Why do circuit breakers go up for on and down for off?...

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 8:30:01 AM UTC-8, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On 2023-02-15, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
On 15/02/2023 11:40, Max Demian wrote:

It had never actually occurred to me until now that \"clockwise\" is the
same way that the sun appears to move in the sky, so the hour hand will
follow the sun (except at double speed). I must have been singularly
incurious to accept what \"clockwise\" meant without relating it to the
direction of movement of the sun.

Think about sundials for just a moment.

and consider Australian sundials

<https://images.app.goo.gl/RyaJS4F8xuZXzPJa7>

and a design for sundials for any hemisphere

<https://images.app.goo.gl/5SQkj4mM5A5vyBAd7>

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:53:53 +0000, R D S, another troll-feeding senile
SHITHEAD, blathered:

> I haven\'t read the replies....

But you troll-feeding senile idiot HAD to contribute to the \"success\" of the
sociopathic wanker\'s latest absolutely idiotic thread that has been going
for over a week!

 

[Tabby]

On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 08:10:31 UTC, Don Y wrote:

On 2/20/2023 11:58 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 10:17:39 UTC, Don Y wrote:
On 2/20/2023 2:22 AM, James wrote:
On 19/02/2023 12:21, Don Y wrote:

Here, all food products cary a \"nutrition label\". It gives the consumer
information as to serving size (supposedly somewhat standardized within
product families), number of servings in container, calories, fat, sodium,
etc. per serving.

You\'d think that abundance of data would lead to a population that is
\"fit\" and \"healthy\"!

I certainly wouldn\'t. There is more to health than nutrition labelling. It
also requires at least good nutritional advice, education, motivation &
affordable options. As a society we fail on all of those.
There\'s scant little the powers that be can do to force people
to learn

education

> and make informed decisions.

trying to force people to do that is not the usual approach

But, they can force vendors to disclose what\'s in their products
so that people who *do* want to evaluate based on something more
than a picture of the item on the label can do so.

yes, we covered that

And, summarize
what a typical person *needs* for those significant nutritional
issues (calories, fat, sodium, etc.). Particularly if you have
dietary constraints that make certain types of foods ill-advised.

Likewise for prepared foods (\"that hamburger has 100% of your
daily budget of sodium, fat, etc. -- and don\'t even think
about the fried onion rings!\")

Similarly, requiring food to be unit priced so customers
who can\'t do arithmetic in their head can compare apples
to apples between competing products.
But, there\'s no real way to use the data in day-to-day decisions

I do
So, you tabulate the calories, fat, saturated fat, sodium, etc.
for each of the items you plan on eating, that day, before
committing to that menu?

no, it\'s not that detailed

> How does that work if you\'re \"out\"?

same way it works when I\'m not out

-- other than choosing between similar items (\"This one has more fat per
serving...\").

I see no need to restrict choices to similar items
No one is RESTRICTING choice. Rather, if Bob wants to buy some
hotdogs, how do you give him information sufficient to decide
what value two competing products offer (monetarily as well as
nutritionally)? Should he buy the beef dogs? Turkey? Pork?
\"Imitation meat\"?

nutrition info on da label

If he decides, instead, to buy a pork shoulder, shouldn\'t he be
able to understand how that changes his nutritional budget
(from that of the hotdogs)?
You can\'t use the data to plan a diet because there are simply too many
choices and opportunities, during a day, to MAKE those choices.

nonsequitur

(\"If I eat this, now, can I compensate for
it with my eating choices later, today?\")

the label info answers that pretty quickly. Typically it\'s no.
The label that you said didn\'t contain enough nutritional information?

huh?

You can compensate (without planning a whole day\'s food intake)
if you are diligent.

you can, I do not find that generally works, as I said.

If I have a steak for breakfast, I\'m not
going to have another big \"meat meal\" later that day. Nor am
I going to restrict myself to only eating steak late in the day.

