What's that black dust in monitors?

[Phil Allison]

"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:fc5mmvsetpd9tkv84aph8nngtcjn8lvaa1@4ax.com...

** I was alluding to the chemical reactivness of soot particles -
eg
soot from a fire in a fibreglass PCB leaves dark stains on plated metal
surfaces that cannot be removed with solvents.


http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=pyrolysis

** Huh ? The metal chassis is stone cold.



............ Phil

 

[Rod Speed]

Harry Conover <hhc314@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ce4e226.0309191439.30635ab1@posting.google.com...

Jackie <noreply@bigpond.com> wrote

What is that fine black 'dust' one sees inside
monitors when the case is removed?

Just curious

Jackie, it's simply micron sized particles of various airborne
contaminants that are captured or precipitated out by the
strong electrostatic fields that exist within the monitor's case.

Nope, there isnt that much black soot in room for that to be the source.

It's a pretty basic concept, so I'm a bit surprised
that no one has posted this explanation earlier.

They did, and its just plain wrong. You certainly do get some
of that accumulating on the front of the glass tube that way,
but that aint black, its just dirt colored, as you can prove
trivially by wiping the screen with a damp white cloth.

What ends up on the inside of the
monitor case is MUCH blacker than that.

If you watch the TV ads for Sharper Image's air purifier, which
is simply an overpriced electrostatic precipitator, you see them
wiping the same black stuff off of the outside of the collector plate.

It aint anything like as black as whats inside the monitor case.

(Strangely they never show you how to clean the same
crap off from the inside of the collector assembly!)

You will find the same stuff accumulating in any
equipment where strong electrostatic fields exist.

What accumulates on the front of the
glass tube is completely different in color.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkfk2s$1atka$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6aaa85$0$28122$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote

This is why all military CRTs had fully potted HV supplies,
and an oversized anode lead such that less corona is
generated, and dust isn't as big a factor. Next to none
on a supply that has a full faraday cage around it.

That may be so unless the air is full of photocopier toner
particles - as when a busy office copier is sited next to the PCs.

Sure but this is a red herring.

** No stupid - it is ONE of the common sources of particles in an
office.

And its not cigarette smoke either.

** Particles are particles - smoke is another source.

In the case I saw all the insides of the monitors
and the PC's PSUs with coated in the black stuff.


Yes, but you still get that with monitors that have
never ever been used anywhere near any photocopier.

** Toner is unique and obvious once you know.




.............. Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Harry Conover" <hhc314@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ce4e226.0309191439.30635ab1@posting.google.com...

Jackie <noreply@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:<3F696698.9050303@bigpond.com>...
What is that fine black 'dust' one sees inside monitors when the case is
removed?

Just curious

Jackie

Jackie, it's simply micron sized particles of various airborne
contaminants that are captured or precipitated out by the strong
electrostatic fields that exist within the monitor's case.

It's a pretty basic concept, so I'm a bit surprised that no one has
posted this explanation earlier.

" ** IME it can be one or more of the following:

1. Residue of cigarette smoke collected by the EHT wiring.
2. Photocopier toner dust similarly collected - if a copier is nearby.
3. House dust collected and carbonised by the huge voltage gradients
around the EHT wiring.
Horrible stuff in all cases."


** So you missed this one ???




.............. Phil

 

[Rod Speed]

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6b951f$0$4191$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote

This is why all military CRTs had fully potted HV supplies,
and an oversized anode lead such that less corona is
generated, and dust isn't as big a factor. Next to none
on a supply that has a full faraday cage around it.

That may be so unless the air is full of photocopier toner
particles - as when a busy office copier is sited next to the PCs.

Sure but this is a red herring.

No stupid - it is ONE of the common
sources of particles in an office.

Not common at all, particularly with monitors used at home.

And its not cigarette smoke either.

Particles are particles - smoke is another source.

Neither are that black in the average home.

When you cant manage to explain where the
black soot comes from in a monitor used in the
home with no photocopier, no smokers, no smoke
from any non electrical heater at all, your theory
on where it comes from has a massive problem.

Its THAT situation that matters, where it cant
be coming from where waffled on about.

In the case I saw all the insides of the monitors
and the PC's PSUs with coated in the black stuff.

Yes, but you still get that with monitors that have
never ever been used anywhere near any photocopier.

Toner is unique and obvious once you know.

Pity it doesnt explain where that black soot
is coming from with monitors that have never
ever had a photocopier anywhere near them.
And that just happens to be heaps of monitors
which ALL have that black soot inside the case.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:57:21 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

Its gotta be coming from the FBT, because
its always on the case adjacent to that.

