OT: Bush Thugs Rough Up Grieving Mother of KIA

Guy Macon · Sep 26, 2004

John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> says...

put all the data in an envelope and send it to yourself
(or your lawyer if you have one) by Recorded Delivery, so that it gets
an official, independent date-stamp. DON'T OPEN THE ENVELOPE!

Better yet, just send an envelope full of blank paper with the flap
held closed by strips made of the sticky portion of post-it notes.
That way you can put your data in years later and "prove" that you
put it in earlier.

The opposing attorney will accuse you of doing that whether you
actually do it or not...

Marco Ferra · Sep 26, 2004

Yes I'll follow the HD44780 data sheet precisely.
Thank you very much for enlighten me.

Marco

Rich Webb · Sep 26, 2004

On 26 Sep 2004 13:45:07 GMT, chrisgibbogibson@aol.com (ChrisGibboGibson)
wrote:

[snip...snip...]

I don't have much faith in the patent system, it seems rather pointless to me
with the man with the fattest wallet winning the court battle. If I was to
publish details on the net, would that qualify as prior art/publication such
that if any one else tried to patent the idea, then that application could be
refused (so we can carry on making them) or at least, the patent would be
cancelled (or whatever the correct phrase is) should an infridgement case be
started.

Publishing on the internet is awfully ephemeral. How do you establish
(in a legal sense) exactly who published what and when? At the very
least, write up a complete description of what you've done and have it
witnessed and notarized. Better yet, talk to an attorney.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Fred Bloggs · Sep 26, 2004

Jim Yanik wrote:

Excuse me,but we were discussing a candidate for the office of President.
What you or others allege about Mr.Ashcroft is not relevant to this
discussion.Nice try at shifting the subject,though.

What Kerry did;illegally meeting with N.Vietnamese officials in Paris while
still an officer in the Naval Reserves,was and still is treason.
(aiding and abetting the enemy)

At the very least,he should not be in public office.

You have already been exposed as a worthless idiot on several counts,
and who the hell are you to tell us what should and should not be. Go
away, damned brain-damaged senseless idiot.

Rich Grise · Sep 26, 2004

On Sunday 26 September 2004 06:45 am, ChrisGibboGibson did deign to grace us
with the following:

If I patent the idea then I have to tell everyone how it works, if I go
the route of publishing it here, then the same applies, if I do nothing,
then I accept there are far cleverer people than me out there who could
probably work out how it works in a matter of days once they saw that the
idea does actually work (I suspect other people have thought of it in the
past but dismissed it).

Ideas ?

Input ?

You've noted that a patent is nothing but a stick that the guy with

the patent can use in court, and the money wins.

So publish it, sell them as fast as you can, take the money, and let
the chips fall where they may.

Good Luck!

BTW, I've got a couple of inventions like that, that need investors. They're
so simple that they can't be patented, but there's nothing like them on the
market yet.

Cheers!
Rich

Charles W. Johson Jr. · Sep 26, 2004

"Colin Dawson" <nospam@cjdawson.com> wrote in message
news:cj6q40$1kl$1@titan.btinternet.com...

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ch9dl0950jntid20e0udompkfggakf3g3i@4ax.com...
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:22:59 +0000 (UTC), "Colin Dawson"
nospam@cjdawson.com> wrote:

I think everyone here has managed to completly miss the point of what I'm
asking.

---
I don't think so. What's happened is that you have fixed in your mind
what you want to hear and you don't understand what you've being told
so you've concluded that since it doesn't sound like what you want to
hear it must be bogus.
---

Maybe your right. I have locked my mind on a possible solution and refuse
to accept "No" for an answer. I'm a computer programmer by trade and
find that other developers (and me sometimes) say that something cannot be
done, only to find that with a little more thought and creativity, that
there is a way (all-be-it complicated) to accomplish whatever is was.

