Putin puts nuclear forces on high alert...

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:44:28 AM UTC+11, legg wrote:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 19:32:06 -0800 (PST), Anthony William Sloman
bill....@ieee.org> wrote:

snip

Encouraging and arming separatist insurrections in neighbouring states isn\'t a great way of getting the states around Russia to support Russia.

Actually, replacing the government is a common method of \'gaining support\' in both hemispheres.

It does make the governments of adjacent states decidedly nervous.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

And because Russia is run by people too dim to realise that waging war on their neighbours isn\'t a profitable exercise.

Problem is, war is profitable to those in power, and their friends.

Sometimes, in the short term. Putin and the oligarchs are seeing their overseas holdings expropriated, so it isn\'t going to be all that profitable for them.

> However, you don\'t nuke territory that you intend to occupy. Russia has experience in repopulating areas of strategic interest, without resorting to outright vandalism. Kaliningrad, Sevastopol, the Ukraine . . .

It doesn\'t seem to be working too well in the Ukraine. There\'s quite a bit of relatively indiscriminate bombardment going on, and it\'s going to take quite a lot of tedious reconstruction to undo what\'s already been destroyed. Russia isn\'t famous for the quality of it\'s infrastructure, but it does take a while to get seriously fought-over territory back to it\'s previous productivity. The Russians may have hoped to get hold of the Ukraine without a particularly destructive campaign, but this may have been optimistic.

Kalingrad (formerly Königsberg) had it\'s German population deported to Germany from 1946 to 1949, and it took rather longer to get it rebuilt. It did take quite a lot of damage during WW2.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:45:18 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:

On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

<snip>

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...

Hitler\'s invasion of Poland is what started WW2. Nobody was in a position to stop him - Stalin certainly wasn\'t - and Hitler did buy off Stalin with a fair chunk of Poland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

> It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

It hasn\'t got a lot on common. Shooting Putin wouldn\'t help. If the bulk of the Russian government decide that the invasion wasn\'t such a good idea, Putin may end up being deposed, and quite possibly prosecuted for corruption, which could improve things quite a bit.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:

On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?

Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
drills with their nuclear submarines.

May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
detect/locate/target.

I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
Putin do as he pleases any longer.

Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

I don\'t see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...
It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.

As I said, no one is going to enter a shooting war over Ukraine. Not because Russia\'s attack is reasonable, but because we don\'t want WWIII. There will be significant costs though, to everyone.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?

Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
drills with their nuclear submarines.

May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
detect/locate/target.

I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
Putin do as he pleases any longer.

Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

I don\'t see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...
It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.

afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and continuously talking about unification, since they were made two separate countries after the falls of USSR
If Putins goal was to make every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have succeeded

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 14.45.18 UTC+1 skrev Dimiter Popoff:

On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?

Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
drills with their nuclear submarines.

May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
detect/locate/target.

I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
Putin do as he pleases any longer.

Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

I don\'t see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

afaiu, Ukraine not meeting the requirements for membership and with unresolved territorial disputes they weren\'t close to joining anyway

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...
It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

If Putin wants to roleplay as Hitler can we just skip to the part where he shots
himself in the bunker?

if Lukasjenko wants to join the play as Mussolini, well ...

 

[David Brown]

On 02/03/2022 20:35, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
succeeded

Georgia has now started an application to join the EU...

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 3/2/2022 16:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:45:18 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

snip

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...

Hitler\'s invasion of Poland is what started WW2. Nobody was in a position to stop him - Stalin certainly wasn\'t - and Hitler did buy off Stalin with a fair chunk of Poland.

Yes, and the world kept on watching, *this* is my point. The French
waited until he came for them, the Brits waited until he bombed
London and the US waited until later.

It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

It hasn\'t got a lot on common. Shooting Putin wouldn\'t help. If
the bulk of the Russian government decide that the invasion wasn\'t

such a good idea, Putin may end up being deposed, and> quite possibly
prosecuted for corruption, which could> improve things quite a bit.

