OT: CEO responses to Covid-19

[Winfield Hill]

Bill Sloman wrote...

Tom Gardner wrote:

The most such measures can do is *delay* the spread
of infection; they are unlikely to *reduce* it.

If they delay it long enough, somebody will have come
up with an effective vaccine.

I don't have much hope for the vaccine approach. To work
well a huge fraction of the population must be vaccinated.
That's after laborious testing, approval and manufacturing.

A more hopeful path is the rapid development of custom-
designed highly-effective Covid-19 therapeutics. These
are easier to create and get approved, and much smaller
quantities are required to squash the death rate, even
for the very old and compromised. A number of companies
and organizations are making good progress on this.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[George Herold]

On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 10:17:54 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.
Walmart said their stores are cleaned daily, with
sanitizing solutions. Subway said they're cleaning
most-touched surfaces once per hour. A local pub-
restaurant, Tavern in the Square, uses disinfectant
wipes to clean and sanitize all tables, phones, POS-
screens, check presenters, booths, chairs and menus
in between guest's seatings. Plus five other items.


--
Thanks,
- Win

Sam Harris had a nice talk with Amesh Adalji.

https://samharris.org/podcast/

Where he says that hand stuff is fine, but that the virus is mostly
spread by water droplets we breath out... say it don't spray it...
with a range of a few meters. Which I guess, then face masks would help
you from not spreading it... by stopping some of your spray.

He also predicts that in ~ 1 year 30-50% of the US will have had the
virus. And we should be preparing for the medical overload.

George H.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Mikko OH2HVJ wrote...

... proper washing is a surprisingly long and boring effort.
And the next thing our teenagers do after washing is to get
the phone back to same hands..

That brings up the issue of decontaminating our phones.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Winfield Hill]

dcaster@krl.org wrote...

On Friday, March 13, 2020, Robert Baer wrote:

...and if you do, you are making antibodies for future protection.

There was a blurb on TV about taking blood from people who
have survived having the virus and making plasma. Then
using the plasma to introduce antibodies in people who have
not had the virus.

_It may be approved in as little as 4 weeks ( or not approved ).

Yes, they've been doing that aggressively in China to treat
Covid-19, for some time now. Haven't seen any data though.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:41:27 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

...and if you do, you are making antibodies for future protection.

There was a blurb on TV about taking blood from people who have survived having the virus and making plasma. Then using the plasma to introduce antibodies in people who have not had the virus.

_It may be approved in as little as 4 weeks ( or not approved ).

Dan

 

"dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> wrote in
news:90ffa409-4aac-496f-8c18-2159995131e7@googlegroups.com:

On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:41:27 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:



...and if you do, you are making antibodies for future
protection.

There was a blurb on TV about taking blood from people who have
survived having the virus and making plasma. Then using the
plasma to introduce antibodies in people who have not had the
virus.

_It may be approved in as little as 4 weeks ( or not approved ).

Dan

And I mentioned it in a post over a week ago.

Both young AND elder survivors should be looked at to see if they
merely trudged through it or if they actually had an internal immune
response mechanism that defeated it.

 

Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:r4g1sh01g3e@drn.newsguy.com:

Mikko OH2HVJ wrote...

... proper washing is a surprisingly long and boring effort.
And the next thing our teenagers do after washing is to get
the phone back to same hands..

That brings up the issue of decontaminating our phones.

Just don't touch it to your FACE!

Hahahah...

I only worry about Trump voters. Having voted for that total
retard without vetting him tells me that there are also other
elements of their lives where they FAIL to examine the situation.
Knowing that Trump was a BAD, WRONG choice was easy for those of us
with even a modicum of brains. You Trumpanzee totally fooled by a
master total idiots FAILED in a major way. Sad that we ALL have to
PAY for your stupidity.

Seems like a touch... A dirty little touch..

Seems like a touch... too much... too much...

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 13/03/20 13:54, David Brown wrote:

And as you noted, an alcohol wipe is of little use - you want 30 seconds
of wet alcohol to deactivate the virus. (If the virus is protected by
sneeze droplets or other mucus, it takes minutes - but one would hope it
is obvious that you should at least wipe globs of phlegm from your hands
if you can't wash them.) Washing is more effective than alcohol
sanitizers for your hands, when possible.

The principal advantage of alcohol sanitisers is
that they can be anywhere convenient, whereas
soap-based cleaning has to be near a sink.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-03-13 09:34, George Herold wrote:

On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 10:17:54 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.
Walmart said their stores are cleaned daily, with
sanitizing solutions. Subway said they're cleaning
most-touched surfaces once per hour. A local pub-
restaurant, Tavern in the Square, uses disinfectant
wipes to clean and sanitize all tables, phones, POS-
screens, check presenters, booths, chairs and menus
in between guest's seatings. Plus five other items.


