The Truth about Corona Virus Situation and what every person

[Michael Terrell]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 3:43:10 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 10:09:07 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

Did you see Trump making a big deal of invoking the Defense Production
Act? It allows the feds to direct companies output to where they need
it to go, to allocate, ration, take control of the whole supply chain
for a product to remove roadblocks, to spin up other companies to
build critical products, etc. It's how Ford went from building cars
to building bombers. Trump should have done it weeks ago, but it's
a very good thing, right? A few hours later he tweeted that he only
invoked it in case it's needed to combat the Chinese virus later in
a worst case scenario and hopefully that won't be necessary.

If that is not the very definition of an incompetent moron, IDK
what is.

It worked really well when Obama invoked it. Oh, wait! he did nothing for the first six months of the SARS outbreak.

During the SARS outbreak he was an Illinois state senator. What did you expect him to do???

I have never expected him to do anything but lie, steal and deny.

I didn't remember the right name. It was the Swine Flu, and he was in no hurry about it. He was a half ass president in 2009.


<https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/03/01/in-april-2009-h1n1-became-a-pandemic-six-months-later-after-1000-u.s.-deaths-obama-declared-it-a-public-health-emergency>

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 12:10:27 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 11:36:44 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 11:23:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:18:52 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 14:52, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 13:46:30 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 00:19, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 15:56:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 12:40:07 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Looks like chloroquine plus azithromycin knocks the Wu flu dead.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf
Hope it pans out on a large scale!

Me too, but there might be a political problem:

Why Hasn’t Tony Fauci Been at the Coronavirus Press Conferences?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/tony-fauci-at-coronavirus-press-conferences.html
Quoting...

One person who has expressed a more skeptical view of chloroquine is
task force member and immunologist Anthony Fauci, the veteran face of
the country’s response to disease outbreaks. But Fauci has not
appeared at a press conference since Tuesday, when Trump said he had
become a major television star.

Fauci for the past two days had been saying that chloroquine is not a
miracle cure and that we still need to determine its safety.

Speaking to Laura Ingraham on Fox News on Tuesday, Fauci said, "We
have to be careful, Laura, that we don’t assume something works based
on an anecdotal report that’s not controlled. And I refer specifically
to hydroxychloroquine. There’s a lot of buzz out there on the internet
on the social media about that."

On Wednesday, he reiterated this message in an interview with CNN’s
Chris Cuomo, saying he supported large-scale clinical trials but was
against "just throwing the drug out there, which is not a good idea."

We don't have enough people really ill from C19 to have large-scale
clinical trials. We already know the drug is safe, so it's unlikely to
do any harm. Get a dozen sick people to volunteer and see what
happens.

Some adventurous doctors should do that now. It's available and legal
to prescribe.


It is conceivable that you are smart at electronics, but you really
haven't the faintest clue about anything related to this virus, medical
procedures, drugs, testing, etc.

You, like a lot of people here, switch to insults when they can't make
sense.

I, and several others (especially Rick C) have made a lot of sense.
Your mind-numbing determined ignorance is impenetrable, however - it's
not worth the effort trying to get through that thick skull.

Google about double-blind testing and drug testing. If you are having
trouble, find a ten year old to help you.

More insults, more refusal to discuss possibilities. I suspect you
design electronics by copying published circuits, if you design at
all.



If you were dying from a C19 infection, and were offered these drugs
now, before proper clinical trials were published and meta-analyzed,
would you take them?


Would I stand by my principles about what is good for the thousands and
millions coming after me, or would I desperately cling to any straw I
could find? I'd like to say I'd volunteer to be part of a trial, rather
than demanding the drugs, even though at least half the people on the
trial will get placebos. I can't tell you if I'd be brave enough for
that, however - probably not.

I'd absolutely take them. If it does help sick people, it will save
lives. Now. Wouldn't that be good for "the thousands and
millions" ?

OK, I expect another round of content-free insults.


And that is /exactly/ why these decisions must be made by medical
authorities - with no influence from the patients, their relatives,
meddling ignorant politicians, or the doctors and medical staff treating
the patients who never get to know who gets the real drugs and who gets
the placebos. You need a cold, clinical, bureaucratic authority to say
"We will test these 100 patients with a double-blind test. 50 will
receive the drug. 50 will receive a placebo. If the drug works, some
of these 50 placebo patients will die even though the drug could have
saved them. This is a sacrifice humanity must make to gain the
knowledge to save thousands or millions afterwards".


