Ventilator

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote in
news:r4mofi017gb@news1.newsguy.com:

On 3/15/2020 9:52 PM, clifford.heath@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 12:39:13 PM UTC+11, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 9:21:01 PM UTC-4,
cliffo...@gmail.com wrote:
If my family start dying, you think I'm gonna worry about
getting chastised?
OMG! I was making a joke.

It wasn't funny. You should have known that.
...

I thought it was. Please calm down.

NO! SWEAT IT OUT WITH ANGER!!!

AND BELCHES!

AND FARTS!

DON'T FORGET TO PROJECTILE VOMIT!

BUT WHATEVER YOU DO... DO NOT TOUCH YOUR FACE OR COUGH OR SNEEZE!

BWUAHAHAHAHA!

 

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ea7f2a76-9c58-484c-b4de-13c3697d3663@googlegroups.com:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

A million here, millions elsewhere. So why do the "top
epidemiologists" (reminds me of the closing scene in "Raiders of
the Lost Ark") think the new infection rate is so low now in
China and yet in the US we are doomed???

Because Pence is in charge here and wasn't in charge in China?

Seriously, epidemiologists' thoughts on this subject are complex
and conditional, and the conditions... are unknown, partly because
our high-level Federal conferences on the subject are classified.
Thank the white house for that.

Yet the utter retard Nunes was on FoxTard Non-News today jacking
off at the mouth "about its origins". So, the last thing we need to
do is incite an atmosphere that causes less cooperation. IF they are
all on about the point source or whatever, would that too not be
"classified"? Or best to classify it so as not to inflame?

What it was, however, was more politisizing and campaign talk up of
how good a job Trump is doing on it.

That motherfucker needs to be down in a cell at GITMO too.

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

> A million here, millions elsewhere. So why do the "top epidemiologists" (reminds me of the closing scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark") think the new infection rate is so low now in China and yet in the US we are doomed???

Because Pence is in charge here and wasn't in charge in China?

Seriously, epidemiologists' thoughts on this subject are complex and conditional, and
the conditions... are unknown, partly because our high-level Federal conferences on
the subject are classified. Thank the white house for that.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 16/03/20 01:59, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 9:46:25 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 9:21:01 PM UTC-4, cliffo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 12:12:16 PM UTC+11, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is
linked to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at
my extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard
can it be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two
weeks?"

None that you can legally use on a human being. There are rigorous
safety hurdles you must pass for equipment like this. In particular it
is not so easy to inflate lungs without doing damage. Consider that
air is normally drawn into the lungs by the partial vacuum created, not
by an elevated pressure created on the outside. Too much pressure into
the lungs and damage is done to the alveoli, air gets into the
bloodstream and the person dies of an embolism.


Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these
things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask,
but... what else?

I think we need to take your slide rule away and teach you to wash your
hands well and often.

F**k you and your slide-rule insults. If you have nothing to offer, then
say nothing!

I daresay plenty of rules will be broken when enough people start dying.
Whether you admit it or not, that's imminent. How many deaths will it
take? Experts are predicting a million deaths in the USA alone. Seattle
is already deciding who gets the machines, and who dies - and it's only
just beginning.

If my family start dying, you think I'm gonna worry about getting
chastised?

_You may not be old enough to remember " iron lungs ' , but they did not
use a bellows and face mask. Try googling " iron lung " . It might give
you an idea of what is needed.

Dan

I am not speaking from specific knowledge of ventilators, but I do know an
iron lung is a different device. That was used to inflate a patient's lungs
because their muscles were immobilized from a polio infection. Their head
was outside of the iron lung and the pressure inside would vary to draw a
partial vacuum which would result in the chest rising and filling with air
through the normal passageways which were connected to the normal air
pressure outside.

