Personal CD player a Horror

[TT]

"Wayne Reid" <REMOVEgokangas@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nkKCd.3883$i6.32087@nasal.pacific.net.au...
:
: "quietguy" <david1133@REMOVE-TO-REPLYoptusnet.com.au>
wrote in message
: news:41DA89E9.2C34CB05@REMOVE-TO-REPLYoptusnet.com.au...
: > Ahh no. You are describing reliability, and MTBF, not
quality.
: >
: > Quality is more about comfort, roadholding, noise
levels, performance,
: design,
: > features, sophistication, but of course also includes
failures etc.
: >
: > David
: >
: > TT wrote:
: >
: > >
: > > BTW Quality is number of vehicles sold divided by the
number of
: failures as
: > > a percentage and then compared across makes.
:
: Not sure that
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/iso9000-14000/iso9000/qmp.html
: mentions that leather seats or bidy dampening as quality
requirements. Nor
: does it mention any equations containing vehicular
quanities or otherwise.
:
First off Wayne I have intimate knowledge of Quality
Assurance and until recently held SGS certification to
ISO/AS 9002. You have mentioned in your link the ISO 9000
series which is purely a managerial tool for maintaining
quality standards and ensuring consistency of product. It
is not about making or developing a better product it is all
about "consistency". e.g horse manurer could be certified
to ISO 9002

: Quality (in the context being discussed) is described in
the link above (not
: that anyone here would be greatly interested).

I am ;-)

The common misconception is
: that the level of luxury equates in some way to the
quality of the unit.
:
Correct.

: In the hi-fi world we may consider the musicality of the
equipment, or the
: transparency, low measures of distortion etc. to be
evidence of quality.
: Manufacturers on the other hand would be counting the
number of units that
: test OK at the end of the production line, and the number
of after sales
: services that need to be provided.
:
Also correct.

: Phil's CD player may sound pretty crappy,

It does. It uses 1 shared DAC of dubious "quality"

and he may have identified the
: design limitations that cause the poor audio reproduction,
and this may
: prove without doubt that the unit is not fit for his
listening pleasure, but
: TT's analogies with the car industry are valid,

Naturally ;-)

and these examples tell us
: that quality is not measured by how the item works, as
opposed to whether it
: works as designed.
:
You're going really well here.

: I'm entering dangerous waters here, but you can all see
that deep down, TT
: is really in total agreement with Phil

Oops! And you were going so well to :-(

by the way he added so much to this
: thread.
:
: WR
:
BTW the word Quality can mean different things to different
people. I take it as something that is fit for purpose and
does not fail earlier than expected. Others interpret it as
"bells and whistles", leather gear knobs and an MP3 player.
Mmmm? Sounds like hi-fi more and more ;-)

Regards TT

 

[Phil Allison]

"TT" = illiterate moron

First off Wayne I have intimate knowledge of Quality
Assurance

** ROTFLMAO !!!!!!! What a hoot.

and until recently held SGS certification to
ISO/AS 9002. You have mentioned in your link the ISO 9000
series which is purely a managerial tool for maintaining
quality standards and ensuring consistency of product. It
is not about making or developing a better product it is all
about "consistency". e.g horse manurer could be certified
to ISO 9002

** QA has little to do with actual *quality*.

: Phil's CD player may sound pretty crappy,

It does. It uses 1 shared DAC of dubious "quality".

** Wrong CD player - Terry the Tool !!!!!

Wayne is on about the $30 Tandy one.

The Sony CDP101's DAC is world class.

and these examples tell us
: that quality is not measured by how the item works, as
opposed to whether it works as designed.
:
You're going really well here.

** No - Wayne is completely WRONG.

The QA industry jargon meaning of the word is not the everyday meaning.

BTW the word Quality can mean different things to different
people. I take it as something that is fit for purpose and
does not fail earlier than expected.

** The QA industry jargon meaning - more or less.

Others interpret it as
"bells and whistles", leather gear knobs and an MP3 player.

** Wrong again - that is called "luxury features".

Quality is spelt differently - so it is another word with its own
connotations.

Most dictionaries have it dead right - "means high degree of excellence"
( Pocket Oxford)





................. Phil

 

[quietguy]

Wayne Reid wrote:

In the hi-fi world we may consider the musicality of the equipment, or the
transparency, low measures of distortion etc. to be evidence of quality.

Agreed

Manufacturers on the other hand would be counting the number of units that
test OK at the end of the production line, and the number of after sales
services that need to be provided.