--
Thanks,
- Win

Sam Harris had a nice talk with Amesh Adalji.

https://samharris.org/podcast/

Where he says that hand stuff is fine, but that the virus is mostly
spread by water droplets we breath out... say it don't spray it...
with a range of a few meters. Which I guess, then face masks would help
you from not spreading it... by stopping some of your spray.

He also predicts that in ~ 1 year 30-50% of the US will have had the
virus. And we should be preparing for the medical overload.

George H.

IIRC about ten years ago it was discovered that all endemic 'flu bugs
are descended from the 1918 'flu.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:30:07 AM UTC+11, Winfield Hill wrote:

Mikko OH2HVJ wrote...

... proper washing is a surprisingly long and boring effort.
And the next thing our teenagers do after washing is to get
the phone back to same hands..

That brings up the issue of decontaminating our phones.

Douglas Adams did have a least one end-of-the-world scenario where the supposedly intelligent part of the population killed themselves off by deporting all the telephone sanitising staff.

His opinions should be mostly taken as gospel, but that particular one probably wasn't intended to be taken seriously.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[David Brown]

On 13/03/2020 06:39, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:39:58 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:
Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.
Walmart said their stores are cleaned daily, with
sanitizing solutions. Subway said they're cleaning
most-touched surfaces once per hour. A local pub-
restaurant, Tavern in the Square, uses disinfectant
wipes to clean and sanitize all tables, phones, POS-
screens, check presenters, booths, chairs and menus
in between guest's seatings. Plus five other items.


"Sanitizers" supposedly kill up to 95% germs.

Any figures like that are meaningless. In particular, there is no
indication as to whether it is is 95% of types of pathogen, 95% of
quantity, or how they decide which set of pathogens should be counted.

Alcohol is effective against all bacteria (but not bacteria spores),
many viruses and some fungi, as well as (AFAIK) almost all parasites.
For some kinds of viruses and fungi, it is basically useless. And to be
effective, it needs a high concentration (70% - 90%), and it needs time
to work. 30 seconds is a reasonable rule of thumb, but it is
exponential decay - a certain fraction of the pathogens are disabled
each second.

Non-alcoholic sanitizers are usually much less effective (with the ones
that are somewhat effective often having more side-effects).

1) What about the remaining 5%? THOSE are obviously dangerous and
might mutate to worse.

No, they are not "obviously dangerous" - they are obviously less
affected by the sanitizer. Nothing more, nothing less.

2) I understand that what they use is triclosan, which has the
ability to disrupt hormones and contribution to a rise in resistant
strains of bacteria.

Triclosan is often used in non-alcoholic sanitizers. It is effective
against many bacteria and fungi, but not all, and not against viruses or
most other pathogens. It is suspected (but not confirmed) to have
adverse effects on health and hormones. There is no evidence that it
has lead to increased resistant bacteria - but it can't be ruled out.

Better to use alcohol wipes, best to use the common old-fashioned
soap and water!

Soap and water, used properly, is the best when possible. Alcohol wipes
are of questionable value in many cases - alcohol sanitizers are a
better choice (when you can't wash properly).

The "sanitizers" you mention containing triclosan are anti-bacterial, not anti-viral and do little for either.

Alcohol is also not particularly useful unless used appropriately
which most people, including hospital workers, fail to do. It is
used in places where frequent hand cleaning is required because it is
less drying or irritating to skin than soap. But for most of us,
soap and water are much more effective at killing/removing all germs
including both bacteria and viruses. In fact, soap and water are
particularly good at killing viruses by dissolving the lipid layers
that hold the virus together, essentially dissolving them into
particles.

Not all virus types have much in the way of lipids in their shells,
which is why alcohol does not affect some viruses. Still, a major
effect of soap and water is physically removing the pathogens from your
hands, and that works regardless of any resistance to soaps.

I have read nothing about triclosan use resulting in resistant
strains of bacteria. If it did, they would only be resistant to
triclosan which would not be a great loss.

Indeed.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:06:02 AM UTC+11, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

"dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> wrote in
news:90ffa409-4aac-496f-8c18-2159995131e7@googlegroups.com:

On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:41:27 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:



...and if you do, you are making antibodies for future
protection.

There was a blurb on TV about taking blood from people who have
survived having the virus and making plasma. Then using the
plasma to introduce antibodies in people who have not had the
virus.

_It may be approved in as little as 4 weeks ( or not approved ).

And I mentioned it in a post over a week ago.

