What sucks about flux

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:18:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 06:22:52 +0100, Tony Williams
tonyw@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <qi9lf19ur6rlruqpemhe0s16arh14vr86n@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

What? Was that like my Dauphine? I'd get in with my left leg
hanging out and "back it out" of my space at Moto. Then I'd
straighten it up in the aisle and then "run with it" for 20-30
feet, jump in and pop the clutch ;-)

Yeah, I could do that with my Sprite, but likely it was easier to jump
in. You could also drive it any distance with no clutch, which it
turns out you had to do fairly often... kill the engine, shift to
first, hit the starter, heel-and-toe after that. Not synchromesh in
first made it more challenging.

John

 

[Tony Williams]

In article <xpSKe.1115$O07.751@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>,
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Did the push trick a few times but the 2CV all had a crank, even
the last ones built in 1990. Best of all this old engine in
there got me around 50mpg (on swill...) despite the fact that
the engine design was from around WW2, possibly a little before.
Newer ones had a larger engine and 23 horses instead of my 16.

AFAIR the 2CV was nearly ready for production before WW2,
but was then put on hold for the duration.

The claimed original spec was "that it should be able to
carry a farmer, his wife, and a sack of potatoes across a
ploughed field". This was why it had that very clever,
(but very complicated), long-travel suspension.

--
Tony Williams.

 

[Paul Burke]

Joerg wrote:

In some areas
of Europe the horn is the most important part of a car and the turn
signal is the least used.

Sounds like Paris or Rome. Certainly not law- abiding Germany, and not
the UK. Did your 2CV (which I undertand stands for deux cheveux, two
hair- power) have the later blinking light indicators, or the earlier
little semaphore arm, that usually got stuck, and even when it worked
perfectly was practically invisible?

Paul Burke

 

[Paul Burke]

Tony Williams wrote:

AFAIR the 2CV was nearly ready for production before WW2,
but was then put on hold for the duration.

The prototype was actually water cooled. Development continued secretly
during the war, a sort of passive resistance, as it meant they weren't
working for the nazis.

The claimed original spec was "that it should be able to
carry a farmer, his wife, and a sack of potatoes across a
ploughed field". This was why it had that very clever,
(but very complicated), long-travel suspension.

It's also pretty good at alps, the sides of houses, and with the seats
being removable canvas deckchair sort of things, carrying pigs,
chickens, even sheep. Just remember not to go too fast round corners.

Paul Burke

 

[Joerg]

Hello Paul,

Sounds like Paris or Rome. ...

That's the kind of place where I got my first practical driving
experience and it took a while to realize that this ain't kosher in
other parts of Europe.

... Did your 2CV (which I undertand stands for deux cheveux, two
hair- power) have the later blinking light indicators, or the earlier
little semaphore arm, that usually got stuck, and even when it worked
perfectly was practically invisible?

It had the light, no semaphore. Mine was a 1969 model. The usual way of
indicating that you wanted to change lanes in many countries was to
dangle your arm out the window. If you were inclined to indicate, that is.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Hello Tony,

AFAIR the 2CV was nearly ready for production before WW2,
but was then put on hold for the duration.

The claimed original spec was "that it should be able to
carry a farmer, his wife, and a sack of potatoes across a
ploughed field". This was why it had that very clever,
(but very complicated), long-travel suspension.

There was another requirement: A carton of eggs on the rear bench was
supposed to arrive unharmed after barreling over a dirt road.

The suspension was the best I ever had in a car. You could even adjust
the damping factor without special tools.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Hello Paul,

It's also pretty good at alps, the sides of houses, and with the seats
being removable canvas deckchair sort of things, carrying pigs,
chickens, even sheep. Just remember not to go too fast round corners.

I carried a huge fridge/freezer in mine because the proud owner of a VW
bus absolutely could not maneuver it in there. I just removed the canvas
top, the trunk lid (which simply slides out to the side) and its support
(two Philips screws). Of course, acceleration from 0-35mph took several
minutes.

It was pretty good cornering. You just have to get used to the extreme
listing. Once on a snowy winter day I zipped along a country road and
passed a BMW. The driver did not appreciate being passed by such a
measly vehicle and tried to keep up. In a curve that wasn't that tight
he finally spun out. Missing his headlights in the rear view I turned
around and asked if he needed a hand to get his car back on the road.
"Absolutely not", was his firm reply.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Fred Abse]

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:18:43 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

I bought mine at Luby Chevrolet in Boston in June of 1961. By June of
1962, when I graduated, it already had a few small rust spots.

I drove it to Arizona where the extreme heat and dryness turned the
brown rust to a gray color, and corrosion stopped completely ;-)

At least that saved it from the ultimate fate that befell quite a few -
breaking apart somewhere under the windshield. The early warning was doors
coming open on cornering.

Presumably you got away without the water in the oil problem, too (wet
liners sitting on paper gaskets)

Not to mention the propensity to leave the road backwards on quite gentle
curves at quite low speeds.



