Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[Joerg]

Hello John,

Could it be that the meter was calibrated to compensate for the fact
that when it's hooked to a battery, it only supplies current when the
charger exceeds the battery's voltage, while on a lamp it would draw
current from zero on up?

No.

Then maybe the meter was calibrated so it would adjust the indicated
current according to the consumer price index. Now wait, with a build
date of 1965 that doesn't computer either...

--
SCNR, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Peter Dettmann]

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:27:46 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On 27 Sep 2006 17:16:37 -0700, "John O'Flaherty" <quiasmox@yahoo.com
wrote:


Could it be that the meter was calibrated to compensate for the fact
that when it's hooked to a battery, it only supplies current when the
charger exceeds the battery's voltage, while on a lamp it would draw
current from zero on up?


No.

John

Also comes to mind that if there is a magnetic pointer restraint this
is unusual, and perhaps the meter would (as usual) have bal;ance
weights to restore to zero, so perhaps it is calibrated for when the
meter face is vertical (panel mount style)? A moving iron movement
responds to RMS so waveform should not be a problem.

Peter Dettmann

 

[Jeff Wisnia]

Graham W wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Homer J Simpson wrote:


"Jeff Wisnia" <jwisnia@conversent.net> wrote in message
news:zLydnZVzrJEpLYfYnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@conversent.net...



I believe the ammmeter is what I used to know as a "moving iron"
type, and IIRC the restoring force was supplied by some kind of
permanant magnet field, not by a mechanical spring. Am I right about
that?


Nope. Still a spring.

http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h1011v4/css/h1011v4_76.htm

Moving iron vane - The moving iron vane meter operates on
the principle of magnetic repulsion between like poles. The
measured current flows through a field coil which induces a like
magnetic field into a fixed and moving vane causing the moving
vane to deflect a pointer in proportion to the current or
voltage applied to the coil.




I hear what you say about a spring, and it makes sense that there may be
one there. But it's interesting that the reference link you gave
mentioned "springs" when describing the first two meter types, but not
the moving iron one. Wonder why? Probably just an oversight.

Jeff (Who is NOT going to tear that old meter on the Eico 1050 apart to
find out.)


Hit the 'Back' link at the top of the page above and you'll see the
spring.

Got it, thanks!

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

 

[Jeff Wisnia]

Peter Dettmann wrote:

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:27:46 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:


On 27 Sep 2006 17:16:37 -0700, "John O'Flaherty" <quiasmox@yahoo.com
wrote:



Could it be that the meter was calibrated to compensate for the fact
that when it's hooked to a battery, it only supplies current when the
charger exceeds the battery's voltage, while on a lamp it would draw
current from zero on up?


No.

John


Also comes to mind that if there is a magnetic pointer restraint this
is unusual, and perhaps the meter would (as usual) have bal;ance
weights to restore to zero, so perhaps it is calibrated for when the
meter face is vertical (panel mount style)? A moving iron movement
responds to RMS so waveform should not be a problem.

Peter Dettmann

FWIW I just went down and tried an orientation test with the meter
reading 5 amps and the pointer stayed in the same position whichever way
I tipped the unit.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

 

[Robert Baer]

Ken wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:


Arcane question, and sort of long, but here goes....

Last night, young son was in the process of adding foglights to his
car and asked me for some wire to extend the harness. I wasn't sure
what the current draw would be so I grabbed one of the foglight
assemblies and connected it to the Eico 1050 battery charger/DC power
supply which has been part of my garage tool clutter for nearly 50 years:

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/eico1050.jpg

When I cranked the voltage up to 13, the bulb lit brightly and the
ammeter on the Eico read around 9 amps. That seemed sort of high to me
so I asked the kid, "How big a fuse is in the harness which came with
those lights?" he looked at it and told me it was a 15 amp fuse. 15
amps for TWO 9 amp bulbs? Obviously something was't right, so I got my
Simpson 260 and saw that the current drawn by that bulb was really a
bit less than 5 amps.

Since SWMBO was out getting some "retail therapy" I had some free
time, and taking the Eico into my workshop, I opened it up,
disconnected the leads to the ammeter and fed it with my bench supply.
That verified again that it was reading almost twice the DC current
passing through it.