Hah, I thought I\'d just say this is laughable but then I realized
you have never lived in a country with a regime like this - which
I have.
There is zero chance of someone in the Russian \"political\" life
to even think of crossing Putin. They are all creeping like worms
around him. Those who did otherwise are long gone, e.g. I lost the
count of regional governors who died in a \"helicopter accident\"
after they got >5 or so (the last one was Lebed IIRC).
There is no such thing as a government as you think of it, those
are just clerks trying to guess what to do in order to please the
boss in the Kremlin.
The only way to oust him is by killing him or waiting him to die
by natural causes, **no** other option is on the table.

 

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:43:04 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

> As I said, no one is going to enter a shooting war over Ukraine. Not because Russia\'s attack is reasonable, but because we don\'t want WWIII. There will be significant costs though, to everyone.

The costs, and sanctions, in pre-NATO times were wielded by Truman during the
Berlin Airlift. Not a shots-fired response, but the USSR pulled back then, and
its successor state might do so now.

Stalin pulled back because he needed trade to rebuild; if Putin pulls back, it will be at
the behest of oligarchs who dislike separation from their bank accounts...

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 3/2/2022 23:41, whit3rd wrote:

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:43:04 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

As I said, no one is going to enter a shooting war over Ukraine. Not because Russia\'s attack is reasonable, but because we don\'t want WWIII. There will be significant costs though, to everyone.

The costs, and sanctions, in pre-NATO times were wielded by Truman during the
Berlin Airlift. Not a shots-fired response, but the USSR pulled back then, and
its successor state might do so now.

Stalin pulled back because he needed trade to rebuild; if Putin pulls back, it will be at
the behest of oligarchs who dislike separation from their bank accounts...

Don\'t count on the oligarchs to be able to do anything about it.
They all have become what they are because the KGB put them in these
positions, what they have at their disposal is all to be surrendered
on request. Or else. We have seen some of them killed already.
Some of them would probably be glad to shoot Putin but he knows that
so they won\'t be given a chance.

 

[legg]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 06:30:50 -0800 (PST), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:35:59 AM UTC-5, legg wrote:
On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:07:17 -0800 (PST), Rick C
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?
A change. Any change. Parking lot occupancy. Reduced
personnel leave. Traffic.

~Whatever was observed the last time an \'alert level\'
was raised.

Ok, you have no idea. Got it. So how do you know nothing has been observed?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/putin-put-russias-nuclear-forces-on-alert-what-does-that-mean-for-the-risk-of-nuclear-war

How has the United States responded to Putin so far?

There is no evidence that the Biden administration has reciprocated in
any sense to Putin’s announcement that he was ordering his nuclear
forces in a “special regime of combat duty” — perhaps in part because
it was unclear what that means in practical terms.

Nor was there word from Washington of evidence that Putin had taken
worrying steps such as loading nuclear weapons on all or a portion of
Russia’s nuclear-capable air fleet or sending additional ballistic
missile submarines to sea.



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/us/politics/putin-nuclear-alert-biden-deescalation.html

Mr. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists said the
threats could be empty unless matched with evidence that nuclear
weapons are being removed from storage and prepared for action.

“Unless we see that kind of thing,” Mr. Kristensen said, “it’s
rhetoric — it’s madman brinkmanship.”



https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-puts-nuclear-forces-high-alert-escalating-worries-83152160

For many, Russia\'s announcement of a nuclear high alert stirred fears
that the West could be drawn into direct conflict with Russia. But a
senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
the United States had yet to see any appreciable change in Russia’s
nuclear posture.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian
nuclear weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?

Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
much.

But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
to detect/locate/target.

I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
*cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
countries should send in troops or even think about an
attack on Russia.

I don\'t see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
However, that is the case even if they simply let the
Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
go when Russia is in charge of your country.

Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the
truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
then... It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
succeeded

The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It\'s like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to
join the Warsaw Pact.

Yo, ruler-types: ddg for \"buffer state\".

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian
nuclear weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?

Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
much.

But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
to detect/locate/target.

I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
*cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
countries should send in troops or even think about an
attack on Russia.

I don\'t see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
However, that is the case even if they simply let the
Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
go when Russia is in charge of your country.

Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the
truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
then... It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
succeeded


The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It\'s like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to
join the Warsaw Pact.

Yo, ruler-types: ddg for \"buffer state\".