Why use a placebo? We could give a cluster of sick patients the drugs
now and compare their outcome to other clusters who don't get them.
See how many die.

Or give another cluster some sugar pills if you think that will help.
But do it NOW.


It is being done now here and it has already been done for months abroad.
The first Covid patient here was given Remdesivir, which is not even
approved. I pretty much agree with you on this, especially with
drugs like chloroquine which are already approved for other uses.
The govt needs to give doctors more freedom to use them, in their
own judgment and to not have to worry about being sued because it's
off label.

That's completely wrong. You never give a drug without consent. If they have consent there is no further protection needed.

BS. Obviously you don't watch late night TV with the ambulance
chasing lawyers. One law suit after another because patients were given
a drug and there were consequences.

Although... I recall a case where a doctor gave Betadine to an infant orally using a stomach tube. The baby died and after the fact the medical community decided it was a lame move and punished the doctor, I don't recall the details. So yeah, if you do something pretty dumb you will still be sanctioned.

Well, there you go, as if that's the only case where doctors are sued.

At the same time we are doing carefully controlled blind studies.
It's not like we're talking about a possible treatment for acne,
so far the death rate for this among 95K closed cases worldwide
is 10%.

We should hear soon how other studies have panned out.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 11:56:52 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 10:17:59 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 11:06:16 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 9:42:37 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

I told you it was growing exponentially over a month ago when
you said it was being controlled.

A month ago was the literal beginning of CV19 showing up in the US. There were 15 cases reported for six days in a row and if I recall some of those were people brought back from a cruise ship.

Are you just like Trump? At the time I told you that it was
growing, out of control, it was still in China.

Yes, exactly. It's not growing exponentially in China.


So you were able to discern infections across the country that no one else could see? Why don't you hire yourself out as a walking CV19 test kit?

It was spreading around the world through travelers, but I had hopes that our government was actually not too incompetent to have test kits available and would test everyone who might have the disease. I was wrong about that.

It's naive to think that ever would have been able to contain it.

And yet China and a few other countries have done just that.


We didn't test anyone who we didn't think had exposure. So there were people who had the disease without symptoms that got in and started community spreading. There was zero evidence of that in the data at that time.

No shit Sherlock, but it was clear that it was out of control
in China and spreading.

Yes, in China where it is now contained. You didn't predict that.

Who cares, I got the big part right, that it was growing, out of control
and would not be contained. I told you that the Chinese are a bunch
of liars too, you denied that. So, I suppose you believe the Chinese,
that the virus came from the US military?

Even the CDC's data referring back to date of infection doesn't show the disease growing in the US until about that time which is based on information gathered up to 14 days after infection.

I guess you are prescient? Doesn't matter. I didn't say it wasn't here and spreading. I may have said the numbers didn't indicate it though which they didn't at the time.


You said China had it under control, it was being eliminated.
Sounds like what Trump thought too.

And China does have it under control. In the province where it started there have been no new cases for two days now. The number of infected in China is dropping and is now about 1/10th the peak level.

That's true, if China is telling the truth. I hope they are but they
are habitual liars. Now they are trying to blame the virus on the
US military. Are they telling the truth about that? I would agree
that China has definitely reversed the course of it, not sure that
I believe the very low numbers, but it's certainly not 3000 new cases
a day that it once was.

I hope we can get it under control in the same way.

Too late for that. We have chosen not to try. That decision was made
by Trump, Cuomo and Gov Inslee in WA. Trump left any quarantine up to
the states and those too libs refused to act when they could have
greatly impacted the spread. Cuomo is especially incompetent, he
established a "containment zone" around the Jewish temple in Westchester.
That meant no large gatherings. BFD. Meanwhile infected people got
on the 7:05 each morning and took it right into NYC. They spread it
into North Jersey. That's not the China model.

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 11:48:54 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 10:10:56 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

You just can't stand the truth. I was right.

Ok, you were right. So what?

