What's that black dust in monitors?

[Rod Speed]

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6d2420$0$28119$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

MC <mc@non.existant.place> wrote

Dust ends up in PC regardless of moisture and or
tars and is anything like the color of the black stuff in
monitors. So it cant be just dust as some have claimed.

** No one claimed it was simply dust.

It is soot - the residue of burnt air borne particles.


As others have stated, it is airborne particulate matter from
various sources that accumulates.

** That is what I stated:

" ** IME it can be one or more of the following:

1. Residue of cigarette smoke collected by the EHT wiring.
2. Photocopier toner dust similarly collected - if a copier is nearby.
3. House dust collected and carbonised by the huge voltage gradients
around the EHT wiring.
Horrible stuff in all cases.

............ Phil "



it is not *always* burnt stuff.,


** Yes it is.

The voltage HT carbonises it, turning it into soot.

Have fun explaining why you dont get that
on the HT lead from the FBT to the tube.

Or with Tesla coils either.

Game, set and match.

 

[Rod Speed]

MC <mc@non.existant.place> wrote in message
news:3F6D229A.73428EED@non.existant.place...

Dust ends up in PC regardless of moisture and or
tars and is anything like the color of the black stuff in
monitors. So it cant be just dust as some have claimed.

No one claimed it was simply dust.

It is soot - the residue of burnt air borne particles.

As others have stated, it is airborne particulate
matter from various sources that accumulates.,

Pity that stuff isnt jet black.

it is not *always* burnt stuff.,

Nothing to 'burn' it in a monitor.

it is not *always* toner dust., it *is*
general dust from lots of different places

Yes, you certainly get quite a bit of dust inside any
thing that has significant aiflow thru it, whether that
is fan assisted or just has convection cooling.

BUT IS ISNT JET BLACK, its just dust colored.

and there is not just *one* mechanism
responsible for forming that black crud.

You only see that jet black crud in a monitor adjacent to the FBT.

 

[Rod Speed]

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6d1c7b$0$18592$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Harry Conover <hhc314@yahoo.com> wrote

Dust ends up in PC regardless of moisture and or
tars and is anything like the color of the black stuff in
monitors. So it cant be just dust as some have claimed.

No one claimed it was simply dust.

Obvious lie. Harry did just that.

Jackie, it's simply micron sized particles of various airborne
contaminants that are captured or precipitated out by the
strong electrostatic fields that exist within the monitor's case.

It's a pretty basic concept, so I'm a bit surprised
that no one has posted this explanation earlier.

If you watch the TV ads for Sharper Image's air purifier, which
is simply an overpriced electrostatic precipitator, you see them
wiping the same black stuff off of the outside of the collector plate.

You will find the same stuff accumulating in any
equipment where strong electrostatic fields exist.

Pity it aint black in that situation, most obviously
with what certainly ends up on the front glass
surface of the tube and in those ESD air 'purifiers'

It is soot

Soorree, nothing to burn it inside a monitor.

the residue of burnt air borne particles.

Soorree, nothing to burn it inside a monitor.

And you dont get that black soot inside an electrical
heater where there is something to burn the dust.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkjb5g$2eskl$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6d2420$0$28119$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
MC <mc@non.existant.place> wrote

Dust ends up in PC regardless of moisture and or
tars and is anything like the color of the black stuff in
monitors. So it cant be just dust as some have claimed.

** No one claimed it was simply dust.

It is soot - the residue of burnt air borne particles.


As others have stated, it is airborne particulate matter from
various sources that accumulates.

** That is what I stated:

" ** IME it can be one or more of the following:

1. Residue of cigarette smoke collected by the EHT wiring.
2. Photocopier toner dust similarly collected - if a copier is
nearby.
3. House dust collected and carbonised by the huge voltage gradients
around the EHT wiring.
Horrible stuff in all cases.

............ Phil "



it is not *always* burnt stuff.,


** Yes it is.

The voltage HT carbonises it, turning it into soot.

Have fun explaining why you dont get that
on the HT lead from the FBT to the tube.

** No need to explain the Robot's false assertion.

Or with Tesla coils either.

** Not even faintly similar situation.




........... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkjb6d$2d4ps$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

You only see that jet black crud in a monitor adjacent to the FBT.

** Bullshit - it gets all over the back of the CRT, the ultor lead
and the insides of the case.

The Robot is not even familiar with the issue.




