What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

KD makes a special tool for that - at the value O put on skin and
suffering, cheap at twice the price

This is the interesting thing about tools for working on cars.

Very few of the common jobs require any special tools that you don't
already have, which are the common tools that everyone has.

Every once in a while, you need a special waterpump holding tool, or a
special brake caliper hex wrench size or a special clutch spline alignment
tool or a special balljoint separator tool or a special bearing puller or a
special harmonic balancer puller or a special transmission jack.

The nice thing is that the money you save on labor almost always has you
more than break even on the tool costs, except in your very first jobs in
your life when you're just a kid.

When you're just a kid, you have to buy jack stands for the first time, and
ramps for the first time and brakespring pliers for the first time and a
dwellmeter and timing light for the first time and feeler gauges for the
first time and a floor jack for the first time, and so on.

Truth be told, you often buy the major tools twice, since you try to go
cheap the first time, so, for example, you buy the tube-type cheaper $15
jack stands (the ones with holes drilled in a pipe) and finally, when
you're older, you spring for the notched ones instead.

Likewise you buy the small cheap floor jack, when years later you spring
for the heavy duty one.

The worst is that you buy the least amount of wrenches and sockets in the
beginning, then you learn later (way later) that you ended up buying one by
one a million extender bars and u joints and deep and shallow and impact
sockets, that you should have just sprung for the $1000 set in the first
place.

But you never had the money when you bought the tools for the first time
(just as you stored them in hand tool boxes until you sprung for the big
boy years later).

So, yeah, you buy tools twice sometimes, but that's only because you didn't
have the money and you didn't have anyone to advise you when you were a
kid.

The ones I did were simple. The hard part was remembering how the damn
springs on the drums went. I couldn't believe how easy pads were; it
took me longer to find the C-clamp than to do the work :-(
A cell phone camera makes all of that SO much simpler!!!

Yup. The cellphone camera replaced pen and paper diagrams!
 
The Real Bev wrote:

but with
brakes there's the whole shebang from pads and sensors to calipers and
rotors and bearings and speed sensors, and abs intricacies.

The ones I did were simple. The hard part was remembering how the damn
springs on the drums went. I couldn't believe how easy pads were; it
took me longer to find the C-clamp than to do the work :-(

That's the thing about brakes that gets me.

Most people I know pay upwards of $1K for a 4-wheel brake job at the
dealer, where (a) I would never go to the dealer, and (b) I would never pay
even $100 for someone else to do a brake job.

Most brake jobs are so easy that it's not funny since disc brakes are so
easy to work on that it's not even close to funny. Drum brakes are harder
simply because of the intricacies of the springs, but they're only harder
because disc brakes are so easy.

Pads cost about $50 per set and all you aim for is FF or GG or FG, or
whatever cold/hot heat rating you want. That's another thing about doing a
job yourself, which is parts selection.

If you do it yourself, you have to buy the parts, and if you buy the parts
you figure out what matters.

Most of us follow the same rules for buying parts, do we not?
a. First we figure out what the OEM parts are, and, then,
b. We figure out how much it costs for better parts.

Sometimes the OEM parts are the best, but just as often, the aftermarket
parts are better.

In the case of brake pads, we look up the cold/hot friction ratings for the
OEM pads. Let's say that they're FG. Then we look at the aftermarket for
better pads. Let's say we find GG pads. We look at the cost difference.
And we usually buy the better pad.

As for rotors, there's a truckload of hype around slotted, drilled, drilled
and slotted, etc., where at least motorcycle rotors are stainless steel and
where looks matter a lot. On cars, looks only matter if you have wheels
that show off your brakes, so drilled and slotted or all that other purely
pretty stuff doesn't matter. Solid is the way to go. The cheaper the
better. For example, you can get Brembo rotors for less than the OEM
rotors, where a rotor is a rotor is a rotor.

About $50 per axle for pads, and about $50 per wheel for rotors, and you're
out the door with parts (a few dabs of high-temperature grease later).