I think this is where you have confused quality with quality control - very
different things

David

 

[TT]

"Ayn Marx" <mdhjwh@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:1104879256.774175.26500@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

TT wrote:
Cars,cars,cars,cars..........interesting how the only off-topic topic
that really gets you boys going is cars. I'm not impressed with any of
your recommendations however & will keep the MG.

Unfortuneately you won't let us discuss naked women so second best will have
to do ;-)

V18 & 400KMH ?

No a W16 - that's 2 V8s joined togather.

Where the hell are the roads that could take such a
thing? Not even the autobahns would be safe. Maybe they make them for
oil shieks to mount in their living rooms to masturbate over. Strange
species the human male.

There is more to the story. At full throttle it uses 500+lph of fuel and
has a 120l fuel tank so it runs out of fuel in 1/4hr. VW did a computer
simulated race between this and a little "Beep Beep" <1L shit box they make
from Berlin to Paris on the Autobahns. The little shit box could do around
120kph and the Bugatti 400kph+ the shit box won by a large margin.
Everytime the Bugatti got wound up to speed it had to stop for fuel and the
little shitbox made it on a tank full. A bit like the Hare and the Tortoise
story really.

Regards TT

 

[Belial]

paul packer wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 06:30:34 +0800, "TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote:



Hyundai started with their Excel and this is what people still remember
today and yes it to was a "shitbox" to.


Well, my mother had an Excel for 7 years and though it was noisy and
rattley she never had any real trouble with it. I read in a car "Best
Buys" once that it's easy to come to believe the Excel is
indestructible, and that was her experience. Not bad for a "shitbox".

Indescructible of course, until you have an accident. I saw a low speed
bumper to bumber 'pile-up' collision at a set of traffic lights - most
of the cars looked fine except for the Excel somewhere in the middle
that looked like it would have to be towed.

Ben

 

[paul packer]

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:17:38 +0800, "TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote:

At full throttle it uses 500+lph of fuel and
has a 120l fuel tank so it runs out of fuel in 1/4hr.

Hmmm. A bit like my car.

 

[paul packer]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 23:27:34 +1100, Belial <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Well, my mother had an Excel for 7 years and though it was noisy and
rattley she never had any real trouble with it. I read in a car "Best
Buys" once that it's easy to come to believe the Excel is
indestructible, and that was her experience. Not bad for a "shitbox".

Indescructible of course, until you have an accident. I saw a low speed
bumper to bumber 'pile-up' collision at a set of traffic lights - most
of the cars looked fine except for the Excel somewhere in the middle
that looked like it would have to be towed.

Ben

Well, if it was in the middle that's to be expected, but in fact
Hyundais are surprisingly solid as small cars go. Check the relative
weights.

 

[robert casey]

and these examples tell us

that quality is not measured by how the item works, as opposed to whether it
works as designed.

Ideally, "quality" is similar to excellence at low cost.
A product that was carefully designed and built to
function at the best level of excellence, and to do that
at low cost. You can make high excellence at high cost,
poor quality at a low price, low quality at a high price
(you won't sell too many items doing that, and if you
are competent this won't happen), and high excellence
at low price (you will sell many, and make it up
in volume).

The OQ guy at the factory that made Phil's friend's
CD player only worried about producing product that
worked as designed. But if the *design* is bad, well
that's another issue. The issue we care about in this
newsgroup. Are there any well designed (electronic
design) amps that have poor quality construction?
Say an excellent circuit design built on crappy
cheap circuit boards. "Rebuild the amps with quality
boards and good caps and resistors and it will sound great".

I'm entering dangerous waters here, but you can all see that deep down, TT
is really in total agreement with Phil by the way he added so much to this
thread.

WR

 

[robert casey]

Maybe they make them for

oil shieks to mount in their living rooms to masturbate over. Strange
species the human male.

Howard Stern calls such cars "penis extensions"....

 

[robert casey]

paul packer wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:17:38 +0800, "TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote:



At full throttle it uses 500+lph of fuel and
has a 120l fuel tank so it runs out of fuel in 1/4hr.


Hmmm. A bit like my car.

"Passes everything 'cept the gas station"......

 

[Ian Mitchell]

"TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:41dbdae5$0$21869$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...

"Ayn Marx" <mdhjwh@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:1104879256.774175.26500@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

TT wrote:
Cars,cars,cars,cars..........interesting how the only off-topic topic
that really gets you boys going is cars. I'm not impressed with any of
your recommendations however & will keep the MG.