When I am planning on doing my holiday baking, I invariably
eat less -- because I know I will be \"eating the rejects\"
(or discarding them). And, arrange for the things that I
do \"eat\" to be high protein (as the \"rejects\" are invariably
carbs)
Maybe energy shouldn\'t be importable -- every nation should have to live
within it\'s local means (why impose on neighbors for your shortfalls?).
Locally adopt changes to meet your available resources. Without
\"impinging\" on others who don\'t have them! You can impose whatever sort of
draconian measures your population will tolerate to solve *its* problem!

what problem do you think preventing international trade in energy would
solve? I can\'t think of one
Seems like you (EU/UK) have a problem because of your past reliance on
international trade in energy -- now disrupted!

yup

Had you been forced
to live within your means, the problem wouldn\'t exist.

we did & do live within means, that really has nothing to do with it

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 15/02/23 08:55, Don Y wrote:

A colleague sent along a copy of an article espousing a 2KW/hr/person
energy consumption rate as if it was a practical goal.

Yes, I\'m sure in some parts of the world, folks get by with
considerably *less*.

But, given that our cooling season will be starting RSN (despite
the fact that we\'re expecting ~20F overnight, this week) and
that guzzles power at an alarming rate.

I don\'t see any evidence that other parts of the country are
*considerably* more frugal/efficient, though.

www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/state_briefs/pdf/az.pdf
https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/state_briefs/

(Admittedly dated, no reflection on transportation)

Current world energy production (all forms, 2019 figures) is about
606EJ/year, of which 418EJ is delivered as useful energy to the consumer.

That\'s about 1700W/person, or 41kWh per day.

Do we really want to get to 2kWh/person/day?

That\'s 83 watts, less than the resting energy consumption of a single
human body, before they attempt to walk, ride, drive, or heat their homes.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 16 Feb 2023 08:24:03 -0800 (PST)) it happened Dean
Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote in
<3b0f4e0e-c0d4-4ac1-afc2-c8890d37ba49n@googlegroups.com>:

On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 3:55:49 PM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:
A colleague sent along a copy of an article espousing a 2KW/hr/person
energy consumption rate as if it was a practical goal.

Yes, I\'m sure in some parts of the world, folks get by with
considerably *less*.

But, given that our cooling season will be starting RSN (despite
the fact that we\'re expecting ~20F overnight, this week) and
that guzzles power at an alarming rate.

I don\'t see any evidence that other parts of the country are
*considerably* more frugal/efficient, though.

www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/state_briefs/pdf/az.pdf

https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/state_briefs/


(Admittedly dated, no reflection on transportation)

I have the most used lights in my house on dimmers. They\'re also LED.
The amount of electricity they use is almost nothing when turned down. It\'s
still more electricity than the incandescents in our old farmhouse after
my dad yelled \"Turn that damn light off\".

Is is all not a big problem, as long as you make sure the light in your fridge is off
after you closed the fridge door ;-)

 

[Dan Purgert]

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On 2023-02-18, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-02-18 14:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Steam locos were not rated in horsepower, but \'tractive effort\' . How
many tons of pull they could generate before the wheels slipped.

That\'s why they had a lot of driving wheels - at least four, generally 6
 and up to 8.

I suppose this assumes that the tracks do not bend, vertically or
horizontally, or some of the wheels could loose pressure, as there are
no springs on the loco wheels (but the wagons do have them, so there
must be imperfections on the tracks).

Steam locomotive drivers are sprung. It\'s just that the suspension is
inboard of the wheels (as opposed to freight cars and diesel locomotives
where the suspension is on the outside).

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[whit3rd]

On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 6:50:12 AM UTC-8, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 14:34:53 -0000, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Reverse screws are used on steering links so you can adjust the
effective length by turning the link rod.

No reason that couldn\'t be done the other way.
Think about it. How do you build a turnbuckle with both sides righthanded
thread?

You could thread one end 20 per inch, and the other 40 per inch. 20 turns gains
or shrinks by half an inch.

 

[Dan Purgert]

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[\"Followup-To:\" header set to sci.electronics.design.]
On 2023-02-18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/02/2023 12:37, Max Demian wrote:
Steam locos were not rated in horsepower, but \'tractive effort\' . How
many tons of pull they could generate before the wheels slipped.

Sort of. The important factor is tractive effort; but horsepower was a
known factor as well.

That\'s why they had a lot of driving wheels - at least four, generally 6
and up to 8.

10 and 12 were also used out west. And don\'t forget the articulated
options that had 12 or 16 (6 or 8 total drive axles). I think one of
the eastern roads went with a triplex design of 2-6-6-6-2 or something
like that; but it didn\'t work all that well (too steam hungry).