I believe a ventilator is different in that the patient's airways are at
least partially blocked. The patient can move their diaphragm and chest to
inflate their lungs. But the fluid inside the lung prevents much air from
reaching the alveoli where the oxygen can transport to the blood. So a
positive pressure is used to inflate more of the lung. I have no idea how
they prevent damage while doing this. I'm sure it also helps to provide pure
O2 while doing this.

You are thinking about a patient that is "intubated". Many
uses of lung ventilators do not presume intubation; a face
mask is sufficient.

I do not know whether intubation would be required with a
typical coronavirus patient.

I really don't think this is at all a practical home brew project. But I'm
happy for someone to show me I'm wrong.

Modern ventilators are versatile, subtle, expensive and scarce.

Early ventilators were crude, cheap and simple. I do not know
what might /sufficient/ for /some/ coronavirus patients

 

[David Brown]

On 16/03/2020 02:59, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 9:46:25 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 9:21:01 PM UTC-4, cliffo...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 12:12:16 PM UTC+11, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath
wrote:
The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus
is linked to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm
looking at my extensive collection of project materials and
thinking "how hard can it be to make a ventilator? How many
could I make in the next two weeks?"

None that you can legally use on a human being. There are
rigorous safety hurdles you must pass for equipment like this.
In particular it is not so easy to inflate lungs without doing
damage. Consider that air is normally drawn into the lungs by
the partial vacuum created, not by an elevated pressure created
on the outside. Too much pressure into the lungs and damage is
done to the alveoli, air gets into the bloodstream and the
person dies of an embolism.


Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of
these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face
mask, but... what else?

I think we need to take your slide rule away and teach you to
wash your hands well and often.

F**k you and your slide-rule insults. If you have nothing to
offer, then say nothing!

I daresay plenty of rules will be broken when enough people start
dying. Whether you admit it or not, that's imminent. How many
deaths will it take? Experts are predicting a million deaths in
the USA alone. Seattle is already deciding who gets the machines,
and who dies - and it's only just beginning.

If my family start dying, you think I'm gonna worry about getting
chastised?

_You may not be old enough to remember " iron lungs ' , but they
did not use a bellows and face mask. Try googling " iron lung " .
It might give you an idea of what is needed.

Dan

I am not speaking from specific knowledge of ventilators, but I do
know an iron lung is a different device. That was used to inflate a
patient's lungs because their muscles were immobilized from a polio
infection. Their head was outside of the iron lung and the pressure
inside would vary to draw a partial vacuum which would result in the
chest rising and filling with air through the normal passageways
which were connected to the normal air pressure outside.

I believe a ventilator is different in that the patient's airways are
at least partially blocked. The patient can move their diaphragm and
chest to inflate their lungs. But the fluid inside the lung prevents
much air from reaching the alveoli where the oxygen can transport to
the blood. So a positive pressure is used to inflate more of the
lung. I have no idea how they prevent damage while doing this. I'm
sure it also helps to provide pure O2 while doing this.

You certainly don't provide pure O2 - that would destroy the lung
tissue. But higher than normal O2 percent is fine, as long as it is
controlled.

And quite simply, a CPAP ventilator works by having a /small/ constant
positive air pressure. Enough to help, not enough to cause damage.

The principle of this kind of ventilator is not difficult - making sure
it is properly regulated, and knowing the right values to regulate at,
are the hard parts, and the reason why home-made junk is likely to be a
very bad idea.

I really don't think this is at all a practical home brew project.
But I'm happy for someone to show me I'm wrong.

Home brew by people who know what they are doing could be fine. But
most people don't know what they are doing, and that's where you get the
risks.

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:31:18 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:08:32 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

A million here, millions elsewhere. So why do the "top epidemiologists" (reminds me of the closing scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark") think the new infection rate is so low now in China and yet in the US we are doomed???

Because Pence is in charge here and wasn't in charge in China?

Seriously, epidemiologists' thoughts on this subject are complex and conditional, and
the conditions... are unknown, partly because our high-level Federal conferences on
the subject are classified. Thank the white house for that.