............ Phil

 

[Rod Speed]

Don Klipstein <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbmqb86.7j4.don@manx.misty.com...

Rod Speed wrote
Vermin <void@nowhere.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Vermin <void@nowhere.com> wrote
Jackie <noreply@bigpond.com> wrote

What is that fine black 'dust' one sees inside
monitors when the case is removed?

Just curious

Cooked skin mostly (carbonised dust).

Dont believe it. Its too fine for that and the distribution
inside the outer case doesnt fit that either.

It's not caused by arcing or my Tesla coil would be covered in soot.

Correct, and you dont get that soot with those.

Its gotta be coming from the FBT, because
its always on the case adjacent to that.

Cant be cooked skin either, but that area where
the you get the soot in a monitor isnt usually
where there is all that much airflow thru the case.

The source has to be the epoxy on the FBT.

I have seen the "sooty" black dust with that "TV-electrical
odor" in fluorescent fixtures in a restaurant.

I dont get that myself on the flourescent fixture in my kitchen.

All there is on that is some brown fatty crud on the upward facing
surface, and I know that thats the fat in the air from cooking steaks.
I cook them with the griller as hot as I can get it, and you do get
a bit of a grey smoke haze from the burning fat in the air.

Whats on the flourescent fixture is nothing like the
black soot you get on the inside surface of the monitor
case adjacent to the FTB and on the FBT itself.

My hypothesis is oxidized and maybe dark-dirt-coated
particles of grease/vegetable-oil/etc., maybe oxidized.

Yes, thats one description of what I do get on the upper
surface of the flourescent fixture in the kitchen, but thats
nothing like what we're discussing in monitors.

Maybe smoke particles of some kind, which
are sometimes greasy/tarry in nature.

Yep, but thats greasy and nothing like jet black.

And these sootier appearing particles seem to be attracted to
TVs and some fluorescent fixtures, as opposed to other forms
of dust not being so attracted to high voltage electric things.

Dunno, I do get quite a bit of dust on all the front surfaces
of all the monitors and TVs, but its just dust colored, not
the jet black soot you get inside the monitor.

I have known black dust to accumulate on TV screen surfaces
sometimes, and larger quantities of this dust when wiped with a
paper towel often have the "black-dust-from-the-inside-of-a-TV" odor.

Mine isnt anything like jet black. But then its not a black
soil area, the dirt around here is very brown, almost reddish.

 

[Rod Speed]

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6d3900$0$28118$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

You only see that jet black crud in a monitor adjacent to the FBT.

Bullshit - it gets all over the back of the CRT,
the ultor lead and the insides of the case.

Wrong.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message news:slrnbmqchi.7j4.don@manx.misty.com...

In article <bkfjs2$1b6c6$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de>, Rod Speed wrote:

DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote
in message news:kl8lmv0tnhfesdrbjtiu5m1ajcu40dhedg@4ax.com...
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Vermin <void@nowhere.com> wrote
Jackie <noreply@bigpond.com> wrote

What is that fine black 'dust' one sees inside
monitors when the case is removed?

Just curious

Cooked skin mostly (carbonised dust).

Dont believe it. Its too fine for that and the distribution
inside the outer case doesnt fit that either.

Actually, it is dust from your local region that collects any moisture
in the air after it has been attracted to, and attached to whatever
surfaces of whatever charged devices are in the monitor case.

Doesnt explain why its black soot.

You certainly get the effect you are talking about on the front
face glass of the monitor and TVs, but its just dust colored.

Not that I want to be caught agreeing with DarkMatter on anything, but
I have both seen and heard of enough black dust on TV/monitor faces.

Thats not the jet black soot you get on the inside of the case adjacent
to the FTB with what you do get on the outside glass tube surface.

Presumably you get that in black soil areas where the dust is very dark.

The dust around here is reddish brown and thats what
builds up on the outside front surface of the tube, due to
electrostatic attraction. I still get that jet black soot on
the inside of the case near the FBT, so that cant just be dust.

Even dust with the odor of that accumulating in the flyback
transformer area. My hypothesis is greasy/stick/tarry particles,

The black soot on the inside of the monitor case near the FBT
isnt sticky/tarry/greasy at all, its completely dry to the touch.

