Ventilator

On 18/03/20 01:52, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 10:47 am, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 17/03/20 23:41, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 5:38 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked
to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my
extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it
be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but...
what else?

Clifford Heath.

Just a sketch of the systems / function --

o fail-safe battery backup

o measure volume inspired/expired, pressure
o modes: force respiration rate, or detect & assist patient breathing effort
o monitor patient's 02 saturation
o alarm, for various out-of-bounds conditions

I've not seen masks used in the ICU; all the vents I saw required
intubation, with an inflatable balloon used to seal the tube in
the patient's airway.

This page is a decent start...
https://www.medtronic.com/covidien/en-us/support/products/mechanical-ventilation/puritan-bennett-pb980-ventilator.html


Here's the manual for a portable unit:
https://www.medonegroup.com/pdf/manuals/techManuals/Respironics-V60-Service-Manual.pdf


Note that it is *illegal* to manufacture, sell, or use w/o FDA approval.

James, thanks.

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a cartel of
medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US citizens of the
basic affordable health care that's standard in almost every other part of
the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is quite possibly the trigger
to do it (though ventilators are probably not the first brick to be removed
from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

There are good reasons for the law controlling the sale
of medical devices.

The US medical industry isn't one of those reasons.
"Cartel" isn't inappropriate.


It is appropriate, but the health care workers aren't party to it.

Liability lawyers are mostly responsible (taking advantage of your
hyper-individualistic politics), and then insurance companies.

Manufacturers certainly don't mind having very high barriers to entry - that's
one of the factors that determine the profitability of an industry.

Strangely enough, insurance co's love big payouts, because it gives them a
reason to extract and pocket more of the nation's GDP in premiums.

Cartel is exactly the right term.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, other than to note I'm neither American nor in
the US, so the politics aren't mine :)

It is a variant of Eisenhower's military-industrial complex.

Somehow I doubt James will agree.
 
On 18/3/20 7:28 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 18/03/20 01:52, Clifford Heath wrote:
Cartel is exactly the right term.
I don't disagree, other than to note I'm neither American nor in
the US, so the politics aren't mine :)
Click to expand...

Ahh. Ok, sorry, forgot who I was answering.
 
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 9:48:34 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 10:55 am, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

Have you made any progress in your quest for a home made ventilator that you can share?

I've done the required research to know many of the pitfalls, and
decided that I would only do it in a full-on Mad Max situation.

But yeah, I know how to do it McGuyver-style, with things I have here.
It might even save someone rather than kill them.

CH
Click to expand...

One of the key protections *must* be to prevent over-pressurizing
the lungs; they're essentially bags of wet tissue-paper. And you
have to ensure the previous load of air has been expelled before
you dare force a new load in.

Some sort of external strap to cyclically squeeze someone's chest
might simplify some of those life-and-death considerations, and also
avoid the infection risks that come with intubation or masking someone
who has fluid in their lungs, and is coughing up material loaded with
viral and/or bacterial pneumonia pathogens.

James Arthur
 
On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 12:45:01 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 9:48:34 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 10:55 am, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

Have you made any progress in your quest for a home made ventilator that you can share?

I've done the required research to know many of the pitfalls, and
decided that I would only do it in a full-on Mad Max situation.

But yeah, I know how to do it McGuyver-style, with things I have here.
It might even save someone rather than kill them.

CH

One of the key protections *must* be to prevent over-pressurizing
the lungs; they're essentially bags of wet tissue-paper. And you
have to ensure the previous load of air has been expelled before
you dare force a new load in.

Some sort of external strap to cyclically squeeze someone's chest
might simplify some of those life-and-death considerations, and also
avoid the infection risks that come with intubation or masking someone
who has fluid in their lungs, and is coughing up material loaded with
viral and/or bacterial pneumonia pathogens.
Click to expand...

That would only be of use if a person can't work their diaphragm and/or chest muscles. A solution can't help if it doesn't actually address the problem. The problem is the lungs filling with fluid.

What you are suggesting is like giving CPR to someone who's heart is beating just fine.

--

Rick C.

--++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 9:48:34 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 10:55 am, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

Have you made any progress in your quest for a home made ventilator that you can share?

I've done the required research to know many of the pitfalls, and
decided that I would only do it in a full-on Mad Max situation.

But yeah, I know how to do it McGuyver-style, with things I have here.
It might even save someone rather than kill them.

CH

One of the key protections *must* be to prevent over-pressurizing
the lungs; they're essentially bags of wet tissue-paper. And you
have to ensure the previous load of air has been expelled before
you dare force a new load in.

Some sort of external strap to cyclically squeeze someone's chest
might simplify some of those life-and-death considerations, and also
avoid the infection risks that come with intubation or masking someone
who has fluid in their lungs, and is coughing up material loaded with
viral and/or bacterial pneumonia pathogens.

James Arthur
Click to expand...

Has anyone used an air bag, sort of a big blood pressure cuff, to
squeeze the chest periodically and push air in and out? That, and
oxygen, should help, but I haven't heard of it being done.







