices. They removed it.

Why do people keep changing the names? It was always Earth Leakage Circuit
Breaker. Now we have RCD and GFCI. WTF? They mean the same thing! Stuff
goes
to earth and it switches off.

I suggest you read up on how a RCD Residual Current Device works, ELCB
are rather olde hat now.

They\'re identical, there has only ever been one way of measuring it. Compare
live and neutral. They just keep changing the name for marketing purposes.

An RCD measures the current flowing on in one wire and that going out on
the other as long as they are in balance, then all fine.

However if they are not then they will trip. That is caused by some
current leaking to earth somewhere that could be a simple leakage fault
such as a heating element breaking down or it could be through your body
not good!

Current going through your body gives you a fright and nothing more. I\'ve had
nine 240V shocks in my life, about half of them across my whole body. Just
makes you jump. Only the weak die off, which is a good thing, future
generations will be stronger. Our bodies need to learn to handle stuff we use
every day.

Jesus Christ. So your a scaly skinned lizard then?, whoda thunk that!...

Its simply stupid to un-earth things like microwaves and the like

I unearthed mine because if you\'re touching the chassis of the microwave, you\'re
now much more susceptible to touching a live. Normally, touching only something
live, you get a small tingle from capacitance of your body. But if you\'re
earthed, far more dangerous. Especially to my parrot who chews cables.

Got any children there at all?. Hope not.

If nothing in your house was earthed, you could never get a shock, unless you
have no floor and live (livv, not lyve, I hate English) on the ground.

Well all that non conductive water is in plastic pipes and taps then;?..

what if they developed a fault with current was leaking to the metalwork of
the unit that would then be live and is then capable if a shock not pleasant!

You touch it, feel a tingle, then fix it.

i had one once very very painful and I couldn\'t let go thats the worst part
this was in pre RCD days!

Of course you can let go. You do have control of your own body right? You have
a brain in there somewhere which can override things?

Christ sakes have you ever had your hand round a rung of a metal ladder
in soft earth and the other hand around a metal cased drill? Course with
your scaly skin that wouldn\'t be a problem then;?..

It is possible for a large number of PC\'s on one ring main to cause a
trip to go but it has to be quite a lot as they have capacitors in them
which are from live to earth and will introduce some leakage usually
much less then that the 30 ma RCD is designed to trip at.

Had that at a school I worked at. 20 PCs, for some reason if you switched them
all on at once (as a class of kids tends to do). I thought the caps from live
to earth were always connected?

The electrician refused to put less sensitive breakers in. He claimed the
regulations stated schools must have more sensitive breakers than the houses
where those very same kids live! I bought less sensitive breakers on Ebay with
my own money, swapped them over, then sold the sensitive ones. The loss in Ebay
fees and postage was approximately equal to the gain of the sensitive ones
costing more. Problem solved.

A teacher challenged me on it, so I persuaded a boy to test it in front of the
class. Plug with wire, exposed live, hold that. Touch the earthed heater.
Tripped, he didn\'t even say ouch.

30 or 100 ma ones?..
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

 

[Brian Gregory]

On 11/02/2023 15:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 11/02/2023 12:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-02-11 12:31, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 11:16:07 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/02/2023 10:45, SteveW wrote:
On 11/02/2023 09:34, Brian Gaff wrote:
I\'m sure the modern ones will work any way around you wanted. If you
don\'t
like it simply do a head stand before you change them.

My main question, however is why are some breakers so sensitive
they trip
more often than others?
  I think they are way too complex now with earth leakage as well
as just
looking for overloads.

I used to have a problem with random tripping of the whole house RCD.
Removing that and replacing all the previously RCD protected MCBs with
RCBOs, split any base leakage (mainly filters on power supplies of
a lot
of electronic items) across separate circuits and we have not had a
single false trip since.

I used to have a problem with random tripping of the whole house RCD.

Then I fixed the earth<->neutral short in the workshop and apart
from an
electrocuted mouse, it hasn\'t tripped since.

Earth and neutral are the same thing.  Only two wires enter my house
from the substation.

Depends on the country.


It is not so even if \'only two wires enter the house\'.
Conventionally any metal pipes entering it provide the earth.

Here in the UK, if there are really no incoming underground metal pipes
and the incoming mains cable isn\'t metal clad and underground I believe
a long copper rod has to be hammered into the ground to make an earth
(US: ground) connection.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:08:08 +0000, tony sayer, another brain dead
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

Well he doesn\'t get much choice in who he treats, be that the person who
caused the s accident or the innocent ones affected.

I know a police man they just love those calls when they have to tell
the wife that their husband, daughter, son, relative won\'t be coming
home ever again.

I know a sick trolling Scottish asshole wanker and several sick
troll-feeding senile idiots, one of them being you, troll-feeding senile
shithead!