That is also where the most field is. DOH! Follow the HV pathways,
and generating element, and one will find where the most proliferant
accumulations of particulate are. They don't come *from* the flyback,
they collect around it, and other of the HV elements in the system.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkg7ic$1ga5e$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message

That may be so unless the air is full of photocopier toner
particles - as when a busy office copier is sited next to the PCs.

Sure but this is a red herring.

No stupid - it is ONE of the common
sources of particles in an office.

Not common at all, particularly with monitors used at home.

** See the word "office" - fuckwit ?

And its not cigarette smoke either.

Particles are particles - smoke is another source.


Neither are that black in the average home.

** The HV gradient near the EHT stuff carbonises the particles -
fuckwit.

When you cant manage to explain where the
black soot comes from in a monitor used in the
home ...

** Normal house dust is slowly *carbonised* by the huge static field
around the HV parts





............ Phil

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 05:06:10 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

And its not cigarette smoke either. Thats got a
characteristic stink to it so you can tell which PCs
are used by smokers as soon as you open them.
Presumably its the tars you are smelling.

Yes. It is the tars that have accumulated on the dust that has
accumulated on the charged surfaces inside the monitor.

A smoker actually reduces his CRT lifespan in his home for this
reason. It blankets things such that they don't dissipate their
generated heat as well, leading to pre-mature failure.

 

[Mark Harriss]

Hey Rod,
I've seen this black film inside brand new
unused thermal faxes, new photocopiers still in the box,
new plain paper faxes with toner or carbon film and
new faulty monitors brought back for warranty repairs.
So it's on the inside of brand new equipment mainly
stuck to inside of the plastic moulded cases.

Copier toner is usually polystyrene mixed with
carbon black, these particles that appear to me to be
grittier than this coating.

I understand they wash mouldings at the factory
after making them, possibly the water gets a bit filthy
in the cleaning tank and leaves a soapy residue over the
moulding. They'd clean the outside after assembly which
leaves the inside dirty.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:03:50 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

Vermin <void@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:00tmmv06c4nithatp373vmbodd5u99fi85@4ax.com...
Rod Speed rod_speed@yahoo.com wrote

Cant be cooked skin either, but that area where
the you get the soot in a monitor isnt usually
where there is all that much airflow thru the case.

The source has to be the epoxy on the FBT.

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/broken.trout/DSCF0015.jpg

Shit you're ugly, specially those red eyes |-)

That's not me dumbass.

Corse you would claim that now, dumbarse.

Since we are in a High Voltage group, you are an idiot.

 

[Rod Speed]

DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in

message news:4p8nmvo3en9j93nb3m24h40lh8f19cb94o@4ax.com...
Rod Speed rod_speed@yahoo.com wrote

Its gotta be coming from the FBT, because
its always on the case adjacent to that.

That is also where the most field is. DOH!

Nope, not on the inside surface of the case it aint.

Follow the HV pathways, and generating element, and one will
find where the most proliferant accumulations of particulate are.

Using fancy words doesnt explain why you dont get a lot
more on the FBT itself than on the inside surface of the case.

They don't come *from* the flyback, they collect
around it, and other of the HV elements in the system.

Pity the inside surface of the case doesnt qualify.

 

[Rod Speed]

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6ba3bf$0$4191$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote

That may be so unless the air is full of photocopier toner
particles - as when a busy office copier is sited next to the PCs.

Sure but this is a red herring.

No stupid - it is ONE of the common
sources of particles in an office.

Not common at all, particularly with monitors used at home.

See the word "office" - fuckwit ?

Completely irrelevant when all monitors used in
the home have that black soot inside their cases.

And its not cigarette smoke either.

Particles are particles - smoke is another source.

Neither are that black in the average home.

The HV gradient near the EHT stuff carbonises the particles

Not even physically possible, and doesnt explain why
you dont get that much worse with Tesla coils etc.

When you cant manage to explain where the
black soot comes from in a monitor used in the
home with no photocopier, no smokers, no smoke
from any non electrical heater at all, your theory
on where it comes from has a massive problem.

Its THAT situation that matters, where it cant
be coming from where you waffled on about.

Normal house dust is slowly *carbonised*
by the huge static field around the HV parts

Not even physically possible, and doesnt explain why
you dont get that much worse with Tesla coils etc.

 

[Rod Speed]

Mark Harriss <ningauble@REMOVETHISbigpond.com> wrote in
message news:NZNab.113090$bo1.58509@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

I've seen this black film inside brand new unused thermal faxes,

I havent, and they dont even have the high
voltages that is claimed to be what produces it.

new photocopiers still in the box, new
plain paper faxes with toner or carbon film

Thats just the toner.

and new faulty monitors brought back for warranty repairs.