Both young AND elder survivors should be looked at to see if they
merely trudged through it or if they actually had an internal immune
response mechanism that defeated it.

If you recover from a viral infection, it was your internal immune response system that defeated it.

Left to their own devices, each virus infects more cells, each of which get turned into a virus factory which run until there's noting left to turn into new virus particles, and the cell falls apart, releasing loads of new viral particles.

If you've recovered, your blood contains virus-specific antibodies - more if your immune system is young and healthy. If it doesn't, you weren't infected with that particular virus.

There's no "trudge-through" option.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[David Brown]

On 13/03/2020 06:45, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:46:28 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

* Excuse me, but doesn't it spread in the air?

You are excused.

While droplets containing the virus can be spread through the air,
the means of picking up the droplets is most often by touching
something and then touching your mucous membranes, eyes, nose, mouth.
The droplets can remain airborne for some time, but on a surface the
virus can live for many hours or even some days. Droplets aren't
going to remain airborne nearly that long.

There isn't much you can do about breathing. But you can wash your
hands and try not to touch your face until you have washed. There
are no guarantees in life, but you can play the smart odds.

That is all good advice.

It applies equally to normal flu, and most other viruses - the path is
mainly cough/sneeze droplets to surface, then surface to face.

It's worth noting that most people don't know how to wash their hands
properly to minimise the risk of giving or getting an infection.

And as you noted, an alcohol wipe is of little use - you want 30 seconds
of wet alcohol to deactivate the virus. (If the virus is protected by
sneeze droplets or other mucus, it takes minutes - but one would hope it
is obvious that you should at least wipe globs of phlegm from your hands
if you can't wash them.) Washing is more effective than alcohol
sanitizers for your hands, when possible.

Disinfectant on surfaces is fine.


(Some viruses, such as noroviruses, are almost completely unaffected by
alcohol, so washing is good general practice.)

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:41:17 AM UTC+11, Winfield Hill wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote...

Tom Gardner wrote:

The most such measures can do is *delay* the spread
of infection; they are unlikely to *reduce* it.

If they delay it long enough, somebody will have come
up with an effective vaccine.

I don't have much hope for the vaccine approach. To work
well a huge fraction of the population must be vaccinated.
That's after laborious testing, approval and manufacturing.

A more hopeful path is the rapid development of custom-
designed highly-effective Covid-19 therapeutics. These
are easier to create and get approved, and much smaller
quantities are required to squash the death rate, even
for the very old and compromised. A number of companies
and organizations are making good progress on this.

And they'll come with a compact nuclear fusion generator to keep them at exactly the right temperature before administration.

The people who claim to be hopeful about the rapid development of an entirely new therapy also tend to be hopeful about quite a number of other promising investment opportunities.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-03-13 09:41, Winfield Hill wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote...

Tom Gardner wrote:

The most such measures can do is *delay* the spread
of infection; they are unlikely to *reduce* it.

If they delay it long enough, somebody will have come
up with an effective vaccine.

I don't have much hope for the vaccine approach. To work
well a huge fraction of the population must be vaccinated.
That's after laborious testing, approval and manufacturing.

A more hopeful path is the rapid development of custom-
designed highly-effective Covid-19 therapeutics. These
are easier to create and get approved, and much smaller
quantities are required to squash the death rate, even
for the very old and compromised. A number of companies
and organizations are making good progress on this.

Something to stop the cytokine storm would be very useful too.

There's a useful WHO document on hand hygiene at
<https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/70126/WHO_IER_PSP_2009.07_eng.pdf>

Turns out that most people miss some spots on their thumbs and the back
of their hands, even doing the 20-second thing.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[George Herold]

On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 10:24:51 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2020-03-13 09:34, George Herold wrote:
On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 10:17:54 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.
Walmart said their stores are cleaned daily, with
sanitizing solutions. Subway said they're cleaning
most-touched surfaces once per hour. A local pub-
restaurant, Tavern in the Square, uses disinfectant
wipes to clean and sanitize all tables, phones, POS-
screens, check presenters, booths, chairs and menus
in between guest's seatings. Plus five other items.


--
Thanks,
- Win

Sam Harris had a nice talk with Amesh Adalji.

https://samharris.org/podcast/

Where he says that hand stuff is fine, but that the virus is mostly
spread by water droplets we breath out... say it don't spray it...
with a range of a few meters. Which I guess, then face masks would help
you from not spreading it... by stopping some of your spray.

He also predicts that in ~ 1 year 30-50% of the US will have had the
virus. And we should be preparing for the medical overload.

George H.


IIRC about ten years ago it was discovered that all endemic 'flu bugs
are descended from the 1918 'flu.

