What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do

[The Real Bev]

On 11/04/2017 05:49 PM, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 16:33:57 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com
wrote:

I cut my hands to ribbons on the first water pump -- the fan (which had
to be removed) was attached with at least 4 bolts which could only move
1/4 turn without repositioning the 12-point box wrench, the only thing
that would fit. I swore I'd never do that again no matter how much it
cost -- until I found out how much it DID cost. Some of us are too
cheap for our own good.

KD makes a special tool for that - at the value O put on skin and
suffering, cheap at twice the price

30+ years ago. Ratchet box wrench?

The ones I did were simple. The hard part was remembering how the damn
springs on the drums went. I couldn't believe how easy pads were; it
took me longer to find the C-clamp than to do the work :-(

A cell phone camera makes all of that SO much simpler!!!

So would a time machine!

--
Cheers, Bev
"If you like to stand on your head and spit pickles in the snow, on the
Internet there are at least three other people just like you."
- Langston James Goree VI

 

[rickman]

RS Wood wrote on 11/4/2017 11:55 PM:

rickman wrote:

The only plastic that I know of which lasts forever outside is whatever
plastic the garbage company uses for those blue, green, and gray wheeled
bins!

That's your standard? Things have to last "forever"???

I leave plastic stuff outside and within a year or two, it crumbles in my
hands. So two years is too short.

Meanwhile, the garbage bins last forever outside.

Why can they make a garbage bin last forever but not a Costco picnic table?

Because they are making the table to sell at the lowest price while the bin
has a specification. Price, stop buying things based on the price! I bet
you didn't even ask about the materials used in the table. I can assure you
the city who bought the bin asked what it was made of. So the fault,
really, is yours.

I wish *all* plastic things were made out of *that* plastic, especially
pool tools.

You can ask about the materials when you buy stuff. It's not the plastic,
but whether the plastic has UV resistance additives.

Is that what makes those garbage bins last forever outside?
If so, that's what I want in my picnic table from Costco!
And in all the pool equipment.

When you return the table tell them that... and you will be ignored because
they made a lot of money selling the same crap they sold last year in spite
of the few who returned them.

I still have to replace the exhaust system ever four years. That part
hasn't changed. If you know anything about why they fail, you would
understand the only alternative is stainless steel which is *much* more
expensive.

I used to patch mufflers, like we all did.

Illegal because the patches are crap and the rest of the muffler won't last
another six months. My mufflers don't get leaks, the flange breaks off on
the pipe. Try fixing that.

And we all know what a pain it was to get the old ones off.
Forget about those u-bolt nuts ever twisting off.

But I haven't replaced a muffler in decades.
Why?
I'm not sure why.

Because it isn't worth it. When any part of the exhaust system goes bad you
are better off replacing it all.

You could get a stainless steel exhaust system the first time
you replace it, but you would need to keep the vehicle for twenty more years
to make it pay off.

I don't even look at the exhaust anymore, it's that reliable.
I thought the whole thing from the cat back was stainless steel.
Is it not?

No, it's not. It's still the same steel that lasts around 4 years.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[RS Wood]

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Why did we bump the engine? I forget why.
To get the engine in the correct position to agust points, or adjust
valve clearances, usually.

Oh yeah. Thanks for reminding me. I think about those tools once a decade,
but they just sit there otherwise, all packed up neatly.

I forgot about those shims I would slip in to adjust the overhead valves.
And I forgot about getting the distributor in the right place.

That bumper came in handy but you had to remember to pull the center wire!

 

[RS Wood]

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Aluminum conducts heat a lot better than iron or steel, so aluminum
heads allow higher compression ratios without causing detonation than
iron heads. Aluminum is also a lot lighter, reducing fuel consumption.

You bring up pinging, which, I forgot, we now have knock sensors to help
control, so that's likely one more reason for longevity (that is, no
pinging can occur nowadays, at least not until it overpowers the retarding
of the timing that the knock sensors do).

 

[RS Wood]

The Real Bev wrote:

Whenever we see something with a rounded nut or bolt we think "Patrick
was here." Pat is one of my son's friends who NEVER had the right tool.

I think they should make adjustable wrenches illegal.
I can't for the life of me figure out a use for them.

 

[The Real Bev]

On 11/04/2017 08:32 PM, RS Wood wrote:

gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

I understand the magic of computers getting more reliable but what's the
magic in cars getting more reliable?