By a couple of "cut and trys" I found that about 4 inches of 18 gage
solid copper wire shunting the meter made it read correctly enough for
"gummint work", so I soldered that wire in and closed the Eico back up.

I believe the ammmeter is what I used to know as a "moving iron" type,
and IIRC the restoring force was supplied by some kind of permanant
magnet field, not by a mechanical spring. Am I right about that?

I doubt that Eico installed a defective meter when they built the unit
around 1965 (The date marked on the meter.) and I'm guessing that the
meter's restoring magnet weakened over 50 years, increasing its
sensitivity to nearly double.

Anyone have any similar experience with those kind of meters, I'd
enjoy learning more, just for the shits and grins of it.

Thanks guys,

Jeff


Isn't there normally a shunt across the meter movement? If so, is
it accurate? If it had changed in value that could account for the
increased reading.
Cheap high DC current meters were almost always iron vane and never

had a shunt.

 

[Robert Baer]

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Ken wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:


Arcane question, and sort of long, but here goes....

Last night, young son was in the process of adding foglights to his
car and asked me for some wire to extend the harness. I wasn't sure
what the current draw would be so I grabbed one of the foglight
assemblies and connected it to the Eico 1050 battery charger/DC power
supply which has been part of my garage tool clutter for nearly 50
years:

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/eico1050.jpg

When I cranked the voltage up to 13, the bulb lit brightly and the
ammeter on the Eico read around 9 amps. That seemed sort of high to
me so I asked the kid, "How big a fuse is in the harness which came
with those lights?" he looked at it and told me it was a 15 amp fuse.
15 amps for TWO 9 amp bulbs? Obviously something was't right, so I
got my Simpson 260 and saw that the current drawn by that bulb was
really a bit less than 5 amps.

Since SWMBO was out getting some "retail therapy" I had some free
time, and taking the Eico into my workshop, I opened it up,
disconnected the leads to the ammeter and fed it with my bench
supply. That verified again that it was reading almost twice the DC
current passing through it.

By a couple of "cut and trys" I found that about 4 inches of 18 gage
solid copper wire shunting the meter made it read correctly enough
for "gummint work", so I soldered that wire in and closed the Eico
back up.

I believe the ammmeter is what I used to know as a "moving iron"
type, and IIRC the restoring force was supplied by some kind of
permanant magnet field, not by a mechanical spring. Am I right about
that?

I doubt that Eico installed a defective meter when they built the
unit around 1965 (The date marked on the meter.) and I'm guessing
that the meter's restoring magnet weakened over 50 years, increasing
its sensitivity to nearly double.

Anyone have any similar experience with those kind of meters, I'd
enjoy learning more, just for the shits and grins of it.

Thanks guys,

Jeff


Isn't there normally a shunt across the meter movement? If so, is
it accurate? If it had changed in value that could account for the
increased reading.



There was none across the outside, and the meter was crimped shut, so I
didn't bother looking inside.

But IIRC that kind of meter just used a few turns of heavy wire
connected across it's terminals to create a magnetic field which altered
the total dc magnetic field inside and made a piece of iron on the
pointer shaft change its position.

Jeff
Yep, that is the standard construction; i think a spring was used for

setting / resetting zero position.

 

[Lee]

bordella@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

I know very little about electronic hardware other than PC components.
I have an Uninterruptable Power Supply whose original batteries ran out
of juice after several years. This UPS, the Patriot Pro II 750, uses
two 12V, 8Ah sealed lead acid batteries.

The UPS has two leads -- one positive, one negative. Each goes to an
individual battery. The original pair of batteries were jumpered
together in series to complete the circuit.

Problem: I lost the original jumper cable. I've purchased two new
replacement batteries. I need a cable to jumper them together. I've
searched the web and this has proven harder than I thought. Maybe I'm
not using the right terms. Or maybe this is so trivial that people
fabricate their own.

The SLA batteries have F1 terminals. I'm assuming I simply need a short
cable with F1 connectors at each end. I'm not really comfortable
fabricating my own for this kind of application (involving batteries).