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[Tabby]

On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 08:29:13 UTC, Don Y wrote:

On 2/20/2023 11:45 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 10:17:35 UTC, Don Y wrote:
On 2/20/2023 2:22 AM, James wrote:
On 19/02/2023 12:30, Don Y wrote:

No but your answers here should understand the problems others are
facing. Quote: \'My comment (above) was with regard to the
*increase* in cost (from \"rate hikes\") as being relatively modest.\'
They are not.

How much should I alter my behavior to reflect the conditions in
Ukraine, today?

Your behaviour should not be dismissive of others that may have
experienced tripled energy costs.
Why should your problems be mine? Are you going to do anything to refill
Lakes Meade & Powell? Or, address gun violence, here? Shouldn\'t you feel
morally obligated to do so? (as you seem to think USAins have to behave as
brits in our values and approaches to problems)

Drive smaller cars.

we do. They\'re over twice as safe as American cars, under half the cost and
about twice as fuel efficient.
If fuel was twice what it costs here, what have you saved?
How do you cart lumber home for a project?

it goes in the back or on the roof

Or, purchase
oversized items?

I can\'t think of anything I can\'t get home

Rent a vehicle for the task?
Own smaller refrigerators.

we do
And must, therefore, be visiting the store more often.

nonsequitur. Our lower obesity rate means we eat less. We are less likely to put things that don\'t need to be in the fridge in it. And we don\'t eat the same meals. Nor do we have any possible reason to open the fridge 50 times a day!

Use less energy.

we do
You HAVE to! Because your energy costs are so outrageously
high!

some have to, most of us don\'t

That\'s not a consequence of being \"morally superior\"
(as your tone seems to suggest).

where did I claim that exactly?

Be more fit.

we are

Yet, you have no problem claiming that *we* should be!

Of course the US should be! US has an epidemic of obesity. And we are catching up.

(this list was a tabulation of the things YOU say of us;
you\'ve misinterpreted its intent)
Lose collective weight.

we are less obese than US
See above.
I can solve your energy problem: develop new energy sources! See how easy
that was?

oddly, it is not now solved
How much money did your government pump into private individuals\'
pockets to do so? We call that socialism, here.

How much energy did you have to import from the US?
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/trendsinukimportsandexportsoffuels/2022-06-29
What would you have done without those sources?

imported it from elsewhere I expect.

I can solve your political problems: throw everyone out at the next
election and arrange for that to happen RSN. Repeat until the folks who
end up in office actually respond to your needs. Another simple fix!

the UK has been doing that for decades. It has not worked, and isn\'t going
to
Then you\'re doing it wrong. Obviously.

What is obvious is that you don\'t know or understand what\'s going on here, yet think you do

Should I be more *appreciative* of the fact that I have lights and
sanitation?

Probably yes. You are getting there.

A comment I hear from my right-wing friends is that the EU \"deserves\"
the (energy) problems they\'re facing because they cozied up to
Russia, (presumably for short-term savings at the expense of energy
independence). \"Why should *we* be shipping fuels to them and driving
up domestic prices? Shouldn\'t we try to capitalize on their dilemma?
Isn\'t that \'supply-and-demand\'? Maybe their markets will \'teach them\'
that lesson...\"

A valid although incomplete view point but that is politics over which I
have minimal control. I can influence my energy bill by reducing
consumption. In a technical group it is valid to be interested in that
consumption. We do not need quips.
\"Quips\" -- comments that you don\'t like. Regardless of how accurately
they reflect reality. Would you prefer if I cooed and reassured you that
it\'ll be OK, don\'t fret?

your idea of reality on this topic is too naive to be constructive. You show
no grasp of what\'s going on here. Energy costs are just one aspect of our
probable imminent complete loss of \'democracy\'.
Ah, but you are an *expert* on what\'s going on *here*, right?

what makes you think that?

> You seem awfully preachy about it -- hence my snarky replies!

What am I preaching?

You can\'t fit big cars in your homes -- because you gutted some
ancient building and retrofitted JUST the interior to be
more modern (and didn\'t think creating a space for the car
was important... at least, not as important as making a
space for the toilet!).

most uk homes are not designed to have cars parked in them.