So is the dust that gets electrostatically attracted
to the front surface of the tube, just a completely
different color and coarser/more gritty to the feel.

maybe with a thin coating of soot or other fine carbon particles.

And conductive particles can have a net
charge as well as nonconductive ones.

Sure.

My suspicion is that some sort of black dust particle,

Cant be around here where the dust aint black.

probably mostly made of some sort of grease or tar,

Cant be that either, it isnt greasy or tarry.

has a tendency to be charged one way or
another and be attracted to TVs, monitors, etc.

Doesnt explain why is noticeably concentrated
on the inside case surface adjacent to the FTB.

 

[Rod Speed]

Don Klipstein <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in
message news:slrnbmqd0a.7j4.don@manx.misty.com...

Rod Speed wrote

Easy to claim. Have fun explaining why it
aint where the airflow is inside a monitor.

Airflow inside a monitor case is convective, dipshit.

Duh, fuckwit.

It is also electrostatically influenced.

Pigs arse it is.

I have plenty of experience saying it is electrostatically influenced!

Not the convection airflow it isnt.

If you have ever seen an electrostatic
air moving device, you would know that.

Taint what moves the air in a monitor.

AND that black stuff is nothing like the
dust that ALSO ends up in the monitor.

The dust in question sure accumulates where airflow speed is low!

Yes, but the airflow speed isnt just low adjacent to the FBT.

You dont get it on the opposing inside case
surface where the airflow is just as low.

Besides, the attracting force for the dust
is for the dust in question and not for air!

Yes, thats what I was saying right at the top. There
is no electrostatic effect on the convection airflow.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message news:slrnbmqcom.7j4.don@manx.misty.com...

In article <bkiis1$27dn0$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de>, Rod Speed wrote:

For what it's worth, the worst example of this black crap is what I
encountered during my days as a broadcasting technician servicing
large transmitters. During our weekly maintenance, we would have to
clean this soot from the sockets and cooling fins of the forced air
cooled transmitter tubes. From memory I can tell you that this was not
a fun job, particularly when you're standing inside of the transmitter
and trusting in the interlocks preventing anyone from powering the
thing up while you're hand cleaning the fins of a 50KW transmitter
tube!

I've noticed that some people in this thread simply don't want to
accept the fact that this black crap is simply particulate drawn out
of the air by the presence of electrostatic fields, but that is all it is.

Easy to claim. Have fun explaining why it
aint where the airflow is inside a monitor.

Higher airflow may keep the particles from sticking!

Doesnt explain why you dont get those particles
sticking on the opposite side of the case with the
same airflow as the area adjacent to the FBT.

I see this dust normally accumulating in high electric field
areas that are not subject to airflow from fans or the like.

It isnt dust. Its a completely different color to dust here. Its soot.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkjf15$2d761$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6d3900$0$28118$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

You only see that jet black crud in a monitor adjacent to the FBT.

Bullshit - it gets all over the back of the CRT,
the ultor lead and the insides of the case.

Wrong.

** It does, every TV and monitor tech has had to laboriously clean it off
many times.

You have obviously never seen it and are discussing a DIFFERENT
problem.




.............. Phil

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:31:23 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

Dust ends up in PC regardless of moisture and or
tars and is anything like the color of the black stuff in
monitors. So it cant be just dust as some have claimed.

It is dust. It just happens to take on a different color than the
dust accumulations in PCs. Also, there could have been an epoxy
encapsulated device that failed in the unit.

You are irrelevant.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:36:45 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

Some entirely appropriately named pathetic excuse
for a bullshit artist desperately cowering behind
DarkBrown Matter <DarkBrownMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote

^^^^^^^
This is the kind of baby bullshit that tags you perfectly for the
adolescent twit that you are.

in message news:ao1qmv40idtl6peac3qf06nkh4gi4qv55h@4ax.com...
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
DarkBrownMatter <DarkBrownMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote

A smoker actually reduces his CRT lifespan in his home for
this reason. It blankets things such that they don't dissipate
their generated heat as well, leading to pre-mature failure.

Dont buy that either. No evidence that PCs used by smokers
fail prematurely. The only exception to that is that the optical
drives can end up with an invisible film on the laser with
smokers and what appears to be a faulty drive will in fact
work fine if you clean the lens with isopropyl alcohol etc.

You're an idiot. That has been established.

Even you should be able to bullshit your way out of
your predicament better than that pathetic effort, child.