I do see electronics as being any different to a computer program, after
all they're not that unrelated. A program is, to put it simplistically is
basically a sequence of flipping switches. (ok ok, that's probably too
simple)

There is enough voltage in my setup to power everything that I want to
power. The cables are thick enough to power everything that I want to
power, and then some. (I can easily double the number of devices
without
ricking overrating the stuff that I've used. I've done it)

---
If you increase the number of devices demanding current from the
battery it won't "overrate" the rest of the stuff, all it'll do is
reduce the amount of time until the battery voltage drops to some
arbitrary point.
---

oops, sorry. I should have been talking Amperage, the leads that run from
the battery can carry about 40Amps (Not sure the exact thickness, but it's
the stuff that's used in model power boats to connect from the battery to
speed controller. I think it's about 4 or 5 mm thick)

At the moment my "Battery Monitor" is actually a "VoltMeter". I don't
want
a VoltMeter connected to the battery, as is doesn't tell me when it's
time
to start thinking about recharging the battery.

---
Yes, it will. There is a voltage below which current shouldn't be
taken from the battery, and once the battery voltage decays to that
point it should either be disconnected or recharged.
---

OK, I need to get more litteral about this. At the moment, the circuit
that I'm using measures a voltage range between 11v and 14v. I know from
previous experiments that I want to recharge my battery when the voltage
drops to about 11v with no load (other than the monitor circuit). Also I
know that as I increase the load the voltage that the monitor reads is
forced lower by .x of a volt depending on the load. The higher the load,
the higher that this .x is. At the moment my circuit, when under high
load, shows the 11V reading pretty quickly when the battery is under a
high load. When I shut off the load, the voltage returns to a higher value
and gives it's true reading, which match the chemical thingy in the
battery (which I can't see in normal use as it's not illuminated, and shut
in the boot of a car)

What I want is a "Battery Level Meter". Just because I start pulling
10A
from my battery doesn't mean that it's capacity suddenly drops, as a
VoltMeter shows.

---
Yes, it does. If you look at the discharge curves for _any_ battery
you'll find that as the rate of discharge increases (as more current
is drawn from it) the smaller its capacity becomes. The capacity of
most batteries (C) is rated in Ampere Hours, but full capacity can
only be achieved if some fraction of the one hour rate of current is
drawn, ususally C/10 or C/20 for lead-acid batteries. That means that
if you have a fully charged 100AH battery rated for C/10 and you draw
10 amperes from it, its voltage will decay to the cutoff point (say
10V for a 12V lead-acid battery) in 10 hours. However, if you take
100A from it its voltage will decay to 10V in substantially less than
1 hour. Also, since the battery's internal impedance will cause its
voltage to fall more and more as more and more current is drawn from
it, that will futher shorten the time until it reaches cutoff.
---

Let me put this another way. Say I've been using my battery for a while.
I will consider it completely flat when is reaches 10v either under load
or not. At the moment, my battery is reading 11.3v and is under load. My
circurit, is showing 11.3v. When I turn off the load, the battery voltage
immediatly jumps up to 11.7v. When I turn on the load it slowly returns
to 11.3v. One of the devices that I'm using is a laptop. When the hard
drive is working, the current rapidly changes as the drive heads move
across the disk and data is read/written. This turns the LEDS on the
circuit into quite a good light show, which is really annoying and I want
to stop it doing that.

I don't care what the Voltage of the battery is.

---
Well, you should, and that's precisely why I said that you want to
hear what you want to hear, not what's at variance with what you
believe.
---

hmm, I shouldn't have said that. It's why I built the circuit in the
first place. What I want is a steady reading, not one that makes the
LED's look like a reject from a bad SCI FI Film.

snipped
(at this point Colin has thrown his teddy out of the cot)

Get the point now?

---
That you're frustrated because of your ignorance _and_ spoiled _and_
petulant? It's starting to sink in...

I asked for that.

---

Won't anyone give me a straight answer on how the hell to build an
Ammeter
circuit, so that I can get the "BATTERY LEVEL MONITOR" to give a correct
reading?

