War on humanity

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 04:46:45 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

If you can't sell it, you don't own it.
----------------
No, if you SELL it, THEN you don't own it, and might as well never!!

If you aren't allowed to sell it, then you don't own it.
--------------

You already said that, but it doesn't actually make sense, you've
simply heard it for so long that you believe it without examination.

Whoever it is
that is preventing you from selling it owns it.
----------------

Not if THEY can't use it.

Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist,
fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be
controlled and those who have no such desire.
- Robert Heinlein
------------------

Heinlein was never very bright politically.
He was a political adolescent.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 04:52:49 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

And if the majority votes that R. Steve Walz is an Enemy of the
People, and his property should be siezed, and he imprisoned, for the
encouragement of the others?
--------------------------------
Then it won't be the final evolution of the Majority Democracy.

So it's only the final evolution of the Majority Democracy if it deifies
R. Steve Walz?
--------------------

Irrelevant.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 05:03:55 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
----------------------------
There is no need to reward quality, that's what quality control and
worker peer group authority to fire are for. There is only the need
to reward hours of labor.

If I'm to be rewarded the same, regardless of my labor, I'm going to
fold paper airplanes.
-----------------------

You will be rewarded the same per hour IF and ONLY IF you perform
labor that is authorized by the Majority to BE paid.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 05:18:01 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

If the workers are free to organize as they choose and use capital as
they choose, they will use it for profit, and you will have a free
market system that will turn back into capitalism in two or three
years -- indeed it only took two or three months for alarmingly
powerful signs of capitalism to reappear in Catalonia.

If this problem is solved by "coordination" that forcibly prevents
them from acting in the way most profitable to each particular person
or small group, then you have a single all powerful monopoly state,
and it is back to the killing fields, as also happened in Catalonia.
----------------
Nonsense, you simply have art as hobby AND as vocation, just like now!

I'm sorry, I don't understand.
---------------------

I'm also sorry you don't understand.

I'm an engineer. It's lucrative, but takes a great deal of effort and
energy, as well having taken as a significant investment in education
and training.
---------------------

So am I. Get real.

Currently, I find it worth the effort.
-----------------------

You'd prefer it to ditch digging, I guarantee you.

But if I'm to be paid the same as a washroom attendent, it wouldn't be.
Being a washroom attendent is a far less stressful job.
-------------------------------

You'd find it so unbelievably boring that you'd go back to school
for free to get away from it.

So if I'm to be rewarded the same, regardless of what I do, I'll choose
the job that takes the least effort.
------------------------------------

Nope, you wouldn't. You'd be bored to tears.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 05:22:21 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:

How are you going to convince someone who has a piece of land that
happens to be in a popularily desirable location to swap with you
who has land that is on the wrong side of the railroad tracks, or
downwind of the People's Rehabilatory Crematorium?
--------------------------------
Who would want to live there? They'd request to move and the Local
Committee would agree.

So now you have the State determining who can live where?
------------------------------

Only by application maintaining they'd been cheated out of a decent
residence, which is their Constitutional Right!

You're advocating feudalism - turning everyone into serfs, bound to the
land, and forbidden to leave without permission.
----------------------------------

Garbage. That's like pretending if no one wants to trade homes with
you that you're a serf even thought you're paid the same as everyone
else for your work. You don't have a leg to stand on, in this society
or mine!!

Conservatives never seem to fully appreciate the fact that the issues are
never the issue where liberals are concerned. For liberals the issue is
power. Whatever serves their need for power is right; whatever frustrates
it is wrong.
- David Horowitz
----------------

Another piece of lying filth from Rightist cretins like Horowitz.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[John Fields]

On Wed, 05 May 2004 05:50:54 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com>
wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Tue, 04 May 2004 17:58:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 04 May 2004 03:38:51 GMT) it happened "R. Steve Walz"
rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <40971112.2CE3@armory.com>:

Saint wrote:

I urge you to stop playing Doom for a while, and go read a book. It's
also of importance to open your window and look outside to see how the
real world is going.
--------------
I've NEVER played "Doom" and I've read FAR more than YOU have!
Believe it!
Believe? But you are against religion!

---
You're an ass.

An assertion which can be easily tested requires no dogma except that
the outcome of the test be considered valid if the premise is true.

In this instance, a simple reading list would suffice to determine the
truth of the premise, so take your supercilious opinion and stuff it
back up your ass where it belongs.

