Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:25:04 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote:

He agreed that, even though the pitch, gauge, and number of drive links
are the same, the Oregon H72 is the *wrong* chain for the narrow-kerf bar
that is on my Husqvarna 445 (the right chain is the Oregon G72).

<http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Chain/Chainsaw-Chain-325-Pitch-x-050-Gauge/>
<http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Chain/Chainsaw-Chain-325-Pitch-x-050-Gauge/Narrow-Kerf-Chainsaw-Chain/>
<http://www.baileysonline.com/Pages/Chainsaw-Chain-Cross-Reference-Chart/>
Note how many different types of 0.325 pitch chain is available.
0.325 is not the same as 3/8 which is 0.375.

I suggest you buy or download the Oregon "Maintenance and Safety
Manual". Lots of good info that might keep you out of trouble:
<http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/pdf/maintenance_manual/ms_manual.pdf>
<http://www.oregonproducts.com/maintenance/manual.htm>
I'm not sure where to get the printed version. I forgot where I stole
my copy.

For your amusement:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html>

1AM and I'm dead tired. Later...

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[dadiOH]

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:m0gkni$e0b$7@dont-email.me

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:

http://baileysonline.com/Pages/Chainsaw-Chain-Cross-Reference-Chart

I called the number at that reference 707-984-8115 but it is 3am in
California and only 6am Eastern, so the "answering service" took down my
question and someone will call me back at 9am Eastern (6am my time) to
answer my question of:

Q: How can a standard-kerf chain possibly damage a narrow-kerf bar?

I'll take a guess

When a tooth is cutting there is force applied toward the bar, thinner bar
less able to resist that force. The greater the tooth bite, the greater
the force. Ditto for any lateral motion.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

 

[Mike Marlow]

Danny D. wrote:

The only problem is that it's *not* a low-kickback chain!

Don't worry about that.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

 

[Mike Marlow]

Danny D. wrote:

I don't know if it matters, or not, because I have never used a non
low- kickback chain before.

If you saw properly you don't need to worry about it. The most important
thing is to not engage the top of the tip of your bar in the wood. Read
your owner's manual - it will assuredly have a diagram showing the danger
area of your bar.

I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in
when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend:

See the above comment.

Some of those Monterrey Pine logs are wider than the 18 inch chain,
so, I had to "girdle" them to cut them fully through:

No relevance to kickback Dan.

AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a
low-kickback chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it
differently?

There is no such thing as a high kickback chain - just a regular chain.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

 

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/1/2014 7:58 AM, Danny D. wrote:

I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in
when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend:

AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a low-kickback
chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it differently?
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/15201608420_0e77d52069_b.jpg

The term refers to when the operator touches
the tip of the bar to the wood.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/service/kickback.htm

Because of the harsh curve there, the cutting teeth
are more exposed. It's possible for the bar to come
flying back at you. Can be dangerous or lethal.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

 

[Ralph Mowery]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:hpdn2all1mfud8gn7vc4f4dn3jmpc4mvn2@4ax.com...

For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html

Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I have
a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN)



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

 

[Pico Rico]

"Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:atadnf7cUNF6grHJnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@earthlink.com...

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:hpdn2all1mfud8gn7vc4f4dn3jmpc4mvn2@4ax.com...

For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html


Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I
have a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN)

first, you have to get that chain saw moving REALLY fast.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:58:28 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:


For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html

It's a Husqvarna 136. My guess is about 25 years old. I got it in a
trade for some repair work because it needed a new carburetor. Some
cleaning and adjusting solved that problem. The repair job in the
photo was just the fuel line. I got tired of replacing it and
replaced it with a thicker equivalent. In order to make it fit, I had
to enlarge the hole in one of the plastic parts. The required tearing
it down to what you see in the photo. It was also useful for cleaning
out the oily sawdust from odd corners. A simple job that ended up
taking about 5 hrs work.

That looks like my Husqvarna 445!
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/15201608420_0e77d52069_b.jpg

The engine is very different. The 445 is a reduced emissions X-torq
machine which is quite different from my old 136:
<http://www.husqvarna.com/us/construction/innovations/x-torq/>

Did you have a photo of the 7-tooth spur type sprocket?
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3871/15370519536_4101368b98_c.jpg

That looks brand new. The sprocket doesn't have the tradition gouge
down the middle from the drive links. I have a fair collection of
chains for each saw (I think I have about 6 saws), each with its own
matching rim sprocket.
<http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Products/HUSQVARNA/Sprockets/Rim-Sprockets>
If you're not a heavy user (i.e. not doing logging) you probably don't
need to go to such extremes. However, I like to use my chains well
past the traditional point where they should be recycled, so matching
the wear is required.

