OT: Al Franken

[Bob Stephens]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:37:05 GMT, Harry Dellamano wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:8ugt80l5n5g3ahjjbhosmn0u8m9jlsq4g1@4ax.com...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:05:18 GMT, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:54:06 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

Please don't besmurch the name of that noble breakfast (and around
here, occasionally, dinner) food.

Anybody wany my recipe for fried grits?
John

Hey, the grits are *in*, thanks John. Probably the only (edible) grits
on the block. Is your recipe just this:

(presumably cook first according to directions)
"refrigerate overnight, slice into thin slabs, and pan-fry in butter
the next day; serve with syrup like pancakes. Yum."

Or is there more to it?

Is there some way I should try first that's particularly accessible?
There are a bunch of recipes on the box (lots of room on unilingual
boxes!).

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Oh, ignore the stuff on the box.

The ratio is 1 part grits to 4 water. Try 1/3 cup grits to 1.33 cups
water maybe. Boil the water in a teflon pot, add a pat of butter and
some salt, and *stir* in the grits (like polenta, it will clump if you
just dump it in.) Reduce to minimal barely-bubbling simmer and cook
covered for 15-20 minutes until it's not, well, gritty. Stir once in a
while if it makes you feel useful. Add a splash of water if it looks
too stiff; the intent is to stay barely thixotropic.

Serve with lots of butter, salt, black pepper, and fried or scrambled
eggs.

The next-day fried grits is as noted above. You may need a bigger
batch to create left-overs.

Hope you like it; some people don't. Mo (from Boston) and Liz (born
here) both love it.

No trouble with Customs, I take it. We labeled it "GIFT-PARROT FOOD"
just in case.

Remember, Grits is always singular.

John

Now when you say "polenta" you are getting into my territory, brought up on
that stuff. The magic formula is 3:1 for 20 minutes simmering. Very close to
your grits. Serve with sprinkled cheese, tomato sauce and a meat, chicken,
sausage and transparent cooked peppers and onions. Red wine works well here.

regards
Harry

Sounds delicious. I was introduced to a dish in Memphis called "Shrimp and
Grits" which was very similar to what you describe but substituted grits
and large prawns for polenta and meat.

Bob
--
"Just machines that make big decisions
programmed by fellas with compassion and vision."
-D. Fagen
(remove yomama)

 

[Ban]

Harry Dellamano wrote:

Now when you say "polenta" you are getting into my territory,
brought up on that stuff. The magic formula is 3:1 for 20 minutes
simmering. Very close to your grits. Serve with sprinkled cheese,
tomato sauce and a meat, chicken, sausage and transparent cooked
peppers and onions. Red wine works well here.

regards
Harry

Here in Italy we eat a lot of polenta, but my little daughter doesn't like
it hard as it is served normally. For getting a more mashed-potato like
consistency I boil 1L of semi-skimmed milk with a spoon of biological
vegetable extract (brodo) and pour in around 250g of polenta. This has to be
done when the milk is only warm to prevent lumping and very slowly. Then
stirring it constantly until boil and simmer at very low heat. At the end
add a piece of butter(kids) or pour some olio piccante (olive oil with
peperoncini).
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:408F24BD.35BF@armory.com...

Nonsense, nobody "controls themselves", they are made who they are
by their experiences and traumas, over which they have NO control
AT ALL! You only PRETEND that you "decide", but you couldn't change
your mind about the tiniest thing merely on a whim, you're ENTIRELY
who you are because of your lucky or UNlucky experiences, and what
you do next is determined by the mind that at this time has resulted
from those traumas and experiences!! Go ahead, smart little shit,
and anybody else who's reading this too, go ahead and just TRY to
change your mind about ANYTHING on a whim without a reason!! You
KNOW FULL WELL that you'd have to LIE to even say that you had, AND
that everyone ELSE reading this TOO would KNOW that you are a LIAR!!

Here's Walz's ironclad excuse for never ever ever ever taking in any
information that's in conflict with his personal dogma.

Poor bastard's a victim of Terminal Brain Lock.

How very sad.

Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message

Serve with lots of butter, salt, black pepper, and fried or scrambled
eggs.