Someone with more knowledge than I tells me that the jumper for this
UPS did not have a fuse, it was just a simple cable.

Any advice? Is there somewhere I can simply buy a short jumper cable
with F1 connectors? Is there someone who can put one together for a few
bucks? It's frustrating that this UPS is sitting here with brand new
batteries and I'm stuck because of my own error in discarding the
original jumper cable.

thanks,
Aaron

You can get cables like this at any good

automotive/snowmobile/motorcycle/etc. parts place.
If you are in Canada, go to Canadian Tire.
Regards
Lee in Toronto

 

[Steven]

Homer J Simpson wrote:

" <manyrumours@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1159340912.217405.122620@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

Let's remind our erstwhile attacker that in the United States what one
is charged with and what ultimately results are often vastly differing
things. Police make charges based on their training, district attorneys
decide what to follow through on and lawyers prosecute or defend based
on those discoveries. Even then, one is not guilty of anything until
proven in court.

Unless you are Scott Peterson and then all bets are off.

We even have to sort through his lies.

 

[Eeyore]

Steven wrote:

This is America

No it isn't. It's Usenet.

Graham

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Eeyore wrote:

Steven wrote:

This is America

No it isn't. It's Usenet.

Graham

Oh, great. Now its ignorant US troll VS ignorant UK troll.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Homer J Simpson]

"Steven" <manyrumours@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1159414279.983426.160630@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Unless you are Scott Peterson and then all bets are off.

We even have to sort through his lies.

He lied about pussy. Who hasn't?

The MPD and many of the witnesses lied about facts relevant to the case and
not their sex lives. Which is worse?

 

[Paul E. Schoen]

"Jeff Wisnia" <jwisnia@conversent.net> wrote in message
news:GrKdnb4DuLawuIbYnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@conversent.net...

Peter Dettmann wrote:

[snip]


Also comes to mind that if there is a magnetic pointer restraint this
is unusual, and perhaps the meter would (as usual) have bal;ance
weights to restore to zero, so perhaps it is calibrated for when the
meter face is vertical (panel mount style)? A moving iron movement
responds to RMS so waveform should not be a problem.

Peter Dettmann

FWIW I just went down and tried an orientation test with the meter
reading 5 amps and the pointer stayed in the same position whichever way
I tipped the unit.

When I worked as a meter tech for EIL many years ago we calibrated iron
vane meters of various types. Most of them had a moveable metal piece that
could be adjusted to affect the calibration. Most of these meters were made
to be opened easily for repair and adjustment and scale changing, but some
(GE I think) had an aluminum band that was swaged on with a special tool to
seal the meter. All iron vane meters I worked on were for AC use, but they
might work on DC. I never tried. However, I think they relied on magnetic
induction which is an AC phenomenon, similar to a motor.

The really cheap meters were Shurite, and they used (I think) a permanent
magnet moving vane in a fixed coil. These were often DC meters used in
automotive and battery charger applications. The permanent magnet might
weaken with age, but I think that would make the meter read lower, rather
than high. If there were no magnetism, it would read zero. All meters I
worked on had springs (taut band types use the band as a spring). A weak
spring could cause a high reading.

The only meters I know to be true RMS are dynamometer types, which use a
moving coil as well as a fixed coil. When the coils are wired in series or
parallel, they read voltage or current. When the coils are separate, the
meter can be used as a wattmeter.

Of course, most such measurement is now done digitally, but it is
interesting and educational to understand the older technology. Also, many
of the lab grade meters were beautiful works of art, with varnished oak or
bakelite cases, and carefully drawn mirror scales to reduce parallax, and
to obtain accuracy to 1/4% or better.

Paul

 

[Meat Plow]

On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:51:06 +0000, Rich Grise Has Frothed:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:19:26 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:11:06 -0700, RST Engineering (jw) Has Frothed:

I'm interested in this thread, having built a 1050 back in the late
'50s. It too has been part of the garage clutter for fifty years or so.

However, I am NOT willing to wade through two or three pages of quote,
quotequote, quotequotequote to get to one or two lines of answer.