Incidentally, Bailey's is for professional loggers. They know just
about everything there is to know about using chain saws for logging,
but are not terribly interested in homeowners. Locally, you might try
giving Webb's a visit:
<http://webbs-farmsupplies.com>

I had accidentally used a 62-drive-link 18" chain (instead of a 72-link
0.325" pitch 0.050" gauge narrow-kerf chain), so I was worried about
sprocket damage.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/15385110011_944028f121_c.jpg

Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube
and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me.

My take on the narrow kerf bars and chains is that if you don't lube
them properly, the reduced contact area between the chain and bar will
ruin both somewhat faster than a standard bar and chain. I have a few
narrow kerf bars in my pile that I traded out with owners because of
this problem. I plan to grind the bars flat again, but haven't had
the time or interest. Oddly, I've never bothered to compare the
normal and narrow kerfs cutting abilities. These days, I just hire
the locals to do my tree work for me. I'm getting too old for this
type of exercise.




--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 11:58:52 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:30:42 -0400:

The only problem is that it's *not* a low-kickback chain!

Don't worry about that.

I don't know if it matters, or not, because I have never used a non low-
kickback chain before.

I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in
when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2946/15201608230_b84d3373ba_b.jpg

Some of those Monterrey Pine logs are wider than the 18 inch chain, so, I
had to "girdle" them to cut them fully through:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3883/15201608510_8e147c05e6_c.jpg

AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a low-kickback
chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it differently?
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/15201608420_0e77d52069_b.jpg

Last summer I had a saw with the chain brake kick back on me for the
first time. That brake worked great. The saw never got close to my
body but if it had the chain would not have been moving. I am
impressed.
Eric

 

[Mike Marlow]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube
and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me.

Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be
expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy
into a tivy...

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 11:42:12 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
<rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:hpdn2all1mfud8gn7vc4f4dn3jmpc4mvn2@4ax.com...

For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html

Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I have
a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN)

I may have the opportunity to test the IFR with a chain saw. The
IFR-1500 currently has a very dead power supply. I thought I had it
fixed, but it didn't last:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/IFR-1500%20Power%20Supply%20Repair/IFR-1500%20power%20supply%20repair.html>
I've tried to repair it by replacing almost every part in the AC
section without success. I'm going to try replacing it completely
with a 117VAC only PC desktop power supply (I don't need DC
operation). If that doesn't work, it's either eBay or the chain saw.

Also, the Wiltron sweeper on the left decided to celebrate its 30th(?)
birthday with a volcanic eruption of one of the PS electrolytics. It's
been moved to the "to be fixed" pile. The HP 141T spectrum analyzer
on the right was upgraded to a slightly better mutation. I have 3
such mainframes with assorted plugins. The glass bottle to the left
of the IFR-1500 is environmentally incorrect mercury.

Workbench, without the chain saw:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/BL-shop6.html>

Here's the shop the last time it was presentable:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/test-equip-mess.html>

It's amazing what I can accomplish in the 2 sq-ft of empty benchtop
space remaining.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 08:59:20 -0700, "Pico Rico" <PicoRico@nonospam.com>
wrote:

Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I
have a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN)

first, you have to get that chain saw moving REALLY fast.

Not really. Just use a carbide chain:
<http://rapcoindustries.com>
<http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/other-shows/videos/time-warp-chainsaw-cutting-metal.htm>
(1:16)
The catches are that the chain costs $25/ft in 100ft rolls and
requires a diamond wheel to resharpen.






--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Charlie+]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:54:10 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote as underneath :

They all said there are four (4) dimensions that must be matched!
1. pitch (distance between links)
2. gauge (thickness of the part that goes into the rail)
3. drive link number (determines the length of the chain, with pitch)
4. kerf width (a major determinant of the power needed to cut & kickback)

What they say in 4. is obviously true, but just dont push it to cut so
fast that the chain slows down, a slow chain is more grabby, less cutty!
Hence the kickback warning... C+

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube
and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me.

Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be
expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy
into a tivy...

It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will
stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to
form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left
to actually lubricate the bar and chain.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch>
If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black
greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need
to add some additional "tackifier":
<https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier>

The grease is the "sprocket grease", which lubricates the bar tip
sprocket:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+sprocket+great&tbm=isch#tbm=isch>

Unless you're doing wood carving with a chain saw, a clean bar and
chain is usually an indication of lubrication failure, or a compulsive
clean freak.