More quality in the manufacture along with the fact that a lot of the
things that used to fail were replaced by computers that do a far
better job that Mr Venturi.

I'm going to have to agree that I think the only thing that really changed
over time was the quality.

I think Japan took half of Detroit's profits, and that was the sole
determinant that made Detroit start thinking about quality.

If that's the case, you have to hand it to Japan for even coming up with
the idea of quality in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Japan was smart enough to listen to him.

It's rare though for tools to go out of style. I'm still using my first
Christmas gift of Sears Craftsman open-end wrenches, for example.

Back when they were GOOD tools. The last Craftsman tool I bought was a
10mm socket (yeah, I know, like everybody else I have a LOT of them, I
just couldn't find one) -- I peeled some of the chrome off with my
thumbnail.

--
Cheers, Bev
"If you like to stand on your head and spit pickles in the snow, on the
Internet there are at least three other people just like you."
- Langston James Goree VI

 

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:32:24 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

No, it's because of advances in metalurgy, lubrication,
manufacturing, and to a VERY large extent, advances in engine
controls.

I'm not going to disagree that engines seem to last twice what they used
to, but is metallurgy really different? There's a lot more aluminum
nowadays, and certainly too much plastic, but rubber is rubber and steel is
steel and I don't think either got all that much better in the interim.

The aluminum alloying science has made leaps in the last 50 years -
and so has steelmaking and heat treating. Never heard of Cryo
treatment years ago. Never heard of powdered metal either. Lots more
chromium and moly and cobalt etc used in exotic steels today too.

Synthetic rubbers and plastics have also improved in thousands of
ways in the last 50 years. This means seals , belts, hoses, etc can
ALL last MUCH longer than their older counterparts.

Engine controls maybe. But they're mostly emission related nowadays.

Emission management , as I noted previously, does a lot more than make
cleaner air. How do you think we get as much horsepower out of a 2
liter engine today as we got out of 5 or 6 liter engines in the very
recent past???

The actual danger zone parts are the oil pressure sensor, coolant
temperature sensor, oil lever sensor, etc., and I don't think they're all
that sophisticated compared to the days of yore, do you?

The oil pressure sensor has nothing to do with it until the engine
fails. The coolant temp sensors are much more accurate than they used
to be, and now they actually do something more than telling you if the
engine is overheating. The oil level sensor is also an afterthought
and basically un-necessary - as most engines will go over 3000 miles
without using ANY measurable amount of oil.

Lead free gasoline has a LARGE effect on the improvement of engine
life, as along with the lead, phosphorous was also virtually
eliminated in the fuel.
This means a lot less acids in the oil, exhaust, etc.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... really? The fuel contributes to engine life?
I don't dispute. I just don't compute.

I've explained it in another post

With the replacement of carb and choke with EFI, there
is less fuel dilution - and electronic ignition and timing advance
just adds to the improvements. In 1959, the auto was still an
adolescent - it has matured over the ensuing decades in SO many ways.

I don't disagree that the carburetor is gone, thank God, but it's still in
airplanes and they seem to do fine with them (small planes that is).

What is the average MTBF on certified aircraft engines???? Most are
doing good to get over 1500 hours. at 60mph that would be only 90000
miles in a car. Many have the top end rebuilt long before that - or
cyls replaced. They also burn prodigious amounts of oil.

While EFI is great stuff, I don't see that the longevity of an engine is
dependent on the fuel volatilization method.

You don't see it because you do not understand all the implications
of fuel mixture control.

Rust and corrosion control has come SO far, even since the eighties
that there is really no reason a car body should rust today - and the
bodies, although MUCH lighter, do last 2, 3, even 5 times as long.

This one I agree with you on, but I blame Detroit for making crap that they
*knew* was crap. Painting can't be all that sophisticated today compared to
yesterday. It just can't be. They just did a lousy job before, I think.

There again, you have no comprehension of the inticacies of corrosion
control and metal primers etc - not to mention seam sealers. Goes WAY
beyond the surface coating, color and shine.

But then again, painting is a job I never did, so, maybe I didn't learn
anything!

It's more the prep than the paint - but the paint has REALLY changed
in the last 20 years - more rhan in the previous 100.

Car finishes as well - was not uncommon for a 3 or 4 year old car to
require a repaint in the old days - now MOST go to the scrapyard
wearing their original coat of paint - - - - even with water based
paints!!!!

I wish I knew more about painting.

Often TWICE a year - spring and fall tuneups were common.