Notice that when you do the work yourself, you LEARN what matters. If
you're smart about it, you don't fall for the marketing hype.

And one more thing. Since you do the work yourself, you buy the tools,
where brake jobs don't necessarily take special tools (although calipers
sometimes need oddball-sized hex wrenches on German cars).

All you need is a mic to measure thickness and a dial gauge and stand to
measure runout, and if you're doing drums, two types of brake-spring
pliers, and you're good to go with tools.

One more thing, the word "brake warp" or "rotor warp" is banished from your
vocabulary. Anyone who uses those two words, is simply proving they're an
utter fool.

That's the kind of stuff you learn by doing the job yourself.
 
"RS Wood" <rswood@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:eek:tm0no$3eb$2@solani.org...
clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

For example, in the olden days, how many rotted out "mufflers" did you
replace compared to today?
No lead and phosphorous in the gas makes a BIG difference - as does
more complete combustion. Stainless steel doesn't hurt either.

Yet there is a lot more aluminum in engines nowadays.

I don't see how the lead matters although we all went through the phase
where we switched from leaded cars to lead-free cars and had to change
pumps in the process.

I still don't see how the *gas* has anything to do with engines lasting
longer. Maybe it does, but I don't see the connection.

+++++++++++++++++++

The lead fowled the plugs pretty quickly. Now they can last 100k miles.
 
RS Wood wrote on 11/4/2017 5:49 PM:
rickman wrote:

They make things to last as long as the consumer demands. Kids toys were
not all built solidly when we were kids. Tonka was a high priced toy.
Today they still make quality toys. I don't know if Tonka uses UV
stabilizers, but I know there are some kids plastic playhouses that seem to
last for many years outside.

The only plastic that I know of which lasts forever outside is whatever
plastic the garbage company uses for those blue, green, and gray wheeled
bins!

That's your standard? Things have to last "forever"???


I wish *all* plastic things were made out of *that* plastic, especially
pool tools.

You can ask about the materials when you buy stuff. It's not the plastic,
but whether the plastic has UV resistance additives.


Cars didn't get better until the Japanese showed the US consumer there was a
choice. Detroit and Wolfsburg, etc only learned after the Japanese started
eating their lunches.

I think I may tend to agree with you which is why I mentioned that Japan
may have had a lot to do with Detroit making more reliable cars.

I think also the EPA forcing the manufacturer to warrant the emissions
system for longer periods of time helped.

For example, in the olden days, how many rotted out "mufflers" did you
replace compared to today?

I still have to replace the exhaust system ever four years. That part
hasn't changed. If you know anything about why they fail, you would
understand the only alternative is stainless steel which is *much* more
expensive. You could get a stainless steel exhaust system the first time
you replace it, but you would need to keep the vehicle for twenty more years
to make it pay off.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998
 
gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

I still don't see how the *gas* has anything to do with engines lasting
longer. Maybe it does, but I don't see the connection.

Lead free along with EFI is why plugs last forever.

That's an enigma to me, but if I think it through, EFI allowed for higher
voltages which I'd think would melt a spark plug even more than the lower
voltages, but maybe what happened is a higher voltage zap keeps the plugs
from fouling. The zap may even be shorter for all I know.

The lack of tetraethyl lead, I guess, besides meaning harder valve seats,
means fewer deposits on the plugs I guess, where deposits that conduct
electricity cause the voltage to bleed off down the center electrode to the
threads.

Is that how the lead and efi helped plugs last forever?

The enigma is that the higher voltage "should" eat the metal faster.
 
rickman wrote:

The only plastic that I know of which lasts forever outside is whatever
plastic the garbage company uses for those blue, green, and gray wheeled
bins!

That's your standard? Things have to last "forever"???

I leave plastic stuff outside and within a year or two, it crumbles in my
hands. So two years is too short.

Meanwhile, the garbage bins last forever outside.

Why can they make a garbage bin last forever but not a Costco picnic table?

I wish *all* plastic things were made out of *that* plastic, especially
pool tools.