What the hell is it with you losers, anyway?

You seem to think that just because you have some half-baked idea
about how everything should be and you've been given the means whereby
you can express yourselves that your idiotic prattle is important.

Think again.

Before you can rise up out of the noise you need to know something
about where on the spectrum you belong, and from what I've seen so
far, you seem to think that you're broadband enough, and the best
thing to come along since sliced bread, that you're fit to render
decisions about just about everything.

You're not.

You're basically just an opinionated clueless fuck who will spend the
rest of his life wishing for things to happen which will prove him
right.

--
John Fields
-------------
Attributions!: Who are you responding to??

---
Panteltje, of course; I'm surprised you had to ask !^)

--
John Fields

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Wed, 05 May 2004 06:45:36 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 04:17:45 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
-------------------------------
The majority sets up and operates the courts, they can do it directly
or indirectly. No such distinction as you make exists. Your "mob"
notion about direct democracy is merely disingenuous.

The issue isn't who sets up the courts, but whether they operate under
rules that are determined in advance, or at the whim of the judge.
------------------------------------
Why would a Majority Democracy want to set some random judge loose
without instructing them what it wanted done??

Why would a Majority put limits on its own power?

The law can, and to make a central
direction of economic possible must, legalize to what all intents and
purposes remains arbitrary action. If the law says that such a board or
authority may do what it pleases, anything that board or authority does
is legal - but its actions are certainly not subject to the Rule of Law.
--------------------
Nonsense, we have smaller divisions of local government that award
variances from statute to meet valid needs where the nature of the
circumstance was not foreseen by the intent of the law. And voted
law grants them that subordinated power subject to review.

In other words, the Majority follows the law, unless it wants to do
something else.

Or in truth, the oligarchs can do anything they like, so long as they
can convince the mob that it was a good idea.

--
Never blame a legislative body for not doing something. When they do
nothing, they don't hurt anybody. When they do something is when they
become dangerous.
- Will Rogers

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Wed, 05 May 2004 06:51:38 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 05:03:55 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
----------------------------
There is no need to reward quality, that's what quality control and
worker peer group authority to fire are for. There is only the need
to reward hours of labor.

If I'm to be rewarded the same, regardless of my labor, I'm going to
fold paper airplanes.
-----------------------
You will be rewarded the same per hour IF and ONLY IF you perform
labor that is authorized by the Majority to BE paid.

So now you're advocating slavery?

Not only does the State determine where I live, but the State determines
what labor I do?

--
Never blame a legislative body for not doing something. When they do
nothing, they don't hurt anybody. When they do something is when they
become dangerous.
- Will Rogers

 

[Chuck Harris]

R. Steve Walz wrote:

The engineer can always become a ditch digger. All it takes is a shovel
and a pick. Can the ditch digger become an engineer if you give him a
calculator?

-Chuck

-------------------------
If the State educates him, which is his equal right, sure. It matters
not whether someone can do a different job instantly, compensation
must be fair, and fairness is not about education or no edcuation.
The Democracy is made up of both kinds of people, and THEY ALL decide
politically what Fairness is!! If you can't require an engineering
degree to vote, then Wage Fairness has nothing to do with education.

-Steve

Balderdash!

In spite of your delusions, all people are not endowed with equal
abilities. You can't teach a moron to think like a genius. You
can't teach me to sing like Pavoratti.

I am a very good engineer (pat! pat! pat!) I am also a very good
ditch digger. I can do the job with a backhoe, or a shovel and a
pick. Because I am smart, and healthy, you can put me to a wide
variety of jobs and I will excel at all of them. In my experience
with a lot of different trades, I have met plenty of ditch diggers
and carpenters that couldn't make heads nor tails of a simple task
like balancing a checkbook. How are these mental giants going to
do with a multi variable calculus problem?

When I work as an engineer, I put a lot of other people to work.
When I work as a ditch digger, I only put myself to work. And,
simple observation would show you that ditches don't stay dug.

As an engineer, I am 1-in-10000, there are 10000 people who could do
my job as well as I can. As a ditch digger I am 1-in-1E9, there are
1 billion people that could dig ditches as well as I can.

The free market rules of supply and demand require a scarce commodity
to be more valuable than a common commodity. I can affect more
people's lives as an engineer, than I ever will as a ditch digger.