Unfortuneately you won't let us discuss naked women so second best will
have
to do ;-)


V18 & 400KMH ?

No a W16 - that's 2 V8s joined togather.

Where the hell are the roads that could take such a
thing? Not even the autobahns would be safe. Maybe they make them for
oil shieks to mount in their living rooms to masturbate over. Strange
species the human male.


There is more to the story. At full throttle it uses 500+lph of fuel and
has a 120l fuel tank so it runs out of fuel in 1/4hr. VW did a computer
simulated race between this and a little "Beep Beep" <1L shit box they
make
from Berlin to Paris on the Autobahns. The little shit box could do
around
120kph and the Bugatti 400kph+ the shit box won by a large margin.
Everytime the Bugatti got wound up to speed it had to stop for fuel and
the
little shitbox made it on a tank full. A bit like the Hare and the
Tortoise
story really.

Regards TT

Must have been using an Apple computer, the distance from Berlin to Paris
is only 879km driving the Bugatti at only a little less than full throttle
would require only 1 fuel stop. At 120kph the sh*t box will take approx 7.5
hrs to complete the journey. At (say) 300kph the Bugatti will do the trip
in approx 3hrs. It doesn't take 4.5hrs to fill a 120ltr tank.

Regards

Ian

 

[Richard Freeman]

"TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:41da8454$0$21876$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...

"quietguy" <david1133@REMOVE-TO-REPLYoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:41D9E15C.B13863AE@REMOVE-TO-REPLYoptusnet.com.au...
While I like Toyotas, and own one, it does seem a bit of a stretch to
rate
them
ahead of Rolls Royce, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Honda etc etc - but if there
are any
Mercedes 6.3 or BMW series (I couldn't afford the insurance on a RR)
owners out
there that want to step up in quality I might be persuaded to do a swap

David


Just a few quick facts.

*Mercedes has just recalled 680,000 cars for brake failures
*Honda has recalled 1,500,000 (yes 1.5 million) cars for trans failures

Of course it does not always follow that a Company that Recalls the most
products is the company with the Lesser quality product. An example is the
John Fluke company who make what are generally regarded as the Best, most
Reliable Multimeters it is possible to purchase (and they are indeed pretty
damn good, reliable multimeters) however when you look at the number of
recalls issued by multimeter manufacturers Fluke have probably recalled more
meters than most (if not all) of the other manufacturers put together.
This is because other companies that make multimeters are actually less
concerned about user safety etc and more about churning out cheap meters
(Fluke are one of the more expensive meters on the Market) rather than
because Fluke make less reliable meters.

BTW Quality is number of vehicles sold divided by the number of failures
as
a percentage and then compared across makes.

Quote "There lies, lies, damn lies and statistics"

That is the Popular quote but IMO statistics are usually only considered
misleading because they generally fail to show the whole picture.....

Regards
Richard Freeman

 

[Richard Freeman]

"TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:41db190d$0$21869$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...

"KLR" <kenreed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:h0flt05i8tgblskcnjjksq8ufuc91htp5f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:57:03 +0800, "TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote:


"KLR" <kenreed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jsbit0dse7nnv2j837srbq4r8rl7pt61ci@4ax.com...
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 11:14:52 +0800, "TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote:


"robert casey" <wa2ise@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4qJBd.11265$qf5.4025@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

------------------Snipped for brevity---------------------------

Hyundai started with their Excel and this is what people still remember
today and yes it to was a "shitbox" to. It's hard to think that someone
like VW that started with the Beetle now makes cars like Audi and the
Bugatti Veyron
http://www.fantasycars.com/1/2001/Bugatti1001/bugatti1001.html the world's
first production Megawatt car 1001Kw with a W16 engine! That's 2 narrow
V,
V8s Siamesed together on a single crankshaft to form a "W" and then they
add 4 superchargers, several camshafts some electronics and a very trick 7
speed electronic controlled manual transmission (that had much of the
development work done here in Australia) make it do 400+kph and sell it
for
approx A$2,000,000.

Two comments spring to mind looking at that Car :
What an ugly car ! you would think for $2,000,000 you would get something
better looking than that.

-----pedants hat on----- ;-(
1001 Horse power is actually around 746,746 Watts .....
-----pedants hat off -----;-)

oops looks like I have been hangng around on newsgroups too often the
pedantry is starting to get to me ;-) I better go back and throw a few Caps
aroUnd .... ThEre i fEEl muCh bEtTeR....