---
Yowzah boss!!!

+-------------------+
/ |
A--+ [FUSE]
| |
[AMMETER] +----------+
| | |
+-----------+ [DRIVE] [VOLTMETER]
| | | |
[BATTERY] [VOLTMETER] +----------+
| | |
B--+-----------+ |
\ |
+-------------------+

Everything else connects (just like the drive with its own set of
wires and its own fuse) to points A and B. That is, directly to the
ammeter and the battery.

But... That's still only going to give you voltage readings and
current readings, so you'll still have to disconnect loads depending
on battery voltage.

Or maybe you want something to let you know how much charge is still
in the battery or how much time you've got left until it goes flat? A
battery "gas gauge" kind of thingy?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to achieve.

Well, boss, if that's what yuh wants, just ax fo' it an' ahm sho' some
of us ol' niggers'll jump at the chance to serve yuh.

--
John Fields

Colin Dawson
www.cjdawson.com

Colin
What you want is called an Integrator, basicly it'll be a lowpass
filter, to filter the spikes caused by powering on and off.

Charles

Kevin Aylward · Sep 26, 2004

Rich Grise wrote:

On Saturday 25 September 2004 11:57 pm, Kevin Aylward did deign to
grace us with the following:

How about providing a mechanism that achieves it?

I have. Repeatedly.

No you haven't.

You have made many claims about some ethereal substance and other such
vacuous stuff. No evidence has yet been presented.

You are programmed to deny/reject it, since it's
bigger than your brain. It's bigger than my brain. It's bigger than
all of our brains put together, and therefore,

So, if it is this big, you should be able to produce it.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

Kevin Aylward · Sep 26, 2004

YD wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:45:16 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

YD wrote:
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:05:02 +0100, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelati ons@hotmail.com> wrote (in
414DF9C1.EB11CBED@hotmail.com&gt about 'Ping Kevin Aylward - re
your "scientific paper"', on Sun, 19 Sep 2004:

Just leaves k for kilo as the odd one out. I suspect that's simply
historical.

Yes, it is.

Just piggy-backing. As of last count I have 1433 unreads in this
group, and 546 of those belong to this thread. This doesn't include
reads and expired, this silly thing must be humongous. Trying to set
some kind of record?

It only goes to show that memes about papers on memes like to get
replicated.

Looks more like it's the papers on memes that end up replicated.

But that is not what occurred here. The papers haven't been replicated
much, maybe about ten times, the number of posters looking at them. This
thread has 500 posts, so my first statement is more accurate. Thats why
I wrote it that way. Specifically.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

Guy Macon · Sep 26, 2004

Rich Grise <null@example.net> says...

BTW, I've got a couple of inventions like that, that need investors. They're
so simple that they can't be patented, but there's nothing like them on the
market yet.

I have recently found myself in a position where I have the authority
to choose what products get manufactured and sold. Let's talk about
your ideas over lunch.

John Woodgate · Sep 26, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett <no@spam.com> wrote
(in <4156F195.4DFA@spam.com&gt

about 'Patents, Prior Art, Publication and
Usenet.', on Sun, 26 Sep 2004:

Do not send yourself a registered letter. This
doesn't work.

Why not? Because USPS will fail to deliver it?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Jim Thompson · Sep 26, 2004

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:44:14 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett <no@spam.com> wrote
(in <4156F195.4DFA@spam.com&gt about 'Patents, Prior Art, Publication and
Usenet.', on Sun, 26 Sep 2004:

Do not send yourself a registered letter. This
doesn't work.

Why not? Because USPS will fail to deliver it?

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Colin Dawson · Sep 26, 2004

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ch9dl0950jntid20e0udompkfggakf3g3i@4ax.com...

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:22:59 +0000 (UTC), "Colin Dawson"
nospam@cjdawson.com> wrote:

I think everyone here has managed to completly miss the point of what I'm
asking.