Years ago someone predicted the economic collapse we know as the Great Recession. I was talking about it with a friend and he pointed out that you could find someone predicting it in virtually every year. So no matter which year it occurred there would have been someone who was "right" about it.

That's a good one! Compare some lame prediction of something happening
someday, to me pointing out to you that Covid was expanding and out of
control in January.

You made statements based on no real information otherwise known as guesses. Congratulations. Your guesses were right. No one ever said you were wrong. They only said you were basing your opinion on no facts.

And that's a lie. I was looking at what happened in China at the time
and so were you. My conclusion was with tens of thousands of cases
and it expanding in China, it was going to spread to the world. It did.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 6:25:53 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

Today he was asked about the offer from cruise ship companies to supply
their ships. He said, we may need to do that later. WTF? For them
to be of use they needed to start deploying yesterday. Trump is always
too little too late.

I can't argue with that. Nearly a week has gone by since I realized fully what the exponential growth of this disease implies in terms of the number of infected and the impact on hospitals. I'm amazed that the rest of the people in this country haven't figured it out. We are headed for the iceberg and we've just started to turn the wheel.

I saw a video about nuclear sub safety. In a training exercise they simulated a pipe rupture which sailors had to fix. They weren't getting it. The trainer was yelling at the officer in the simulation that if those guys weren't getting the job done, the sub was going to sink. He needed to put others on the job who WOULD get it done!

Too bad we can't do that with the present administration. Replace them I mean, not dunk them in 1,000,000 gal of water under pressure.

--

Rick C.

-+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 3:43:10 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 10:09:07 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

Did you see Trump making a big deal of invoking the Defense Production
Act? It allows the feds to direct companies output to where they need
it to go, to allocate, ration, take control of the whole supply chain
for a product to remove roadblocks, to spin up other companies to
build critical products, etc. It's how Ford went from building cars
to building bombers. Trump should have done it weeks ago, but it's
a very good thing, right? A few hours later he tweeted that he only
invoked it in case it's needed to combat the Chinese virus later in
a worst case scenario and hopefully that won't be necessary.

If that is not the very definition of an incompetent moron, IDK
what is.

It worked really well when Obama invoked it. Oh, wait! he did nothing for the first six months of the SARS outbreak.

We never had a SARS case in the US, did we? Nor was SARS showing the
easy transmission that Covid does. Trump still hasn't done anything
with the Defense Production Act. Instead he keeps saying all the states
should scramble for the critical supplies they need and the federal govt
will do the same. Obviously the concept of finding the total supply
quantities and the feds doing allocation to where it's needed is totally
foreign to him. Instead the CEO and VP of sales at these companies are
deciding how many ventilators to sent to NY and how many to Iowa.
Today he was asked about the offer from cruise ship companies to supply
their ships. He said, we may need to do that later. WTF? For them
to be of use they needed to start deploying yesterday. Trump is always
too little too late.

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 6:06:30 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 11:48:54 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 10:10:56 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

You just can't stand the truth. I was right.

Ok, you were right. So what?

Years ago someone predicted the economic collapse we know as the Great Recession. I was talking about it with a friend and he pointed out that you could find someone predicting it in virtually every year. So no matter which year it occurred there would have been someone who was "right" about it.

That's a good one! Compare some lame prediction of something happening
someday, to me pointing out to you that Covid was expanding and out of
control in January.

Yup, because you didn't have any information we all had and the info at that time didn't really indicate an exponential growth. It all depended on the various country's responses which have mostly turned out to be inadequate..

You made statements based on no real information otherwise known as guesses. Congratulations. Your guesses were right. No one ever said you were wrong. They only said you were basing your opinion on no facts.


And that's a lie. I was looking at what happened in China at the time
and so were you. My conclusion was with tens of thousands of cases
and it expanding in China, it was going to spread to the world. It did.

I don't know anyone who said it wasn't spreading to "the world". The growth in China had been growing exponentially, but they had just started instituting their lock down which was ultimately successful. It was the various countries that had the opportunity to see what happened in China but still fail to adequately respond that resulting in the virus spreading around the globe.

That failure had not actually happened yet, so there was no way for the widespread exponential growth to be forecast other than by guessing.

It seems every country went through the same thought process... we only have a handful of cases and we know who they are... We have more cases, but we are restricting their movements... We have still more cases but social distancing will limit the growth... ect.

