J
Jasen Betts
Guest
On 2006-03-23, mdhjwh@iprimus.com.au <mdhjwh@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
Bye.
Jasen
Is it available via nntp?
Bye.
Jasen
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P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Chris Jones"
** Making a task unnecessarily difficult for someone else is the act of
complete asshole.
Bing smug about it is even worse.
......... Phil
I just like to learn stuff.
** If you mean that, then why make it impossible for anyone to answer
you
?
I think you have managed ok.
** Making a task unnecessarily difficult for someone else is the act of
complete asshole.
Bing smug about it is even worse.
......... Phil
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Malcolm Moore"
** That does not make even the slightest sense.
A complete non sequitur.
** Many other ways for the same outcome to occur.
Class 1 items rely on the earth wire to prevent shock in case of internal
failures.
** One seriously compromises the safety of a class 2 item by connecting its
metal case to a class 1 item.
Same as "de-earthing" a class 1 item *seriously* compromises its safety in
the event of some internal failure.
Go figure out why class 2 was ever invented.
.......... Phil
As you say above, "Equipment makers are not liable
for what users may WRONGLY do.....", but regulators are always
interested in such things. They seem relaxed about the situation.
** SFA they can do about it.
Which is exactly why there is no prohibition on interconnecting
earthed and double insulated home entertainment equipment.
** That does not make even the slightest sense.
A complete non sequitur.
The issue is one of legal liability on the part of someone who elects to
earth a class 2 item.
As in my other post, the legal liability arises from miswiring a plug,
** Many other ways for the same outcome to occur.
Class 1 items rely on the earth wire to prevent shock in case of internal
failures.
not from interconecting different classes of equipment.
** One seriously compromises the safety of a class 2 item by connecting its
metal case to a class 1 item.
Same as "de-earthing" a class 1 item *seriously* compromises its safety in
the event of some internal failure.
Go figure out why class 2 was ever invented.
.......... Phil
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Chris Jones"
** It was a whole load of irrelevant shit.
** Only binding on industry and even then only in a few cases.
** Very bad idea.
** Until the internet arrived laws ( ie legislation) WAS difficult to
access .
The public tolerated it just fine for centuries.
Even now, only a tiny few( other than law students & lawyers) ever bother to
access the info.
Most of it is FAR to complicated and confusing to the novice.
......... Phil
Thanks, that was quite interesting.
** It was a whole load of irrelevant shit.
I wish that standards like these which have to all intents and purposes
become legally binding,
** Only binding on industry and even then only in a few cases.
were automatically placed in the public domain.
** Very bad idea.
Imagine if all laws were as difficult to access -
** Until the internet arrived laws ( ie legislation) WAS difficult to
access .
The public tolerated it just fine for centuries.
Even now, only a tiny few( other than law students & lawyers) ever bother to
access the info.
Most of it is FAR to complicated and confusing to the novice.
......... Phil
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Jasen Bleatts" = Kiwi anencephalic
** What an illiterate IDIOT you are - Jasen !!
The user in MY EXAMPLE connected the various, ground linked class 2
appliances in his audio system to the metalwork of a class 1 item by simply
*plugging the audio and leads in* - thereby connecting the previously non
earthed class 2 system to the " supply earth".
The defective wiring of a *single class 1 item* ( it does not matter a
HOOT how it got that way) then rendered an entire system live and LETHAL.
** Your raving mad opinion - not mine.
........ Phil
** Read the whole thread
you explained how connecting a class two appliance to a live conductor
could be dangerous,
** Find those words from me and post them.
} ** Imagine a hi-fi system with every item in it class 2 - so there is
no AC
} ground to the metalwork.
}
} Next, an item is added to the system, ie a nice old valve tuner just
bought
} from Ebay but with no AC plug.
}
} Next, the user inadvertently wires up the new plug wrongly with active
and
} earth reversed and makes all the connections.
}
} The hi-fi system will still work just as before ( but not the tuner) but
} with ALL the metalwork, connecting leads and even the loud speakers now
} LIVE !!!
}
} In countries with 240 volt AC power, this is a FATAL accident scenario
} !!!!
There you go "class two appliance connected to a live conductor"
(an incorrectly wired class one appliance) are you going to argue that
the connectors on it aren't live conductors?