---
I don't think so. What's happened is that you have fixed in your mind
what you want to hear and you don't understand what you've being told
so you've concluded that since it doesn't sound like what you want to
hear it must be bogus.
---

Maybe your right. I have locked my mind on a possible solution and refuse
to accept "No" for an answer. I'm a computer programmer by trade and find
that other developers (and me sometimes) say that something cannot be done,
only to find that with a little more thought and creativity, that there is a
way (all-be-it complicated) to accomplish whatever is was.

I do see electronics as being any different to a computer program, after all
they're not that unrelated. A program is, to put it simplistically is
basically a sequence of flipping switches. (ok ok, that's probably too
simple)

There is enough voltage in my setup to power everything that I want to
power. The cables are thick enough to power everything that I want to
power, and then some. (I can easily double the number of devices without
ricking overrating the stuff that I've used. I've done it)

---
If you increase the number of devices demanding current from the
battery it won't "overrate" the rest of the stuff, all it'll do is
reduce the amount of time until the battery voltage drops to some
arbitrary point.
---

oops, sorry. I should have been talking Amperage, the leads that run from
the battery can carry about 40Amps (Not sure the exact thickness, but it's
the stuff that's used in model power boats to connect from the battery to
speed controller. I think it's about 4 or 5 mm thick)

At the moment my "Battery Monitor" is actually a "VoltMeter". I don't
want
a VoltMeter connected to the battery, as is doesn't tell me when it's time
to start thinking about recharging the battery.

---
Yes, it will. There is a voltage below which current shouldn't be
taken from the battery, and once the battery voltage decays to that
point it should either be disconnected or recharged.
---

OK, I need to get more litteral about this. At the moment, the circuit
that I'm using measures a voltage range between 11v and 14v. I know from
previous experiments that I want to recharge my battery when the voltage
drops to about 11v with no load (other than the monitor circuit). Also I
know that as I increase the load the voltage that the monitor reads is
forced lower by .x of a volt depending on the load. The higher the load,
the higher that this .x is. At the moment my circuit, when under high load,
shows the 11V reading pretty quickly when the battery is under a high load.
When I shut off the load, the voltage returns to a higher value and gives
it's true reading, which match the chemical thingy in the battery (which I
can't see in normal use as it's not illuminated, and shut in the boot of a
car)

What I want is a "Battery Level Meter". Just because I start pulling 10A
from my battery doesn't mean that it's capacity suddenly drops, as a
VoltMeter shows.

---
Yes, it does. If you look at the discharge curves for _any_ battery
you'll find that as the rate of discharge increases (as more current
is drawn from it) the smaller its capacity becomes. The capacity of
most batteries (C) is rated in Ampere Hours, but full capacity can
only be achieved if some fraction of the one hour rate of current is
drawn, ususally C/10 or C/20 for lead-acid batteries. That means that
if you have a fully charged 100AH battery rated for C/10 and you draw
10 amperes from it, its voltage will decay to the cutoff point (say
10V for a 12V lead-acid battery) in 10 hours. However, if you take
100A from it its voltage will decay to 10V in substantially less than
1 hour. Also, since the battery's internal impedance will cause its
voltage to fall more and more as more and more current is drawn from
it, that will futher shorten the time until it reaches cutoff.
---

Let me put this another way. Say I've been using my battery for a while. I
will consider it completely flat when is reaches 10v either under load or
not. At the moment, my battery is reading 11.3v and is under load. My
circurit, is showing 11.3v. When I turn off the load, the battery voltage
immediatly jumps up to 11.7v. When I turn on the load it slowly returns to
11.3v. One of the devices that I'm using is a laptop. When the hard drive
is working, the current rapidly changes as the drive heads move across the
disk and data is read/written. This turns the LEDS on the circuit into
quite a good light show, which is really annoying and I want to stop it
doing that.

I don't care what the Voltage of the battery is.