There has not been enough will power in other countries to act in the same manner as the Chinese which is the only way to stop this disease. Here in Virginia they are still letting restaurants and bars stay open.

Did you foresee that? You never mentioned it.

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 6:18:28 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 12:10:27 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 11:36:44 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

It is being done now here and it has already been done for months abroad.
The first Covid patient here was given Remdesivir, which is not even
approved. I pretty much agree with you on this, especially with
drugs like chloroquine which are already approved for other uses.
The govt needs to give doctors more freedom to use them, in their
own judgment and to not have to worry about being sued because it's
off label.

That's completely wrong. You never give a drug without consent. If they have consent there is no further protection needed.

BS. Obviously you don't watch late night TV with the ambulance
chasing lawyers. One law suit after another because patients were given
a drug and there were consequences.

Anyone can be sued for malpractice. That is not the same thing as accepting the risk of off label treatment. If you sign the papers and the doctor gives you a different drug or a wrong dosage, that's actionable. If the doctor does what he is supposed to do and does nothing wrong, that's not actionable and those cases are typical won by the doctor.

The stuff you hear about on late night TV is usually about a company that produces a defective device or drug and knew or should have known. That is also not the same thing as off label use of a drug.

BTW, do you ever trim a quote?

--

Rick C.

--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 5:01:41 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 3:43:10 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 10:09:07 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

Did you see Trump making a big deal of invoking the Defense Production
Act? It allows the feds to direct companies output to where they need
it to go, to allocate, ration, take control of the whole supply chain
for a product to remove roadblocks, to spin up other companies to
build critical products, etc. It's how Ford went from building cars
to building bombers. Trump should have done it weeks ago, but it's
a very good thing, right? A few hours later he tweeted that he only
invoked it in case it's needed to combat the Chinese virus later in
a worst case scenario and hopefully that won't be necessary.

If that is not the very definition of an incompetent moron, IDK
what is.

It worked really well when Obama invoked it. Oh, wait! he did nothing for the first six months of the SARS outbreak.

During the SARS outbreak he was an Illinois state senator. What did you expect him to do???


I have never expected him to do anything but lie, steal and deny.

I didn't remember the right name. It was the Swine Flu, and he was in no hurry about it. He was a half ass president in 2009.


https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/03/01/in-april-2009-h1n1-became-a-pandemic-six-months-later-after-1000-u.s.-deaths-obama-declared-it-a-public-health-emergency

What was the hospitalization and death rate of swine flu compared to Covid?
Hint, about 17K people died here from it and it never caused the horrific
death rates we are seeing in other countries from Covid either.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 6:26:16 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 6:18:28 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 12:10:27 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 11:36:44 AM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

It is being done now here and it has already been done for months abroad.
The first Covid patient here was given Remdesivir, which is not even
approved. I pretty much agree with you on this, especially with
drugs like chloroquine which are already approved for other uses.
The govt needs to give doctors more freedom to use them, in their
own judgment and to not have to worry about being sued because it's
off label.

That's completely wrong. You never give a drug without consent. If they have consent there is no further protection needed.

BS. Obviously you don't watch late night TV with the ambulance
chasing lawyers. One law suit after another because patients were given
a drug and there were consequences.

Anyone can be sued for malpractice. That is not the same thing as accepting the risk of off label treatment. If you sign the papers and the doctor gives you a different drug or a wrong dosage, that's actionable. If the doctor does what he is supposed to do and does nothing wrong, that's not actionable and those cases are typical won by the doctor.

Emphasis on typically won. And what's the cost of the trial? What does
that do to a doctor's insurance rates?

The stuff you hear about on late night TV is usually about a company that produces a defective device or drug and knew or should have known. That is also not the same thing as off label use of a drug.

That's OK, the shyster lawyers will make a case anyhow. The overwhelming
data shows that glyphosate doesn't cause cancer, but juries are awarding
hundreds of millions to some fool janitor that claims he was regularly
soaked in it and that's what caused his lymphoma, even though 75K people
a year get it for unknown reasons. How stupid do you have to be to be
a janitor at a school and wind up soaking yourself in herbicide of any kind?
I've applied it for decades, never got soaked.