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:15:23 +0000, tony sayer, another brain dead
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

Christ sakes have you ever had your hand round a rung of a metal ladder
in soft earth and the other hand around a metal cased drill? Course with
your scaly skin that wouldn\'t be a problem then;?..

Christ sakes have you ever heard that adage, \"don\'t feed the troll\", you
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE?

 

[Brian Gregory]

On 12/02/2023 11:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 11/02/2023 19:32, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/11/23 06:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

Earth and neutral are the same thing.  Only two wires enter my house
from the substation.

Depends on the country.

I see no reason to have two wires at the same voltage.

That\'s something I had trouble understanding.

They are at the same voltage when no current is being drawn. When
current is being drawn, there will be a voltage drop on the
current-carrying wire.

The point is that they are not at the same voltage. ,

Surely the main, most important, point is what would happen if the
earth/neutral wire got disconnected at some point outside the home while
the live remained connected.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:07:10 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 15:07:21 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 11:22:42 +0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/03/2023 06:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 11:21:43 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 27/02/2023 20:55, NY wrote:

Exactly. It\'s weird that they survived for so long without words to
differentiate colours which most of use see as being different. The
various colours at the blue end of the rainbow (blue, indigo, violet)
are not as easy to differentiate, and I can understand *those* being
thought of as various shades of blue, but red, orange, yellow, green,
blue are all colours that are fairly distinct and deserve individual
names.

Be careful of that \"most of us\".

Almost everyone can tell blue from red or green. Telling red from green
though affects about 1 in 12 men in the UK (other races may vary).

It\'s not 1 in 12. I\'ve only ever known ONE person who was red/green
colour blind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Epidemiology
\" In individuals with Northern European ancestry, as many as 8 percent
of men and 0.4 percent of women experience congenital color deficiency.\"

Maybe you only know 12 people.

Or maybe he doesn\'t test all the people he knows.

People tend to mention it, especially when they do something embarassing because of their defect.

Some cultures, especially asians, like bright primary colors. That
could well be genetic.

Are you saying asians have better eyesight? They certainly seem more advanced than us in most ways.

No, just different tastes in colors maybe.

There are known group genetic differences in food tastes and things
like alcohol and lactose metabolism. And tested IQ. It\'s politically
incorrect to mention racial genetics these days, a disservice to
people who might get better medical care if we took everything into
account.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:05:19 +0000, Brian Gregory
<void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

On 11/02/2023 15:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/02/2023 12:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-02-11 12:31, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 11:16:07 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/02/2023 10:45, SteveW wrote:
On 11/02/2023 09:34, Brian Gaff wrote:
I\'m sure the modern ones will work any way around you wanted. If you
don\'t
like it simply do a head stand before you change them.

My main question, however is why are some breakers so sensitive
they trip
more often than others?
  I think they are way too complex now with earth leakage as well
as just
looking for overloads.

I used to have a problem with random tripping of the whole house RCD.
Removing that and replacing all the previously RCD protected MCBs with
RCBOs, split any base leakage (mainly filters on power supplies of
a lot
of electronic items) across separate circuits and we have not had a
single false trip since.

I used to have a problem with random tripping of the whole house RCD.

Then I fixed the earth<->neutral short in the workshop and apart
from an
electrocuted mouse, it hasn\'t tripped since.

Earth and neutral are the same thing.  Only two wires enter my house
from the substation.

Depends on the country.


It is not so even if \'only two wires enter the house\'.
Conventionally any metal pipes entering it provide the earth.


Here in the UK, if there are really no incoming underground metal pipes
and the incoming mains cable isn\'t metal clad and underground I believe
a long copper rod has to be hammered into the ground to make an earth
(US: ground) connection.

The US electrical code has a similar requirement, although the ground
rod is usually heavily copper-plated mild steel, versus solid copper
(which is too soft to be driven into hard dirt without buckling).

..< https://axis-india.com/installing-ground-rod-explained/ >

Joe Gwinn

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 11:23:13 -0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On 07/03/2023 01:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2023 19:01:00 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
Another example is \"soft rinse\". It was always called that, everyone
called it that, now hardly anyone remembers it and thinks it was always
fabric conditioner.

I\'ve never know it by any other name than \"fabric conditioner\". I must
be too young to remember \"soft rinse\". I wonder when the change occurred
- I realise that it will have been a gradual change in *usage* even if
the labelling on all bottles had changed on the same date.

Nobody remembers it I\'ve asked except people in my own family. Since my mother\'s and father\'s side came from 300 miles apart, it seems odd two completely different areas called it that.

There\'s a BBC Radio comedy programme

Now there\'s a Frog spelling.

True: quite a few British-English spellings are derived from French
spellings - maybe dating back to the Norman Conquest, or maybe just
pretentious-French spelling

Programme versus Program

I detest the mme.

