Surge protector is a lie?...

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:18:45 PM UTC-4, ehsjr wrote:

On 3/15/2023 1:13 PM, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 12:12:54 PM UTC-4, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the point
in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV or
computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors. Living
in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension line to
houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

LOL! They run electric and phone and cable on the same poles. Electric is on top with phone and cable beneath. That way the phone and cable guys don\'t need to use HV procedures and equipment. But a cross is absolutely a possibility and procedures are in place to minimize the risk.

Higher voltage power lines are not run on the same poles as lower voltage lines, because they have different requirements for height, conductor separation and design of the structure. Also, there\'s no use, the two sets of wires run between different places.
Huh? Higher voltage power lines feed the input to the
\"Pole Pig\" (the transformer on the pole) and lower voltage
(240 V) power lines exit the transformer. Laterals are
connected from those low voltage lines to houses. Maybe
you can clarify what you mean by higher voltage and
lower voltage?

And those wires are not strung between the same poles. The line feeding the house is strung from the pole pig (transformer) to the house. Maybe it\'s different where you are. In the US, the low voltage line is 240V, and the wire is not large diameter. So they can\'t run it very far without larger losses than is practical. If the houses are not so close together, they simply mount a transformer by each house. A single house on a transformer is not uncommon. So the transformer goes on the pole supporting the higher voltage lines, closest to the house. But even these \"higher\" voltage lines are not high voltage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_transformer

The transformer feeding my house also feeds the house next to me. It is less than 100 feet from either house. But then the lines are underground, so not much chance of a line cross.

https://new-hampshire.libertyutilities.com/bath/commercial/safety/electrical/underground-services-transformers.html

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Commander Kinsey]

Trouble is any decent surge would blow its internal fuse, which stops it protecting, and the surge then carries on to the equipment. A better way would for the fuse to also stop power to the device it\'s protecting. Then if the surge is too much for the surge protector, you\'ve stopped the power to the device.

I\'m going make my own, with varistors big enough to blow a 30A fuse for the whole ring main.


On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 10:55:49 -0000, Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, it is probably only meant for spikes caused by things switching on and
off. I did, some years ago buy a packet of Surge protection vdr devices from
RS and fitted them inside plugs where there was room. One day there
apparently was a lightening strike nearby, and my stuff was fine except for
1 blown 5 amp fuse on a lamp. Interestingly these vdrs specs had an
amazingly small reaction time and could for a split second dump many amps,
but only over around 360v ish. So it was what one might call a limiter, I
suppose. Many appliances have something like this inside, I\'m told but never
looked.
Incidentally, I had a Samsung Fax machine, many years back trashed by a
lightening strike to the public telephone wires about a mile away. It just
rolled out black paper, It was under warranty, and the bloke who fixed it
changed the pcb saying its a common fault, now fixed by a surge suppressor
on the board.


Of course if you do really get a very local strike, I have seen the result
in a local factory. Every bit of electronics had its mains input circuit
trashed and nearly all the internal wiring had to be replaced and the
sockets were in fact blown off the wall and melted.
Really a sobering thought.
Brian

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 15:55:00 -0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 12/03/2023 15:21, Paul wrote:
So it is possible to make a surge arrestor with some useful properties.
Not all of these things need to be a joke.

In general if you have SMPS on the rings, you have what amounts to an 8
amp + capacitor surge limiter right there and short transients wont get
through the mains filters anyway.

In short if you get a surge big enough to be a problem it will take out
the surge arrestors only anyway.

My time in S Africa taught me that nothing is proof against near wire
strikes except physical isolation - transformer or opto coupler.

And if you get a full wire strike, all bets are off. You will be jumping
across any short gap anywhere nearby.

Full carnage.

Well one I fitted at my work (a little plug in one by something like Techtronics) melted into a lump and drew enough current to trip a 32A breaker. It saved a roomfull of stuff from 415V.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:38:43 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 08:35:54 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges, no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness. So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the point in that?

Cheap chinese appliances with fake UL and CE labels need fake chinese
surge protectors with fake UL and CE labels.

Micromark seems to be sold in the UK but not in the US.

I have a 2kW fanheater by Micromark and it seems to be fine. Had it for years and used it loads of times. Cuts out nicely when it gets clogged with dust too.