Our State Dept. put out a China travel advisory Jan. 27th (when
WHO was still urging countries not to restrict travel(*)), then we
banned all non-citizens traveling from China on Jan. 31st.

(*) E.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/health/coronavirus-world-health-organization.html

The press called the moves racist and xenophobic. Those moves likely
spared us a lot of other countries' miseries.

Spared us??? We are currently number 8 on the list of infection counts and likely much higher in reality due to our lack of ability to test for infections! WTF were we spared exactly???

Even yesterday our pres doesn't get that we need to emphasize social distancing and not wait for the numbers to reach the levels we saw in China before taking the sort of action they did in China that finally worked.

Keeping pandemic deliberations secret only serves to protect the leaders. It does nothing to help the people of this country.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:08:32 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

A million here, millions elsewhere. So why do the "top epidemiologists" (reminds me of the closing scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark") think the new infection rate is so low now in China and yet in the US we are doomed???

Because Pence is in charge here and wasn't in charge in China?

Seriously, epidemiologists' thoughts on this subject are complex and conditional, and
the conditions... are unknown, partly because our high-level Federal conferences on
the subject are classified. Thank the white house for that.

Our State Dept. put out a China travel advisory Jan. 27th (when
WHO was still urging countries not to restrict travel(*)), then we
banned all non-citizens traveling from China on Jan. 31st.

(*) E.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/health/coronavirus-world-health-organization.html

The press called the moves racist and xenophobic. Those moves likely
spared us a lot of other countries' miseries.

The administration was acting on all of this while the Democrats were
busy helping by...impeaching the president.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:43:52 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:31:18 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:08:32 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

A million here, millions elsewhere. So why do the "top epidemiologists" (reminds me of the closing scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark") think the new infection rate is so low now in China and yet in the US we are doomed???

Because Pence is in charge here and wasn't in charge in China?

Seriously, epidemiologists' thoughts on this subject are complex and conditional, and
the conditions... are unknown, partly because our high-level Federal conferences on
the subject are classified. Thank the white house for that.

Our State Dept. put out a China travel advisory Jan. 27th (when
WHO was still urging countries not to restrict travel(*)), then we
banned all non-citizens traveling from China on Jan. 31st.

(*) E.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/health/coronavirus-world-health-organization.html

The press called the moves racist and xenophobic. Those moves likely
spared us a lot of other countries' miseries.

Spared us??? We are currently number 8 on the list of infection counts and likely much higher in reality due to our lack of ability to test for infections! WTF were we spared exactly???

Country Cases/1M pop
------- --------------
Italy 462.8
Switzerland 271.9
Norway 246.1
Spain 201.6
Iran 178.5
S. Korea 160.6
Denmark 157.8
Estonia 154.5
Qatar 152.4
Bahrain 133.4
Slovenia 121.7
Austria 113
Sweden 110.8
France 101.6
Belgium 91.3
Germany 86.4
Netherlands 82.5
China 56.2
Finland 50.2
Singapore 41.5
Cyprus 38.1
Israel 34.4
Ireland 34.4
Greece 33.8
Portugal 32.5
Czechia 32.1
Kuwait 28.8
UK 22.7
Hong Kong 20.7
Latvia 18
Albania 17.7
Malaysia 17.5
Lebanon 16
Armenia 15.2
Australia 14.7
Croatia 13.9
Slovakia 13.2
USA 13
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked
to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my
extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it
be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but...
what else?

Clifford Heath.

What else is a few years of appropriate medical training. You just don't hook people up to a pump and leave them. These machines are instrumented to make several vital readings for a reason. The operation needs to be monitored by an acute care respiratory therapist. You could just as easily kill the patient as save them. And you need additional lab grade instruments to supplement the ventilator.
https://www.aarc.org/resources/clinical-resources/strategic-national-stockpile-ventilator-training-program/

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 4:23:39 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:43:52 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:31:18 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:08:32 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

A million here, millions elsewhere. So why do the "top epidemiologists" (reminds me of the closing scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark") think the new infection rate is so low now in China and yet in the US we are doomed???