I am done arguing with you Mr Walz. I would rather dig ditches for
the rest of my life than to work as an engineer at a ditch digger's
wages in your version of "utopia". Over here, we call it hell.

If your system of utopia infects this country, I will find new
employment destroying your system. And I will do fabulously well
at it too!

-Chuck

 

[Chuck Harris]

R. Steve Walz wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote:

R. Steve Walz wrote:


Land then will no longer be salable, only tradable for the same
amount of residential land and home. All other land is governed
for social use by the Local Majority.


How are you going to convince someone who has a piece of land that
happens to be in a popularily desirable location to swap with you
who has land that is on the wrong side of the railroad tracks, or
downwind of the People's Rehabilatory Crematorium?

--------------------------------
Who would want to live there? They'd request to move and the Local
Committee would agree. But not everyone can live in Hawaii. Preventing
them from trying to can be unfairly done by wealth and housing prices,
or fairly done by housing-trade.

Precisely! So, when all the lots for building are taken up in the nice
places, all that will be left are those that are less desirable.

How are you planning to get your lot in a nice place? You will have
to take it by force because someone will already "own" it.

By virtue of human desires, some residences will be more equal
than others. That inequality will make some people more wealthy
than others. Do you propose a complete reshuffeling every few
months (it would keep state movers occupied in their misery)?

-Chuck

------------------------------------
Nope, people get to stay where they dwell unless they wish to move.
Same as now.

Equality is a matter of opinion. They can build any kind of home
they wish for themselves.

The finest home in the world isn't worth sh*t if it is in a bad
location. Ask your local realtor.

-Chuck

 

[Chuck Harris]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

Nonsense, you simply have art as hobby AND as vocation, just like now!


I'm sorry, I don't understand.

I'm an engineer. It's lucrative, but takes a great deal of effort and
energy, as well having taken as a significant investment in education
and training.

Currently, I find it worth the effort.

But if I'm to be paid the same as a washroom attendent, it wouldn't be.
Being a washroom attendent is a far less stressful job.

So if I'm to be rewarded the same, regardless of what I do, I'll choose
the job that takes the least effort.

As would any sane and intelligent individual.

-Chuck

 

[Chuck Harris]

R. Steve Walz wrote:

It's amazing how many unadorned 40-50-something women want just an
intelligent lick/suck/fuck-friend who DOESN'T want to move in with
them and run their life for them!

You mean .... WORKING.... women I presume?

-----------------------
I don't pay them or compensate them otherwise. YOU figure it out.

-Steve

Then you admit that by taking their efforts for free, you are stealing
from the prostitutes?

Shame!

-Chuck

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40988457.186F@armory.com...

-------------------
No, I simply turn it to mine own meaning, as I do indeed see it
that way. I know True Human Nature.

Pfh! If you had any modicum of a clue, you wouldn't be anywhere
near the fool that you are.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

"Jeffrey C. Dege" <jdege@jdege.visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc9g5a8.5or.jdege@jdege.visi.com...

In Catalonia, while the libertarian socialists had power,

"Libertarian socialist?" Isn't that a little like "Military Intelligence,"
or ...
http://www.fun-with-words.com/oxym_example.html

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Wed, 05 May 2004 15:40:33 GMT, Rich Grise <null@example.net> wrote:

"Jeffrey C. Dege" <jdege@jdege.visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc9g5a8.5or.jdege@jdege.visi.com...

In Catalonia, while the libertarian socialists had power,

"Libertarian socialist?" Isn't that a little like "Military Intelligence,"
or ...
http://www.fun-with-words.com/oxym_example.html

A lot of very strange things happened, one place or another, during the
Spanish Civil War.

--
..sig under construction

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 04 May 2004 19:43:45 GMT) it happened "Rich Grise"
<null@example.net> wrote in <RnSlc.150890$L31.70325@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>:

"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c78l3m$brh$1@news.epidc.co.kr...
On a sunny day (Tue, 04 May 2004 09:07:14 -0400) it happened Chuck Harris
cfharris@erols.com> wrote in <40979583$0$3020$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>:

Na, when the ditch digger can't dig, the engineer can't shit (if the dig
was for a sewer for example), and make no products.
No roads no transport no sales...
The ditch digger should get all the money ;-)

Who's the Boss?
When the Lord made man, all the parts of the body argued over who would be
boss.