> Theatre versus Theater

But for some reason prefer tre. Perhaps to avoid the Americanism.

> Colour / Honour versus Color / Honor

Actually, the Merkins changed those as part of their simplification proceedings.

They are daft spellings, and hard to justify. But... they are how we
spell them, and I will resist attempts to Americanise them.

The only exception is \"program\" in the sense of computer instructions,
as opposed to what is shown on TV.

That is why I use program, because it\'s illogical to have two for what means the same thing. It\'s a sequence of events in both cases.

OK, so some British-English spellings have mutated over the years: few
people uses \"gaol\" instead of \"jail\",

Unless you pronounce it gay oll, the spelling is absurd.

and \"disk\" is becoming common as
an alternative to \"disc\"

I virtually never see disc.

- and not just in computing. Of course CD is
\"compact disc\" with a C, so British spelling rules there ;-)

No, I write compact disk. Why on earth would you write disc?

The one difference that works the opposite way round is the
pronunciation of \"herb\". British pronounces the H whereas American often
omits the H sound \"erb\" as if it were French.

Americans are just lazy.

I say an otel or a hotel. But never an hotel (although I\'ve heard it said that way). An historic event is also common and very stupid.

Do other English-speaking counties than the UK have the absurd \"an
historic event\"

Well fuck me I just mentioned that. Now did I see it out of the corner of my eye? I\'ve often read something a long way from my centre of vision. If only I could train my eyes/brain to do that on purpose.

where \"an\" is used even though the H in \"historic\" is
sounded? I would normally say \"a historic event\", \"a hotel\" just like \"a
hedge\" or \"a helmet\". If I wanted to be pretentious I suppose \"an
\'istoric event\" or \"an \'otel\" are acceptable, but never \"an\" with a
consonant or consonant-sound, nor \"a\" with a vowel or vowel-sound.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 02:53:08 -0000, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:23:13 +0000, NY wrote:


OK, so some British-English spellings have mutated over the years: few
people uses \"gaol\" instead of \"jail\", and \"disk\" is becoming common as
an alternative to \"disc\" - and not just in computing. Of course CD is
\"compact disc\" with a C, so British spelling rules there ;-)

Gaol always threw me as in \'The Ballad of Reading Gaol\'. I suppose it\'s in
line with Gerald and so forth. I\'m never sure about disk and tend to
alternate. \'Ax\' is another one. This newsreader flags \'axe\' but I tend to
favor that spelling.

Ax is too short to be a word.

The one difference that works the opposite way round is the
pronunciation of \"herb\". British pronounces the H whereas American often
omits the H sound \"erb\" as if it were French.

I\'ll go with herb. \'Erb\' sounds affected to me. When I was a kid I had a
book about Indians, excuse me Native Americans, where the medicine man was
named Herb Gatherer. I thought Mr. Gatherer\'s first name was Herbert like
Herbert Philbrick until the dime dropped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Led_3_Lives

Do other English-speaking counties than the UK have the absurd \"an
historic event\" where \"an\" is used even though the H in \"historic\" is
sounded? I would normally say \"a historic event\", \"a hotel\" just like \"a
hedge\" or \"a helmet\". If I wanted to be pretentious I suppose \"an
\'istoric event\" or \"an \'otel\" are acceptable, but never \"an\" with a
consonant or consonant-sound, nor \"a\" with a vowel or vowel-sound.

I play fast and loose with \'an\'. Acronyms really mix it up. \'An USB port\'
just doesn\'t cut it.

Indeed, that would only make sense if you pronounced the acronym as a word.

https://youtu.be/zJaier77fQc

I accidentally found this: https://youtu.be/LR2C-UK3Wxg

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 10:19:48 -0000, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:23:13 +0000, NY wrote:


OK, so some British-English spellings have mutated over the years: few
people uses \"gaol\" instead of \"jail\", and \"disk\" is becoming common as
an alternative to \"disc\" - and not just in computing. Of course CD is
\"compact disc\" with a C, so British spelling rules there ;-)

Gaol always threw me as in \'The Ballad of Reading Gaol\'. I suppose it\'s in
line with Gerald and so forth. I\'m never sure about disk and tend to
alternate. \'Ax\' is another one. This newsreader flags \'axe\' but I tend to
favor that spelling.


The one difference that works the opposite way round is the
pronunciation of \"herb\". British pronounces the H whereas American often
omits the H sound \"erb\" as if it were French.

I\'ll go with herb. \'Erb\' sounds affected to me.

Herb sounds affected to me.

Not sure what you mean. Is that like \"affection\"?

OTOH, I pronounce the H in herbivore,
herbicide, etc. \"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little
minds.\"

Bollocks, logic beats rules.