And, your fuel costs are so high that you treat the smaller car
as a *virtue*

feel free to quote me on that. They\'re an advantage, our cars stop better, are more stable, kill less and are cheaper. Virtue is a bit of a stretch.

-- yet refuse to downsize to an even more \"virtuous\"
size transport.

if there\'s something virtuous about even smaller cars you can tell us. History does not side with you on that though.

> You\'re quick to claim us as unfit, overweight, etc. yet

are you seriously disputing the existence of the obesity epidemic?

> have no idea what life in a nonsocialistic society is like.

you do not have the data on my life experiences to conclude that

You consider us wasteful of energy, in general, in our appliance
choices, vehicles, etc.

your vehicles consume more energy & have poorer outcomes.

Yet have no idea what it\'s like NOT
to pay outrageous prices for that energy.

again you don\'t know where or how I\'ve lived

One wonders how
\"virtuous\" you would be if your energy costs were the same
as ours.

makes no sense

> You mock our purchase decisions

no, not agreeing is not mocking

because they don\'t fit with YOUR
lifestyle choices -- as if YOUR choices are implicitly \"correct\".

Naive would be an understatement!

Or, is it envy?

I\'ve looked at higher priced fridges. I found no upside. Had very large & fast cars & don\'t want another. Had swimming pool a minute showers and don\'t want one of those either. Such things are false luxuries, with no genuine signficant upside.

I don\'t feel much sympathy for folks who rob banks and get shot by the
police. They screwed up (YOU screwed up with your energy policies).

we did not, our politicians did. Politics here is not the same as the US.
They\'re elected officials, right? Or, is it really a dictatorship
with a ceremonial figurehead

somewhere between the 2

> (the real masters being Illuminati)?

lol

We (the US population) would like to know as we\'d likely not be
as supportive of a dictatorship!

we\'re getting there fast

You could be spending your time working for pols who would get you out of
your problems.

you really don\'t get it. Those who could solve it are not going to get
elected.
Because the electorate won\'t elect them? Or, is it that secret
behind-the-scenes organization at work?

if you insist on being silly you\'re not likely to learn much

It must suck to live somewhere where you KNOW you don\'t have a
choice in your government!

every political system has its good points & not so good

My god, what a sad existence you must
lead!

another weird comment

Or, is that someone *else\'s* problem? It seems like you\'re just opting for
the easy solution: \"I measure everything\". But, you likely still use more
energy than *essential* -- does that make you feel inadequate as a
person?

Or, *design* something that saves energy -- but, on a *significant* scale
(not some incremental reduction). India needs an economical refrigeration
solution -- on a massive scale. See what you can offer, there.

Or, figure out how you are going to convince entire national populations
that they should adopt your value system(s). And, test that approach on
each nation!

You remind me of the careers advice I got. It was patently obvious what my
career was going to be, I was already doing the relevant qualification &
involved with the relevant company. I protested but was required to go get
this \'advice\', which was more clueless than I had imagined possible.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:22:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<0ognuhlf3p917lkstakealcige11le0hl1@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 05:49:53 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

Blue Origin makes a big lunar announcement without any fanfare
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/blue-origin-makes-a-big-lunar-announcement-without-any-fanfare/

That\'s crazy. If solar panels could be manufactured on the moon, what
use would they be?

Support humans there, make rocket fuel.

 

[Peeler]

On 17 Feb 2023 03:41:48 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600:_The_Hacker_Quarterly

Fun with the phone system... A couple of students set up what amounted to
a PBX in the dorms, something that was completely illegal in the \'60s when
Ma Bell owned everything including the telephone itself. They were
expelled but the rumor was they found gainful employment at AT&T
immediately.

I had one phone that I\'d decorated with acrylic paint in a bored moment. I
got a strange look when I handed it in at the phone store but I imagine
they got phones back in worse shape. It really wasn\'t a good idea to
attach a convenient hammer to something as likely to piss a person off as
a phone. Those old Bakelite handsets had heft to them.

Wow, another thrilling account from the so very interesting life of the
resident drama queen. LOL

--
More of the senile gossip\'s absolutely idiotic senile blather:
\"I stopped for breakfast at a diner in Virginia when the state didn\'t do
DST. I remarked on the time difference and the crusty old waitress said
\'We keep God\'s time in Virginia.\'

I also lived in Ft. Wayne for a while.\"

MID: <t0tjfa$6r5$1@dont-email.me>

 

[Don Y]

On 2/14/2023 9:46 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 15/02/23 08:55, Don Y wrote:
A colleague sent along a copy of an article espousing a 2KW/hr/person
energy consumption rate as if it was a practical goal.

