Putin puts nuclear forces on high alert...

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:12:48 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing
anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons
on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then either
imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of the world
with him in WW3.
I suspect he knows all to well how folks \"disappear\" in Russian society,
having played that card, before.

He likely hopes/hoped this would be an \"overnight success\" and the
world would have to \"live with it\". The longer it drags on, the
more likely The Adults will displace him in the international dialog.
He\'ll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps him out
of the limelight -- until people realize he\'s also out of the *light*!

Unfortunately, it doesn\'t look like he\'s left himself an \"out\" where
he doesn\'t look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too high for the
rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the situation.

Of course Putin is going to win.

He may not win fast enough - or capture enough territory - to look successful enough to stay in power.

> No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This literally could develop into WWIII if they did.

The west sent quite a lot of anti-tank weapons to the Ukraine before the Russian invasion. We\'ve not heard anything to suggest that they worked, but we haven\'t seen any pictures of Russian tanks rolling through Kiev either. Effective defense doesn\'t make for dramatic pictures.

So, even if it drags out a bit, it won\'t be long before Ukraine is in Russian control.

Perhaps. Some of it already was.

> You can expect the surrounding countries like Poland to beef up their militaries and expect support from other European countries, just as the various counties controlled by Russia will band together. Reminds me of something... I can\'t quite place my finger on it.

Sudetenland, 1938. Hitler got the area without firing a shot, so it isn\'t exactly comparable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it\'s hard to say.

Putin.

There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

Autocratic regimes do start wars to distract their populations from internal problems.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 28.02.22 um 07:12 schrieb Rick C:

> Of course Putin is going to win. No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This literally could develop into WWIII if they did.

With that new abundance of Stingers, there is no chance left.
It was good enough for the Mujahedin, it will be enough for the
Ukrainians. This was planned as a 2 day action to go to Kiew
and take out the existing government. That did not happen.

Putin\'s Oligarch friends have lost any chance to get even
richer. Have you seen the happy faces of his \'successful\'
generals? How he mistreated his own secret service boss
live on TV? The endless rows at the money machines?

Putler will end up in an asylum where the inmates don\'t
have control.

All he\'s managed to do is that Germany allotted +€ 100B for the
army this year, plus > 2% Nato as expected, 500 Millions for
Ukrainian WEAPONS (no, we would never export weapons to problem
zones) + Stingers & bazookas from army stock, Swedes & Fins will
flock to NATO, they are scared; the Fins seem to have bought
F35s; even Orban and the Poles cannot get enough sanctions
(they are normally at the receiving end for not complying to
minimum democratic rules).

After 3 days, Europe looks completely different. The new green
German government (just 100 days) was against coal, oil, gas;
now they enforce inventory. North Stream II is dead;
LNG terminals are built at Wilhelmshafen and elsewere.

And the other states are alike. Looks like a great success
for Putin. Not. Russian GNP is like that of Italy, they
take twice the # of people to do it. That\'s not the base for
a super power.
Reagan demonstrated exactly that with silly things like ICBM
dense packs. Just spend the money, in 5 years they are bankrupt
trying to keep up. Happened before.
Oligarchs don\'t like that.

Gerhard

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 28-Feb-22 5:38 pm, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it\'s hard to say.

Putin.

There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

Autocratic regimes do start wars to distract their populations from internal problems.

True, though if they studied their history, they\'d know that it often
turns out badly for them.

Sylvia.

 

[David Brown]

On 28/02/2022 07:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:12:48 PM UTC+11,
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance.
The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of
hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert. Even a fraction
of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed,
and then either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants
to take the rest of the world with him in WW3.
I suspect he knows all to well how folks \"disappear\" in Russian
society, having played that card, before.

He likely hopes/hoped this would be an \"overnight success\" and
the world would have to \"live with it\". The longer it drags on,
the more likely The Adults will displace him in the international
dialog. He\'ll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps
him out of the limelight -- until people realize he\'s also out of
the *light*!

Unfortunately, it doesn\'t look like he\'s left himself an \"out\"
where he doesn\'t look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too
high for the rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the
situation.

Of course Putin is going to win.

He may not win fast enough - or capture enough territory - to look
successful enough to stay in power.

I think that is a key point.