Phil Hobbs

But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
european.

I bet a lot of russians want to be more european.

We don\'t need buffer states.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian
nuclear weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?

Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
much.

But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
to detect/locate/target.

I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
*cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
countries should send in troops or even think about an
attack on Russia.

I don\'t see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
However, that is the case even if they simply let the
Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
go when Russia is in charge of your country.

Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the
truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
then... It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
succeeded


The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It\'s like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to
join the Warsaw Pact.

Yo, ruler-types: ddg for \"buffer state\".


But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
european.

Nobody over here is trying to prevent that. It\'s just beyond stupid to
back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
nothing left to lose is....

Cheers

Phil Hobbs



--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian
nuclear weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?

Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
much.

But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
to detect/locate/target.

I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
*cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
countries should send in troops or even think about an
attack on Russia.

I don\'t see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
However, that is the case even if they simply let the
Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
go when Russia is in charge of your country.

Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the
truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
then... It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
succeeded


The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It\'s like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to
join the Warsaw Pact.

Yo, ruler-types: ddg for \"buffer state\".


But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
european.

Nobody over here is trying to prevent that. It\'s just beyond stupid to
back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
nothing left to lose is....

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I don\'t think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

Bad that he has nukes.

It\'s crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian
nuclear weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?

Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
much.

But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
to detect/locate/target.

I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
*cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
countries should send in troops or even think about an
attack on Russia.

I don\'t see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
However, that is the case even if they simply let the
Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
go when Russia is in charge of your country.

Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the
truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
then... It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
succeeded


The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It\'s like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to
join the Warsaw Pact.

Yo, ruler-types: ddg for \"buffer state\".


But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
european.

Nobody over here is trying to prevent that. It\'s just beyond stupid to
back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
nothing left to lose is....


I don\'t think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

Bad that he has nukes.

It\'s crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.

Think about that Mexico -> Warsaw pact idea. It\'s a pretty close
parallel, I think.

I make no apologies for Putin, who was and is a murderous thug.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 8:33:57 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:

On 3/2/2022 16:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:45:18 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

snip

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...

Hitler\'s invasion of Poland is what started WW2. Nobody was in a position to stop him - Stalin certainly wasn\'t - and Hitler did buy off Stalin with a fair chunk of Poland.
Yes, and the world kept on watching, *this* is my point. The French
waited until he came for them, the Brits waited until he bombed
London and the US waited until later.
It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

It hasn\'t got a lot on common. Shooting Putin wouldn\'t help. If
the bulk of the Russian government decide that the invasion wasn\'t
such a good idea, Putin may end up being deposed, and> quite possibly
prosecuted for corruption, which could> improve things quite a bit.
Hah, I thought I\'d just say this is laughable but then I realized
you have never lived in a country with a regime like this - which
I have.

The Russian example would be the coup that got rid of Gorbachov.

There is zero chance of someone in the Russian \"political\" life
to even think of crossing Putin. They are all creeping like worms
around him. Those who did otherwise are long gone, e.g. I lost the
count of regional governors who died in a \"helicopter accident\"
after they got >5 or so (the last one was Lebed IIRC).

I\'m sure that they all think of \"crossing\" Putin more or less non-stop, but are very careful not to admit it.
Once Putin\'s position has been weakened by him starting an unsuccessful war, a palace coup becomes much more likely.

There is no such thing as a government as you think of it, those
are just clerks trying to guess what to do in order to please the
boss in the Kremlin.

The oligarchs aren\'t clerks, and they have all sustained large personal losses as a consequence of the invasion of the Ukraine.

> The only way to oust him is by killing him or waiting him to die by natural causes, **no** other option is on the table.

In a fully fledged dictatorship this would be true. Russia still retains the structure of an elected government, and within that a place coup can be a lot less deadly.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:

If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

What, as opposed to them drunk of Vodka and dancing the barynya?

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 4:33:57 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:

On 3/2/2022 16:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:45:18 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

snip

Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That\'s sad, but it\'s the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...

Hitler\'s invasion of Poland is what started WW2. Nobody was in a position to stop him - Stalin certainly wasn\'t - and Hitler did buy off Stalin with a fair chunk of Poland.
Yes, and the world kept on watching, *this* is my point. The French
waited until he came for them, the Brits waited until he bombed
London and the US waited until later.