Yes, I\'m sure in some parts of the world, folks get by with
considerably *less*.

But, given that our cooling season will be starting RSN (despite
the fact that we\'re expecting ~20F overnight, this week) and
that guzzles power at an alarming rate.

I don\'t see any evidence that other parts of the country are
*considerably* more frugal/efficient, though.

www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/state_briefs/pdf/az.pdf
https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/state_briefs/

(Admittedly dated, no reflection on transportation)

Current world energy production (all forms, 2019 figures) is about 606EJ/year,
of which 418EJ is delivered as useful energy to the consumer.

That\'s about 1700W/person, or 41kWh per day.

Including folks who use \"nothing\" (besides a small fire)?

> Do we really want to get to 2kWh/person/day?

2KWHr/Hr/person. 48KWHr/day/person

They claim (2021) rates of:
- 17,000W (Iceland) -- makes the US look miserly!
- 8,600W (USA)
- 4,200W (EU)
- 3,400W (China) -- seems high, given their population/distribution
- 3,300W (UK)
- 800W (India)
- 310W (Bangladesh)

(Apparently, the Swiss are toying with the idea of a 2KW target, nationally.
And, claiming \"without sacrificing their enviably high standards [sic] of
living.\")

The article claims:
\"Back in the 1990\'s, it (2000W) was the amount of energy available
to each person on Earth (!) if all the energy produced was divided
equally.\"

I don\'t see how *that* can justify this as a target as it under-represents
some \"needs\" due to the number of folks \"lack(ing) access to enough energy
for basic needs such as cooking and cooling\" (It cites an estimate
of 2.5B people being thusly categorized)

It *is* amusing/enlightening, though, to put your own consumption in
perspective: What are you NOT doing that others are? What ARE you
doing that others *aren\'t*?

That\'s 83 watts, less than the resting energy consumption of a single human
body, before they attempt to walk, ride, drive, or heat their homes.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Peeler]

On 17 Feb 2023 03:17:19 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> Figures.

Like what? Like you being unable to resist the very dumbest baits set out by
the attention whore, for the very reason that you just love so much to hear
yourself talking? LMAO

--
Yet more of the so very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
\"My family loaded me into a \'51 Chevy and drove from NY to Seattle and
back in \'52. I\'m alive. The Chevy had a painted steel dashboard with two
little hand prints worn down to the primer because I liked to stand up
and lean on it to see where we were going.\"
MID: <j2kuc1F3ejsU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[Tabby]

On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 08:35:30 UTC, Don Y wrote:

On 2/21/2023 12:01 AM, Tabby wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 12:07:24 UTC, Don Y wrote:
On 2/20/2023 4:19 AM, James wrote:
On 20/02/2023 10:17, Don Y wrote:
On 2/20/2023 2:22 AM, James wrote:
On 19/02/2023 12:21, Don Y wrote:

And, what do they do when they
don\'t like what they see, return it?

Yes or not switch it on.

You buy things to *use* them, not worship them.

Not 100% of the time. If it is an old existing device stop using it
or replace.

And *you* get to make that decision for *me*? Wow, full
of yourself, eh?

I will quote your text from above \"when *they* don\'t like\". The decision to
not like was not made by me. I was answering the \"And, what do they do when\".
You don\'t have to follow my answer. Please, Don...
Here is the entire quote:
\"So, instead of just *using* devices, you expect consumers
to quantify the costs of each. And, what do they do when
they don\'t like what they see, return it? Will you publish
a comprehensive catalog of every energy consuming device
with costs normalized so consumers can make informed choices?\"
So, the consumer has taken on the task of quantifying the
cost of each candidate device. Most stores don\'t let you walk
in and test devices on the showroom floor. So, you had to
*purchase* the device(s) and bring them home. Then, set up
a (repeatable) experiment that you could use to collect comparison
data. Thereafter, one (or both) will likely not meet their
goals (one will likely always be \"better\") so they must return
the device(s) that they found \"inadequate\".