BTW, do you ever trim a quote?

BTW, does that Tesla spaming ever work?

--

Rick C.

--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 8:04:42 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:20:06 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 15:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:06:51 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 14:22, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 13:32:11 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 02:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

News:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fda-experimental-drugs-coronavirus

Wow, if it works DT will be a hero.


That sad thing is, there will be a large number of naĂŻve and ignorant
Americans who will think he /is/ a hero here. All he has done is got
things completely wrong, contradicting his expert staff at every step
(including here), and making random decisions that he thinks will make
the stock market go up. But like a stopped clock, he occasionally gets
something right by luck - and his drolling zombie followers think he is
a genius for his few successes, while all his uncountable mistakes are
just a Democrat / media conspiracy.

Obviously I hope the drugs here work - but even if they do, Trump is
doing more harm than good as he screws up American doctors' ability to
test them properly.

The drugs are available and known to be safe. If some people are
dying, it may save lives to use them now. If it works, use them
widely. If "testing properly" means years of careful clinical trials
and peer-reviewed papers, delay years until the virus has burned out,
people will die. What DT says is his sensible: go for it now and see
what happens.

No doubt some people will, and we will see if these drugs help.

Let me repeat - you haven't a clue how drug testing works.
Regurgitating shite from Trump does nothing but prove your ignorance and
naĂŻvety.

Let me repeat: people who don't want to consider ideas often resort to
insults.


That is true. And perhaps, since you seem to have failed to grasp basic
logic, you think that implies I don't want to consider ideas. This is,
of course, false.

And people who have repeatedly explained things in detail, may also
resort to hard truths. I am not insulting you, I am stating obvious
truths. You have rejected logic, explanations, information, references
to experts, and appeals to your humanity (this is all from many people
here).

What's humane about letting sick old people die, when we have drugs
that could help and are known to be safe?

It's not just old people, 40% of serious cases are people 20 to 64.
Men are twice as likely to die as women. I agree that the decision
to try off label use of approved drugs should be up to the patient
and their doctor. It's already happening. We're headed towards
an epic disaster, where hospitals will soon have to triage patients
and just let some die because we don't have ICU beds and ventilators.
It's not 2019 anymore. Taking some small risk is more than justified
and it should be up to the patient.

On the other hand, Trump should stop using the words game changer and
giving people false hope.

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:20:06 +0100, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 15:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:06:51 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 14:22, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 13:32:11 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 02:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

News:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fda-experimental-drugs-coronavirus

Wow, if it works DT will be a hero.


That sad thing is, there will be a large number of naďve and ignorant
Americans who will think he /is/ a hero here. All he has done is got
things completely wrong, contradicting his expert staff at every step
(including here), and making random decisions that he thinks will make
the stock market go up. But like a stopped clock, he occasionally gets
something right by luck - and his drolling zombie followers think he is
a genius for his few successes, while all his uncountable mistakes are
just a Democrat / media conspiracy.

Obviously I hope the drugs here work - but even if they do, Trump is
doing more harm than good as he screws up American doctors' ability to
test them properly.

The drugs are available and known to be safe. If some people are
dying, it may save lives to use them now. If it works, use them
widely. If "testing properly" means years of careful clinical trials
and peer-reviewed papers, delay years until the virus has burned out,
people will die. What DT says is his sensible: go for it now and see
what happens.

No doubt some people will, and we will see if these drugs help.

Let me repeat - you haven't a clue how drug testing works.
Regurgitating shite from Trump does nothing but prove your ignorance and
naďvety.

Let me repeat: people who don't want to consider ideas often resort to
insults.


That is true. And perhaps, since you seem to have failed to grasp basic
logic, you think that implies I don't want to consider ideas. This is,
of course, false.

And people who have repeatedly explained things in detail, may also
resort to hard truths. I am not insulting you, I am stating obvious
truths. You have rejected logic, explanations, information, references
to experts, and appeals to your humanity (this is all from many people
here).

What's humane about letting sick old people die, when we have drugs
that could help and are known to be safe?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 1:13:45 AM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 10:45:56 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 12:42:37 PM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 9:16:40 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 8:29:09 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-03-19 20:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 19:43:03 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-03-19 19:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 18:35:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-03-19 16:56, Winfield Hill wrote:
Rick C wrote...