Yep, its coming from the FBT.

So it's on the inside of brand new equipment mainly
stuck to inside of the plastic moulded cases.

You dont get it with PC cases, or inkject printers, etc etc etc.

Copier toner is usually polystyrene mixed with carbon black,

Well, some form of plastic thats fused to the paper, anyway.

these particles that appear to me to be grittier than this coating.

Yep. The black soot you get inside a
monitor case is particularly soft and fine.

Its much softer and finer than the dust you get on the
outside of the glass monitor tube and much blacker too.

I understand they wash mouldings at the factory after
making them, possibly the water gets a bit filthy in the
cleaning tank and leaves a soapy residue over the moulding.

Dont believe that.

They'd clean the outside after assembly which leaves the inside dirty.

Dont believe it.

 

[Rod Speed]

DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in
message news:hv8nmvkbhjcdtt8us1mau4kghi6qbkbtbt@4ax.com...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

And its not cigarette smoke either. Thats got a
characteristic stink to it so you can tell which PCs
are used by smokers as soon as you open them.
Presumably its the tars you are smelling.

Yes. It is the tars that have accumulated on the dust that
has accumulated on the charged surfaces inside the monitor.

You get it right thru PCs too, basically because the fans move
it thru the PC. In other words they dont need to be charged.

A smoker actually reduces his CRT lifespan in his home for
this reason. It blankets things such that they don't dissipate
their generated heat as well, leading to pre-mature failure.

Dont buy that either. No evidence that PCs used by smokers
fail prematurely. The only exception to that is that the optical
drives can end up with an invisible film on the laser with
smokers and what appears to be a faulty drive will in fact
work fine if you clean the lens with isopropyl alcohol etc.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkgdk5$1dpc0$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message


See the word "office" - fuckwit ?

Completely irrelevant

** Very relevant to offices - as I stated!!!

The HV gradient near the EHT stuff carbonises the particles

Not even physically possible,

** How would a rusty technical ignoramous like you know ?

Normal house dust is slowly *carbonised*
by the huge static field around the HV parts

Not even physically possible,

** The Robot is stuck in a loop, stuck in a loop ........




................ Phil

 

[Bob the builder]

** That may be so unless the air is full of photocopier toner
articles -
as when a busy office copier is sited next to the PCs. In the case I
saw
all the insides of the monitors and the PC's PSUs with coated in the
black
stuff.


Yes, and just like clean dry dust, it is a non conductive,
dielectric even material that will be attracted to any surface that
does not have a net zero charge.

Non conductive? Bullshit, considering the main ingredient is Iron oxide, the
only non conductive toner is the 100% efficient transfer stuff found in some
laser printers. Some copiers have a separate supply of microscopic diamond
shaped iron particles known as Developer, obviously the toner in these
machines contains no iron oxide but it still gets into the air.

 

[The real Andy]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkfj2h$14csb$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

Seen it in heaps of electronic products.

You dont get the same effect with quite a bit
of that black soot on the inside of the monitor
case with other electronic products except TVs.

Bullshit. I just opened my faulty VCR a few days ago. Guess what was there??
Black soot. That is just one example, i have more if you require.

 

[Rod Speed]

The real Andy <ihatehifitrolls@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f6bd423$0$28118$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

Seen it in heaps of electronic products.

You dont get the same effect with quite a bit
of that black soot on the inside of the monitor
case with other electronic products except TVs.

Bullshit. I just opened my faulty VCR a few
days ago. Guess what was there?? Black soot.

None in any of mine and I've had them all open at times.

I only have electrical heating.

That is just one example, i have more if you require.

What sort of heating/cooking.

 

[Phil Allison]

"The real Andy" <ihatehifitrolls@yahoo.com.au>

Bullshit. I just opened my faulty VCR a few days ago. Guess what was
there??
Black soot. That is just one example, i have more if you require.

** Some resistors slowly emit fine black soot when running hot - will
coat nearby surfaces.

Takes years to build up.



............ Phil

 

[Martin, VK2UMJ]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkd0ok$b2tq$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...

snip

Its actually the result of arcing, and much worse when the FBT is dying.

Horrible stuff in all cases.

Wont do you any harm.

Not this week anyway, but the way things go give it a while and some goody
goody group, somewhere, will conduct tests that show that this dust is, in
fact, directly responsible for all deaths resulting from something or
other...............

;-))

Cheers