Because Pence is in charge here and wasn't in charge in China?

Seriously, epidemiologists' thoughts on this subject are complex and conditional, and
the conditions... are unknown, partly because our high-level Federal conferences on
the subject are classified. Thank the white house for that.

Our State Dept. put out a China travel advisory Jan. 27th (when
WHO was still urging countries not to restrict travel(*)), then we
banned all non-citizens traveling from China on Jan. 31st.

(*) E.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/health/coronavirus-world-health-organization.html

The press called the moves racist and xenophobic. Those moves likely
spared us a lot of other countries' miseries.

Spared us??? We are currently number 8 on the list of infection counts and likely much higher in reality due to our lack of ability to test for infections! WTF were we spared exactly???

Country Cases/1M pop
------- --------------
Italy 462.8
Switzerland 271.9
Norway 246.1
Spain 201.6
Iran 178.5
S. Korea 160.6
Denmark 157.8
Estonia 154.5
Qatar 152.4
Bahrain 133.4
Slovenia 121.7
Austria 113
Sweden 110.8
France 101.6
Belgium 91.3
Germany 86.4
Netherlands 82.5
China 56.2
Finland 50.2
Singapore 41.5
Cyprus 38.1
Israel 34.4
Ireland 34.4
Greece 33.8
Portugal 32.5
Czechia 32.1
Kuwait 28.8
UK 22.7
Hong Kong 20.7
Latvia 18
Albania 17.7
Malaysia 17.5
Lebanon 16
Armenia 15.2
Australia 14.7
Croatia 13.9
Slovakia 13.2
USA 13
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You clearly have no idea what this disease is about. It's not a contest. We haven't been spared anything. The disease is running rampant and will continue to grow exponentially until we do something. But instead of acknowledging that, you want to play a numbers game that shows we are on par with Sovakia. Huzzah!

Here's the column you should be looking at.

Country Total New cases
Italy 27,980 +3,233
Spain 9,428 +1,440
Germany 7,241 +1,428
France 6,633 +1,210
Iran 14,991 +1,053
USA 4,252 +572

We are in sixth place. We won't be next to Slovakia very long. We can call this group the C6.

Our infected population is multiplying by 10 every 8 days. If we can't do something about this we will be second on the chart of total infected, right behind China and then overtake even them. Less than two weeks to go. The numbers don't lie. We're number 1! We're number 1! USA! USA!

If the numbers continue their exponential growth, by March 26 the US will have more infected than China. Even if we put the entire country in lock down today, the numbers of infected will continue to grow since there is an incubation period to being symptomatic enough to be tested. With 90,000 noticeably infected and some 5% of those needing medical intervention, we are not going to be up to the task of dealing with this.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 4:23:39 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

Cheers,
James Arthur

Part of the reason that I come here is because people will challenge my arguments. It was only in my last reply that the full enormity of the situation hit me. Realizing that it will only take less than two more weeks of continued exponential growth in the US to exceed the peak of the infection in China is enormous. So in the month of April we can expect to have overcrowded hospitals and a shortage of resources to treat the seriously ill from this disease. And we are just now getting around to the White House recommending "social distancing".

The Chinese didn't get their infection rate under control until they put the affected areas of the country into virtual lock down with no one allowed to leave their homes. What will it take for that to happen here? Next month we will have to pay the piper. Who's calling the tunes now?

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 6:11:12 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 4:23:39 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:43:52 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:31:18 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:08:32 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

A million here, millions elsewhere. So why do the "top epidemiologists" (reminds me of the closing scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark") think the new infection rate is so low now in China and yet in the US we are doomed???

Because Pence is in charge here and wasn't in charge in China?