You can ask about the materials when you buy stuff. It's not the plastic,
but whether the plastic has UV resistance additives.

Is that what makes those garbage bins last forever outside?
If so, that's what I want in my picnic table from Costco!
And in all the pool equipment.

I still have to replace the exhaust system ever four years. That part
hasn't changed. If you know anything about why they fail, you would
understand the only alternative is stainless steel which is *much* more
expensive.

I used to patch mufflers, like we all did.
And we all know what a pain it was to get the old ones off.
Forget about those u-bolt nuts ever twisting off.

But I haven't replaced a muffler in decades.
Why?
I'm not sure why.

You could get a stainless steel exhaust system the first time
you replace it, but you would need to keep the vehicle for twenty more years
to make it pay off.

I don't even look at the exhaust anymore, it's that reliable.
I thought the whole thing from the cat back was stainless steel.
Is it not?
 
tom wrote:

The lead fowled the plugs pretty quickly.
Now they can last 100k miles.

I didn't know that the lead deposits fouled the plugs but it makes sense
since lead will conduct (but that's only elemental lead which tetraethyl
lead may or may not end up as on a plug).

Having had a two stroke motorcycle, I know all about fouled plugs, where I
still have, somewhere, a cigarette-lighter-socket operated spark plug
sandblaster, which I forgot all about until you mentioned this plug fouling
stuff.

We all used to gap plugs and file the electrode to get flatter tops and
sharper corners because that's where the electrical lines of force
concentrate. But that's also where the heat of the zap eats away the metal.

I suspect the platinum coating made a big difference in the plug life, but
I don't know that for a fact. The multiple electrodes may have helped
although only one will carry the spark in general.
 
"RS Wood" <rswood@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:eek:tm0o7$3eb$9@solani.org...
clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I agree that points were a weak link that just had to go. I'm not sure why
timing changed, because, as I recall, we twisted the distributor to time
the engine where, the distributor would have no reason to twist back once
locked down.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The rubbing block wears down. The points gap gets smaller.
 
tom wrote:

> The rubbing block wears down. The points gap gets smaller.

Yeah. I forgot. I even have in my toolbox a set of distributor bolt
wrenches, one curved and the other kind of L shaped.

I wonder if I'll ever find a use for them again? I should put them in the
same box as the dwellmeter, timing light, ignition bumper, spark plug gap
gauges, spark plug sandblaster and grease gun.

What's odd is that those are all *oldtimer tools* where I don't think there
are any newtimer tools other than a good OBD scanner and, if you're so
inclined, the bluetooth and computer based ECU readers.

Are there any newtimer repair tools that we never needed in the past that
we need now?

I remember I have a fuel-injection light bulb which snapped into the fuel
injector but that hasn't been used itself in decades.

Other than OBD scanners, what is a *new* tool that we have needed that we
didn't use in the days of yore?
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:32:11 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

For example, in the olden days, how many rotted out "mufflers" did you
replace compared to today?
No lead and phosphorous in the gas makes a BIG difference - as does
more complete combustion. Stainless steel doesn't hurt either.

Yet there is a lot more aluminum in engines nowadays.

I don't see how the lead matters although we all went through the phase
where we switched from leaded cars to lead-free cars and had to change
pumps in the process.

I still don't see how the *gas* has anything to do with engines lasting
longer. Maybe it does, but I don't see the connection.
That's because you are not an automotive professional, and you have
not studied the subject. Leaded gas, without additional additives,
would quickly foul the engine with lead. They use a scavenging agent
to get rid of the lead. Those scavenging agents, such as ethyl
Dibromide, and 12 dichlorethane,

These compounds form corrosive byproducts which accumulate in the
exhaust and in the crankcase.

Lead oxide was the main cause of short valve life and also contributed
to ring wear. Lead Btomide wasn't much better, but it boiled off at a
lower temperature than lead oxide..

Other additives were also used in the leaded gas era, which are not
used any more.

The stainless steel I was referring to was the exhaust system.