When I was a kid I had a
book about Indians, excuse me Native Americans, where the medicine man was
named Herb Gatherer. I thought Mr. Gatherer\'s first name was Herbert like
Herbert Philbrick until the dime dropped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Led_3_Lives


Do other English-speaking counties than the UK have the absurd \"an
historic event\" where \"an\" is used even though the H in \"historic\" is
sounded? I would normally say \"a historic event\", \"a hotel\" just like \"a
hedge\" or \"a helmet\". If I wanted to be pretentious I suppose \"an
\'istoric event\" or \"an \'otel\" are acceptable, but never \"an\" with a
consonant or consonant-sound, nor \"a\" with a vowel or vowel-sound.

I play fast and loose with \'an\'. Acronyms really mix it up. \'An USB port\'
just doesn\'t cut it.

Given the implicit \"Y\" sound at the beginning, it\'s a virtual consonant.

As in a ukulele.

> \"AEIOU and sometimes Y\".

Those are vowels.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:52:42 -0000, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 10:19:48 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:


Herb sounds affected to me. OTOH, I pronounce the H in herbivore,
herbicide, etc. \"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little
minds.\"

herbal? I often hear the h dropped there too, possibly as an extension of
erb. Like you say anyone who wants consistency better learn German.

Yes, \"erbal\". Isn\'t that how it\'s pronounced in the commercials?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGaXOQH8vok

That sounds so utterly stupid. Merkins, do you really want to sound thick?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 17:36:25 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 10:19:48 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:23:13 +0000, NY wrote:


OK, so some British-English spellings have mutated over the years: few
people uses \"gaol\" instead of \"jail\", and \"disk\" is becoming common as
an alternative to \"disc\" - and not just in computing. Of course CD is
\"compact disc\" with a C, so British spelling rules there ;-)

Gaol always threw me as in \'The Ballad of Reading Gaol\'. I suppose it\'s in
line with Gerald and so forth. I\'m never sure about disk and tend to
alternate. \'Ax\' is another one. This newsreader flags \'axe\' but I tend to
favor that spelling.


The one difference that works the opposite way round is the
pronunciation of \"herb\". British pronounces the H whereas American often
omits the H sound \"erb\" as if it were French.

I\'ll go with herb. \'Erb\' sounds affected to me.

Herb sounds affected to me.

It\'s a guy name.

It\'s a gay name.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 21:08:04 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 16:56:02 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On 9 Mar 2023 05:08:10 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 09:33:49 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

What is megaML? It doesn\'t google well.

Not an actual term outside of my imagination. TensorFlow is a Google
endeavor and they provide a web interface called Colab where you can
execute TF in Python.

https://colab.research.google.com/notebooks/intro.ipynb

Google also builds their own specialized hardware:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_Processing_Unit

Others use GPUs like NVidias. After you construct a model you train it
with a large set of labeled data over many iterations to optimize the
weights and it\'s very processor intensive. As you might guess from tensor
you\'re deep into linear algebra.

After training the model and getting the error down to an acceptable level
you can export a .tflite file that\'s relatively small. The metaphor is
when you\'re learning something new you\'re very busy but when you get
around to applying the knowledge it\'s nowhere near as intensive so it can
be handled by an embedded processor.

The Arduino nano 33 BLE Sense is popular. It uses the Nordic nRF52840 32-
bit ARM processor and has an inertial unit, magnetic sensor, temperature,
humidity, and other sensors in a very small package.

At least that\'s the theory. In the \'80s I was programming MCUs lke the
8048 family for devices like handheld pH/ion concentration meters. I took
a course in neural networks which was going to be the Next Great Thing. It
was oversold since the hardware didn\'t exist to make it feasible.

40 years later neural networks were reborn as machine learning except now
you have racks and racks of TPUs churning away to make it work. Whether it
can be used to do useful work on MCUs is another question.

For a sense of scale Facebook (Meta) managed to leak their large language
model. It\'s only 288 GB. Nadella recently said Siri, Alexa, Cortana and so
forth are as dumb as rocks. We\'ll see what the next generation of AI buzz
brings.

OK, machine learning. In a hard embedded electronic instrument, we
want predictability and zero errors. ML and NNs and that sort of thing
seems to me to continually generate dangerous bugs.

Programmers do that all by themselves.

Not if they are good, and not continually.

A formally released firmware package can be bug-free and is not
updated every week like most software is. The software model of
multiple people editing millions of lines of code on github, and
pushing updates out to users often and randomly, isn\'t safe for
hardware.

ML and NNs are self-modifying code.

 

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:11:51 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

> ML and NNs are self-modifying code.

A quibble but I don\'t consider modifying the weights and biases self-
modifying code. Now if it decided it needed another layer of neurons and a
different activation function that would be self-modifying.