Seriously, epidemiologists' thoughts on this subject are complex and conditional, and
the conditions... are unknown, partly because our high-level Federal conferences on
the subject are classified. Thank the white house for that.

Our State Dept. put out a China travel advisory Jan. 27th (when
WHO was still urging countries not to restrict travel(*)), then we
banned all non-citizens traveling from China on Jan. 31st.

(*) E.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/health/coronavirus-world-health-organization.html

The press called the moves racist and xenophobic. Those moves likely
spared us a lot of other countries' miseries.

Spared us??? We are currently number 8 on the list of infection counts and likely much higher in reality due to our lack of ability to test for infections! WTF were we spared exactly???

Country Cases/1M pop
------- --------------
Italy 462.8
Switzerland 271.9
Norway 246.1
Spain 201.6
Iran 178.5
S. Korea 160.6
Denmark 157.8
Estonia 154.5
Qatar 152.4
Bahrain 133.4
Slovenia 121.7
Austria 113
Sweden 110.8
France 101.6
Belgium 91.3
Germany 86.4
Netherlands 82.5
China 56.2
Finland 50.2
Singapore 41.5
Cyprus 38.1
Israel 34.4
Ireland 34.4
Greece 33.8
Portugal 32.5
Czechia 32.1
Kuwait 28.8
UK 22.7
Hong Kong 20.7
Latvia 18
Albania 17.7
Malaysia 17.5
Lebanon 16
Armenia 15.2
Australia 14.7
Croatia 13.9
Slovakia 13.2
USA 13
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You clearly have no idea what this disease is about.

That's called the "Dunning-Kruger effect."

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 1:16:18 PM UTC+11, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 6:11:12 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 4:23:39 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:43:52 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:31:18 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 3:08:32 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

<snip>

You clearly have no idea what this disease is about.

That's called the "Dunning-Kruger effect."

And James Arthur exhibits it to perfection.

He's convinced that his silly ideas are not only correct, but also definitive.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked
to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my
extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it
be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but...
what else?

Clifford Heath.

Clifford, I've plowed through all my old files unsuccessfully
looking for my copy, but in 2016 I was able to download the
operator and theory of operation manual for a popular
ventilator directly from the manufacturer's site.

I think you'd find it a comprehensive treatment.

Alas, I've been through multiple computers, notebooks &
tablets and I can't find my download, otherwise I'd
point you straight to it.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked
to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my
extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it
be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but...
what else?

Clifford Heath.

Just a sketch of the systems / function --

o fail-safe battery backup

o measure volume inspired/expired, pressure
o modes: force respiration rate, or detect & assist patient breathing effort
o monitor patient's 02 saturation
o alarm, for various out-of-bounds conditions

I've not seen masks used in the ICU; all the vents I saw required
intubation, with an inflatable balloon used to seal the tube in
the patient's airway.

This page is a decent start...
https://www.medtronic.com/covidien/en-us/support/products/mechanical-ventilation/puritan-bennett-pb980-ventilator.html

Here's the manual for a portable unit:
https://www.medonegroup.com/pdf/manuals/techManuals/Respironics-V60-Service-Manual.pdf

Note that it is *illegal* to manufacture, sell, or use w/o FDA approval.

HTH,
James Arthur

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 18/3/20 5:38 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked
to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my
extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it
be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but...
what else?

Clifford Heath.

Just a sketch of the systems / function --

o fail-safe battery backup

o measure volume inspired/expired, pressure
o modes: force respiration rate, or detect & assist patient breathing effort
o monitor patient's 02 saturation
o alarm, for various out-of-bounds conditions

I've not seen masks used in the ICU; all the vents I saw required
intubation, with an inflatable balloon used to seal the tube in
the patient's airway.

This page is a decent start...
https://www.medtronic.com/covidien/en-us/support/products/mechanical-ventilation/puritan-bennett-pb980-ventilator.html

Here's the manual for a portable unit:
https://www.medonegroup.com/pdf/manuals/techManuals/Respironics-V60-Service-Manual.pdf

Note that it is *illegal* to manufacture, sell, or use w/o FDA approval.