I agree that points were a weak link that just had to go. I'm not sure why
timing changed, because, as I recall, we twisted the distributor to time
the engine where, the distributor would have no reason to twist back once
locked down.

The timing changed when the points wore, among other things.

I think they also used lower-voltage coils in those days, where the wires
seemed paradoxically to require replacement more often. I remember once
diagnosing a misfire where I accidentally worked until it got dark and then
realized there was a light show going on with all the sparks to ground.

And you don't think plastics and rubbers have changed appreciably for
the better?

Heh heh heh ... working on coils and ignition wires teaches a youngster
with a steel screwdriver a *lot* about electricity wanting to get to
ground!

Even back in the early seventies I was using wires that allowed me to
run my old Chrysler products with a carwash hose trained on the
ignition system. The cheapest wires today are better that those top
quality "space age" wires.

Now, they're "almost" lifetime parts because they don't exist.
Even spark plugs go 100,000 km plus - - -

Oh yeah. I forgot about spark plugs. I had a two-stroke motorcycle, for
example, which couldn't go five hundred miles on a set of plugs.

And unleaded gas is one of the main reasons this is possible today.

Now you can easily go 100K where the technology isn't all that fancy on a
plug. It's just a chunk of platinum-plated metal near a few J hooks of cold
steel. I think the higher voltages helped, which, again, paradoxically,
you'd think the higher coil voltages would eat the plugs faster ... not
slower by the process of electrodialectric machining.

The platinum is a large part of this - you never saw platinum plugs
in the past. Iridium finewire plugs were the hot item for snowmobiles
and bikes back then - and they were PRICEY.

Better design, engine controls, lubricants, and no more leaded gas.

Well, it's *something* that makes car engines last twice what they used to,
but I don't see that we've nailed it yet.

I still think it's simply that Japanaese cars existing made Detroit build
better engines overall.

Believe me, as someone who worked on Toyotas back in the very early
seventies, quality was not their strong point back then They rusted
like a ford (or worse) and they had metalurgy problems in their
aluminum heads, and a lot of other places. What made the difference is
they learned from their mistakes - the Japs have never really been
inventors - but they can refine a poor design into something fantastic
- that's what they do exremely well.

Most did - but there were (natable) exceptions.
Also, how long have you been driving? What is the oldest car you have
owned??

Most of us old timers have at the very least a million miles under our
belts. When we were kids, all our cars started at 10 or 15 years old, where
that was new to us.

Most cars were junk at 10 years back then. People didn't put on the
miles they do today, generally speaking, but I've put a LOT of
vehicles over the 200,000 mile mark in the past.

In my salesman days, a car lasted 3 years, but now I'm back to the 15 or 20
year range since I retired long ago.

Such things change over time.


Luckily, 2WD RWD cars spread out the "stuff" in manageable ways.

They ARE easier to repair - in general.

I found that 2WD RWD cars are a LOT easier, for the most part, and also if
you have the option, the six cylinder options when an 8-cylinder option
exists or the 4 cylinder option when a 6 cylinder option exists is a
Godsend because you have so much more room in that engine bay.

But if they have to work too hard, the bigger engine won't need as
much repair - so it sometimes more than ballances out.

Otherwise, time isn't the issue.
You don't have a wife????

She's somewhere in the garden, not the garage.
The kids have kids already too, so they're off somewhere to play.

She doesn't have a "honey-do" list that, in her mind, takes priority
over the car repairs?? "you haven't got it fixed YET???" -

I get to see them on Thanksgiving though. Thank God for holidays!
You pay for their school. You pay for their grad school.
And then you only get to see them on holidays.
Or when they need their cars fixed!

At least my oldest is back in the country most of the time now -
even though she's only been "home" for about 3 weeks since the middle
of September and she'll only be "home " for about 15 days between now
and Christmas. "home" being about 5 miles from here. She will be in
Africa and Asia the rest of the time (work)

 

[The Real Bev]

On 11/04/2017 08:32 PM, RS Wood wrote:

One more thing, the word "brake warp" or "rotor warp" is banished from your
vocabulary. Anyone who uses those two words, is simply proving they're an
utter fool.

BUT you do need to replace the rotors (wrecking yard is probably OK) if
you kept putting off changing the pads until they stopped squealing and
the backing plates started grinding deep (1/4") grooves into the rotors.
Amazingly enough, braking worked just fine until the hogging-in started.