Phil Hobbs wrote:

snip

I told you it was growing exponentially over a month ago when
you said it was being controlled.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Over a month ago would have been before the 20th February 2020.

If you look at the logarithmic version of the US case number graph it hits the axis on the 22nd February. In reality there were 35 cases by that date, so you didn't have enough numbers to justify that assertion rationally.

Sadly, you don't think clearly enough for your ravings to be taken as seriously as you'd like.

Oh, and I was not talking about the US when I told you it
was growing exponentially either, stupid, I was talking
about the world, which at that point was primarily China.

Except that it wasn't.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/

The Chinese number of new cases per day peaked on he 4th February at 3884.

The 12th February spike to 14108 cases was due to a reclassification of existing cases - there were only about 1500 actual new cases reported on that day.

You remain a half-wit.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 8:19:55 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 8:04:42 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:20:06 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 15:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:06:51 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 14:22, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 13:32:11 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 02:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

News:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fda-experimental-drugs-coronavirus

Wow, if it works DT will be a hero.


That sad thing is, there will be a large number of naĂŻve and ignorant
Americans who will think he /is/ a hero here. All he has done is got
things completely wrong, contradicting his expert staff at every step
(including here), and making random decisions that he thinks will make
the stock market go up. But like a stopped clock, he occasionally gets
something right by luck - and his drolling zombie followers think he is
a genius for his few successes, while all his uncountable mistakes are
just a Democrat / media conspiracy.

Obviously I hope the drugs here work - but even if they do, Trump is
doing more harm than good as he screws up American doctors' ability to
test them properly.

The drugs are available and known to be safe. If some people are
dying, it may save lives to use them now. If it works, use them
widely. If "testing properly" means years of careful clinical trials
and peer-reviewed papers, delay years until the virus has burned out,
people will die. What DT says is his sensible: go for it now and see
what happens.

No doubt some people will, and we will see if these drugs help.

Let me repeat - you haven't a clue how drug testing works.
Regurgitating shite from Trump does nothing but prove your ignorance and
naĂŻvety.

Let me repeat: people who don't want to consider ideas often resort to
insults.


That is true. And perhaps, since you seem to have failed to grasp basic
logic, you think that implies I don't want to consider ideas. This is,
of course, false.

And people who have repeatedly explained things in detail, may also
resort to hard truths. I am not insulting you, I am stating obvious
truths. You have rejected logic, explanations, information, references
to experts, and appeals to your humanity (this is all from many people
here).

What's humane about letting sick old people die, when we have drugs
that could help and are known to be safe?



It's not just old people, 40% of serious cases are people 20 to 64.
Men are twice as likely to die as women. I agree that the decision
to try off label use of approved drugs should be up to the patient
and their doctor. It's already happening. We're headed towards
an epic disaster, where hospitals will soon have to triage patients
and just let some die because we don't have ICU beds and ventilators.
It's not 2019 anymore. Taking some small risk is more than justified
and it should be up to the patient.

We *are* headed for an epic disaster if we continue to not recognize the fact. The Governor of VA still has not ordered restaurants to be closed, rather limiting to 10 patrons at a time! WTF!??? No restaurant can stay in business with only 10 customers at a time unless they are a carry out place.

Next door in MD the restaurants have curbside pickup for orders.

Even this is a luxury compared to Wuhan where you are only allowed outside to grocery shop and fully enforced.

We are going to kid ourselves into a disaster by not taking this seriously enough and not taking appropriate action.

Oh, well. Everyone I know is hunkering down. We won't be the ones to suffer the impact if we don't get sick. It will be the coronavirus equivalents of the hurricane party victims who get sick from this disease and pay the price.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 1:17:59 AM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 11:06:16 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 9:42:37 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 9:16:40 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 8:29:09 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-03-19 20:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 19:43:03 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-03-19 19:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 18:35:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-03-19 16:56, Winfield Hill wrote:
Rick C wrote...

Phil Hobbs wrote:

<snip>

I told you it was growing exponentially over a month ago when
you said it was being controlled.

At that point the number of new cases being reported every day from China was dropping - not rising - and the Chinese had clearly got their epidemic under control.