--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
 
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 4:01:55 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 9:48:34 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 10:55 am, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

Have you made any progress in your quest for a home made ventilator that you can share?

I've done the required research to know many of the pitfalls, and
decided that I would only do it in a full-on Mad Max situation.

But yeah, I know how to do it McGuyver-style, with things I have here.
It might even save someone rather than kill them.

CH

One of the key protections *must* be to prevent over-pressurizing
the lungs; they're essentially bags of wet tissue-paper. And you
have to ensure the previous load of air has been expelled before
you dare force a new load in.

Some sort of external strap to cyclically squeeze someone's chest
might simplify some of those life-and-death considerations, and also
avoid the infection risks that come with intubation or masking someone
who has fluid in their lungs, and is coughing up material loaded with
viral and/or bacterial pneumonia pathogens.

Has anyone used an air bag, sort of a big blood pressure cuff, to
squeeze the chest periodically and push air in and out? That, and
oxygen, should help, but I haven't heard of it being done.
Click to expand...

You'd have to squeeze the stomach as well. Just squeezing the chest would just move the diaphragm down, and the ribs wouldn't like it much either.

I'd expect John Larkin to be grossly ignorant about human anatomy, but James Arthur should have known better.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On 19/3/20 3:44 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 9:48:34 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 10:55 am, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

Have you made any progress in your quest for a home made ventilator that you can share?

I've done the required research to know many of the pitfalls, and
decided that I would only do it in a full-on Mad Max situation.

But yeah, I know how to do it McGuyver-style, with things I have here.
It might even save someone rather than kill them.

CH

One of the key protections *must* be to prevent over-pressurizing
the lungs; they're essentially bags of wet tissue-paper. And you
have to ensure the previous load of air has been expelled before
you dare force a new load in.

Some sort of external strap to cyclically squeeze someone's chest
might simplify some of those life-and-death considerations, and also
avoid the infection risks that come with intubation or masking someone
who has fluid in their lungs, and is coughing up material loaded with
viral and/or bacterial pneumonia pathogens.
Click to expand...

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

<https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320>

And a book on Ventilator design:

<https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20>
 
On 3/18/2020 1:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 9:48:34 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 10:55 am, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

Have you made any progress in your quest for a home made ventilator that you can share?

I've done the required research to know many of the pitfalls, and
decided that I would only do it in a full-on Mad Max situation.

But yeah, I know how to do it McGuyver-style, with things I have here.
It might even save someone rather than kill them.

CH

One of the key protections *must* be to prevent over-pressurizing
the lungs; they're essentially bags of wet tissue-paper. And you
have to ensure the previous load of air has been expelled before
you dare force a new load in.

Some sort of external strap to cyclically squeeze someone's chest
might simplify some of those life-and-death considerations, and also
avoid the infection risks that come with intubation or masking someone
who has fluid in their lungs, and is coughing up material loaded with
viral and/or bacterial pneumonia pathogens.

James Arthur

Has anyone used an air bag, sort of a big blood pressure cuff, to
squeeze the chest periodically and push air in and out? That, and
oxygen, should help, but I haven't heard of it being done.
Click to expand...

What about the Bird Mark 8 Ventilator?

<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Bird_Mark_8_Medical_respirator1.JPG>

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkNIFxUHhTU>

Doesn't look that complex. 3D print that enclosure, stuff inside is just
"vacuum-logic", looks like. Probably some vacuum switches that would
work off the shelf. Automotive?

Doesn't even need electrical power to work it runs off the O2 pressure.
 
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
<no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20
Click to expand...

These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.
 
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 9:44:32 PM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20

These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.
Click to expand...

Only Cursitor Doom would be dumb enough to claim that.

Ventilators can help milder cases but if the pneumonia is bad enough the patient is going to die.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On 20/03/20 10:44, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20


These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.
Click to expand...

Source please.

Without that such (pretty vague and meaningless) statements
are no more than dangerous fake news.

You wouldn't want to spread fake news, would you?
 
These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.
Click to expand...

As i said in another thread, using tube with ventilator (or just pump) is a dangerous precedence for both patient and medical staff. So, when the system is overloaded, the medical staff can't do it properly. Using just face respirator won't help when the patient's lung is full of fluid.
 
On 20/03/2020 14:08, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 20/03/20 10:44, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20



These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.

Source please.

Without that such (pretty vague and meaningless) statements
are no more than dangerous fake news.
Click to expand...

The suggestions as to why include it being a much older population in an
industrial urban area with a fair amount of historic air pollution and
so compromised lungs to begin with. 70% of fatalities are male.

> You wouldn't want to spread fake news, would you?

Death rates to date are significantly different in countries with
broadly similar first world health systems Germany is the best by far:

Fatalities Confirmed cases

Germany 0.28% 44 16k
California 1.8% 18 1k
Japan 3.3% 33 1k
France 3.4% 370 11k
UK 4.8% 144 3k
Italy 8.5% 3400 41k

Source John Hopkins tabular realtime data for Covid-19:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


Numbers increasing in realtime so may change. Germany is an outlier
nearly an order of magnitude better and must be doing something right in
addition to having a fitter younger population. That or they are somehow
distorting how they report Covid related deaths.