---
Well, you should, and that's precisely why I said that you want to
hear what you want to hear, not what's at variance with what you
believe.
---

hmm, I shouldn't have said that. It's why I built the circuit in the first
place. What I want is a steady reading, not one that makes the LED's look
like a reject from a bad SCI FI Film.

<snipped>

(at this point Colin has thrown his teddy out of the cot)

Get the point now?

---
That you're frustrated because of your ignorance _and_ spoiled _and_
petulant? It's starting to sink in...

I asked for that.

---

Won't anyone give me a straight answer on how the hell to build an Ammeter
circuit, so that I can get the "BATTERY LEVEL MONITOR" to give a correct
reading?

---
Yowzah boss!!!

+-------------------+
/ |
A--+ [FUSE]
| |
[AMMETER] +----------+
| | |
+-----------+ [DRIVE] [VOLTMETER]
| | | |
[BATTERY] [VOLTMETER] +----------+
| | |
B--+-----------+ |
\ |
+-------------------+

Everything else connects (just like the drive with its own set of
wires and its own fuse) to points A and B. That is, directly to the
ammeter and the battery.

But... That's still only going to give you voltage readings and
current readings, so you'll still have to disconnect loads depending
on battery voltage.

Or maybe you want something to let you know how much charge is still
in the battery or how much time you've got left until it goes flat? A
battery "gas gauge" kind of thingy?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to achieve.

Well, boss, if that's what yuh wants, just ax fo' it an' ahm sho' some
of us ol' niggers'll jump at the chance to serve yuh.

--
John Fields

Colin Dawson
www.cjdawson.com

Ken Smith · Sep 26, 2004

In article <4156253A.9090106@nospam.com>,
Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
[...]

Yannik is demented.

I don't think he is demented, just insane on this issue. By his own
declared standard, GWB is not suited to be president and yet he intends to
vote for him.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

Ken Smith · Sep 26, 2004

In article <20040926114853.07480.00001257@mb-m18.aol.com>,
Rolavine <rolavine@aol.com> wrote:

From: Jim Yanik jyanik@abuse.gov

If someone committed treason,falsified documents,and lied to Congress 30
years ago,you would want that person to become President of the US today?

Bush may have commited treason when we invaded Iraq.

If you go with the issue of the outing of the CIA person, you can leave
the "may" out.

I don't think that anyone will dispute that outting the CIA person was
treason.

The report from Novak was that it was someone in the Bush administration
that did it. I believe it was Ashcroft, but lets assume it wasn't.

Part of Ashcroft's job is to find the person who commited treason. He has
instead opposed all external efforts and by evidence of the lack of
results, made no substantial effort of his own. if you claim he has made
an effort, you then have to conclude that he is a complete moron. This
means that Ashcroft is either (A) an accomplice or (B) a moron. If it is
(A), this makes Ashcroft a traitor too.

Bush is keeping Ashcroft in his job. He is either knowingly employing a
traitor or a moron. Obviously putting a traitor in that high office is
treason. If you knowingly place a moron in charge of vital national
interests, you are also aiding the enemy again making Bush a traitor.

There is a good chance that Bush will end up on trial for this in the future,
and I'm not kidding!

Don't bet on that. Nixon was allowed to walk away. With about half the
nation knowing they voted for the disgraced president, a pardon lets the
subject die quickly. Remember the US is under an external threat. This
will take priority in the Kerry[1] administration.

[1] Assuming Kerry is elected. If not it will be Hillary.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

Jim Yanik · Sep 26, 2004

kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote in
news:cj519g$ni7$2@blue.rahul.net:

In article <Xns956FC1010B17Cjyanikkuanet@204.117.192.21>,
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

What Kerry did;illegally meeting with N.Vietnamese officials in Paris
while still an officer in the Naval Reserves,was and still is treason.
(aiding and abetting the enemy)

I think someone else in this news group has already disproven the
assertion that he was still an officer on that day but we can skip
that question completely because he did not aid and abet an enemy by
having that meeting.

