Surge protector is a lie?...

[Peeler]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 17:03:56 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>


--
dennis@home to retarded trolling senile Rodent:
\"sod off rod you don\'t have a clue about anything.\"
Message-ID: <uV9lE.196195$cx5.41611@fx46.iad>

 

[Peeler]

On 12 Mar 2023 02:07:23 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> I\'d been out of college for four years before

Oh, no! Not yet more thrilling details from the exciting life of the
resident chatterbox! <BG>

--
Yet more of the so very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
\"My family loaded me into a \'51 Chevy and drove from NY to Seattle and
back in \'52. I\'m alive. The Chevy had a painted steel dashboard with two
little hand prints worn down to the primer because I liked to stand up
and lean on it to see where we were going.\"
MID: <j2kuc1F3ejsU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[charles]

In article <o54q0ipi2e1pth43odra76acou2d6nf5m8@4ax.com>,
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On 11 Mar 2023 22:10:58 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 11:28:02 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 3/11/2023 10:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:


What degrees do you have? You sound like a classic engineer-hating
technician. It ain\'t our fault we went to college; most of us were
there for the girls.


LOL! Not the engineers I know.

The sort that carried a K&E slide rule with the magnifying cursor in a
belt holster? I got the same answers with my $1.59 plastic slipstick and
had money left over for drugs, sex, and rock\'n\'roll.

Real Men carried yellow aluminum Pickett slide rules. Bamboo slide
rules were *old fashioned*

I\'ve got one that belonged to my grandfather ;-) He died over 100 years ago

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
\"I\'d rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom\" Thomas Carlyle

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-12, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I\'d worked summers for the NYS Dept. of Education and those were the state
of the art for the statistical number crunching when they were preparing
the exam pool for the professional or Regents exams. I don\'t know how many
states do it but the Regents were standardized high school examinations.
At the time you could get a Regents diploma if you passed the exams or a
local diploma which was Podunk High certifying you\'d scraped through for
years.

There was nothing like that in Michigan when I graduated from high
school. A high school diploma was a high school diploma, no matter
if you got it from Cass Tech or Snake Navel High. You got it if you
passed enough of your high school classes.

Only a few states have graduation tests:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_achievement_tests_in_the_United_States

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-12, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

I certainly don\'t remember long division. I guess I could figure out
how to subtract and maybe even multiply if I had to. I doubt I\'d ever
have to.

I can still do long division. I do pencil-and-paper calculations
pretty frequently. Sometimes it\'s quicker than bringing up a calculator
app.

I had a physics professor who could multiply quite large numbers
(IIRC three digits by three digits) in his head faster than we could
punch them into our calculators.


--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[alan_m]

On 12/03/2023 07:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I can\'t even really remember how I do mental arithmetic. I had it
drilled into me for the 11+. And it just got instinctive.

I cant even imagine someone who cant subtract or multiply.

You see them all the time on TV and they seem to be proud of it.

The other skill people seem to have forgotten is how to roughly estimate
what the final answer may be for the sanity check.




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

 

[server]

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 09:37:54 -0800 (PST), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

>People read that a $10 outlet strip can work magic and protect them from bad stuff. There\'s very little you can to to protect your equipment actually. The worst stuff seems to be from the phone lines, rather than the power lines. Probably because there is much less load on the phone lines, so the voltage can spike higher.

Those devices that are connected to multiple networks, such as mains,
phone, CATV etc. are at greater risk and are hardest to protect.
Typically each of these networks are grounded at different places.
While in normal situations these grounding points are in a similar
potential, but during a surge several kA can flow into only one
network grounding point. Due to grounding resistance (and inductance),
this current will cause a ground bounce of hundred or thousand volts
on the whole network.

For example a lightning strike into phone system will cause a ground
bounce at the telephone exchange elevating the whole telephone network
potential. The mains network potential may be undisturbed.

If you have a device, such as modem, connected to both mains and phone
network, the elevated potential on the phone network may flash over
to the mains network grounding electrode, burning a lot of PCB traces
on the way.