Aluminum conducts heat a lot better than iron or steel, so aluminum
heads allow higher compression ratios without causing detonation than
iron heads. Aluminum is also a lot lighter, reducing fuel consumption.
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:32:18 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

Clifford Heath wrote:

I suspect that better computer simulation, especially thermal
modeling, has the most to do with it. There are manufacturing
breakthroughs also, like bearing seals that actually seal the
bearings, and better materials. Better anti-corrosion chemistry.
Stuff like that.

Oh. That's interesting. What you're saying is that the manufacturers are
using computers to make cars, which helps make better cars.

The cars are also VERY heavily comuterized. Every car sold since 1996
has more computing powewr onboard than was used to put the first man
on the moon.
That may very well be the case, since computers can be used to easily hone
quality, bit by bit by bit, simply because of the inherent re-use that
computers easily allow.

You're right but I don't understand why we used to pack wheel bearings
periodically and now we don't. Who doesn't remember glopping grease on your
palm and then slapping a bearing through that grease?

The new bearings are sealed, and lubricated with better greaase than
existed in the sixties - a lot of it a product of the space race.
A kid of 30 or 40 years old doesn't know what we're talking about.

Likewise, who hasn't squirted grease into a ball joint until it squirted
back out of the pregnant rubber cup making farting sounds? Or a driveshaft
u-joint where is just squirted out noiselessly.

Damaging the boot on the ball joint - letting dirt and water in.
Again, better materials, and better lubricants, have made "sealed for
life" ball joints etc last longer than the ones you greased every 3
months.
What's with bearings nowadays. Why don't wheel bearings need to be packed
anymore and u-joints not need lubrication and ball joints not need it?

What did they do differently?
EVERYTHING.
 
On 11/4/2017 9:32 PM, RS Wood wrote:
We were talking about timing belts inside car engines.

The problem with timing belts on some engines is when they break, the
pistons can contact the valves, which is the dumbest bit of engineering I
have ever seen in my life.

A belt is a belt. The point I was trying to make, albeit awkwardly, was
visual inspection of the belt tells you nothing in most cases. You
replace the thing after N miles based on the mean time to failure. If
you have a timing belt that fails before that and an interference engine
you can plan on replacing valves too. There are many things on an
automobile that give you hints they should be replaced; timing belts
just break.

Timing chains used to be less dependable but the newer ones are greatly
improved. I'm happy my Toyota has a chain. I haven't researched it but I
do believe some manufacturers are going back to chains. Belts are
cheaper but pissed off customers aren't.
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:32:20 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I understand the magic of computers getting more reliable but what's the
magic in cars getting more reliable?
That's easy - Computers!!!

Computers help make a lot of things not break.

For example, fuel injection and a distributorless single coil per spark
plug with a nice high voltage all by themselves prevented a billion
tuneups.

The EPA making exhaust systems have to last longer under warranty made the
manufacturers make them out of stainless steel instead of pre-rusted
Detroit steel.

There are computers in plenty of other places (for example, ABS), but other
than the fuel injection, where did computers play a role in engine
longevity?

I'm not saying they didn't, but I don't see how they play a role in engine
longevity other than in the tuneup arena where they were an immense help.

The computer controls fuel mixture and ignition timing, making the
engine burn more efficiently and more cleanly - reducing carbon
loading of the engine oil, as well as almost completely eliminating
fuel dilution and cyl wall washdown - which makes the rings last a lot
longer, as well as bearings and timing gears/chains/tensioners.

The vast majority of engine wear was caused in the startup and warmup
mode. Computer control has virtually eliminated those problems.
(mainly the elimination of the choke and better atomization of fuel
using port injection. GDI makes it almost an order of magnitude better
again.
 
On 11/4/2017 8:45 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 05/11/17 11:33, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 21:19:50 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid
I do agree that PCV valves and condensers and points and carbs required
maintenance basically yearly or every two years at the longest.
Often TWICE a year - spring and fall tuneups were common.

My grandfather had a pair of Jowett Javelins in the 1950's.
With the Solex carbies, tuneup's were more of a morning *and* afternoon
thing.