--
Cheers, Bev
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala,
it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet." -- Anon.

 

[RS Wood]

The Real Bev wrote:

KD makes a special tool for that - at the value O put on skin and
suffering, cheap at twice the price

30+ years ago. Ratchet box wrench?

Speaking of ratchet box wrench, I learned long ago that the "fancy" tools
were worse than the simple tools.

There's nothing wrong with a box wrench. Nothing.

It doesn't need plastic inserts.
It doesn't need a ratcheting mechanism.
It doesn't need replaceable heads.

All that stuff makes it BIGGER (which is bad when it matters).
All that stuff makes it WEAKER (which is bad when it matters).
All that stuff makes it less reliable (which is bad too).

KISS.

 

[RS Wood]

rickman wrote:

Because they are making the table to sell at the lowest price while the bin
has a specification. Price, stop buying things based on the price! I bet
you didn't even ask about the materials used in the table. I can assure you
the city who bought the bin asked what it was made of. So the fault,
really, is yours.

While I'm sure the fault is always mine for buying *anything* but garbage
bins that is made of plastic, I'm not as confident as you that the material
is so easy to figure out.

For one, we still don't know what material the garbage bins are made out of
(coating or otherwise).

So asking wouldn't work unless we knew what answer we wanted to hear.
What I'm saying is that it's not so simple.

I'm also assuming that NOBODY here knows what the answer should be.
Do you?

What chemical are we looking for?

When you return the table tell them that... and you will be ignored because
they made a lot of money selling the same crap they sold last year in spite
of the few who returned them.

Luckily, Costco takes anything back (except electronics), even years later.

I used to patch mufflers, like we all did.

Illegal because the patches are crap and the rest of the muffler won't last
another six months. My mufflers don't get leaks, the flange breaks off on
the pipe. Try fixing that.

I don't disagree. I hated working on mufflers. That was before my gas
welding days.

With a gas welder, removing mufflers would have been a *lot* easier.

Because it isn't worth it. When any part of the exhaust system goes bad you
are better off replacing it all.

Not gonna disagree. It's like replacing "just" the water pump. Once you rip
all that stuff off, you may as well do the thermostat, hoses, radiator,
cap, overflow tank, etc.

I don't even look at the exhaust anymore, it's that reliable.
I thought the whole thing from the cat back was stainless steel.
Is it not?

No, it's not. It's still the same steel that lasts around 4 years.

My bimmer is approaching 20 years on the same exhaust system.

 

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:32:30 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

but with
brakes there's the whole shebang from pads and sensors to calipers and
rotors and bearings and speed sensors, and abs intricacies.

The ones I did were simple. The hard part was remembering how the damn
springs on the drums went. I couldn't believe how easy pads were; it
took me longer to find the C-clamp than to do the work :-(

That's the thing about brakes that gets me.

Most people I know pay upwards of $1K for a 4-wheel brake job at the
dealer, where (a) I would never go to the dealer, and (b) I would never pay
even $100 for someone else to do a brake job.

Most brake jobs are so easy that it's not funny since disc brakes are so
easy to work on that it's not even close to funny. Drum brakes are harder
simply because of the intricacies of the springs, but they're only harder
because disc brakes are so easy.

Pads cost about $50 per set and all you aim for is FF or GG or FG, or
whatever cold/hot heat rating you want. That's another thing about doing a
job yourself, which is parts selection.

If you do it yourself, you have to buy the parts, and if you buy the parts
you figure out what matters.

Most of us follow the same rules for buying parts, do we not?
a. First we figure out what the OEM parts are, and, then,
b. We figure out how much it costs for better parts.

Sometimes the OEM parts are the best, but just as often, the aftermarket
parts are better.

In the case of brake pads, we look up the cold/hot friction ratings for the
OEM pads. Let's say that they're FG. Then we look at the aftermarket for
better pads. Let's say we find GG pads. We look at the cost difference.
And we usually buy the better pad.

As for rotors, there's a truckload of hype around slotted, drilled, drilled
and slotted, etc., where at least motorcycle rotors are stainless steel and
where looks matter a lot. On cars, looks only matter if you have wheels
that show off your brakes, so drilled and slotted or all that other purely
pretty stuff doesn't matter. Solid is the way to go. The cheaper the
better. For example, you can get Brembo rotors for less than the OEM
rotors, where a rotor is a rotor is a rotor.