PLEASE, PEOPLE, LEARN HOW TO SNIP.

Use a news reader that can mute quoted text.

Screw you. Post right - don't make other people compensate for your own
shortcomings.

Show RFC where quoting is a shortcoming. It's up to the individual to skip
over or mute quoted content.

Thanks,
Rich

Go fuck yourself.


--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Juan Jimenez" <flybd5@prtc.net> wrote in message
news:451bec7e$0$19619$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...

Hi folks,

Does anyone have a calibration/maint manual for a JDR Instruments model
3500 o'scope? I bought it cheap for my son ($100), he is building his own
analog synth, and it works great, but the focus control no longer brings
the trace into focus when I turn it all the way to the right. I need to
adjust this but I don't have a manual.

Detailed instructions will do as well.

bd5 at
bd5 dot com

Thanks!

If it's not a problem with the tube itself, then likely one of the high
value resistors in the chain which divides down the PDA voltage to the right
level for the focus grid ( via the focus control ) will have gone high in
value. In the absence of a set of schematics for it, I would follow the
connections from either end of the focus control ( especially the clockwise
end which is probably the higher voltage end ) back to wherever they go, and
look for some big-ish high value resistors right there, and carefully check
their values. If you find one that has changed substantially in value, make
sure that you use a resistor with a high voltage specification to replace it
with ( many readily available resistors are only rated for operation up to a
couple of hundred volts )

Arfa

 

[Tim Auton]

Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:51:06 +0000, Rich Grise Has Frothed:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:19:26 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:11:06 -0700, RST Engineering (jw) Has Frothed:

I'm interested in this thread, having built a 1050 back in the late
'50s. It too has been part of the garage clutter for fifty years or so.

However, I am NOT willing to wade through two or three pages of quote,
quotequote, quotequotequote to get to one or two lines of answer.

PLEASE, PEOPLE, LEARN HOW TO SNIP.

Use a news reader that can mute quoted text.

Screw you. Post right - don't make other people compensate for your own
shortcomings.

Show RFC where quoting is a shortcoming. It's up to the individual to skip
over or mute quoted content.

*plonk*


Tim

 

[Homer J Simpson]

"Meat Plow" <meat@meatplow.local> wrote in message
newsan.2006.09.28.20.23.13.294000@nntp.sun-meatplow.local...

Show RFC where quoting is a shortcoming. It's up to the individual to skip
over or mute quoted content.

Consider the blind - who listen to Usenet. They have to wade through a
mountain of crap to hear one line - or sometimes none.

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <Z_ZSg.4671$N4.1899@clgrps12>,
Homer J Simpson <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Meat Plow" <meat@meatplow.local> wrote in message
newsan.2006.09.28.20.23.13.294000@nntp.sun-meatplow.local...

Show RFC where quoting is a shortcoming. It's up to the individual to skip
over or mute quoted content.

Consider the blind - who listen to Usenet. They have to wade through a
mountain of crap to hear one line - or sometimes none.

RFC 1855, "Netiquette Guidelines",

Section 3: One-to-many communication (mailing lists, netnews),

3.1 User guidelines

3.1.1 General Guidelines for mailing lists and NetNews

[bullet 10]: If you are sending a reply to a message or a
posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the
message, or include just enough text of the original to give a
context. This will make sure readers understand when they start
to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is
proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to
another, it is possible to see a response to a message before
seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not
include the entire original!

I take this as saying that quoting, when used in moderation to carry
forward the essential context of a thread, is Good, and that when used
to excess (quoting the entire original, or the whole thread), is Bad.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

 

[Juan Jimenez]

Sounds reasonable. Thanks!

juan

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:BwXSg.48505$WV2.11806@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

"Juan Jimenez" <flybd5@prtc.net> wrote in message
news:451bec7e$0$19619$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
Hi folks,

Does anyone have a calibration/maint manual for a JDR Instruments model
3500 o'scope? I bought it cheap for my son ($100), he is building his own
analog synth, and it works great, but the focus control no longer brings
the trace into focus when I turn it all the way to the right. I need to
adjust this but I don't have a manual.