For a Healey with multiple SUs 'tuneup' was very apropos. I never had
the fancy gauges so I'd just make sure they were whistling in tune.
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:32:21 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

When was the last time you replaced the old "points plugs and
condenser" That used to be a once or twice a year thing.


Don't forget better lubricants too.

Are the lubricants really contributing to longevity of the engine?

The main lubricant, of course, is motor oil, which has gone from SB to SC,
to SD to SE .... now to somewhere around SL, SM, SN ... but has *that* been
contributing to engine life by a lot?

Yes. Definitely.
The other lubricants, of course, are the gear oils, but again, GL4 and GL5
are pretty old stuff.

I don't remember seeing Zerk fittings lately, so I think one thing with
respect to lubrication is they made permanently lubricated driveshaft
u-joints and suspension balljoints.

But really. Do we have any evidence that lubrication is why engines seem to
last longer nowadays?
The manufacturers and oil companies do.
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:32:23 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

I understand the magic of computers getting more reliable but what's the
magic in cars getting more reliable?

More quality in the manufacture along with the fact that a lot of the
things that used to fail were replaced by computers that do a far
better job that Mr Venturi.

I'm going to have to agree that I think the only thing that really changed
over time was the quality.

I think Japan took half of Detroit's profits, and that was the sole
determinant that made Detroit start thinking about quality.

If that's the case, you have to hand it to Japan for even coming up with
the idea of quality in the first place.

When was the last time you replaced the old "points plugs and
condenser" That used to be a once or twice a year thing.

Wow. My timing light is still packed away, along with the dwellmeter. Every
once in a while I use the feeler gauges that I used to use for points, but
for something else. Even the spark plug gapper is used, but nowadays only
on the home tools like the leaf blower. I have a contraption that has a
heavy duty switch for "bumping" the engine. I forget even why I *built*
that thing.

Why did we bump the engine? I forget why.
To get the engine in the correct position to agust points, or adjust
valve clearances, usually.
I also still have a dial gauge that I screwed into the number one cylinder
on a motorcycle to time the points on the bike where there is no concept of
a timing light. The points open in millimeters before TDC.

It's rare though for tools to go out of style. I'm still using my first
Christmas gift of Sears Craftsman open-end wrenches, for example.
 
On 11/04/2017 02:19 PM, RS Wood wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:

Sounds like the Ford dealership jerk who replaced the starter on the 69
LTD. One loose bolt, one dropped on top of the starter and one
completely missing. He was partially right, it ran for a couple of
years afterward.

I needed 2 feet of extensions to tighten the bolts. I suppose that sort
of explains why the jerk did such a crappy job.

I can't count the number of times I've seen someone use a screwdriver as a
prybar on, say, plastic twist-off hubcaps, or who used a pair of pliers
instead of a socket, or who used an adjustable wrench instead of a socket.

Whenever we see something with a rounded nut or bolt we think "Patrick
was here." Pat is one of my son's friends who NEVER had the right tool.

--
Cheers, Bev
"If you like to stand on your head and spit pickles in the snow, on the
Internet there are at least three other people just like you."
- Langston James Goree VI
 
rbowman wrote:

> Belts are cheaper but pissed off customers aren't.

I agree. They can't save enough money on a belt to compensate for the fact
that we wouldn't purchase the car.
 
rbowman wrote:

For a Healey with multiple SUs 'tuneup' was very apropos. I never had
the fancy gauges so I'd just make sure they were whistling in tune.

All you needed for a tuneup on a motorcycle, at least my Japanese bike of
the time, was a screwin dial gage for the number 1 cylinder and a buzzer
for the points to let you know when they opened.

Nothing fancy needed by way of tools other than that.
 
clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

But really. Do we have any evidence that lubrication is why engines seem to
last longer nowadays?
The manufacturers and oil companies do.

I guess then, that the longevity is due to two things in general (so far).

1. Better lubricants and seals
2. Better fuels (for example detergents and loss of lead)

Interesting that it's not better design of engines.
 

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