** What an illiterate IDIOT you are - Jasen !!
The user in MY EXAMPLE connected the various, ground linked class 2
appliances in his audio system to the metalwork of a class 1 item by simply
*plugging the audio and leads in* - thereby connecting the previously non
earthed class 2 system to the " supply earth".
The defective wiring of a *single class 1 item* ( it does not matter a
HOOT how it got that way) then rendered an entire system live and LETHAL.
It also says the "Double Insulated - Do Not Earth " warning is
compulsory.
it must be wrong then..
** No.
In that case there's an awful lot of non-compliant equipment out there.
** Your raving mad opinion - not mine.
........ Phil
Guest
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/internet-slanging-match-ends-up-in-high-court/2006/03/23/1143083906475.html
Internet slanging match ends up in High Court
A political argument that erupted in a remote corner of cyberspace and
descended into vicious name-calling could lead to a spate of libel
actions by contributors to internet message boards.
The dark side of the blogosphere was revealed by a libel action brought
by Michael Keith-Smith, a former Conservative Party member who stood
for the United Kingdom Independence Party in Portsmouth North, on the
south coast of England, at the last election.
He said he was moved to sue after a woman with whom he was debating the
merits of military action in Iraq began a campaign of name-calling that
started by describing him as "lard brain" and culminated in labelling
him a "Nazi", a "racist bigot" and a "nonce".
Judge Alistair MacDuff in the High Court ordered Tracy Williams, a
college lecturer from Oldham, in north-west England, to pay Ł10,000
($24,000) in damages, plus Mr Keith-Smith's Ł7200 costs, and told
never to repeat the allegations.
The case is one of the first of its kind between two private
individuals to go to court, said lawyers. It highlighted issues that
would become more prominent as internet use continued to grow and
blogging, social networking and community sites became yet more
popular, they said.
Mr Keith-Smith said he took action after a debate about the Iraq war in
2003 on a Yahoo! message board with about 100 members turned ugly.
"She was very pro-[US President George] Bush. Initially, she called me
lard brain and I wasn't particularly concerned about that. Then she
called me a Nazi," he said.
He has also taken action against a second poster, he said, with whom he
claimed to have settled for a sum "in the region of Ł30,000".
"They started saying I was on a sex offenders' list and that people
shouldn't let me near their children," said Mr Keith-Smith, who is also
chairman of the Conservative Democratic Alliance, which bills itself as
"the leading voice of the radical Tory right".
Legal experts said the case should be taken as a warning to the
millions of people debating contentious issues on message boards, in
chatrooms and on their own blogs.
The Guardian
Internet slanging match ends up in High Court
A political argument that erupted in a remote corner of cyberspace and
descended into vicious name-calling could lead to a spate of libel
actions by contributors to internet message boards.
The dark side of the blogosphere was revealed by a libel action brought
by Michael Keith-Smith, a former Conservative Party member who stood
for the United Kingdom Independence Party in Portsmouth North, on the
south coast of England, at the last election.
He said he was moved to sue after a woman with whom he was debating the
merits of military action in Iraq began a campaign of name-calling that
started by describing him as "lard brain" and culminated in labelling
him a "Nazi", a "racist bigot" and a "nonce".
Judge Alistair MacDuff in the High Court ordered Tracy Williams, a
college lecturer from Oldham, in north-west England, to pay Ł10,000
($24,000) in damages, plus Mr Keith-Smith's Ł7200 costs, and told
never to repeat the allegations.
The case is one of the first of its kind between two private
individuals to go to court, said lawyers. It highlighted issues that
would become more prominent as internet use continued to grow and
blogging, social networking and community sites became yet more
popular, they said.
Mr Keith-Smith said he took action after a debate about the Iraq war in
2003 on a Yahoo! message board with about 100 members turned ugly.
"She was very pro-[US President George] Bush. Initially, she called me
lard brain and I wasn't particularly concerned about that. Then she
called me a Nazi," he said.
He has also taken action against a second poster, he said, with whom he
claimed to have settled for a sum "in the region of Ł30,000".
"They started saying I was on a sex offenders' list and that people
shouldn't let me near their children," said Mr Keith-Smith, who is also
chairman of the Conservative Democratic Alliance, which bills itself as
"the leading voice of the radical Tory right".
Legal experts said the case should be taken as a warning to the
millions of people debating contentious issues on message boards, in
chatrooms and on their own blogs.