James, thanks.

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

CH.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 17/03/20 23:41, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 18/3/20 5:38 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked
to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my
extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it
be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but...
what else?

Clifford Heath.

Just a sketch of the systems / function --

o fail-safe battery backup

o measure volume inspired/expired, pressure
o modes: force respiration rate, or detect & assist patient breathing effort
o monitor patient's 02 saturation
o alarm, for various out-of-bounds conditions

I've not seen masks used in the ICU; all the vents I saw required
intubation, with an inflatable balloon used to seal the tube in
the patient's airway.

This page is a decent start...
https://www.medtronic.com/covidien/en-us/support/products/mechanical-ventilation/puritan-bennett-pb980-ventilator.html


Here's the manual for a portable unit:
https://www.medonegroup.com/pdf/manuals/techManuals/Respironics-V60-Service-Manual.pdf


Note that it is *illegal* to manufacture, sell, or use w/o FDA approval.

James, thanks.

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a cartel of
medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US citizens of the
basic affordable health care that's standard in almost every other part of the
world. That cartel must be broken, and this is quite possibly the trigger to do
it (though ventilators are probably not the first brick to be removed from the
wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying unnecessarily.

There are good reasons for the law controlling the sale
of medical devices.

The US medical industry isn't one of those reasons.
"Cartel" isn't inappropriate.

Change cause (the medical cartels) not the
effect (expensive equipment and treatment)

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

Have you made any progress in your quest for a home made ventilator that you can share?

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 18/3/20 10:47 am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 17/03/20 23:41, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 18/3/20 5:38 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 7:58:06 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked
to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my
extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it
be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but...
what else?

Clifford Heath.

Just a sketch of the systems / function --

o fail-safe battery backup

o measure volume inspired/expired, pressure
o modes: force respiration rate, or detect & assist patient breathing
effort
o monitor patient's 02 saturation
o alarm, for various out-of-bounds conditions

I've not seen masks used in the ICU; all the vents I saw required
intubation, with an inflatable balloon used to seal the tube in
the patient's airway.

This page is a decent start...
https://www.medtronic.com/covidien/en-us/support/products/mechanical-ventilation/puritan-bennett-pb980-ventilator.html


Here's the manual for a portable unit:
https://www.medonegroup.com/pdf/manuals/techManuals/Respironics-V60-Service-Manual.pdf


Note that it is *illegal* to manufacture, sell, or use w/o FDA approval.

James, thanks.

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived
US citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in
almost every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and
this is quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are
probably not the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

There are good reasons for the law controlling the sale
of medical devices.

The US medical industry isn't one of those reasons.
"Cartel" isn't inappropriate.

It is appropriate, but the health care workers aren't party to it.

Liability lawyers are mostly responsible (taking advantage of your
hyper-individualistic politics), and then insurance companies.

Manufacturers certainly don't mind having very high barriers to entry -
that's one of the factors that determine the profitability of an industry.

Strangely enough, insurance co's love big payouts, because it gives them
a reason to extract and pocket more of the nation's GDP in premiums.

Cartel is exactly the right term.

CH

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 18/3/20 10:55 am, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

"Illegal" in the USA has (for decades) been under the control of a
cartel of medical, legal and insurance industries which has deprived US
citizens of the basic affordable health care that's standard in almost
every other part of the world. That cartel must be broken, and this is
quite possibly the trigger to do it (though ventilators are probably not
the first brick to be removed from the wall).

People's appetite for risk changes when their loved ones start dying
unnecessarily.

Have you made any progress in your quest for a home made ventilator that you can share?

I've done the required research to know many of the pitfalls, and
decided that I would only do it in a full-on Mad Max situation.

But yeah, I know how to do it McGuyver-style, with things I have here.
It might even save someone rather than kill them.

CH