--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:59:56 +0100, Paul Burke wrote:

Did your 2CV (which I undertand stands for deux cheveux, two
hair- power)

ROTFLMAO!

have the later blinking light indicators, or the earlier
little semaphore arm, that usually got stuck, and even when it worked
perfectly was practically invisible?

Or the semi-centrifugal clutch that pinned a buddy of mine against a wall
when he left it in gear and went around the front to get something from
the back of the garage?

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Joerg]

Hello Fred,

Or the semi-centrifugal clutch that pinned a buddy of mine against a wall
when he left it in gear and went around the front to get something from
the back of the garage?

The Citroen 2CV? I never saw any like that. When did they build those?
The 2CV typically (maybe always) had a four speed, regular clutch and
the gears were located a bit reversed. 1st was left and back, 2nd was
forward etc. Like some Datsuns except that the 2CV didn't have a 5th
gear. The stick came straight out of the middle of the dash and looked
like a cane.

A car that had a centrifugal clutch was the Dutch DAF and very few small
Volvos after they bought DAF and produced them there. That's the only
case I know of.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Pooh Bear]

Paul Burke wrote:

Joerg wrote:

In some areas
of Europe the horn is the most important part of a car and the turn
signal is the least used.

Sounds like Paris or Rome. Certainly not law- abiding Germany, and not
the UK. Did your 2CV (which I undertand stands for deux cheveux, two
hair- power)

Deux chevaux ( 2 horses ) my friend.

See the 'old way' of rating horsepower.

have the later blinking light indicators, or the earlier
little semaphore arm, that usually got stuck, and even when it worked
perfectly was practically invisible?

Like Joerg, I've never seen those on a 2CV. Too complicated for one I'd
have thought. I do recall them on cars like the Austin A35.

Graham

 

[Pooh Bear]

Paul Burke wrote:

Tony Williams wrote:

AFAIR the 2CV was nearly ready for production before WW2,
but was then put on hold for the duration.


The prototype was actually water cooled. Development continued secretly
during the war, a sort of passive resistance, as it meant they weren't
working for the nazis.

The claimed original spec was "that it should be able to
carry a farmer, his wife, and a sack of potatoes across a
ploughed field". This was why it had that very clever,
(but very complicated), long-travel suspension.


It's also pretty good at alps, the sides of houses, and with the seats
being removable canvas deckchair sort of things, carrying pigs,
chickens, even sheep. Just remember not to go too fast round corners.

Actually they are reputedly virually unrollable. They just happen to lean
too much in corners for passenger comfort.

Graham

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> schreef in bericht
news:JEuLe.11319$O07.10923@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...

Hello Fred,

Or the semi-centrifugal clutch that pinned a buddy of mine against a
wall
when he left it in gear and went around the front to get something from
the back of the garage?

The Citroen 2CV? I never saw any like that. When did they build those?
The 2CV typically (maybe always) had a four speed, regular clutch and
the gears were located a bit reversed. 1st was left and back, 2nd was
forward etc. Like some Datsuns except that the 2CV didn't have a 5th
gear. The stick came straight out of the middle of the dash and looked
like a cane.

A car that had a centrifugal clutch was the Dutch DAF and very few small
Volvos after they bought DAF and produced them there. That's the only
case I know of.

Memories... I parked my fathers' DAF66 against a tree, at 90 KM/Hr. He
bought
a Volvo66 to replace it.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 22:02:01 +0100, Fred Abse
<excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote:

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:18:43 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

I bought mine at Luby Chevrolet in Boston in June of 1961. By June of
1962, when I graduated, it already had a few small rust spots.

I drove it to Arizona where the extreme heat and dryness turned the
brown rust to a gray color, and corrosion stopped completely ;-)

At least that saved it from the ultimate fate that befell quite a few -
breaking apart somewhere under the windshield. The early warning was doors
coming open on cornering.

I bought mine in 1961 and sold it in 1968 to a friend. He drove it
for nearly another ten years before breaking a tooth off a gear.

Presumably you got away without the water in the oil problem, too (wet
liners sitting on paper gaskets)

I was the ultimate nerd/geek in those days, nothing but distilled
water in it. Plus I added an oil-filter unit to it from a Caravelle.

Not to mention the propensity to leave the road backwards on quite gentle
curves at quite low speeds.

Only did that once when I was quite inebriated, but it stayed upright
and just rolled backwards into the desert... for those who know the
area, the *square* curve below Pinnacle Peak

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Frank,

A car that had a centrifugal clutch was the Dutch DAF and very few small
Volvos after they bought DAF and produced them there. That's the only
case I know of.

Memories... I parked my fathers' DAF66 against a tree, at 90 KM/Hr. He
bought
a Volvo66 to replace it.

Oops, that probably resulted in some lengthy discussions with your
parents. My mom had a DAF44 with an air cooled boxer engine. What many
people don't know is that they had a variable transmission, no stepped
gear ratios. The forward-reverse handle was merely a mechanical switch
so the car could do the same speed in reverse as it could forward.
Probably not for too long since the engine cooling won't be too efficient.

When I lived in the Netherlands I remember that they had DAF races on TV
where the cars had to be driven in reverse. Lots of rollovers...