Not so. There is a BIG difference between some good rotors and some
cheap one - bad metalurfy will cause hard spotting, and glazing and
pitting and warping. The trick is finding the good ones -

About $50 per axle for pads, and about $50 per wheel for rotors, and you're
out the door with parts (a few dabs of high-temperature grease later).

Notice that when you do the work yourself, you LEARN what matters. If
you're smart about it, you don't fall for the marketing hype.

And one more thing. Since you do the work yourself, you buy the tools,
where brake jobs don't necessarily take special tools (although calipers
sometimes need oddball-sized hex wrenches on German cars).

Or retractor tools for rear disc brakes with integral e-brakes.

All you need is a mic to measure thickness and a dial gauge and stand to
measure runout, and if you're doing drums, two types of brake-spring
pliers, and you're good to go with tools.

One more thing, the word "brake warp" or "rotor warp" is banished from your
vocabulary. Anyone who uses those two words, is simply proving they're an
utter fool.

No, some rotors DO warp. So do some drums. Most "warped" rotors,
however, are either pitted or hard spotted.

That's the kind of stuff you learn by doing the job yourself.

The kind of stuff you learn working on hundreds of cars a year for 1/4
century, and supervizing a shopfull of mechanics for a decade.

 

On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 23:46:34 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

RS Wood wrote on 11/4/2017 5:49 PM:
rickman wrote:

They make things to last as long as the consumer demands. Kids toys were
not all built solidly when we were kids. Tonka was a high priced toy.
Today they still make quality toys. I don't know if Tonka uses UV
stabilizers, but I know there are some kids plastic playhouses that seem to
last for many years outside.

The only plastic that I know of which lasts forever outside is whatever
plastic the garbage company uses for those blue, green, and gray wheeled
bins!

That's your standard? Things have to last "forever"???


I wish *all* plastic things were made out of *that* plastic, especially
pool tools.

You can ask about the materials when you buy stuff. It's not the plastic,
but whether the plastic has UV resistance additives.


Cars didn't get better until the Japanese showed the US consumer there was a
choice. Detroit and Wolfsburg, etc only learned after the Japanese started
eating their lunches.

I think I may tend to agree with you which is why I mentioned that Japan
may have had a lot to do with Detroit making more reliable cars.

I think also the EPA forcing the manufacturer to warrant the emissions
system for longer periods of time helped.

For example, in the olden days, how many rotted out "mufflers" did you
replace compared to today?

I still have to replace the exhaust system ever four years. That part
hasn't changed. If you know anything about why they fail, you would
understand the only alternative is stainless steel which is *much* more
expensive. You could get a stainless steel exhaust system the first time
you replace it, but you would need to keep the vehicle for twenty more years
to make it pay off.

I have not changed an exhaust system or a muffler in about 20 years -
and my current vehicles are 16 and 22 years old. But then I buy REAL
cars that come with stainless exhausts from the factory.

The last system I had to replace I put on stainless for only a few
bucks more than OEM (Ford Aerostar). Lasted another 140,000 km before
the truck was scrapped.

 

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:55:28 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

rickman wrote:

The only plastic that I know of which lasts forever outside is whatever
plastic the garbage company uses for those blue, green, and gray wheeled
bins!

That's your standard? Things have to last "forever"???

I leave plastic stuff outside and within a year or two, it crumbles in my
hands. So two years is too short.

Meanwhile, the garbage bins last forever outside.

Why can they make a garbage bin last forever but not a Costco picnic table?

Because they need to sell you picnic tables to stay in business. The
garbage collectors smash up the bins so they still get replaced.

I wish *all* plastic things were made out of *that* plastic, especially
pool tools.

You can ask about the materials when you buy stuff. It's not the plastic,
but whether the plastic has UV resistance additives.

Actually, it's both.

Is that what makes those garbage bins last forever outside?
If so, that's what I want in my picnic table from Costco!

You won'r buy it for $29.99 if it's made of the "good stuff"

And in all the pool equipment.

I still have to replace the exhaust system ever four years. That part
hasn't changed. If you know anything about why they fail, you would
understand the only alternative is stainless steel which is *much* more
expensive.

I used to patch mufflers, like we all did.
And we all know what a pain it was to get the old ones off.
Forget about those u-bolt nuts ever twisting off.

I gave up on patching mufflers after the first one.

But I haven't replaced a muffler in decades.
Why?
I'm not sure why.

You could get a stainless steel exhaust system the first time
you replace it, but you would need to keep the vehicle for twenty more years
to make it pay off.