The Guardian
T
The Real Andy
Guest
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:11:05 -0000, Jasen Betts <jasen@free.net.nz>
wrote:
mains earth?
wrote:
Read what i stated.On 2006-03-24, The Real Andy <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:23:25 GMT, GB <g.b@sonicresearch.mailme.org
wrote:
Jasen Betts <jasen@free.net.nz> wrote in
news:7df9.44228041.e78e8@clunker.homenet:
what's the deal with laplink cables ?
If the connector shells at each end are connected together, they
can connect the frame earth of the two devices. Not always a good
thing.
But, if the device is double insulated, then wont the exposed frames
be doubly isolated from the mains earth? IS this not why you get the
tingle? the whole frame is floating about mains earth because it is
not connected to mains earth.
To be honest, I hadn't considered the possibility that the serial port might
be isolated from the circuitry inside the laptop.
SO are you suggesting that your laptop connects the serial port tothis one isn't.
mains earth?
Bye.
Jasen
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"The Real Andy"
" Jasen Bleatts"
** Watch out - Andy.
Jasen thinks a glass of sheep dip is a aphrodisiac.
....... Phil
" Jasen Bleatts"
Read what i stated.
SO are you suggesting that your laptop connects the serial port to
mains earth?
** Watch out - Andy.
Jasen thinks a glass of sheep dip is a aphrodisiac.
....... Phil
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Malcolm Moore"
Chris Jones
** LOL
Same way sheep agree !!
** AS/NZS 3000 = Electrical installations (known as the Australian/New
Zealand Wiring Rules)
AS/NZS 3760 = In-service safety inspection and testing of electrical
equipment.
A complete fool ( like this Malcolm cretin for example) can read the above
cover to cover as many times as he likes and still wind up not having a
DAMN CLUE about real world electrical safety.
Baaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.....
......... Phil
Chris Jones
I wish that standards like these which have to all intents and purposes
become legally binding, were automatically placed in the public domain.
Imagine if all laws were as difficult to access - the public would not
tolerate that.
I agree.
** LOL
Same way sheep agree !!
An advantage of Electrical Registration in NZ is that the Electrical
Workers Registration Board supply free of charge paper copies of the
Electricity Regulations, AS/NZS 3000, AS/NZS 3760, and pdfs on a cd of
9 others to registered workers.
** AS/NZS 3000 = Electrical installations (known as the Australian/New
Zealand Wiring Rules)
AS/NZS 3760 = In-service safety inspection and testing of electrical
equipment.
A complete fool ( like this Malcolm cretin for example) can read the above
cover to cover as many times as he likes and still wind up not having a
DAMN CLUE about real world electrical safety.
Baaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.....
......... Phil
D
David, not to be confused
Guest
"The Real Andy" <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote in message
news:09af22h0fem6crkjhgepoc9tg7p5dppp3h@4ax.com...
it is common to find that many (and I mean a lot) do not
meet essential safety requirements. The inspectors have
litle or no idea about such equipment unless they have a
lab report in hand. For instance the NSW DFT has a zero
budget allocation for testing such equipment to see if it
is safe. I wish I was joking when I said they won't do
anything unless someone is injured or killed, or unless
a third party (competitor) funds the initial compliance
checking activity. The legislation is there, but no money
to proactively enforce it.
you go to. Some safety tests can be done with a multimeter
but it is unlikely that a proper EMC test could be done
without the proper equipment. Hence the cost
differential for simple products.
news:09af22h0fem6crkjhgepoc9tg7p5dppp3h@4ax.com...
With many items fitting into the non-decalared categoriesthat will never face the public, but the device in question I can
guarantee that a significant amount of QLD/VIC public have been
exposed too. Fortunately the 'Approved product' was fixed before
shipping.
it is common to find that many (and I mean a lot) do not
meet essential safety requirements. The inspectors have
litle or no idea about such equipment unless they have a
lab report in hand. For instance the NSW DFT has a zero
budget allocation for testing such equipment to see if it
is safe. I wish I was joking when I said they won't do
anything unless someone is injured or killed, or unless
a third party (competitor) funds the initial compliance
checking activity. The legislation is there, but no money
to proactively enforce it.
Depends on the device, what has to be done and whoI find it obscure that EMC compliance is more difficult and expensive
than electrical compliance. Go figure..
you go to. Some safety tests can be done with a multimeter
but it is unlikely that a proper EMC test could be done
without the proper equipment. Hence the cost
differential for simple products.