WHO puts the average risk at 3.4% but ranging from 15% for the 80+
cohort and dropping by about a factor of two per decade younger.

https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-s-death-rate-is-higher-than-thought-but-it-should-drop

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 1:51:56 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 20/03/2020 14:08, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 20/03/20 10:44, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20



These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.

Source please.

Without that such (pretty vague and meaningless) statements
are no more than dangerous fake news.

The suggestions as to why include it being a much older population in an
industrial urban area with a fair amount of historic air pollution and
so compromised lungs to begin with. 70% of fatalities are male.

You wouldn't want to spread fake news, would you?

Death rates to date are significantly different in countries with
broadly similar first world health systems Germany is the best by far:

Fatalities Confirmed cases

Germany 0.28% 44 16k
California 1.8% 18 1k
Japan 3.3% 33 1k
France 3.4% 370 11k
UK 4.8% 144 3k
Italy 8.5% 3400 41k

Source John Hopkins tabular realtime data for Covid-19:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Click to expand...

This has been covered here ad nauseam. Mortality rate numbers are not accurate for two reasons. They will be high because the true number of infected is higher than the numbers reported. They will be low because the deaths are the end of the disease, but "confirmed cases" are not the end of the disease and some number of those infected will still die.

The spread in mortality rates will be large depending on at least those two effects without looking at any biology.

The best numbers available are from China where the number of infected in nearly down to 10% of the peak and at least the second effect is now minimal as can be seen in the graph of the number over time.

--

Rick C.

--+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On 20/3/20 9:44 pm, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20


These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.
Click to expand...

You don't get the ventilator until you need it. And by then, you have
major organ damage elsewhere, not just lungs full of fluid and fibrosis.

This article depicts the typical progression:
<https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/the-story-of-a-coronavirus-infection.html>

CH
 
On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 1:08:18 AM UTC+11, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 20/03/20 10:44, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20


These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.

Source please.

Without that such (pretty vague and meaningless) statements
are no more than dangerous fake news.

You wouldn't want to spread fake news, would you?
Click to expand...

Cursitor Doom doesn't spread anything else.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 5:42:10 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 20/3/20 9:44 pm, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20


These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.


You don't get the ventilator until you need it. And by then, you have
major organ damage elsewhere, not just lungs full of fluid and fibrosis.

This article depicts the typical progression:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/the-story-of-a-coronavirus-infection.html

CH
Click to expand...

If that were typical, everyone on the Diamond Princess would've died.

To the thread topic, I read that in the last SARS outbreak China
gifted us (2003), it was learned that CPAP machines will do in
a pinch.

Cheers,
James Arthur
 
On 21/03/20 12:39, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 5:42:10 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 20/3/20 9:44 pm, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:41:01 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

Here's the result of one of the open source efforts. It uses a standard
"bag" such as ambulance staff are trained to use. They require skill and
judgement, but presumably have some safeguards built in.

https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1238899475621560320

And a book on Ventilator design:

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=520&sectionid=41692239%20


These things are not a panacea, though. In Italy they've had critical
care patients hooked up to proper, commercially-built and certified
ventilators but these patients have still been dying - and they can't
work out why.


You don't get the ventilator until you need it. And by then, you have
major organ damage elsewhere, not just lungs full of fluid and fibrosis.

This article depicts the typical progression:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/the-story-of-a-coronavirus-infection.html

CH

If that were typical, everyone on the Diamond Princess would've died.

To the thread topic, I read that in the last SARS outbreak China
gifted us (2003), it was learned that CPAP machines will do in
a pinch.
Click to expand...

That's hopeful, iff the damage to the lungs is similar.

One interesting technique is, reportedly, to have four
people connected to one ventilator. They need to have
the same (nominal!) lung volume and the pipes need to
be the same length. Patients are arranged in a star
with the ventilator in the middle.

While that's plausible, I would like to see a decent
source for the concept.
 
On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 10:57:59 +1100, Clifford Heath
<no.spam@please.net> wrote:

The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked
to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my
extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it
be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but...
what else?

Clifford Heath.
Click to expand...

This might be of interest:

"Low cost ventilator for standalone use during the Covid-19 pandemic"
<https://hackaday.io/project/170401-low-cost-ventilator>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:4ced7ftdf3vnq0r7qaj3ht0h9cajv4q3a2@4ax.com:

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 10:57:59 +1100, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is
linked to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking
at my extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how
hard can it be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the
next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these
things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask,
but... what else?

Clifford Heath.

This might be of interest:

"Low cost ventilator for standalone use during the Covid-19
pandemic" <https://hackaday.io/project/170401-low-cost-ventilator
Click to expand...

Did you see the news piece on Elon Musk? He is making ventilators.
So he says...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top