I don't even look at the exhaust anymore, it's that reliable.
I thought the whole thing from the cat back was stainless steel.
Is it not?

It is on most cars - actually from the manifold back - and often even
the (tubular) manifolds.

 

[RS Wood]

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The aluminum alloying science has made leaps in the last 50 years -
and so has steelmaking and heat treating. Never heard of Cryo
treatment years ago. Never heard of powdered metal either. Lots more
chromium and moly and cobalt etc used in exotic steels today too.

Lots of good stuff there.

Synthetic rubbers and plastics have also improved in thousands of
ways in the last 50 years. This means seals , belts, hoses, etc can
ALL last MUCH longer than their older counterparts.

Good stuff there too.

Emission management , as I noted previously, does a lot more than make
cleaner air. How do you think we get as much horsepower out of a 2
liter engine today as we got out of 5 or 6 liter engines in the very
recent past???

Ok. Good stuff there too.

The oil pressure sensor has nothing to do with it until the engine
fails. The coolant temp sensors are much more accurate than they used
to be, and now they actually do something more than telling you if the
engine is overheating. The oil level sensor is also an afterthought
and basically un-necessary - as most engines will go over 3000 miles
without using ANY measurable amount of oil.

Gotta agree. Mine leaks not a drop.

You don't see it because you do not understand all the implications
of fuel mixture control.

Can't disagree with you.

There again, you have no comprehension of the inticacies of corrosion
control and metal primers etc - not to mention seam sealers. Goes WAY
beyond the surface coating, color and shine.

Gotta be true because rust buckets don't seem to exist anymore.

It's more the prep than the paint - but the paint has REALLY changed
in the last 20 years - more rhan in the previous 100.

See above. No rust buckets anymore so there is truth in there somewhere.

> The timing changed when the points wore, among other things.

Yeah. I forgot. It has been, oh, how long since we adjusted timing?
Decades at the very least.

And you don't think plastics and rubbers have changed appreciably for
the better?
Maybe. I still see lots and lots of buna o-rings that should be viton.

Even back in the early seventies I was using wires that allowed me to
run my old Chrysler products with a carwash hose trained on the
ignition system. The cheapest wires today are better that those top
quality "space age" wires.

Gotta agree with you. Wires don't even exist much at all but those that do
exist, seem to last a long time nowadays. We used to replace ignition wires
with every second or third tuneup, as I recall.

I even bought the set where you cut them and made them to fit.
Dumb idea because they stunk the most.

> And unleaded gas is one of the main reasons this is possible today.

I don't know enough to disagree.
Detergents (polyetheramines) probably helped too, Techron be known.

The platinum is a large part of this - you never saw platinum plugs
in the past. Iridium finewire plugs were the hot item for snowmobiles
and bikes back then - and they were PRICEY.

Must be the platinum because a plug is a simple thing.
I'm sure engineers fret about every little thing, but pretty much you buy
the right one and put it in. I never found anything useful about changing
the heat ratings. It's amazing to me that we don't gap them anymore though.

You'd wonder why the gap mattered in the days of yore and now it doesn't
matter. I don't get that.

Believe me, as someone who worked on Toyotas back in the very early
seventies, quality was not their strong point back then They rusted
like a ford (or worse) and they had metalurgy problems in their
aluminum heads, and a lot of other places. What made the difference is
they learned from their mistakes - the Japs have never really been
inventors - but they can refine a poor design into something fantastic
- that's what they do exremely well.

Yeah. I forgot about my "Z" cars (Datsun days). They were rust buckets.

Most cars were junk at 10 years back then. People didn't put on the
miles they do today, generally speaking, but I've put a LOT of
vehicles over the 200,000 mile mark in the past.

Yep. 10 years was about it. Now it's 20 years.
Double.

But if they have to work too hard, the bigger engine won't need as
much repair - so it sometimes more than ballances out.

Not gonna take you up on this one. There's no such thing as 'working
harder'. Just not gonna fly with me. The torque curve is the torque curve
and the gears do the fixing of that for me.

The SIZE is physically different.
I'm not gonna believe a small engine has to 'work harder' than a big engine
and so it won't last as long.

Nope. That's the one thing you're going to have to prove to me.
(The rest I believe you on.)

She doesn't have a "honey-do" list that, in her mind, takes priority
over the car repairs?? "you haven't got it fixed YET???" -

Yeah. But I don't think she even remembers my name anymore.