When I was in the service, stationed at air bases in the "Southern" states,
the local boys would get a real kick out of seeing the carpetbaggers in the
chow hall putting cream and sugar on their breakfast grits. Apparently they
thought it was cream-o-wheat. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:408F24BD.35BF@armory.com...

Nonsense, nobody "controls themselves", they are made who they are
by their experiences and traumas, over which they have NO control
AT ALL! You only PRETEND that you "decide", but you couldn't change
your mind about the tiniest thing merely on a whim, you're ENTIRELY
who you are because of your lucky or UNlucky experiences, and what
you do next is determined by the mind that at this time has resulted
from those traumas and experiences!! Go ahead, smart little shit,
and anybody else who's reading this too, go ahead and just TRY to
change your mind about ANYTHING on a whim without a reason!! You
KNOW FULL WELL that you'd have to LIE to even say that you had, AND
that everyone ELSE reading this TOO would KNOW that you are a LIAR!!

Here's Walz's ironclad excuse for never ever ever ever taking in any
information that's in conflict with his personal dogma.
Rich
------------------------

No, that reasoning doesn't lead to that at all. If you can't think
straight you should probably ask someone like me to help you.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[John Miller]

Rich Grise wrote:

When I was in the service, stationed at air bases in the "Southern"
states, the local boys would get a real kick out of seeing the
carpetbaggers in the chow hall putting cream and sugar on their breakfast
grits. Apparently they thought it was cream-o-wheat. ;-)

Sometimes those who are eager to see others as, uh, inexperienced, are blind
to having their own legs pulled. My mad friend Noah has been known to put
Sweet 'n' Low in his wine rather conspicuously, if he's among wine snobs
who are becoming insufferable. They don't have a clue that their noses are
being rubbed in it...

--
John Miller
in a southern state

Who loves not wisely but too well
Will look on Helen's face in hell,
But he whose love is thin and wise
Will view John Knox in Paradise.
-- Dorothy Parker

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409564F6.499E@armory.com...

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:408F24BD.35BF@armory.com...

Nonsense, nobody "controls themselves", they are made who they are
by their experiences and traumas, over which they have NO control
AT ALL! You only PRETEND that you "decide", but you couldn't change
your mind about the tiniest thing merely on a whim, you're ENTIRELY
who you are because of your lucky or UNlucky experiences, and what
you do next is determined by the mind that at this time has resulted
from those traumas and experiences!! Go ahead, smart little shit,
and anybody else who's reading this too, go ahead and just TRY to
change your mind about ANYTHING on a whim without a reason!! You
KNOW FULL WELL that you'd have to LIE to even say that you had, AND
that everyone ELSE reading this TOO would KNOW that you are a LIAR!!

Here's Walz's ironclad excuse for never ever ever ever taking in any
information that's in conflict with his personal dogma.
Rich
------------------------
No, that reasoning doesn't lead to that at all. If you can't think
straight you should probably ask someone like me to help you.

And he's lost the ability to read his own words. Yup, absolute brain
lock.

Walz, you say right in black and white, and even requoted yourself, that
there is no such thing as Free Will:

-------------quote AGAIN----------------
Nonsense, nobody "controls themselves", they are made who they are

by their experiences and traumas, over which they have NO control
AT ALL!
--------------------------------------------

So, your talking out both sides of your mouth, taking whatever stance is
convenient, demonstrating that your opinions have no value whatever.

It is becoming clear that you truly believe that you have no choice, and
so in that sense you are a victim of whatever phenomenon makes a person
nothing more than a pile of deterministic billiard-ball atoms with no say
in the matter of their own decisions or choices.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but your brainlock is entirely self-imposed,
and what you've claimed to be Universal Truth is simply lack of imagination.

But I guess you, being nothing but a servomechanism totally at the mercy
of the vagaries of reality, find comfort in the Nuremburg defense.

Good Luck,
Rich

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409564F6.499E@armory.com...
Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:408F24BD.35BF@armory.com...

Nonsense, nobody "controls themselves", they are made who they are
by their experiences and traumas, over which they have NO control
AT ALL! You only PRETEND that you "decide", but you couldn't change
your mind about the tiniest thing merely on a whim, you're ENTIRELY
who you are because of your lucky or UNlucky experiences, and what
you do next is determined by the mind that at this time has resulted
from those traumas and experiences!! Go ahead, smart little shit,
and anybody else who's reading this too, go ahead and just TRY to
change your mind about ANYTHING on a whim without a reason!! You
KNOW FULL WELL that you'd have to LIE to even say that you had, AND
that everyone ELSE reading this TOO would KNOW that you are a LIAR!!