A month ago was the literal beginning of CV19 showing up in the US. There were 15 cases reported for six days in a row and if I recall some of those were people brought back from a cruise ship.

Are you just like Trump? At the time I told you that it was
growing, out of control, it was still in China.

Except that while the numbers in China were still going up, the number new cases per day were dropping, and were about half what they'd been at the peak on the 4th February 2020. They were clearly getting their outbreak under control.

So you were able to discern infections across the country that no one else could see? Why don't you hire yourself out as a walking CV19 test kit?

It was spreading around the world through travelers, but I had hopes that our government was actually not too incompetent to have test kits available and would test everyone who might have the disease. I was wrong about that.

It's naive to think that we ever would have been able to contain it.

Being pessimistic about the likely performance of the US health system is realistic, but China has managed to contain the epidemic, and Tiawan, Hong Kong and Singapore did rather better - they'd been forewarned by the Chinese and had been exposed to SARS a few year earlier.

We didn't test anyone who we didn't think had exposure. So there were people who had the disease without symptoms that got in and started community spreading. There was zero evidence of that in the data at that time.

No shit Sherlock, but it was clear that it was out of control
in China and spreading.

It wasn't out of control in China at that time - it was still spreading, rather more slowly than it had been at the peak, and it was likely that another month of lock-down would stop it spreading at all, as has now happened in China. At the time I was worried about what might be going on outside of Hubei Province, but it seems that the Chinses authorities were no less anxious.

Even the CDC's data referring back to date of infection doesn't show the disease growing in the US until about that time which is based on information gathered up to 14 days after infection.

I guess you are prescient? Doesn't matter. I didn't say it wasn't here and spreading. I may have said the numbers didn't indicate it though which they didn't at the time.

You said China had it under control, it was being eliminated.

He was right - about China.

> Sounds like what Trump thought too.

Trump didn't think about the subject at all. His sole interest was in appealing to his rather dim supporters.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 06:52:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

If you were dying from a C19 infection, and were offered these drugs
now, before proper clinical trials were published and meta-analyzed,
would you take them?

There's a fairly good chance that he would be dead:
<http://archive.vn/zC30G>
The drug touted by the U.S. President Donald Trump as a
possible line of treatment against the coronavirus comes
with severe warnings in China and can kill in dosages
as little as two grams.
China, where the deadly pathogen first emerged in December,
recommended the decades-old malaria drug chloroquine
to treat infected patients in guidelines issued in February
after seeing encouraging results in clinical trials.
But within days, it cautioned doctors and health officials
about the drug’s lethal side effects and rolled back
its usage. This came after local media reported that
a Wuhan Institute of Virology study found that the drug
can kill an adult just dosed at twice the daily amount
recommended for treatment, which is one gram.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 1:10:56 AM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 10:45:56 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 12:42:37 PM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 9:16:40 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 8:29:09 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-03-19 20:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 19:43:03 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-03-19 19:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 18:35:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-03-19 16:56, Winfield Hill wrote:
Rick C wrote...

Phil Hobbs wrote:

snip

I told you it was growing exponentially over a month ago when
you said it was being controlled.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Over a month ago would have been before the 20th February 2020.

If you look at the logarithmic version of the US case number graph it hits the axis on the 22nd February. In reality there were 35 cases by that date, so you didn't have enough numbers to justify that assertion rationally.

Sadly, you don't think clearly enough for your ravings to be taken as seriously as you'd like.

You just can't stand the truth. I was right.

You made a prediction that turned out to be correct. You did it at the point where the US Covid-19 cases were all imported - there were 35 of them at the time.

Patient zero in the exponential cascade probably got infected around the 17th February, but they probably hadn't infected anybody on the 20th February 2020, so the number infected wasn't "growing exponentially" at that point.

Confident assertions by half-wits can sometimes be right, but that doesn't make them any less half-witted.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 18:30:17 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 06:52:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:
If you were dying from a C19 infection, and were offered these drugs
now, before proper clinical trials were published and meta-analyzed,
would you take them?