I'm sorry, but your pathetic "Don't buy that," is about as retarded
as it gets, considering the well documented effects on smoking in TVs
for decades, boy. You are the child.

Proven again here by virtue of the fact that you actually believe that
a coated surface dissipates heat as fast as an uncoated surface.

Never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that.

Yes, you did. I said that it affects lifespan, and you said "Don't
buy that." Sorry asswipe, but facts are facts.

PCs dont generally rely on heat passive
heat dissipation much, so the effect of smoke
or just dust isnt what causes them to fail.

Dumbfuk the discussion is about MONITORS!

You are an idiot.

You are a fuckwit.

You are an adolescent twit, AND a snake oil salesman. You have the
credibility of a freshly laid turd.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:40:54 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

It is also electrostatically influenced.

Pigs arse it is.

Proof again that you know nothing about electrostatic fields, or how
they act upon "air".

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:40:54 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

Reams of your puerile silly shit any 3 year old
could leave for dead flushed where it belongs.

This adolescent baby bullshit is what I tagged you as a troll wussy
fuck with in sci.physics.

Yer lame ass is a putz, and a puke, boy. You be troll.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkjb7e$2c6i5$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6d1c7b$0$18592$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Harry Conover <hhc314@yahoo.com> wrote

Dust ends up in PC regardless of moisture and or
tars and is anything like the color of the black stuff in
monitors. So it cant be just dust as some have claimed.

No one claimed it was simply dust.

Obvious lie. Harry did just that.

** The word was "some" and who is Harry ???


BTW The stinking Robot is cross-posting his answers to increase the
mess.




............ Phil

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:58:30 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6d2420$0$28119$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
MC <mc@non.existant.place> wrote

Dust ends up in PC regardless of moisture and or
tars and is anything like the color of the black stuff in
monitors. So it cant be just dust as some have claimed.

** No one claimed it was simply dust.

It is soot - the residue of burnt air borne particles.


As others have stated, it is airborne particulate matter from
various sources that accumulates.

** That is what I stated:

" ** IME it can be one or more of the following:

1. Residue of cigarette smoke collected by the EHT wiring.
2. Photocopier toner dust similarly collected - if a copier is nearby.
3. House dust collected and carbonised by the huge voltage gradients
around the EHT wiring.
Horrible stuff in all cases.

............ Phil "



it is not *always* burnt stuff.,


** Yes it is.

The voltage HT carbonises it, turning it into soot.

Have fun explaining why you dont get that
on the HT lead from the FBT to the tube.

Or with Tesla coils either.

Game, set and match.

Yer a fucking idiot. This baby bullshit proves it. "Game set and
match" How fucking childish and lame can you be?

Hey! Retard boy! Yes, YOU! RODDY DIPSHIT!

Monitors are left on for hours on end. Tesla coils are rarely
turned on for more than a few seconds at a time as they are definite
FCC violations, you diphsit FUK!

Game,set, and match, my ass. You want a match, go look at a big
cowpie, then go look in a mirror.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:59:32 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

And you dont get that black soot inside an electrical
heater where there is something to burn the dust.

Dipshit. Electrical heaters radiate huge amounts of IR and air
convection currents as well. No dust gets anywhere near them.
ELECTRICAL FIELDS are a completely different story, however, you DUMB
FUCK!

 

[Phil Allison]

"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>

Monitors are left on for hours on end. Tesla coils are rarely
turned on for more than a few seconds at a time as they are definite
FCC violations,

** EHT systems in TVs etc are all DC, Tesla coils produce high frequency
AC.

But rusty old Robots have no clue about things like that.




............. Phil

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:59:50 +0000 (UTC), don@manx.misty.com (Don
Klipstein) Gave us:

In article <0j1qmvo48pu1ot4m17e893690saa6ae2d6@4ax.com>, DarkMatter wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:30:58 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
Gave us:

You get it right thru PCs too, basically because the fans move
it thru the PC. In other words they dont need to be charged.

Most monitors are non forced air cooled devices. That is the topic.

Most PCs are forced air devices, and that is an entirely different
subject.

Particulate carried by forced air IMPACTS on surfaces. If said
surfaces have moisture, and or tars from cigarettes on them, then
particulate is going to stick.

Natural/unforced convection will also make sticky particles stick onto
surfaces. Less than with forced air, but it does happen!

Of course.