 

[ehsjr]

On 3/16/2023 11:46 AM, Ricky wrote:

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:18:45 PM UTC-4, ehsjr wrote:
On 3/15/2023 1:13 PM, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 12:12:54 PM UTC-4, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the point
in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV or
computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors. Living
in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension line to
houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

LOL! They run electric and phone and cable on the same poles. Electric is on top with phone and cable beneath. That way the phone and cable guys don\'t need to use HV procedures and equipment. But a cross is absolutely a possibility and procedures are in place to minimize the risk.

Higher voltage power lines are not run on the same poles as lower voltage lines, because they have different requirements for height, conductor separation and design of the structure. Also, there\'s no use, the two sets of wires run between different places.
Huh? Higher voltage power lines feed the input to the
\"Pole Pig\" (the transformer on the pole) and lower voltage
(240 V) power lines exit the transformer. Laterals are
connected from those low voltage lines to houses. Maybe
you can clarify what you mean by higher voltage and
lower voltage?

And those wires are not strung between the same poles.

They are here. We don\'t have underground wiring, like you.
Our utility is Consolidated Edison (Con Ed).

The high voltage line feeds many transformers; in my
neighborhood each pole pig feeds many houses. The word
\"many\" indicates a specification that Con Ed uses.
They allow some number of transformers fed by a high
voltage line and some number of houses fed by the
secondary of a pole pig before another pole pig
must be installed. There\'s also a distance spec; if
a pole pig is serving less than the maximum number of
houses and therefore could serve another house, the
distance from the pole pig to the house must be within
some maximum number of feet. If it isn\'t, then another
pole pig must be installed on a pole closer to the house.

A few years back we had a \"Northeaster\" that knocked down
a high voltage line that ran _between_ poles. The end of
that wire was \"dancing and prancing\" on the ground; it
melted the snow and burned a hole in the _dirt_ about
4-5 inches deep and maybe a foot in diameter. The
houses served by the first pole pig all had power.
The rest of the houses on the street served several
other pole pigs were dark.


Here\'s a link where you can see the high voltage lines
going from pole to pole - the same poles that have the
low voltage (240V). The picture is about 1/2 way
down in the document.
https://www.pottstowntrees.org/G1-Clearance-not-appearance.html


The line feeding the house is strung from the pole pig (transformer)
to the house. Maybe it\'s different where you are. In the US, the low
voltage line is 240V, and the wire is not large diameter. So they can\'t
run it very far without larger losses than is practical. If the houses
are not so close together, they simply mount a transformer by each
house. A single house on a transformer is not uncommon. So the
transformer goes on the pole supporting the higher voltage lines,
closest to the house. But even these \"higher\" voltage lines are not
high voltage.

That\'s why I asked for clarification. What are you calling
\"higher\" voltage - the voltage that you say is not on
or between utility poles?

Thanks,
Ed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_transformer

The transformer feeding my house also feeds the house next to me. It is less than 100 feet from either house. But then the lines are underground, so not much chance of a line cross.

https://new-hampshire.libertyutilities.com/bath/commercial/safety/electrical/underground-services-transformers.html

 

[server]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:18:37 -0400, ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> wrote:

On 3/15/2023 1:13 PM, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 12:12:54?PM UTC-4, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the point
in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV or
computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors. Living
in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension line to
houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

LOL! They run electric and phone and cable on the same poles. Electric is on top with phone and cable beneath. That way the phone and cable guys don\'t need to use HV procedures and equipment. But a cross is absolutely a possibility and procedures are in place to minimize the risk.

Higher voltage power lines are not run on the same poles as lower voltage lines, because they have different requirements for height, conductor separation and design of the structure. Also, there\'s no use, the two sets of wires run between different places.

Huh? Higher voltage power lines feed the input to the
\"Pole Pig\" (the transformer on the pole) and lower voltage
(240 V) power lines exit the transformer. Laterals are
connected from those low voltage lines to houses. Maybe
you can clarify what you mean by higher voltage and
lower voltage?

Ed

There seems to be some confusion regarding the terminology.

Most standards divide between low and high voltages around 1000 V.

However, in many standards the voltage range immediately above 1 kV is
known as the medium voltage range, which typically extends to a few
tens of kilovolts (e.g. up to 35 kV).

Big motors and power station generators operate typically at a few
kilovolts.

Feeding the local distribution transformers are done with medium
voltages in the 10-20 kV range. IIRC in the US 14 kV seems to be a
common medium voltage feeding the pigs in the poles.

The problem with the low 120/240 V distribution voltage with a pig in
every or every other pole is that you have to have medium voltage
lines on every other street to feed the pigs. This may require using
the same poles for both medium voltage feeds as well as low voltage
feeds.