This is what a properly lubricated bar and chain should look like:
<http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080622124148/marvel_dc/images/6/6b/TCM_1A.jpg>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Mike Marlow]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar
lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry
to me.

Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the
poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to
really throw this guy into a tivy...

It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will
stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to
form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left
to actually lubricate the bar and chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch
If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black
greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need
to add some additional "tackifier":
https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier

Oh - OK - bar and chain lube - but that's not a grease, it's an oil.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 06:39:46 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar
lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry
to me.

Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the
poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to
really throw this guy into a tivy...

It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will
stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to
form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left
to actually lubricate the bar and chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch
If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black
greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need
to add some additional "tackifier":
https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier

Oh - OK - bar and chain lube - but that's not a grease, it's an oil.

Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor.
2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply.

Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor.
2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Mike Marlow]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor.
2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply.

Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor.
2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply.

Jeff - I don't know where you get your information from but what you are
saying here is just flat wrong. Do some research on the vicosity of the
very products you posted a link to. They are oils - regardless of your
homespun definitions. Show me any chainsaw manufacturer that suggests the
kind of glue you are talking about over a regular bar and chain oil. In
fact - show me why the very link you provided is anything but a bar and
chain oil.

To the OP - ignore the advice about "grease". It is totally unfounded.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 21:29:48 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor.
2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply.

Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor.
2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply.

Jeff - I don't know where you get your information from but what you are
saying here is just flat wrong. Do some research on the vicosity of the
very products you posted a link to. They are oils - regardless of your
homespun definitions. Show me any chainsaw manufacturer that suggests the
kind of glue you are talking about over a regular bar and chain oil. In
fact - show me why the very link you provided is anything but a bar and
chain oil.

To the OP - ignore the advice about "grease". It is totally unfounded.

Please re-read what I actually wrote:
Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have
bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It
looks dry to me.
The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.
The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it
comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not
suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.

This might help:
"How to Lubricate your Chainsaw Sprocket"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYlmHgK8Qbc>
Whenever I add bar oil/lube to the oil tank on my saws, or put away
the saws for the day, I also lube the bar sprocket with grease.

"What is the difference between oil and grease"?
<http://www.ask.com/science/difference-between-oil-grease-cc16c0bde30b7d23#full-answer>
...oil is the general term that applies to all liquid lubricants,
while greases are oils that have been mixed with a thickening
agent, which turns them into a semi-solid material.

However, if you're into ecology, you might want to look into using
vegetable oils for bar lube:
<http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/98511316/98511316.html>
<http://eartheasy.com/blog/2010/11/using-vegetable-oil-to-replace-chainsaw-oil/>
I couldn't resist trying it. It worked quite well on a saw with a new
blade and chain. However, with a much older and sloppier chain, I was
consuming vegetable oil far too quickly and emptied the tank before I
ran out of gasoline. It also tended to sling oil more than ordinary
petroleum based bar oil. On the other hand, it smelled good, washed
out of my clothes easily, and the smell made me crave fried food.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Mike Marlow]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Please re-read what I actually wrote:
Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have
bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It
looks dry to me.
The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.
The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it
comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not
suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.

Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants. All I use is
my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been
using a chainsaw. My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket,
and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does
or not.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 06:27:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Please re-read what I actually wrote:
Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have
bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It
looks dry to me.
The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.
The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it
comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not
suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.

Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants.

I suspect the difference is that I don't wipe the bar before storing
the chain saw. I leave all the oil, grease, and goo in place, which
inhibits rusting. If it's a choice between oil and rust, I'll take
the oil.

All I use is
my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been
using a chainsaw.

With your fairly modern saws and bars, you're probably ok.

>My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket,

<http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/homeowner-saws/ms170/>

There's some controversy over greasing sprocket tips. Stihl bars are
not intended to be greased and allegedly last longer. The claim is
that greasing the tip brings in more dirt, which causes more wear. The
higher speed motors rotate the sprocket fast enough to throw any type
of grease or oil from the sprocket. Still pump some of the chain oil
into the sprocket bearing for lubrication.

This discusses some of the issues involved:
<http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/who-greases-their-bar-tips.50815/>

All of my assorted saws are quite ancient and do not run at high
speeds. All of my bars are equally old and have grease holes. I
grease the sprockets.
<http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/slides/chain-saws.html>
I added 3 more gas saws and one electric since I took this picture:

and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does
or not.

Probably the same as the MS170. No grease hole.

Incidentally, you might find this spreadsheet useful:
<http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/Chain-saw-mix-03.xls>
It's a table and graph of gas/oil mix for 32;1, 40:1, and 50:1 mixes.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558