A device connected to only one network such as a passive telephone,
may jump to several kV due to ground bounce without damage, since
there are no paths to ground. Of course it is not a good idea to use
the phone during a thunderstorm, since you may get a spark from the
elevated potential of the headphone into your ear .

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-03-11 09:35, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I have a Micromark surge protector.  Just a plug (not as in to connect
an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges, no cable
comes out of it).  I was interested in the LED on the front which says
\"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see how it knew if
it had expired.  What do I find?  An array of varistors as expected, but
the only connection to live was through a clumsily soldered on piece of
fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.  So.... it blows the fusewire as soon
as there\'s an infinitely tiny surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of
it anyway?  What\'s the point in that?

Guessing, the varistors absorb a quick surge, and the \"fuse\" doesn\'t
blow. If the surge is enough to blow the electronics and cause them to
short circuit, the \"fuse\" blows and avoids the gadget to cause damage to
the rest of the house. Of course, the spike could still blow the house,
but you will not be able to sue Micromark for it.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Joe]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 10:37:49 +0000
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On 12/03/2023 07:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I can\'t even really remember how I do mental arithmetic. I had it
drilled into me for the 11+. And it just got instinctive.

I cant even imagine someone who cant subtract or multiply.

You see them all the time on TV and they seem to be proud of it.

I believe it\'s in TV presenters\' contracts that if mathematics is
mentioned for any reason, they must say \'I was no good at maths at
school.\" Carol Vorderman has an exemption.

The other skill people seem to have forgotten is how to roughly
estimate what the final answer may be for the sanity check.

A vital part of the calculation when using a slide rule, which doesn\'t
keep track of the decimal point.

--
Joe

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 12/03/2023 11:50, Joe wrote:

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 10:37:49 +0000
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On 12/03/2023 07:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I can\'t even really remember how I do mental arithmetic. I had it
drilled into me for the 11+. And it just got instinctive.

I cant even imagine someone who cant subtract or multiply.

You see them all the time on TV and they seem to be proud of it.

I believe it\'s in TV presenters\' contracts that if mathematics is
mentioned for any reason, they must say \'I was no good at maths at
school.\" Carol Vorderman has an exemption.

BBC comprises ArtStudents™ only - even when they claim to have science
degrees. Cf Brian COCKS

The other skill people seem to have forgotten is how to roughly
estimate what the final answer may be for the sanity check.

A vital part of the calculation when using a slide rule, which doesn\'t
keep track of the decimal point.

--
\"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him.\"

- Leo Tolstoy

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 12/03/2023 10:37, alan_m wrote:

On 12/03/2023 07:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I can\'t even really remember how I do mental arithmetic. I had it
drilled into me for the 11+. And it just got instinctive.

I cant even imagine someone who cant subtract or multiply.

You see them all the time on TV and they seem to be proud of it.

You see them all the time as chancellors of the exchequer too.

The other skill people seem to have forgotten is how to roughly estimate
what the final answer may be for the sanity check.

--
\"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him.\"

- Leo Tolstoy

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 07:37:26 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 12/03/2023 05:50, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 21:29:24 -0800, John Larkin wrote:


I certainly don\'t remember long division. I guess I could figure out how
to subtract and maybe even multiply if I had to. I doubt I\'d ever have
to.

Back in the day I was pretty adept with the Trachtenberg system of
multiplication and I would confirm the product by casting out the nines. I
might still be able to do it with 2 2 digit numbers on a good day.

I don\'t know when started to do it but I find my subtraction is a two part
process now. For example how many years from 1974 to 2023? tens to become
26 (1974 + 26 = 2000) + 23 = 49 rather than borrow 1 for 13 - 4 is 9,
borrow 1 for 11 - 7 is 4.

On a sum that simple I\'d probably note that 4 is greater than three by
one, and 202-197 = 5 so it is 49.
I can\'t even really remember how I do mental arithmetic. I had it
drilled into me for the 11+. And it just got instinctive.