Economic sanctions from the West don\'t hit as hard and fast as bombs and
tanks. But they /do/ hit, if the West keeps them up. We are already
seeing big drops in the Russian stock market, devaluation of their
currency, people rushing to take out their cash in fear of a banking
collapse. Foreign investment is pulling out, and the Russian elite are
having their foreign assets frozen. (And there are few things the
Russian elite dislike more than having to live in Russia.) The
Ukrainians don\'t have to keep the Russians out of their country - they
need to kill enough Russian soldiers that Putin\'s controlled media can\'t
cover it up any more.

Eventually there will come a point where the Russian people will
complain too loudly, and the Russian elites will have suffered enough -
Putin will be kicked out. For now, he has enough security forces in
cities to intimidate, arrest and/or beat up protestors, but that will
not last forever.

If Putin wants to stay in power, he needs to find an exit to all this
without losing too much face - and he doesn\'t have long to do so.

No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight
on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and
supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This
literally could develop into WWIII if they did.

Certainly no NATO troops will invade Russia or attack anything inside
Russia\'s borders. And that probably extends to Belarus as well. It is
very unlikely that NATO troops will be sent directly to Ukraine either.
NATO is not threatening Russia with military action, and that is a line
they will not cross (no matter how much Putin claims they are
threatening him).

The west sent quite a lot of anti-tank weapons to the Ukraine before
the Russian invasion. We\'ve not heard anything to suggest that they
worked, but we haven\'t seen any pictures of Russian tanks rolling
through Kiev either. Effective defense doesn\'t make for dramatic
pictures.

I don\'t know about /you/, but /I/ have certainly seen pictures and
reports of effective defence. Just this morning I saw footage from
Ukrainian drones, supplied by Turkey, taking out Russian convoys and
anti-air batteries. Obviously the Russians have a far bigger force with
a lot of equipment and training (though apparently problems with some
supplies, including fuel), but the Ukrainians are holding well so far.

Large quantities of weapons are being supplied to Ukraine from Europe
and other western countries. The EU is buying them fighter planes.
Country after country is breaking their long-standing tradition of not
supplying arms to conflict areas, and giving away military equipment.

So, even if it drags out a bit, it won\'t be long before Ukraine is
in Russian control.

Perhaps. Some of it already was.

There were parts of the east of Ukraine that were under separatist
control, which is not quite the same thing as being under Russian
control despite their support. The separatists want to be Ukrainian
with close ties to Russia, they don\'t want to be Russian.

(Of course the Crimea was under Russian control.)

 

[David Brown]

On 28/02/2022 05:41, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sylvia.

I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

It\'s worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).

 

[David Brown]

On 28/02/2022 07:38, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it\'s hard to say.

Putin.

There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

I doubt if NATO would do that no matter how much Russia collapses.
There might be UN-led peace-keepers, but not NATO-led forces. The
difference is very significant.

Autocratic regimes do start wars to distract their populations from internal problems.

So do some democratic regimes, though they like to make it very clear
that they didn\'t actually /start/ the war in question.

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 1:35:22 AM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:12:48 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing
anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons
on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then either
imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of the world
with him in WW3.
I suspect he knows all to well how folks \"disappear\" in Russian society,
having played that card, before.

He likely hopes/hoped this would be an \"overnight success\" and the
world would have to \"live with it\". The longer it drags on, the
more likely The Adults will displace him in the international dialog.
He\'ll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps him out
of the limelight -- until people realize he\'s also out of the *light*!

Unfortunately, it doesn\'t look like he\'s left himself an \"out\" where
he doesn\'t look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too high for the
rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the situation.

Of course Putin is going to win.
He may not win fast enough - or capture enough territory - to look successful enough to stay in power.

Putin\'s power in Russia does not depend on taking the Ukraine. It would diminish the perception of him being all powerful and a wise leader, but I\'m sure it would not be enough to depose him. Then there is the fact that it is unlikely Russia won\'t take the Ukraine, it\'s just a matter of how quickly and easily it will happen. That\'s the real damage to Putin, the appearance of being a butcher if there is enough exposure to scenes of Ukrainian citizens fighting the Russian military.

No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This literally could develop into WWIII if they did.
The west sent quite a lot of anti-tank weapons to the Ukraine before the Russian invasion. We\'ve not heard anything to suggest that they worked, but we haven\'t seen any pictures of Russian tanks rolling through Kiev either. Effective defense doesn\'t make for dramatic pictures.

Last night I read a column of tanks sent to find Ukrainian leaders was wiped out along with the general leading them. Seems missiles were used.