Detailed instructions will do as well.

bd5 at
bd5 dot com

Thanks!



If it's not a problem with the tube itself, then likely one of the high
value resistors in the chain which divides down the PDA voltage to the
right level for the focus grid ( via the focus control ) will have gone
high in value. In the absence of a set of schematics for it, I would
follow the connections from either end of the focus control ( especially
the clockwise end which is probably the higher voltage end ) back to
wherever they go, and look for some big-ish high value resistors right
there, and carefully check their values. If you find one that has changed
substantially in value, make sure that you use a resistor with a high
voltage specification to replace it with ( many readily available
resistors are only rated for operation up to a couple of hundred volts )

Arfa

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Meat Plow]

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:53:00 +0000, Dave Platt Has Frothed:

In article <Z_ZSg.4671$N4.1899@clgrps12>, Homer J Simpson
nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Meat Plow" <meat@meatplow.local> wrote in message
newsan.2006.09.28.20.23.13.294000@nntp.sun-meatplow.local...

Show RFC where quoting is a shortcoming. It's up to the individual to
skip over or mute quoted content.

Consider the blind - who listen to Usenet. They have to wade through a
mountain of crap to hear one line - or sometimes none.

RFC 1855, "Netiquette Guidelines",

Section 3: One-to-many communication (mailing lists, netnews),

3.1 User guidelines

3.1.1 General Guidelines for mailing lists and NetNews

[bullet 10]: If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be
sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or
include just enough text of the original to give a context. This
will make sure readers understand when they start to read your
response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing
the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a
response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context
helps everyone. But do not include the entire original!

I take this as saying that quoting, when used in moderation to carry
forward the essential context of a thread, is Good, and that when used to
excess (quoting the entire original, or the whole thread), is Bad.

Right in moderation is the key.

--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[The Demon Prince of Absur]

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:30:31 +0100, Tim Auton did the cha-cha, and
screamed:

Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:51:06 +0000, Rich Grise Has Frothed:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:19:26 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:11:06 -0700, RST Engineering (jw) Has Frothed:

I'm interested in this thread, having built a 1050 back in the late
'50s. It too has been part of the garage clutter for fifty years or
so.

However, I am NOT willing to wade through two or three pages of
quote, quotequote, quotequotequote to get to one or two lines of
answer.

PLEASE, PEOPLE, LEARN HOW TO SNIP.

Use a news reader that can mute quoted text.

Screw you. Post right - don't make other people compensate for your own
shortcomings.

Show RFC where quoting is a shortcoming. It's up to the individual to
skip over or mute quoted content.

*plonk*

Give my regards to the Nestene Consciousness.

--
________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! TM#5; COOSN-029-06-71069
Cardinal Snarky of the Fannish Inquisition
http://www6.kingdomofloathing.com/login.php
http://www.runescape.com/
No one expects the Fannish Inquisition!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cabal_of_the_Holy_Pretzel/join
"Etymology:
Argumentum ad Septicus : argument to putrefaction. Derived from Septicum
Argumentum : putrefaction of argument.

"Septic \Sep"tic\, Septical \Sep"tic*al\
a. [L. septicus to make putrid: cf. F. septique.]
Having power to promote putrefaction. Of or relating to or
caused by putrefaction." -- Kadaitcha Man, indirectly to
Donald "Skeptic"/"Septic" Alford, in MID: <a3svh.djj.19.1@news.alt.net>

"I never fail to be amazing" -- Looney Maroon for September 2006 nominee
William Barwell's ego knows no bounds. MID:
12ggt3q3uti3t52@corp.supernews.com

"We are most nearly ourselves when we achieve the seriousness of the
child at play." -- Heraclitus

"And thats another mistake on your part. Your 'playing' games on usenet,
and I'm not playing...It has nothing to do with impressing you, it has
more to do with making sure you have the education you'll need to debate.
The debate is no fun for me if you are mentally incapable of it. I'm
giving you an opportunity to educate yourself. That's all." -- A trashy
former virus-writer turned Outer Filth doesn't know if he's playing or
working, in MID: <1159389579.179851.33970@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>