Perhaps you ought to ask the POWs that suffered because of Kerry's remarks
if they think he committed treason.Or "aided and abetted" the enemy.

And from what I've read,Kerry was still in the Naval Reserves at the time
of his visit to Paris and the VC.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

Colin Dawson · Sep 26, 2004

Won't anyone give me a straight answer on how the hell to build an
Ammeter
circuit,

You never asked anybody for an ammeter circuit. And an ammeter doesn't
measure the battery's level anyway - it measures how much current you're
drawing from it.

Didn't I? I take it that you read the original message.....

"Is there something that I can do to counter balance this high current
voltage drop?

My thought on this is to place a kind of Ammeter into the circuit, that will
adjust the value of VR1, in accordance to the amount of current drawn
through the circuit. Changes in current would would effect this part of
the circuit, and continuously trim the battery meter, so that the readout
remains stable. (and hopefully correct)"

Regards

Colin Dawson
www.cjdawson.com

Jim Thompson · Sep 22, 2004

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:48:37 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

[snip]

See "FullWaveRectifier.pdf" on the SED/Schematics page of my website
for a starting point (note, there are four pages).

ISTR that I posted a version that was peak-to-peak on a.b.s.e, but I
can't locate it right now.

...Jim Thompson

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

ChrisGibboGibson · Sep 26, 2004

"Colin Dawson" wrote:

[snip]

I've got a problem with the battery meter, in that as I turn stuff on, and
the amount of current drawn increases, the meter shows a voltage drop, and
since the difference between a full and empty battery reading is about 2V
(12V= full 10V = empty) this shows a significant drop on the readout.

What you've done is prove to yourself that battery voltage is not much use as a
state of charge indicator when the battery is actually being used.

That's precisely why there's such a huge market in very expensive amp hours
counters. It's the only reliable way of doing what you want to do. A volt meter
simply won't do it.

As another poster pointed out, a *very* basic, discharge only, amphours counter
can be built relatively easily.

Gibbo

Mike Monett · Sep 26, 2004

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett <no@spam.com> wrote

Do not send yourself a registered letter. This
doesn't work.

Why not? Because USPS will fail to deliver it?

Would you trust me if I showed you a sealed envelope with a date and time
stamp and I told you I mailed it to myself a year ago?

Neither would a jury

The best thing is to get good documentation on the date of the invention.
This means notarized log books, filing invention disclosures with the
USPTO, publishing articles in respected journals and on the web, and
focus getting as much product in customer's hands as quickly as possible.

Patents are a very minor part of a successful product. Customers could
care less. Good marketing and satisfied customers are the key. Word of
mouth advertising is irreplaceable.

Bear in mind one satisfied customer MAY tell a friend.

One dissatisfied customer WILL tell everyone

Mike

R Adsett · Sep 26, 2004

In article <41569542.19425106@News.individual.net>, john_c@tpg.com.au
says...

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:22:59 +0000 (UTC), "Colin Dawson"
nospam@cjdawson.com> wrote:
What I want is a "Battery Level Meter". Just because I start pulling 10A
from my battery doesn't mean that it's capacity suddenly drops, as a
VoltMeter shows. I don't care what the Voltage of the battery is. I WANT
TO KNOW WHEN I NEET TO START TURNING OFF DEVICES BECAUSE THE DAMMED BATTERY
IS ALMOST FLAT AND MY TELESCOPE IS ABOUT TO LOOSE IT'S ALIGNMENT. (at
this point Colin has thrown his teddy out of the cot)
Why not just use a Curtis gauge? Short of an amp-hour meter thay are

AFAIK as good as they get.

Robert

OT: Bush Thugs Rough Up Grieving Mother of KIA

Guy Macon

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Marco Ferra

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Rich Webb

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Fred Bloggs

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Rich Grise

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Charles W. Johson Jr.

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Kevin Aylward

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Kevin Aylward

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Guy Macon

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John Woodgate

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Jim Thompson

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Colin Dawson

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Ken Smith

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Ken Smith

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