And, do this for every device they might consider purchasing.
Noting, of course, that the manufacturer is under no obligation
to keep the design constant between units/purchases. So, any
\"results\" are only applicable to the units actually tested.
Repeat a \"satisfied\" purchase a month later and the results
may be different!

If (as in my original examples) you already own a device
(no store involved -- yet!), you still have to dedicate
considerable time to designing a repeatable experiment
and then running it. And, may not be able to make any
practical sense of the data you obtain!

Hot wash, delicate cycle: AAAA
Hot wash, heavy soil: BBBB
Cold wash, delicate cycle: CCCC
Cold wash, heavy soil: DDDD

First order of business, come up with a way of soiling
garments repeatably -- and hope the fabric\'s repeated
laundering doesn\'t affect it\'s ability to retain soil!

Second order of business, come up with a set of criteria
to judge how \"clean\" the results are, after wash. I.e.,
if cost1 < cost2 but remaining_soil1 > remaining_soil2,
which is the more efficient solution? Do I have to
wash #1, again, to meet the same cleanliness levels of #2?
Maybe #2 is cleaner than it needs to be??

[I can always opt NOT to launder in which case my energy
costs will always be lowest! But, cleanliness will suffer!]

What will the break-even point be for these tests as they
are each \"unnecessary\" in the lives of the garments being
tested? The energy expended during the tests is \"wasted\".

Third item, what constitutes a \"bad\" result? How much energy
is \"too much\" to remove a particular amount of soil? Do
you have normalized data from other appliances against
which you can compare your results? What if the soil is a
permanent *stain*?

Fourth item, how do you combine results for more optimal
utilization? E.g., if I wash my whites on hot, they tend to
come cleaner than in cold. But, if I have to run an extra
wash cycle JUST for whites (instead of combining with
something else that *could* be \"satisfactorily\" washed cold),
then I\'m being more wasteful than necessary.

And this is just *washing*. What about drying? Different
heat settings, steam, dryness levels, etc. And, relative
to drying on a line? Or, out of doors? (does time of day,
time of year affect the decision?)

People don\'t have the skills, patience or time to be \"amateur
scientists\". Nor do they want to. They want to spin a knob
to a particular setting and hit START. They are banking on the
manufacturer having decided that the soil-level/fabric-type
they\'ve selected will be cleaned adequately (which is not
necessarily the same as most energy efficiently!)

Wow. Here we just require retailers to have energy consumption on the label.

Which means absolutely nothing to anyone other than some fictional
consumer!

it depends on the product. Fridge energy use doesn\'t vary much, so it\'s informative. Some things vary hugely, so one only gets a very rough comparison. It beats no info.

The fictional consumer purchasing a refrigerator of the \"type\"
we purchased will spend 71 - 83 dollars, per year, operating it.
Our particular model claims $76. Do I actually think that if I
left my KWHr meter connected to the refrigerator for a full
year that it would be $76? That *my* usage mirrors that of
the \"fictional consumer\"?

Do I *care*?

I didn\'t choose the refrigerator (over the $83 model or the $71 model)
because it used $76 worth of electricity. Am I afraid that the
manufacturer may have LIED about its energy requirements?

it can sometimes be unrealistic. It beats no info though.

If you already *have* this information, what is James doing
beyond \"reading that label\"?

no idea what that means

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Feb 2023 16:17:48 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<op8ouh1sp6b7kboutve68o6547i6r0uars@4ax.com>:

We were just walking in the rain! It was unpredicted, of course.

But here on the coast, where most of the population is, it doesn\'t get
very hot or cold. Most people don\'t have a/c. Our gas heater broke in
January and it was no big deal.

Here the rooms I usually occupy take about 1kW to stay 20C above the
outside cold, and the winters can be harsh (not lately though we saw
-12C a few mornings last week). April to end of October usually is OK
without heating; cooling during the summer is not needed, though there
may be a few days when you\'d wish you had it (we don\'t).

A couple of ceiling fans are enough for the roughly 15 warm days. We
do run the heat all year.

I just looked at my energy bill over 2022
electricity 1854 kWh
gas 813 m^3
I payed about 107 Euro (is about the same in dollars these days) a month for electricity + gas (same provider).
Most electricty use is TV (200W when on).
Computers are mostly Raspberries now runing 24/7. monitor, laptop, some LED lights.
House is double insulated, close to the coast, wind usually from the sea, but shielded from the wind
by other houses,

Not that much really.