The brain explained that since he controlled all the parts of the body, he
should be boss. The legs argued that since they took man wherever he wanted
to go, they should be boss. The stomach countered with the explanation that
since he digested all the food, he should be boss. The eyes said that
without them man would be helpless, so they should be boss. Then the asshole
applied for the job. The other parts of the body laughed so hard at this
that the asshole became mad and closed up.

After a few days...

The brain went foggy, the legs got wobbly, the stomach got ill, and the eyes
got crossed and unable to see. They all conceded and made the asshole boss.

This proved that you don't have to be a brain to be boss...

Just an Asshole.



Cheers!
Rich
Nice one, LOL

Tears in my eyes from laughing
JP

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 04 May 2004 14:59:00 -0400) it happened Chuck Harris
<cfharris@erols.com> wrote in <4097e7f4$0$3063$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:

You say that a ditch digger's hours are as valuable as an engineering
designer's. But you are wrong. When a ditch digger finishes digging
his ditch, a ditch is dug. When an engineer finishes a good design,
his labor puts vast numbers of people to work, and society is enrichened
by a new product or service. The two efforts are not even close to
equal.

-Chuck

Na, when the ditch digger can't dig, the engineer can't shit (if the dig
was for a sewer for example), and make no products.
No roads no transport no sales...
The ditch digger should get all the money ;-)

The engineer can always become a ditch digger. All it takes is a shovel
and a pick. Can the ditch digger become an engineer if you give him a
calculator?
With some study, yes, same you would need to make a good ditch.

For example woodwork, I learned to do some carpenting (made some things
in my house, new roof, windows, etc..),
by looking how some guys here were doing it.
As long as one can learn, and all people can, there is little you cannot
do.
JP

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 4 May 2004 18:24:53 +0000 (UTC)) it happened
toor@iquest.net (John S. Dyson) wrote in <c78n5l$30uh$1@news.iquest.net>:

In article <c78l3m$brh$1@news.epidc.co.kr>,
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> writes:
On a sunny day (Tue, 04 May 2004 09:07:14 -0400) it happened Chuck Harris
cfharris@erols.com> wrote in <40979583$0$3020$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>:

R. Steve Walz wrote:

You want equal outcome, despite differences in ability, effort, and pure
dumb luck.

------------------------
Nope, greater effort should result in greater wealth, effort is to
be measured solely by the hours spent at productive labor requested
by the Majority.

That right there is what killed the Soviet Union's socialist experiment.
You are using quantity of work as the predictor of one's wealth, not
quality of work.

The capitalistic system always rewards quality of work more than it
rewards simple quantity.

You say that a ditch digger's hours are as valuable as an engineering
designer's. But you are wrong. When a ditch digger finishes digging
his ditch, a ditch is dug. When an engineer finishes a good design,
his labor puts vast numbers of people to work, and society is enrichened
by a new product or service. The two efforts are not even close to
equal.

-Chuck
Na, when the ditch digger can't dig, the engineer can't shit (if the dig
was for a sewer for example), and make no products.

Apparently, unlike your area, we don't defecate in the trench outside
of the front of our homes. This is probably one reason for the latent
odor from those living in those areas that you suggest... Most of
our 'ditches' tend to be dug by digging machines, as designed by
engineers.

John
This is really too dumb, we have the most advanced sewage systems here,

and a much higher number of people per square meter then where you are,
doing it in a little wooden box behind the house.
The trenches have pipes in these, and these are connected to a central
processing place with huge pumps. controled by electronics.
The stuff is processed, part is used as fertilizer and clean water comes out
via biological cleaning processes.
Whole labs are on line all the time to check the quality.
You should go and have a look in Amsterdam, and actually learn something.
Also all this happens at several meters below sea level, water level control,
more PLCs you have ever seen likely.
There is a lot to it.
JP

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 05 May 2004 06:02:55 GMT) it happened "R. Steve Walz"
<rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <40988457.186F@armory.com>:

No, I simply turn it to mine own meaning, as I do indeed see it
that way. I know True Human Nature.
Then why carry on about such a weard system?

JP

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 04 May 2004 19:49:07 -0500) it happened John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in
<67bg90l9vbnhb1op2qv7csvsraokqfucgs@4ax.com>:

John Fields
You still have no clue.

And no useful input.