At least my oldest is back in the country most of the time now -
even though she's only been "home" for about 3 weeks since the middle
of September and she'll only be "home " for about 15 days between now
and Christmas. "home" being about 5 miles from here. She will be in
Africa and Asia the rest of the time (work)

That's another thing. My kids have been flying to other countries since
they were born. When did YOU first leave the country? I think I did when I
was in my thirties. Maybe late twenties. Boy oh boy though, did the
airplanes have service!

But that's another difference in the days of yore!

 

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:55:30 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

tom wrote:

The lead fowled the plugs pretty quickly.
Now they can last 100k miles.

I didn't know that the lead deposits fouled the plugs but it makes sense
since lead will conduct (but that's only elemental lead which tetraethyl
lead may or may not end up as on a plug).

Ltad oxide and lead sulfide conduct. Lead sulfide is a semiconductor
(galena?) formed by reaction of lead and sulphur in gasoline.

Having had a two stroke motorcycle, I know all about fouled plugs, where I
still have, somewhere, a cigarette-lighter-socket operated spark plug
sandblaster, which I forgot all about until you mentioned this plug fouling
stuff.

The lead sulfide cannot be blasted off (it is yellow/green) and
causes severe misfires

We all used to gap plugs and file the electrode to get flatter tops and
sharper corners because that's where the electrical lines of force
concentrate. But that's also where the heat of the zap eats away the metal.

I suspect the platinum coating made a big difference in the plug life, but
I don't know that for a fact. The multiple electrodes may have helped
although only one will carry the spark in general.

The platinum is NOT plating - it is a platinum chip welded to the
(usually copper cored) steel electrode. Many have plat chips on the
ground electrode now too.

 

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 04:04:28 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

tom wrote:

The rubbing block wears down. The points gap gets smaller.

Yeah. I forgot. I even have in my toolbox a set of distributor bolt
wrenches, one curved and the other kind of L shaped.

I wonder if I'll ever find a use for them again? I should put them in the
same box as the dwellmeter, timing light, ignition bumper, spark plug gap
gauges, spark plug sandblaster and grease gun.

What's odd is that those are all *oldtimer tools* where I don't think there
are any newtimer tools other than a good OBD scanner and, if you're so
inclined, the bluetooth and computer based ECU readers.

Are there any newtimer repair tools that we never needed in the past that
we need now?

I remember I have a fuel-injection light bulb which snapped into the fuel
injector but that hasn't been used itself in decades.

Other than OBD scanners, what is a *new* tool that we have needed that we
didn't use in the days of yore?

A good low impedence multitester, and occaisionally a "power
injector", and occaisionally a logic tester (generally part of the
power injector)

 

On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 21:39:37 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 11/04/2017 05:49 PM, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 16:33:57 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com
wrote:

I cut my hands to ribbons on the first water pump -- the fan (which had
to be removed) was attached with at least 4 bolts which could only move
1/4 turn without repositioning the 12-point box wrench, the only thing
that would fit. I swore I'd never do that again no matter how much it
cost -- until I found out how much it DID cost. Some of us are too
cheap for our own good.

KD makes a special tool for that - at the value O put on skin and
suffering, cheap at twice the price

30+ years ago. Ratchet box wrench?

Nope - just a real shallow socket on a steel bar about 1/8 x 1/2 x
16"

The ones I did were simple. The hard part was remembering how the damn
springs on the drums went. I couldn't believe how easy pads were; it
took me longer to find the C-clamp than to do the work :-(

A cell phone camera makes all of that SO much simpler!!!

So would a time machine!

 

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 00:40:49 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

RS Wood wrote on 11/4/2017 11:55 PM:
rickman wrote:

The only plastic that I know of which lasts forever outside is whatever
plastic the garbage company uses for those blue, green, and gray wheeled
bins!

That's your standard? Things have to last "forever"???

I leave plastic stuff outside and within a year or two, it crumbles in my
hands. So two years is too short.

Meanwhile, the garbage bins last forever outside.

Why can they make a garbage bin last forever but not a Costco picnic table?

Because they are making the table to sell at the lowest price while the bin
has a specification. Price, stop buying things based on the price! I bet
you didn't even ask about the materials used in the table. I can assure you
the city who bought the bin asked what it was made of. So the fault,
really, is yours.


I wish *all* plastic things were made out of *that* plastic, especially
pool tools.