 

[Peeler]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:52:07 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
\"Shit you\'re thick/pathetic excuse for a troll.\"
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1@news.mixmin.net>

 

[NY]

On 17/02/2023 01:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I turn the wipers faster instead of off.  My stupid Renault has up for
faster.  Never seen a wiper stalk work that way in a car.

My Peugeot and my wife\'s Honda each have the wiper stalk on the right,
but they work in opposite directions: on one you move the stalk upwards
(anticlockwise) to increase the speed, on the other you move it
downwards. I can never remember which is which (other than that they are
different) so I now get it wrong on *both* cars :-(

But then it\'s like the position of reverse gear: top left (left of
first) in the Peugeot, bottom right (right of sixth) in the Honda. And
the Honda will not let you engage reverse until the car is completely
stationary (even with the clutch down). I have got into the bad habit
with my Peugeot of engaging reverse while the car is still rolling
forwards slightly, then letting the clutch up once I\'ve completely come
to a halt. I need to unlearn that bad habit ;-)

 

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 12:41:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> It is quite hard in the UK to get a mortgage on a 100% timber frame.

That would explain the Soviet style apartment blocks I see in British
films. Some attempt to dress up the poured concrete construction with
limited success. Almost all new construction in this area is platform
framed wood construction, sheathed with OSB, wrapped in Tyvek, and some
sort of decorative siding applied. The exception is multistory commercial
buildings.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 14 Feb 2023 19:13:35 +0100, \"Carlos E. R.\"
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-02-14 18:55, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 10:48:29 +0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/02/2023 15:56, John Larkin wrote:
But I guess 240v is a lot nastier than 120, so more ground fault
sensing makes sense in europe.

It\'s a trade-off. More shocks with 240V; more fires with the higher
currents required at 120V.

Andy

If the breakers are sized for the wiring, there is no fire hazard
there. Romex doesn\'t get hot at rated current. Fires are started by
appliances like space heaters, which wouldn\'t be affected by the
voltage. Or overloaded extension cords, arguably a lesser hazard at
higher voltage.

Very old houses had knob-and-tube wiring with twisted junctions, in
walls and exposed in attics, and people tended to screw in bigger
glass fuses than the wire could handle. That was, sometimes still is,
a big fire hazard.


In my house, or rather my parent\'s house, fuses were just a strand of
wire wrapped around two metal screws or some metal something. When a
fuse blows, you just put another wire. It it blows again, they put two
strands. Next, they put three... you see the problem.

Of course you can use sealed fuses, or calibrated fuse wire (they sold
that in the UK). But it is just safer to use calibrated breakers which
\"blow\" and you just throw them back. Of course they can be intentionally
\"sabotaged\".

IN NYCity, my apartment building and I\'m sure most apartment buildings,
rentals in general, used Fustats. It\'s an insert that screws into the
original fuse holder (which I think used the same thread as a
lightbulb), but the inserts have a different pitch internal thread for
each amperage. So in the basement, I could only use one 20-amp Fustat,
and in my apartment, I could only use two 15-amp Fustats.

Fustat was the first capital of Egypt under Muslim rule, and the
historical centre of modern Cairo -- oops, wrong link.

https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-Fustat-Buss-Fuse-Pack/dp/B01DWBTZOA
$70 for 4?!. They weren\'t anywhere near this expensive in the 70\'s,
even allowing for 70\'s prices. They only sell this one size, which
seems to be 8 amps. What kind of a value is 8 amps? The ones that
never sold out?

Menards has Cooper Bussmann® Tamper-Proof Fustat Heavy Duty Plug Fuse
6.25 amps for $4.88 each. What kind of a value is 6.25 amps?


I used to, had to power the whole 6-room apartments, including sometimes
the last couple years a small air conditioner, on 20 amps. Only blew
the fuse about 4 times.

 

[Peeler]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 08:45:28 +0000, NY, the really endlessly blathering,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered, yet again:

> My Peugeot and my wife\'s Honda each have the wiper stalk on the right,

And now say \"thank you\" to the fucking stupid troll for providing you with
yet another opportunity to blather away in your senile manner, senile
blabbermouth!