I think you need to go back to your history lesson. The Brits were in the war long before Germany attacked England. Remember Dunkirk? That was the Brits getting thrown out of the mainland and signaled the beginning of the Battle of Brittan.

It won\'t be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

It hasn\'t got a lot on common. Shooting Putin wouldn\'t help. If
the bulk of the Russian government decide that the invasion wasn\'t
such a good idea, Putin may end up being deposed, and> quite possibly
prosecuted for corruption, which could> improve things quite a bit.
Hah, I thought I\'d just say this is laughable but then I realized
you have never lived in a country with a regime like this - which
I have.
There is zero chance of someone in the Russian \"political\" life
to even think of crossing Putin. They are all creeping like worms
around him. Those who did otherwise are long gone, e.g. I lost the
count of regional governors who died in a \"helicopter accident\"
after they got >5 or so (the last one was Lebed IIRC).
There is no such thing as a government as you think of it, those
are just clerks trying to guess what to do in order to please the
boss in the Kremlin.
The only way to oust him is by killing him or waiting him to die
by natural causes, **no** other option is on the table.

Yeah, that\'s why he\'s still there. But there is always a possibility of him screwing up so badly that they gang up on him. I don\'t think it will take 50 knives. Just 50 very powerful people who can take control of the government.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 4:41:18 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:43:04 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

As I said, no one is going to enter a shooting war over Ukraine. Not because Russia\'s attack is reasonable, but because we don\'t want WWIII. There will be significant costs though, to everyone.
The costs, and sanctions, in pre-NATO times were wielded by Truman during the
Berlin Airlift. Not a shots-fired response, but the USSR pulled back then, and
its successor state might do so now.

Stalin pulled back because he needed trade to rebuild; if Putin pulls back, it will be at
the behest of oligarchs who dislike separation from their bank accounts...

The US had a direct stake in the outcome of the situation in Berlin. That does not exist for the US or most other countries regarding Ukraine. That\'s the bottom line. Putin won\'t back down unless the cost is very, very high.

I seem to recall they spent 10 years trying to deal with Afghanistan before deciding it was too costly.

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:46:41 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 06:30:50 -0800 (PST), Rick C
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:35:59 AM UTC-5, legg wrote:
On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:07:17 -0800 (PST), Rick C
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
Whatever alert it was, it wasn\'t \'high alert\'.

There\'s no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
weapons alert status.

What would you expect to see?
A change. Any change. Parking lot occupancy. Reduced
personnel leave. Traffic.

~Whatever was observed the last time an \'alert level\'
was raised.

Ok, you have no idea. Got it. So how do you know nothing has been observed?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/putin-put-russias-nuclear-forces-on-alert-what-does-that-mean-for-the-risk-of-nuclear-war

Why did you post this link? The question was about how to tell if Russia has nuclear weapons on high alert. This article says nothing about that.

How has the United States responded to Putin so far?

There is no evidence that the Biden administration has reciprocated in
any sense to Putin’s announcement that he was ordering his nuclear
forces in a “special regime of combat duty” — perhaps in part because
it was unclear what that means in practical terms.

The US has indicated they have NOT responded in kind.

Nor was there word from Washington of evidence that Putin had taken
worrying steps such as loading nuclear weapons on all or a portion of
Russia’s nuclear-capable air fleet or sending additional ballistic
missile submarines to sea.



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/us/politics/putin-nuclear-alert-biden-deescalation.html

Mr. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists said the
threats could be empty unless matched with evidence that nuclear
weapons are being removed from storage and prepared for action.

“Unless we see that kind of thing,” Mr. Kristensen said, “it’s
rhetoric — it’s madman brinkmanship.”



https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-puts-nuclear-forces-high-alert-escalating-worries-83152160

For many, Russia\'s announcement of a nuclear high alert stirred fears
that the West could be drawn into direct conflict with Russia. But a
senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
the United States had yet to see any appreciable change in Russia’s
nuclear posture.

Yes, as Larkin is quick to point out, the world is full of fears.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209