You can ask about the materials when you buy stuff. It's not the plastic,
but whether the plastic has UV resistance additives.

Is that what makes those garbage bins last forever outside?
If so, that's what I want in my picnic table from Costco!
And in all the pool equipment.

When you return the table tell them that... and you will be ignored because
they made a lot of money selling the same crap they sold last year in spite
of the few who returned them.


I still have to replace the exhaust system ever four years. That part
hasn't changed. If you know anything about why they fail, you would
understand the only alternative is stainless steel which is *much* more
expensive.

I used to patch mufflers, like we all did.

Illegal because the patches are crap and the rest of the muffler won't last
another six months. My mufflers don't get leaks, the flange breaks off on
the pipe. Try fixing that.

I do it all the time. Cut off the flanges and fit a pipe over the
joint. Clamp or weld the sleave. Use stainless pipe and stainless
clamps. The flanges rust off because they are welded with mild steel
amd/or are not passivated after welding.

And we all know what a pain it was to get the old ones off.
Forget about those u-bolt nuts ever twisting off.

But I haven't replaced a muffler in decades.
Why?
I'm not sure why.

Because it isn't worth it. When any part of the exhaust system goes bad you
are better off replacing it all.


You could get a stainless steel exhaust system the first time
you replace it, but you would need to keep the vehicle for twenty more years
to make it pay off.

I don't even look at the exhaust anymore, it's that reliable.
I thought the whole thing from the cat back was stainless steel.
Is it not?

No, it's not. It's still the same steel that lasts around 4 years.

What crap are you driving??? Most have been stainless steel for over
20myears.

 

[RS Wood]

The Real Bev wrote:

One more thing, the word "brake warp" or "rotor warp" is banished from your
vocabulary. Anyone who uses those two words, is simply proving they're an
utter fool.

BUT you do need to replace the rotors (wrecking yard is probably OK) if
you kept putting off changing the pads until they stopped squealing and
the backing plates started grinding deep (1/4") grooves into the rotors.
Amazingly enough, braking worked just fine until the hogging-in started.

I'm confused by what you wrote, especially in context with the words "warp"
when rotors never warp (or almost never, and never in terms of mattering).

So anyone who *thinks* rotors warp, is an idiot.

The replacing of rotors is also determined by idiots most of the time
because people don't have the concept of measuring the thickness because
many people don't have the concept of owning a micrometer.

I can't count the number of times I've heard someone say to replace the
rotors on the second pad change, where the real answer is to replace the
rotors when they are worn down to the minimum thickness (everything else
being ok).

In general, the rotors are ok except for pad deposition which is solely a
driver-caused problem (long story later if people ask).

Sure, grooves can be there but gouges have to be the size of the Grand
Canyon to matter (just look up the specs, you'll see) so grooves are, in
reality, not what makes rotors into paperweights.

Sure cracks can happen, glazed hard spots can happen, and yes, even warpage
can happen but realistically it's not gonna happen. So it's thickness that
matters. (Excess runout is usually something else and that's what the dial
gauge is for anyway.)

In practice, the way you determine when/if to replace rotors is so simple
that it's not funny. If they're thinner than the stamping says on the edge,
then you replace them. If they have one thousandth of an inch more than the
stamping says, you keep them (they'll certainly lose that thousandth of an
inch but the stamping takes that into account).

I get about a thousandth of an inch per thousand miles roughly.

Pads?
I wear them down to the metal backing. Well, just one moment before it
reaches the pad backing. Although that means replacing the $15 sensor
sometimes, if I'm lazy.

The beauty of doing your own brakes is that they don't ever worry you.
You do them when you do them. You can wear them down to the bone.
And then you just do them.

The only rule is that if anyone tells you their rotors warped, run (do not
walk) run away fast. Don't look back. Run.

 

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 04:59:32 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

KD makes a special tool for that - at the value O put on skin and
suffering, cheap at twice the price

30+ years ago. Ratchet box wrench?

Speaking of ratchet box wrench, I learned long ago that the "fancy" tools
were worse than the simple tools.

There's nothing wrong with a box wrench. Nothing.

It doesn't need plastic inserts.
It doesn't need a ratcheting mechanism.
It doesn't need replaceable heads.

All that stuff makes it BIGGER (which is bad when it matters).
All that stuff makes it WEAKER (which is bad when it matters).
All that stuff makes it less reliable (which is bad too).

KISS.
I call that crap "knuckle busters"