So, even if it drags out a bit, it won\'t be long before Ukraine is in Russian control.
Perhaps. Some of it already was.
You can expect the surrounding countries like Poland to beef up their militaries and expect support from other European countries, just as the various counties controlled by Russia will band together. Reminds me of something... I can\'t quite place my finger on it.
Sudetenland, 1938. Hitler got the area without firing a shot, so it isn\'t exactly comparable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland

It was a joke. The comparison is obvious and does not require pointing out..

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[server]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:27:04 +0100, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 28/02/2022 05:41, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sylvia.

I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

It\'s worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).

Some cultures are Not Nice. Some native north american tribes engaged
in constant warfare and killed strangers on sight. Some south american
tribes killed them and ate them.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[David Brown]

On 28/02/2022 17:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:27:04 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 28/02/2022 05:41, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sylvia.

I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

It\'s worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).

Some cultures are Not Nice. Some native north american tribes engaged
in constant warfare and killed strangers on sight. Some south american
tribes killed them and ate them.

It\'s fair to say there is a bit of variation, and not all cultures hold
to the same set of morals. But on the whole, most people just want to
get on with their own lives and are happy to let others get on with
theirs. It\'s leaders that start wars, not ordinary people.

In particular, you\'ll find that most Russians abroad - at least those
that have been away from Russia long enough to be out of the main sphere
of Putin\'s propaganda - are against the invasion.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

mandag den 28. februar 2022 kl. 18.30.43 UTC+1 skrev David Brown:

On 28/02/2022 17:25, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:27:04 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 28/02/2022 05:41, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid
wrote:

On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sylvia.

I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

It\'s worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).

Some cultures are Not Nice. Some native north american tribes engaged
in constant warfare and killed strangers on sight. Some south american
tribes killed them and ate them.

It\'s fair to say there is a bit of variation, and not all cultures hold
to the same set of morals. But on the whole, most people just want to
get on with their own lives and are happy to let others get on with
theirs. It\'s leaders that start wars, not ordinary people.

In particular, you\'ll find that most Russians abroad - at least those
that have been away from Russia long enough to be out of the main sphere
of Putin\'s propaganda - are against the invasion.

https://youtu.be/4oULSBdQb-U

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 11:26:00 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:27:04 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 28/02/2022 05:41, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid
wrote:

On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sylvia.

I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

It\'s worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).
Some cultures are Not Nice. Some native north american tribes engaged
in constant warfare and killed strangers on sight. Some south american
tribes killed them and ate them.

Maybe that\'s what\'s motivating Putin. He wants to eat the rich!

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 2/28/2022 4:31 AM, David Brown wrote:

On 28/02/2022 07:38, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it\'s hard to say.

Putin.

There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

I doubt if NATO would do that no matter how much Russia collapses.
There might be UN-led peace-keepers, but not NATO-led forces. The
difference is very significant.


Autocratic regimes do start wars to distract their populations from internal problems.


So do some democratic regimes, though they like to make it very clear
that they didn\'t actually /start/ the war in question.

Only thing worse than a Ukraine that falls quickly is a Ukraine that
doesn\'t fall quickly, Putin still has saturation bombing of urban areas
and use of chemical weapons/nerve gas in the escalation chain.

 

[bitrex]

On 2/28/2022 1:21 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The
last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair
trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western
civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it\'s
hard to say.


Putin.

There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

Sylvia.

Mutually assured destruction \"worked\" for 70 years, but a madman
convinced that he can do whatever he wants and take whatever territory
he wants by other means because his nuclear arms are a shield for him to
operate with impunity under, is uncharted territory

 

[bitrex]

On 2/28/2022 3:28 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 2/28/2022 1:21 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The
last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair
trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western
civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then
either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the
rest of
the world with him in WW3.

Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it\'s
hard to say.


Putin.

There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

Sylvia.

Mutually assured destruction \"worked\" for 70 years, but a madman
convinced that he can do whatever he wants and take whatever territory
he wants by other means because his nuclear arms are a shield for him to
operate with impunity under, is uncharted territory

That is to say it\'s purported that it was the position of Kennedy\'s
generals during the Cuban Missile Crisis that the best resolution was an
immediate invasion and occupation of Cuba, as they were convinced that
the Cubans/Soviets would never actually fire their missiles in response.

Kennedy was unconvinced

 

[bitrex]

On 2/28/2022 10:58 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 1:35:22 AM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:12:48 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing
anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons
on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

The delusional maniac knows there\'s risk that he\'ll deposed, and then either
imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of the world
with him in WW3.
I suspect he knows all to well how folks \"disappear\" in Russian society,
having played that card, before.