 

[Mr. T]

"Ian Mitchell" <Ian.Mitchell@citec.com.au> wrote in message
news:jOZCd.32$Ud4.4119@news.optus.net.au...

Must have been using an Apple computer, the distance from Berlin to Paris
is only 879km driving the Bugatti at only a little less than full
throttle
would require only 1 fuel stop. At 120kph the sh*t box will take approx
7.5
hrs to complete the journey. At (say) 300kph the Bugatti will do the trip
in approx 3hrs. It doesn't take 4.5hrs to fill a 120ltr tank.

Don't you know you're not supposed to spoil an unsubstantiated story by
introducing facts?

(I wonder also if that shit box can do 879km on one tank of fuel, if it too
was driven at full throttle all the way. Actually I don't wonder, I KNOW it
can't!)

MrT.

 

[Mr. T]

"Richard Freeman" <bogoff@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:343j1uF427h63U1@individual.net...

Quote "There lies, lies, damn lies and statistics"

That is the Popular quote but IMO statistics are usually only considered
misleading because they generally fail to show the whole picture.....

As in this case. ("quality" of car manufacturers)
As in most cases unfortunately.

MrT.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:36:01 GMT, robert casey <wa2ise@ix.netcom.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Maybe they make them for
oil shieks to mount in their living rooms to masturbate over. Strange
species the human male.


Howard Stern calls such cars "penis extensions"....

.... and others call them "leg openers".

You can achieve the same goal with this cheaper remote controlled LO,
but the consequences are much more expensive:
http://www.jillsjokeline.com/remotelegopener.gif


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Ayn Marx]

I would never try to stop you talking about naked anythings but on a
group that doesn't allow for the posting of binary files it would be
rather pointless. I mean how many of you are such gifted poets you'd be
able to make hooters sound like anything other than hooters? Besides a
lot of you boys have no taste whatsoever being turned on by the look of
little black boxes with flashing LED's and speakers that either look
like 1940's radiators or phone booths from a Flash Gordon cartoon.

 

[Ayn Marx]

How long since you had a look at Apple computers? Think you're in for a
shock.

 

[TT]

"Richard Freeman" <bogoff@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:343jfhF420nosU1@individual.net...

"TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:41db190d$0$21869$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...

"KLR" <kenreed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:h0flt05i8tgblskcnjjksq8ufuc91htp5f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:57:03 +0800, "TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote:


"KLR" <kenreed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jsbit0dse7nnv2j837srbq4r8rl7pt61ci@4ax.com...
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 11:14:52 +0800, "TT" <swatter@geo.net.au> wrote:


"robert casey" <wa2ise@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4qJBd.11265$qf5.4025@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

------------------Snipped for brevity---------------------------


Hyundai started with their Excel and this is what people still remember
today and yes it to was a "shitbox" to. It's hard to think that someone
like VW that started with the Beetle now makes cars like Audi and the
Bugatti Veyron
http://www.fantasycars.com/1/2001/Bugatti1001/bugatti1001.html the
world's
first production Megawatt car 1001Kw with a W16 engine! That's 2 narrow
V,
V8s Siamesed together on a single crankshaft to form a "W" and then
they
add 4 superchargers, several camshafts some electronics and a very trick
7
speed electronic controlled manual transmission (that had much of the
development work done here in Australia) make it do 400+kph and sell it
for
approx A$2,000,000.

Two comments spring to mind looking at that Car :
What an ugly car ! you would think for $2,000,000 you would get something
better looking than that.

-----pedants hat on----- ;-(
1001 Horse power is actually around 746,746 Watts .....
-----pedants hat off -----;-)

oops looks like I have been hangng around on newsgroups too often the
pedantry is starting to get to me ;-) I better go back and throw a few
Caps
aroUnd .... ThEre i fEEl muCh bEtTeR....

Hi Richard,

It would appear I quoted some incorrect figures. You are quite correct it
is 1001hp not 1001kw as the literature I had is (now) obviously wrong.

Regardless there is sufficient power (however you wish to measure it) for
most people's needs. ;-)

And yes it is "fugly".

Regards TT

 

[paul packer]

On 6 Jan 2005 02:27:39 -0800, "Ayn Marx" <mdhjwh@iprimus.com.au>
wrote:

Besides a
lot of you boys have no taste whatsoever being turned on by the look of
little black boxes with flashing LED's and speakers that either look
like 1940's radiators or phone booths from a Flash Gordon cartoon.

Yes, well...what do you call good taste?