Here's Walz's ironclad excuse for never ever ever ever taking in any
information that's in conflict with his personal dogma.
Rich
------------------------
No, that reasoning doesn't lead to that at all. If you can't think
straight you should probably ask someone like me to help you.

And he's lost the ability to read his own words. Yup, absolute brain
lock.

Walz, you say right in black and white, and even requoted yourself, that
there is no such thing as Free Will:
--------------------

Correct! If someone told me something that changed my mind I would
not be able to prevent myself from changing my mind.

-------------quote AGAIN----------------
Nonsense, nobody "controls themselves", they are made who they are
by their experiences and traumas, over which they have NO control
AT ALL!
--------------------------------------------

So, your talking out both sides of your mouth, taking whatever stance is
convenient, demonstrating that your opinions have no value whatever.
------------------

Nope, I'm merely a fatalist about it, if my position changes the
minds of others it is entirely beyond any control of theirs or mine.

I say what I say because I can't help but do so. They listen and
change if they do because they can't help it. I am nought but a
vehicle for whatever happens, just as is everyone else.

It is becoming clear that you truly believe that you have no choice, and
so in that sense you are a victim of whatever phenomenon makes a person
nothing more than a pile of deterministic billiard-ball atoms with no say
in the matter of their own decisions or choices.
-------------------------

Yup. As are we all.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but your brainlock is entirely self-imposed,
and what you've claimed to be Universal Truth is simply lack of imagination.
----------------------------

Wrong.
You'd need to show this somehow, not merely state it, and you can't.

But I guess you, being nothing but a servomechanism totally at the mercy
of the vagaries of reality, find comfort in the Nuremburg defense.

Good Luck,
Rich
--------------------------------

Nope, I received no "orders", and people who do evil will likely
continue, so they should be imprisoned or killed. It's not their
fault, but the rest of us have the right to defend ourselves, and
by our measures, we may thereby deter others from those crimes.

Interestingly, while I believe in imprisonment and execution, I
don't believe in punishment, and if prisoners remain alive they
should be offered all humane opportunities afforded the rest of
us, as long as they do their work.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4095BB07.585C@armory.com...

So, your talking out both sides of your mouth, taking whatever stance is
convenient, demonstrating that your opinions have no value whatever.
------------------
Nope, I'm merely a fatalist about it, if my position changes the
minds of others it is entirely beyond any control of theirs or mine.

I say what I say because I can't help but do so. They listen and
change if they do because they can't help it. I am nought but a
vehicle for whatever happens, just as is everyone else.

So, you intend to use the Nuremburg defense when people don't
take kindly to you committing wanton murder?

"I couldn't help it - they ***CHANGED MY MIND***!!"

I don't plonk often, but I'm tired of casting pearls before swine.

'bye.

 

[Bill Garber]

"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:3Dulc.19953$sK3.5307@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
: "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
: news:4095BB07.585C@armory.com...
: > > So, your talking out both sides of your mouth, taking
whatever stance is
: > > convenient, demonstrating that your opinions have no value
whatever.
: > ------------------
: > Nope, I'm merely a fatalist about it, if my position changes
the
: > minds of others it is entirely beyond any control of theirs
or mine.
: >
: > I say what I say because I can't help but do so. They listen
and
: > change if they do because they can't help it. I am nought but
a
: > vehicle for whatever happens, just as is everyone else.
:
: So, you intend to use the Nuremburg defense when people don't
: take kindly to you committing wanton murder?
:
: "I couldn't help it - they ***CHANGED MY MIND***!!"
:
: I don't plonk often, but I'm tired of casting pearls before
swine.

This guy Steve Walz reminds me much of "The
Matrix Reloaded", the character known as THE
MEROVINGIAN. There is no choice, only causality.
Cause and effect. Only Steve comes to us without
the "Why", without Power.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
Change DOT to a dot to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 3/20/04

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4095BB07.585C@armory.com...
So, your talking out both sides of your mouth, taking whatever stance is
convenient, demonstrating that your opinions have no value whatever.
------------------
Nope, I'm merely a fatalist about it, if my position changes the
minds of others it is entirely beyond any control of theirs or mine.