In the rest of the world with 230/400 V local distribution voltage,
the distance between distribution transformers can be over 900 m, thus
the number of transformers is much smaller and much simpler medium
voltage network is required. Using open wires for the medium voltage
and isolated ABC cabling for low voltage lines are common. Using ABC
(aerial bundled cable) cabling also for the medium voltage cabling,
you might even have medium voltage (top), low voltage (230/400 V) and
ELV (e.g. telephone)bellow these in the same poles.

ABCs are also quite tolerant to falling trees, you might have one or
two fallen trees against the ABC between two poles without disrupted.
service. In severe cases, a pole might snap before the ABC is broken.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 11:57:42 -0000, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 15/03/2023 16:12, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV
or computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors.
Living in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension
line to houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

The way this is done may vary between the US and UK. This is
cross-posted to international groups.

Surely a surge can come from all sorts. What if you live near a factory with massive motors? What if lightening strikes somewhere? The electricity board might have lightning arrestors, but I bet something still gets through.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:24:58 -0000, Frank <\"frank \"@frank.net> wrote:

On 3/15/2023 12:12 PM, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the
point in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV
or computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors.
Living in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension
line to houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

I do not know about their wiring here. Service to my street is
underground but above ground leads to it. In the past I recall wet
branches falling causing the short between HT and LT.

The 11kV to 240V transformer which serves around 100 houses is just over the road from me. No overhead wires on either side. Can\'t see any overhead wires anywhere except the 330kV ones from a coal power station, and I think 11kV to a farm, which has it\'s own pole transformer, but there\'s never both voltages in the same place.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:24:58 -0000, Frank <\"frank \"@frank.net> wrote:

On 3/15/2023 12:12 PM, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the
point in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV
or computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors.
Living in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension
line to houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

I do not know about their wiring here. Service to my street is
underground but above ground leads to it. In the past I recall wet
branches falling causing the short between HT and LT.

Since when did voltage get called tension?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:12:45 -0000, Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:

On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the point
in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV or
computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors. Living
in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension line to
houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

Why twist them? And why not use the better conducting and less brittle copper?

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2023-03-22, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:24:58 -0000, Frank <\"frank \"@frank.net> wrote:

On 3/15/2023 12:12 PM, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the
point in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV
or computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors.
Living in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension
line to houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

I do not know about their wiring here. Service to my street is
underground but above ground leads to it. In the past I recall wet
branches falling causing the short between HT and LT.

Since when did voltage get called tension?

I think it was originally German thing: \"Spannung\"

--
Jasen.
🇺🇦 Слава Україні

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 05:08:44 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding, senile shithead, babbled:

Since when did voltage get called tension?

I think it was originally German thing: \"Spannung\"

Simply unbelievable: The trolling Scottish wanker asks one retarded question
after another ...and the miserable senile assholes infesting thesed ngs will
gladly comply and feed the sociopathic swine, time and again! LMAO

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-03-15 18:14, Ricky wrote:

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 12:25:05 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 3/15/2023 12:12 PM, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the
point in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV
or computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors.
Living in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension
line to houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.
I do not know about their wiring here. Service to my street is
underground but above ground leads to it. In the past I recall wet
branches falling causing the short between HT and LT.

Why would different voltage power lines be running on the same poles??? By \"LT\", do you mean phone and cable?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_pole

See the fifth picture (Typical North American utility pole)





--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-03-22 06:08, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2023-03-22, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:24:58 -0000, Frank <\"frank \"@frank.net> wrote:

On 3/15/2023 12:12 PM, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the
point in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV
or computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors.
Living in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension
line to houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

I do not know about their wiring here. Service to my street is
underground but above ground leads to it. In the past I recall wet
branches falling causing the short between HT and LT.

Since when did voltage get called tension?

I think it was originally German thing: \"Spannung\"

And Spanish: Alta tensión.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[server]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 02:08:43 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:12:45 -0000, Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:

On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the point
in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV or
computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors. Living
in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension line to
houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

Why twist them? And why not use the better conducting and less brittle copper?

In an ABC cable the isolated aluminum phase conductors are twisted
around an un insulated steel(alloy) neutral conductor. The steel wire
handles most of the mechanical load and often survives a tree falling
on the cable.

In a (nearly) balanced three phase cable, the neutral current is much
smaller than the phase currents, thus the neutral connection can have
a lower conductivity but better mechanical strength than phase
conductors.