There's a fairly good chance that he would be dead:
http://archive.vn/zC30G
The drug touted by the U.S. President Donald Trump as a
possible line of treatment against the coronavirus comes
with severe warnings in China and can kill in dosages
as little as two grams.
China, where the deadly pathogen first emerged in December,
recommended the decades-old malaria drug chloroquine
to treat infected patients in guidelines issued in February
after seeing encouraging results in clinical trials.
But within days, it cautioned doctors and health officials
about the drug’s lethal side effects and rolled back
its usage. This came after local media reported that
a Wuhan Institute of Virology study found that the drug
can kill an adult just dosed at twice the daily amount
recommended for treatment, which is one gram.

This drug has been used sucessfully for decades, against several
illnesses. I don't recommend that anyone take a lethal overdose of any
drug.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:19:49 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 8:04:42 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:20:06 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 15:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:06:51 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 14:22, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 13:32:11 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 20/03/2020 02:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

News:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fda-experimental-drugs-coronavirus

Wow, if it works DT will be a hero.


That sad thing is, there will be a large number of naďve and ignorant
Americans who will think he /is/ a hero here. All he has done is got
things completely wrong, contradicting his expert staff at every step
(including here), and making random decisions that he thinks will make
the stock market go up. But like a stopped clock, he occasionally gets
something right by luck - and his drolling zombie followers think he is
a genius for his few successes, while all his uncountable mistakes are
just a Democrat / media conspiracy.

Obviously I hope the drugs here work - but even if they do, Trump is
doing more harm than good as he screws up American doctors' ability to
test them properly.

The drugs are available and known to be safe. If some people are
dying, it may save lives to use them now. If it works, use them
widely. If "testing properly" means years of careful clinical trials
and peer-reviewed papers, delay years until the virus has burned out,
people will die. What DT says is his sensible: go for it now and see
what happens.

No doubt some people will, and we will see if these drugs help.

Let me repeat - you haven't a clue how drug testing works.
Regurgitating shite from Trump does nothing but prove your ignorance and
naďvety.

Let me repeat: people who don't want to consider ideas often resort to
insults.


That is true. And perhaps, since you seem to have failed to grasp basic
logic, you think that implies I don't want to consider ideas. This is,
of course, false.

And people who have repeatedly explained things in detail, may also
resort to hard truths. I am not insulting you, I am stating obvious
truths. You have rejected logic, explanations, information, references
to experts, and appeals to your humanity (this is all from many people
here).

What's humane about letting sick old people die, when we have drugs
that could help and are known to be safe?



It's not just old people, 40% of serious cases are people 20 to 64.
Men are twice as likely to die as women. I agree that the decision
to try off label use of approved drugs should be up to the patient
and their doctor. It's already happening. We're headed towards
an epic disaster, where hospitals will soon have to triage patients
and just let some die because we don't have ICU beds and ventilators.
It's not 2019 anymore. Taking some small risk is more than justified
and it should be up to the patient.

On the other hand, Trump should stop using the words game changer and
giving people false hope.

“I’m not being overly optimistic or pessimistic,” Trump added. “I sure
as hell think we ought to give it a try. There’s been some interesting
things happening and some very good things. Let’s see what happens. We
have nothing to lose.”

“You know the expression: What the hell do you have to lose?”

The lefty press doesn't indicate that he considers these drugs to be
*possible* game changers.

"I think it could be a game changer. And maybe not," he said.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 11:27:46 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 18:30:17 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 06:52:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:
If you were dying from a C19 infection, and were offered these drugs
now, before proper clinical trials were published and meta-analyzed,
would you take them?

There's a fairly good chance that he would be dead:
http://archive.vn/zC30G
The drug touted by the U.S. President Donald Trump as a
possible line of treatment against the coronavirus comes
with severe warnings in China and can kill in dosages
as little as two grams.
China, where the deadly pathogen first emerged in December,
recommended the decades-old malaria drug chloroquine
to treat infected patients in guidelines issued in February
after seeing encouraging results in clinical trials.
But within days, it cautioned doctors and health officials
about the drug’s lethal side effects and rolled back
its usage. This came after local media reported that
a Wuhan Institute of Virology study found that the drug
can kill an adult just dosed at twice the daily amount
recommended for treatment, which is one gram.

This drug has been used sucessfully for decades, against several
illnesses. I don't recommend that anyone take a lethal overdose of any
drug.

So what is the right dose for COVID-19?

--

Rick C.

-++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209