I say what I say because I can't help but do so. They listen and
change if they do because they can't help it. I am nought but a
vehicle for whatever happens, just as is everyone else.

So, you intend to use the Nuremburg defense when people don't
take kindly to you committing wanton murder?
-------------------------------

Wouldn't be "murder", illicit killing, and Eisenhower didn't have to
worry either when he massacred Nazis.

Since the only killing I'd do would be with Majority sanction,
I'd not have to worry about that.

"I couldn't help it - they ***CHANGED MY MIND***!!"
I don't plonk often, but I'm tired of casting pearls before swine.
'bye.
--------------------------

You have proved your profound inability to think by failing to even
understand basic deterministic cause and effect in the physical world.

Do you actually have some delusion that you "control" the chemistry
of your brain and the movement of molecules, or do you paradoxically
and quite impossibly assert that they still move according to cause
and effect despite your silly assertions that you "control"
yourself?????? Go grow a mind!! READ something besides Usenet!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Bill Garber wrote:

"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:3Dulc.19953$sK3.5307@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
: "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
: news:4095BB07.585C@armory.com...
: > > So, your talking out both sides of your mouth, taking
whatever stance is
: > > convenient, demonstrating that your opinions have no value
whatever.
: > ------------------
: > Nope, I'm merely a fatalist about it, if my position changes
the
: > minds of others it is entirely beyond any control of theirs
or mine.
:
: > I say what I say because I can't help but do so. They listen
and
: > change if they do because they can't help it. I am nought but
a
: > vehicle for whatever happens, just as is everyone else.
:
: So, you intend to use the Nuremburg defense when people don't
: take kindly to you committing wanton murder?
:
: "I couldn't help it - they ***CHANGED MY MIND***!!"
:
: I don't plonk often, but I'm tired of casting pearls before
swine.

This guy Steve Walz reminds me much of "The
Matrix Reloaded", the character known as THE
MEROVINGIAN. There is no choice, only causality.
Cause and effect. Only Steve comes to us without
the "Why", without Power.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
----------------

Now this cretin claims that I'm some nihilist just because I disagree
with him about what Good and Evil are. It's amazing the crap that
you try to pass for argument on Usenet these days.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Bill Garber]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40970189.2DC8@armory.com...
: Bill Garber wrote:
: >
: > "Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
: > news:3Dulc.19953$sK3.5307@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
: > : "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
: > : news:4095BB07.585C@armory.com...
: > : > > So, your talking out both sides of your mouth, taking
: > whatever stance is
: > : > > convenient, demonstrating that your opinions have no
value
: > whatever.
: > : > ------------------
: > : > Nope, I'm merely a fatalist about it, if my position
changes
: > the
: > : > minds of others it is entirely beyond any control of
theirs
: > or mine.
: > : >
: > : > I say what I say because I can't help but do so. They
listen
: > and
: > : > change if they do because they can't help it. I am nought
but
: > a
: > : > vehicle for whatever happens, just as is everyone else.
: > :
: > : So, you intend to use the Nuremburg defense when people
don't
: > : take kindly to you committing wanton murder?
: > :
: > : "I couldn't help it - they ***CHANGED MY MIND***!!"
: > :
: > : I don't plonk often, but I'm tired of casting pearls before
: > swine.
: >
: > This guy Steve Walz reminds me much of "The
: > Matrix Reloaded", the character known as THE
: > MEROVINGIAN. There is no choice, only causality.
: > Cause and effect. Only Steve comes to us without
: > the "Why", without Power.
: >
: > Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
: ----------------
: Now this cretin claims that I'm some nihilist just because I
disagree
: with him about what Good and Evil are. It's amazing the crap
that
: you try to pass for argument on Usenet these days.

Look, if you'd seen the movie you'd have realized
that I was agreeing with you, that we don't often
have much choice in how we respond to a situation,
but we DO have a choice if we understand WHY things
are happening the way they are. Besides, what would
be the point in arguing the difference between Good
and Evil when we have no choice in the matter anyway.