I cant even imagine someone who cant subtract or multiply.

It\'s hard to imagine someone who still does it by hand.

There a manual algorithm for taking square roots too, sort of a
convoluted long division. I actually did that, once.

>No wonder people believe in man made climate change.

How\'s that related?

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 12/03/2023 14:54, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 07:37:26 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 12/03/2023 05:50, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 21:29:24 -0800, John Larkin wrote:


I certainly don\'t remember long division. I guess I could figure out how
to subtract and maybe even multiply if I had to. I doubt I\'d ever have
to.

Back in the day I was pretty adept with the Trachtenberg system of
multiplication and I would confirm the product by casting out the nines. I
might still be able to do it with 2 2 digit numbers on a good day.

I don\'t know when started to do it but I find my subtraction is a two part
process now. For example how many years from 1974 to 2023? tens to become
26 (1974 + 26 = 2000) + 23 = 49 rather than borrow 1 for 13 - 4 is 9,
borrow 1 for 11 - 7 is 4.

On a sum that simple I\'d probably note that 4 is greater than three by
one, and 202-197 = 5 so it is 49.
I can\'t even really remember how I do mental arithmetic. I had it
drilled into me for the 11+. And it just got instinctive.

I cant even imagine someone who cant subtract or multiply.

It\'s hard to imagine someone who still does it by hand.

There a manual algorithm for taking square roots too, sort of a
convoluted long division. I actually did that, once.

Yeah, its a bitch. Did that for IIRC the 11+.

No wonder people believe in man made climate change.

How\'s that related?


Only people who cant or are too lazy to do sums get taken in.

--
\"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold.\"

― Confucius

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 10:37:49 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

On 12/03/2023 07:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I can\'t even really remember how I do mental arithmetic. I had it
drilled into me for the 11+. And it just got instinctive.

I cant even imagine someone who cant subtract or multiply.

You see them all the time on TV and they seem to be proud of it.

The other skill people seem to have forgotten is how to roughly estimate
what the final answer may be for the sanity check.

Oh, I\'m very good at that. I do it in front of people, at a
whiteboard, and they are impressed. Usually there is no need for the
final answer; the guess is good enough.

One thing a slide rule didn\'t do was locate the decimal point. 4.65e-3
can be a lot different from 4.65e-5. They didn\'t add or subtract
either. I don\'t miss slide rules. (Or parenthesis.)

See Williams \"Analog Circuit Design\" vol 1, p 295, \"Lightning
Empiricism.\"

Everybody here should have Williams\' two books.

And AoE3 plus x-chapters.

And Reference Data For Radio Engineers

And the Williams+Taylor filter book, not the same Williams.

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-12, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 07:37:26 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

I cant even imagine someone who cant subtract or multiply.

It\'s hard to imagine someone who still does it by hand.

Ah, well. I like to keep my hand in. For anything really
complicated, I use a calculator app.

For something like, \"how many square feet is that quarter-circle
flower bed?\" paper and pencil is fine. For that flower bed,
approximating pi to 3 works just fine.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Paul]

On 3/12/2023 7:44 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-03-11 09:35, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have a Micromark surge protector.  Just a plug (not as in to connect an appliance, it just plugs into a socket to absorb surges, no cable comes out of it).  I was interested in the LED on the front which says \"protection active\", so I opened it to look inside to see how it knew if it had expired.  What do I find?  An array of varistors as expected, but the only connection to live was through a clumsily soldered on piece of fusewire about 1-2 amps thickness.  So.... it blows the fusewire as soon as there\'s an infinitely tiny surge, so therefore can\'t absorb much of it anyway?  What\'s the point in that?

Guessing, the varistors absorb a quick surge, and the \"fuse\" doesn\'t blow. If the surge is enough to blow the electronics and cause them to short circuit, the \"fuse\" blows and avoids the gadget to cause damage to the rest of the house. Of course, the spike could still blow the house, but you will not be able to sue Micromark for it.

Obviously, there is some complicated rationale for what was done.