Aluminum has only slightly worse conductivity, is much lighter and
cheaper as copper.

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:55:05 +0200, upsidedown@downunder.com, another
mentally challenged troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

Why twist them? And why not use the better conducting and less brittle copper?

In an ABC cable the

Fucking HILARIOUS the trolling Scottish attention whore and gay wanker
CONTINUES asking retarded \"questions\" ...and the troll-feeding senile
cretins, assholes and shitheads in these groups CONTINUE feeding him
eagerly! Why don\'t you USELESS cretins just croak?

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2023-04-01, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 10:56:43 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-03-22 06:08, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2023-03-22, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:24:58 -0000, Frank <\"frank \"@frank.net> wrote:

On 3/15/2023 12:12 PM, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the
point in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV
or computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors.
Living in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension
line to houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

I do not know about their wiring here. Service to my street is
underground but above ground leads to it. In the past I recall wet
branches falling causing the short between HT and LT.

Since when did voltage get called tension?

I think it was originally German thing: \"Spannung\"


And Spanish: Alta tensión.

So instead of the water analogy, they use an analogy of.... weightlifting?

maybe a drive chain.

--
Jasen.
🇺🇦 Слава Україні

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 3 Apr 2023 08:11:13 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding, senile shithead, babbled:

So instead of the water analogy, they use an analogy of.... weightlifting?

maybe a drive chain.

Is there no question by the Scottish attention whore retarded enough that
you troll-feeding will not gladly \"answer\", EVERY TIME? LOL

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 03/04/2023 09:11, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2023-04-01, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 10:56:43 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-03-22 06:08, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2023-03-22, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:24:58 -0000, Frank <\"frank \"@frank.net> wrote:

On 3/15/2023 12:12 PM, Andrew wrote:
On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the
point in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV
or computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors.
Living in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension
line to houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

I do not know about their wiring here. Service to my street is
underground but above ground leads to it. In the past I recall wet
branches falling causing the short between HT and LT.

Since when did voltage get called tension?

I think it was originally German thing: \"Spannung\"


And Spanish: Alta tensión.

So instead of the water analogy, they use an analogy of.... weightlifting?

maybe a drive chain.

if you have ever seen a good close up electrostatic discharge the idea
of a stretched cable snapping is not far off


--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don\'t work to a problem that
doesn\'t exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don\'t protect, masquerading as public servants who don\'t serve the public.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 19:47:25 -0000, Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:

On 22/03/2023 12:55, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 02:08:43 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:12:45 -0000, Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:

On 11/03/2023 18:47, Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2023 5:48 AM, Slevin wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector. Just a plug (not as in to
connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges,
no cable comes out of it). I was interested in the LED on the front
which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see
how it knew if it had expired. What do I find? An array of
varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a
clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.
So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny
surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway? What\'s the point
in that?

Simple. When the light goes out you give Micromark more of your
money...but I think you knew that.

Surge protectors are a lot cheaper than appliances like microwave, TV or
computer. I had problems with all before using surge protectors. Living
in a treed area, high tension line would fall onto low tension line to
houses causing the voltage surge.

HT lines generally do not cross over LV lines for this reason.

All the places where I have seen this happens there is always
an additional bare copper earth line above the 3 phases
and neutral, and this extra earth is connected to earth
at each of the supporting poles.

These days the LV stuff is being replaced with twisted bundles
of insulated aluminium cable anyway which should minimise the
problem.

Why twist them? And why not use the better conducting and less brittle copper?

In an ABC cable the isolated aluminum phase conductors are twisted
around an un insulated steel(alloy) neutral conductor. The steel wire
handles most of the mechanical load and often survives a tree falling
on the cable.

In a (nearly) balanced three phase cable, the neutral current is much
smaller than the phase currents, thus the neutral connection can have
a lower conductivity but better mechanical strength than phase
conductors.


Aluminum has only slightly worse conductivity, is much lighter and
cheaper as copper.

And being lighter it means that 40+ old creosoted poles
could have a longer life.

When ever copper prices are high there is a spate of
replacing bare copper 240V stuff on poles with bundles
of twisted insulated aluminium conductors. I guess it
is also possible to have bigger section conductors for
the same weight. Important with more people buying EV\'s,
heat pumps and heated tubs /pools.

Apparently I have to inform the power company when I install an EV charger. Like I\'m gonna bother doing that.