I would be happy to converse with you on the subject,
but if you choose to insult me, then forget it.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
Change DOT to a dot to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 3/20/04

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4097011C.5E1E@armory.com...

Rich Grise wrote:

--------------------------
You have proved your profound inability to think by failing to even
understand basic deterministic cause and effect in the physical world.

That's odd - I can say exactly the same about you.

And the thing is, I actually _do_ understand basic Cause and Effect,
and, it might be to your dismay when your blinders finally come off,
it's not deterministic. This is the confusing, terrifying, enraging
part of reality that people would rather die than acknowledge.

Can you tell me what's on the other side of _my_ blinders? Can you
tell me what's on _my_ side of my blinders?

Otherwise, shut up. Or not, it's your choice.

See, Walz, you can't escape Free Will, as much as your Master wants
you to believe you can. Because, you see, whoever you install as your
Master over you, it's _YOU_ who has _CHOSEN_ to follow that particular
master.

Yes, you are free to choose blind obedience. It's very safe, and
comfortable. After all, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Good Luck,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4097011C.5E1E@armory.com...

Rich Grise wrote:

Do you actually have some delusion that you "control" the chemistry
of your brain and the movement of molecules,

Oh, for heaven's sakes. Yes, in a sense - I'm moving the molecules
that are hitting the keyboard right this very moment. As far as
"controlling" my brain chemistry, I have no intention of ever even
trying that - it's the imposition of control (or the illusion of
control) that throws the system out of equilibrium and is basically
the cause of the concomitant problems. (well, I'm sure a good splif
or a couple bongs affect my brain chemistry, but I find it to be a
pleasant_ effect. Other than that, t'd make as much sense as
trying to "control" what my eyes are showing me, or my skin, or
any other sense. Well, OK, I control what I _look_ at, and I do,
in fact, have _absolute_ control over my own personal response.
Well, I control my behavior that's in response to the stimulus.
When something angers me, I don't control the anger. Anger, and
fear, and all the other emotions, are an integral part of my
sensory system. Their job is to report reality to me, not direct
my responses.

This is the difference that, when enough people get it, is going
to save Reality Itself from The Light Bearer when he comes
floating in on a cloud telling us he's the savior. But that's
crazy talk. Yes, I'm demonstrably quite insane. I have to be
nuts to sit here and cry "Freedom" while in the middle of the
enemy camp. And I'm clearly equally nuts, or maybe it's just
stupid, to think that it's possible to talk sense into a mind
that proclaims itself to be incapable of independent thought.

or do you paradoxically
and quite impossibly assert that they still move according to cause
and effect despite your silly assertions that you "control"
yourself?????? Go grow a mind!! READ something besides Usenet!

-Steve

Well, I'd say the "Cause" is that I want to post, and the "Effect"
is that some differences in light and dark spots appear on your
monitor.

Read something? Pfaugh!

I was reading the encyclopaedia recreationally at the age of 7.
And I haven't stopped yet. And yes, part of me is still 7. But
I try to keep Dickie safe from you geeks. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
news:HLidnfxMi4iwvArdRVn-uw@comcast.com...

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
: > This guy Steve Walz reminds me much of "The
: > Matrix Reloaded", the character known as THE
: > MEROVINGIAN. There is no choice, only causality.
: > Cause and effect. Only Steve comes to us without
: > the "Why", without Power.
:
: > Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
: ----------------
: Now this cretin claims that I'm some nihilist just because I
disagree
: with him about what Good and Evil are. It's amazing the crap
that
: you try to pass for argument on Usenet these days.

Look, if you'd seen the movie you'd have realized
that I was agreeing with you, that we don't often
have much choice in how we respond to a situation,
but we DO have a choice if we understand WHY things
are happening the way they are.

No, he couldn't choose how he responds - he's a victim
of cause and effect. He's just a large ROM.

Besides, what would
be the point in arguing the difference between Good
and Evil when we have no choice in the matter anyway.

Ah, but we do! And the difference is really quite obvious,
except for the fact that from the first day of our lives,
society tries to teach us the opposite. And Steve is just
an extreme example of what happens when they just swallow
the dogma and turn themselves into automata.

I would be happy to converse with you on the subject,
but if you choose to insult me, then forget it.

Oh, he didn't "choose" to insult you - he's a victim of
cause and effect, you see.