If you look at a proper design, the protective components have
barriers placed next to them, to contain shrapnel. And this is
to prevent the protection block from becoming a flame thrower
or punching holes in adjacent components.

The components are also placed in a metallic housing (for fun).

So it is possible to make a surge arrestor with some useful properties.
Not all of these things need to be a joke.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/06/from-the-wirecutter-the-best-surge-protector-for-your-home-electronics/

There is a single-plug entrant there, but the physical properties
aren\'t quite as good.

Paul

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 12:44:32 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

Guessing, the varistors absorb a quick surge, and the \"fuse\" doesn\'t
blow. If the surge is enough to blow the electronics and cause them to
short circuit, the \"fuse\" blows and avoids the gadget to cause damage to
the rest of the house. Of course, the spike could still blow the house,
but you will not be able to sue Micromark for it.

What counts for the attention-starved gay Scottish wanker is whether you
demented troll-feeding senile spick will give him yet some more blow jobs!
From the looks of it, both of you enjoy it equally.

--
More details from Birdbrain Macaw\'s (now \"James Wilkinson\" LOL) sociopathic
\"mind\":
\"If I wanted you to stab me with a knife and kill me, you should not
get into trouble for it\".
\"I would kill my sister if I thought I\'d get away with it\".
\"I\'m not what most people think of as human\".
(Courtesy of Mr Pounder)

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 09:26:04 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
<hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-12, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

I certainly don\'t remember long division. I guess I could figure out
how to subtract and maybe even multiply if I had to. I doubt I\'d ever
have to.

I can still do long division. I do pencil-and-paper calculations
pretty frequently. Sometimes it\'s quicker than bringing up a calculator
app.

I had a physics professor who could multiply quite large numbers
(IIRC three digits by three digits) in his head faster than we could
punch them into our calculators.

There are people who can do digit-perfect math in their heads, to many
decimal places. It seems to be a skill like solving a Rubics cube,
sort of orthogonal to intelligence and often correlated to autism. I
know a very weird male teenager who can do a Rubic in seconds but may
never be employable. [1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_calculator

Electronic design works well with good guessing (to, say, 5 or 10%
accuracy) followed, when necessary, with calculating, programming, or
Spice simulation.

I like Spice because it can leave behind commented records of what and
why. Like pencil calcs in a notebook can. For people who comment, of
course. Most Spice files posted here have no title, no author, no
date, no comments, and are ugly to boot.

[1] Reminds me in a scene in the movie \"Silk Road.\" The final bust was
done in the Glen Park Village public library, just down the hill from
us, where we borrow books and vids. They used some different library
in the film; pity.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 12/03/2023 15:21, Paul wrote:

So it is possible to make a surge arrestor with some useful properties.
Not all of these things need to be a joke.

In general if you have SMPS on the rings, you have what amounts to an 8
amp + capacitor surge limiter right there and short transients wont get
through the mains filters anyway.

In short if you get a surge big enough to be a problem it will take out
the surge arrestors only anyway.

My time in S Africa taught me that nothing is proof against near wire
strikes except physical isolation - transformer or opto coupler.

And if you get a full wire strike, all bets are off. You will be jumping
across any short gap anywhere nearby.

Full carnage.


--
\"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.\"

Jonathan Swift.

 

[rbowman]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 09:22:59 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

There was nothing like that in Michigan when I graduated from high
school.
A high school diploma was a high school diploma, no matter if you got
it
from Cass Tech or Snake Navel High. You got it if you passed enough of
your high school classes.

I don\'t know if a Regents diploma bought you much unless you were applying to a college. There was a separate test to determine eligibility for a scholarship:

https://www.hesc.ny.gov/pay-for-college/financial-aid/types-of-financial-aid/nys-grants-scholarships-awards/nys-scholarships-for-academic-excellence.html

I forget what I got, perhaps $500 in the days of $2000 tuition. It definitely isn\'t keeping up with the colleges. I was a less than stellar student so it was a shock when the morning announcements over the PA included the fact I\'d gotten the highest score in the county, let alone the school.