He likely hopes/hoped this would be an \"overnight success\" and the
world would have to \"live with it\". The longer it drags on, the
more likely The Adults will displace him in the international dialog.
He\'ll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps him out
of the limelight -- until people realize he\'s also out of the *light*!

Unfortunately, it doesn\'t look like he\'s left himself an \"out\" where
he doesn\'t look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too high for the
rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the situation.

Of course Putin is going to win.
He may not win fast enough - or capture enough territory - to look successful enough to stay in power.

Putin\'s power in Russia does not depend on taking the Ukraine. It would diminish the perception of him being all powerful and a wise leader, but I\'m sure it would not be enough to depose him. Then there is the fact that it is unlikely Russia won\'t take the Ukraine, it\'s just a matter of how quickly and easily it will happen. That\'s the real damage to Putin, the appearance of being a butcher if there is enough exposure to scenes of Ukrainian citizens fighting the Russian military.

I think Putin would far prefer to be thought a butcher than to not be
able to declare at least some type of victory in the Ukraine. No one who
matters figured he was anything but to begin with.

So if that means pounding Kyiv/Kiev to rubble just so someone can at
least raise the Russian flag over it and declare \"mission accomplished\"
for at least a lil while then that\'s what he do.

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:38:44 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:

There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

Yeah, maybe, but... NATO countries don\'t generally practice conscription,
and Russia does. Russian military would be part of the
peace-keeping, in any case. So, it\'d be a basically a military coup
internal to Russia, regardless of NATO presence.

 

[bitrex]

On 2/27/2022 3:32 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 20:33:11 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

On 2/27/2022 20:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on \"high\" alert.
Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
charge.

Maybe the finite human life span is nature\'s way of limiting that
effect.




It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
control.

Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
structure...

The US sensibly has term limits for President and most governers and
mayors. We need term limits for all politicians.

There was a recent study that shows that politicians get worse as they
age and learn the power game. Makes sense.

\"Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill\" - ancient
Greek(?) proverb

I\'d guess that a randomly selected plumber would be a better than
average senator or president.

\"He knows not how to rule a kingdom, that cannot manage a province; nor
can he wield a province, that cannot order a city; nor he order a city,
that knows not how to regulate a village; nor he a village, that cannot
guide a family, nor can that man govern well a family that knows not how
to govern himself...\"

Hugo Grotius

 

[Mike Monett]

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:38:44 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:

There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade
Russia.

But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping
forces.

Yeah, maybe, but... NATO countries don\'t generally practice
conscription, and Russia does. Russian military would be part of the
peace-keeping, in any case. So, it\'d be a basically a military coup
internal to Russia, regardless of NATO presence.

Doesn\'t matter. Looks like Putin has screwed himself and the Russian
economy. You can\'t believe everything you find on the web, but there is a
clear trend.

Sorry for the wrap.

EU, UK, Canada, US pledge to remove selected Russian banks from SWIFT
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/26/eu-uk-canada-us-pledge-to-remove-selected-
russian-banks-from-swift.html

Biden administration expands Russia sanctions, cuts off U.S. transactions
with central bank
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/28/biden-administration-expands-russia-
sanctions-cuts-off-us-transactions-with-central-bank.html

Russia?s economy in crisis as sanctions bite | Business | Economy and
finance news from a German perspective | DW | 28.02.2022
https://www.dw.com/en/russias-economy-in-crisis-as-sanctions-bite/a-
60943968

Russian soldiers \'dropping their weapons and don\'t want to fight\' | World |
News | Express.co.uk
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1571590/Russian-soldiers-Ukraine-
invasion-latest-Vladimir-Putin-latest-Kiev-fighting-vn

Vladimir Putin humiliated as troops down weapons in massive collapse of
Russian morale | World | News | Express.co.uk
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1572769/vladimir-putin-ukraine-war-
russian-soldiers-down-weapons-kharkiv

The damage is done: Russians face economic point of no return | Russia |
The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/the-damage-is-done-russians-
face-economic-point-of-no-return

 

[Robert Latest]

Fred Bloggs wrote:

If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing
anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on
\"high\" alert.

Aren\'t the nuclear arsenals permanently on high alert? They couldn\'t serve
their purpose otherwise.

Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
know it for a long time to come.

What about eastern civilization?