Hmm I have no idea. I'm guessing all the infectious disease books
on amazon are 'sold out' along with the hand sanitizers. :^)

The experts mostly talk about mutations from some animal virus.

Amesh Adalja (I mis-spelled his name above) is not as worried as many.
~5-10 times worse than 'normal' flu. (which could still be
~500,000 dead worse case)

I get the message from the infectious disease guys that,
"We've been warning you of this."
And also... "we need more data".

George H.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[David Brown]

On 13/03/2020 14:41, Winfield Hill wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote...

Tom Gardner wrote:

The most such measures can do is *delay* the spread
of infection; they are unlikely to *reduce* it.

If they delay it long enough, somebody will have come
up with an effective vaccine.

I don't have much hope for the vaccine approach. To work
well a huge fraction of the population must be vaccinated.
That's after laborious testing, approval and manufacturing.

A good vaccine is not likely to be available until a fair proportion of
people have already had the virus. But that's okay - it will still be
very useful. As the number of infected people increases, those in the
high risk category are going to have to be isolated (rather than people
with the virus being isolated), and they are basically going to be stuck
there until a vaccine is available or almost everyone else has had the
virus.

A more hopeful path is the rapid development of custom-
designed highly-effective Covid-19 therapeutics. These
are easier to create and get approved, and much smaller
quantities are required to squash the death rate, even
for the very old and compromised. A number of companies
and organizations are making good progress on this.

I am not convinced that therapeutics are more realistic (they have not
been very successful for flu or many other viruses). But it is
certainly important to work on them, in parallel with vaccines.

 

On 12 Mar 2020 19:16:05 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.
Walmart said their stores are cleaned daily, with
sanitizing solutions. Subway said they're cleaning
most-touched surfaces once per hour. A local pub-
restaurant, Tavern in the Square, uses disinfectant
wipes to clean and sanitize all tables, phones, POS-
screens, check presenters, booths, chairs and menus
in between guest's seatings. Plus five other items.

We have signs up, "if you are sick, stay home."

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/health/coronavirus-facts-vs-panic

So far, this is a modest flu that has been hyper-hyped by the internet
and politics. Possibly many people have had it and barely noticed.

Apparently kids don't get this. So why are we closing schools?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 10:17:54 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.
Walmart said their stores are cleaned daily, with
sanitizing solutions. Subway said they're cleaning
most-touched surfaces once per hour. A local pub-
restaurant, Tavern in the Square, uses disinfectant
wipes to clean and sanitize all tables, phones, POS-
screens, check presenters, booths, chairs and menus
in between guest's seatings. Plus five other items.


--
Thanks,
- Win

Anybody who visits any of those places deserves what they get. Those dumps don't meet basic hygienic standards even without a pandemic. The employees are not trained properly or more likely untrainable. From what I could observe of one cleaning of seating in a transit station, all the braindead cleaner did was ensure every single surface was equally cross-contaminated from every other. A little spritz of disinfectant followed by a quick weak wipe doesn't clean anything.
Bottom line is you're own your own with this one. The medical establishment can't do much beyond treat your symptoms, and it will be this way for the better part of a year minimum.
All of this is a small price to pay for keeping those wildlife meat markets open in China. The corrupt and incredibly incompetent Chinese government, who make Trump look like a genius, wanted to keep them open because it's nearly $10B annual industry. The idiots will be out a trillion $ before this is over. And the history of these dumps is riddled with epidemic outbreaks of lethal zoonoses, so it's not like this is any surprise.

 

On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 08:25:09 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<ggherold@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 10:52:01 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On 12 Mar 2020 19:16:05 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.
Walmart said their stores are cleaned daily, with
sanitizing solutions. Subway said they're cleaning
most-touched surfaces once per hour. A local pub-
restaurant, Tavern in the Square, uses disinfectant
wipes to clean and sanitize all tables, phones, POS-
screens, check presenters, booths, chairs and menus
in between guest's seatings. Plus five other items.

We have signs up, "if you are sick, stay home."

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/health/coronavirus-facts-vs-panic

So far, this is a modest flu that has been hyper-hyped by the internet
and politics. Possibly many people have had it and barely noticed.

Apparently kids don't get this. So why are we closing schools?
Hmm I'd recommend the Sam Harris podcast with Amesh A. But Sam is a bit
of a Trump basher.. so you may not like it in that regard.
(It does stink that absolutely everything is political these days.)

Not only is everything political, but we now have many more news
sources than we used to have, but all of them obsess simultaneously
about the same single issues.

This corona thing may be another 1918 killer pandemic, but it may be
just another seasonal flu that's being hyped.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"