This car also had a downhill brake switch. Something similar to a jake
brake.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Hello Graham,

have the later blinking light indicators, or the earlier
little semaphore arm, that usually got stuck, and even when it worked
perfectly was practically invisible?

Like Joerg, I've never seen those on a 2CV. Too complicated for one I'd
have thought. I do recall them on cars like the Austin A35.

And on early VW beetles, the split window kind. The 2CV was a much
simpler car. In an obvious cost reduction effort they mounted the turn
signal as a lantern on the side, eliminating the need to have two
fixtures for each direction. The early ones also had just one brake
light in the middle.

The scary part was the heater on earlier models like mine. There was a
simple handle and a deflector plate. On or off, no in between. The heat
was simply re-directed cooling air from the two cylinders. So you had
better check for leaks very regularly. I think in the 70's they began
installing exhaust heat exchangers.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> schreef in bericht
news:QhGLe.225$AT7.224@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

Hello Frank,

A car that had a centrifugal clutch was the Dutch DAF and very few small
Volvos after they bought DAF and produced them there. That's the only
case I know of.

Memories... I parked my fathers' DAF66 against a tree, at 90 KM/Hr. He
bought
a Volvo66 to replace it.

Oops, that probably resulted in some lengthy discussions with your
parents. My mom had a DAF44 with an air cooled boxer engine. What many

I only had some broozes, quite a miracle. I was lucky that the 25 cm
diameter tree snapped when I hit it. My father went to the place
where the remains had been towed to, not knowing in what shape it
really was. I still see him coming back from that trip, with the car
radio in his hand, as a souvenir. He only asked "are you sure you're
allright?".

people don't know is that they had a variable transmission, no stepped
gear ratios. The forward-reverse handle was merely a mechanical switch
so the car could do the same speed in reverse as it could forward.
Probably not for too long since the engine cooling won't be too efficient.

When I lived in the Netherlands I remember that they had DAF races on TV
where the cars had to be driven in reverse. Lots of rollovers...

This car also had a downhill brake switch. Something similar to a jake
brake.

The reverse races were fantastic Those damn DAF's went as fast in
reverse as in forward. I bet you can't even organize such races anymore,
with everybody getting excited over safety and such.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)

 

[Ian]

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
news:42fe8513$0$1254$e4fe514c@dreader31.news.xs4all.nl...

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> schreef in bericht
news:JEuLe.11319$O07.10923@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
Hello Fred,

Or the semi-centrifugal clutch that pinned a buddy of mine against a
wall
when he left it in gear and went around the front to get something
from
the back of the garage?

The Citroen 2CV? I never saw any like that. When did they build those?
The 2CV typically (maybe always) had a four speed, regular clutch and
the gears were located a bit reversed. 1st was left and back, 2nd was
forward etc. Like some Datsuns except that the 2CV didn't have a 5th
gear. The stick came straight out of the middle of the dash and looked
like a cane.

A car that had a centrifugal clutch was the Dutch DAF and very few small
Volvos after they bought DAF and produced them there. That's the only
case I know of.

Memories... I parked my fathers' DAF66 against a tree, at 90 KM/Hr. He
bought
a Volvo66 to replace it.

Back in the late '60s, police in the Netherlands used DAF's as local patrol
cars.
One winter in Eindhoven they found out the hard way how badly those
centrifugal
clutches behaved on ice - I forget how many crashed, but I believe they
changed
the vehicles they used shortly after.

Regards
Ian

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:14:31 +0000, Joerg wrote:

It had the light, no semaphore. Mine was a 1969 model. The usual way of
indicating that you wanted to change lanes in many countries was to
dangle your arm out the window. If you were inclined to indicate, that is.

Remember to pull it back in, before you turn, or you get gravel rash.

Never drive a 2CV with your elbow out the window ;-)

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:41:53 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 22:02:01 +0100, Fred Abse
excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote:

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:18:43 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

I bought mine at Luby Chevrolet in Boston in June of 1961. By June of
1962, when I graduated, it already had a few small rust spots.

I drove it to Arizona where the extreme heat and dryness turned the
brown rust to a gray color, and corrosion stopped completely ;-)

At least that saved it from the ultimate fate that befell quite a few -
breaking apart somewhere under the windshield. The early warning was doors
coming open on cornering.

I bought mine in 1961 and sold it in 1968 to a friend. He drove it
for nearly another ten years before breaking a tooth off a gear.

AZ climate, I guess.

Presumably you got away without the water in the oil problem, too (wet
liners sitting on paper gaskets)

I was the ultimate nerd/geek in those days, nothing but distilled
water in it. Plus I added an oil-filter unit to it from a Caravelle.

Possibly you never noticed in AZ temperatures. The water evaporated before
it emulsified.

Distilled water might have helped preserve the aluminum block, too.

Not to mention the propensity to leave the road backwards on quite
gentle curves at quite low speeds.

Only did that once when I was quite inebriated, but it stayed upright
and just rolled backwards into the desert... for those who know the
area, the *square* curve below Pinnacle Peak

I think they usually stayed upright. Just lucky if there was nothing in
the way.

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)