Yeah, apparently, you can't have a conversation with him,
unless you expand the definition of "conversation" to include
"an exchange between a person and a tape player."

Cheers!
Rich

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
You have proved your profound inability to think by failing to even
understand basic deterministic cause and effect in the physical > >world.

That's odd - I can say exactly the same about you.
-------------

You COULD, if you were LYING.

And the thing is, I actually _do_ understand basic Cause and Effect,
and, it might be to your dismay when your blinders finally come off,
it's not deterministic. This is the confusing, terrifying, enraging
part of reality that people would rather die than acknowledge.
---------------------------

And this is the bullshit that you can't defend, except to flail
emotionally.

Can you tell me what's on the other side of _my_ blinders? Can you
tell me what's on _my_ side of my blinders?
-----------------------------

The cancer or heart disease you'll die of in humiliation after you
told that poor paypal guy that his cancer was some form of emotional
weakness instead of one of several diseases that will kill each of
us because our bodies are not evolved to last, and which you'd know
if you weren't such fucking stupid vicious little posturer.

Otherwise, shut up. Or not, it's your choice.
-------------------------------

That's a vainglorious dare that you merely hoped I wouldn't take.

See, Walz, you can't escape Free Will, as much as your Master wants
you to believe you can.
-----------------------------

There is no "Master", what are you blubbering about?

Because, you see, whoever you install as your
Master over you, it's _YOU_ who has _CHOSEN_ to follow that particular
master.
-------------------------------

You wish to personify cause and effect as some "master", useless and
meaningless, it needs none such.

Neither you nor I have power to install anything. We are here
because we cannot prevent it. We are who we are because of what
cause and effect have made us.

Even your stupidity is merely a result of what the ridiculous
comedy you call your pitiful life has made you.

Yes, you are free to choose blind obedience. It's very safe, and
comfortable. After all, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
Good Luck,
Rich
---------------------------------

There is no obedience, there is no choice except those we cannot
help but make, and there is no bliss in your ignorance no matter
how ignorant you are. You couldn't change your mind yourself if
your life depended on it.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4097011C.5E1E@armory.com...
Rich Grise wrote:

Do you actually have some delusion that you "control" the chemistry
of your brain and the movement of molecules,

Oh, for heaven's sakes. Yes, in a sense - I'm moving the molecules
that are hitting the keyboard right this very moment.
----------------------

Nope, one of the inevitable effects of your causes is that you are
deluded into believing that you decide what you think, when all you
actually are is what it has you think.

As far as
"controlling" my brain chemistry, I have no intention of ever even
trying that - it's the imposition of control (or the illusion of
control) that throws the system out of equilibrium and is basically
the cause of the concomitant problems.
--------------------------

You're flailing wildly here, to no avail. You just managed to say
precisely nothing of meaning.

(well, I'm sure a good splif
or a couple bongs affect my brain chemistry, but I find it to be a
pleasant_ effect. Other than that, it'd make as much sense as
trying to "control" what my eyes are showing me, or my skin, or
any other sense. Well, OK, I control what I _look_ at, and I do,
in fact, have _absolute_ control over my own personal response.
--------------------

No, you believe that you do after the fact circularly, which is
entirely different.

Well, I control my behavior that's in response to the stimulus.
----------------------

No, if you did you could change it into any response of any kind,
and you can't. The reasons for your choices are actually what make
your choices, and you can't change them because they come from
outside yourself.

When something angers me, I don't control the anger. Anger, and
fear, and all the other emotions, are an integral part of my
sensory system. Their job is to report reality to me, not direct
my responses.
--------------------------

You're thrashing. You keep moving "yourself" around over the landscape
trying to find where it "comes from", and there isn't any such place,
it is a notion you can't help, not something that chooses anything.
Whatever it/you choose/just chose, the mythical "you" will try to
take credit for it, this little you atop the meat-machine, and you'll
merely be lying.

This is the difference that, when enough people get it, is going
to save Reality Itself from The Light Bearer when he comes
floating in on a cloud telling us he's the savior. But that's
crazy talk. Yes, I'm demonstrably quite insane. I have to be
nuts to sit here and cry "Freedom" while in the middle of the
enemy camp. And I'm clearly equally nuts, or maybe it's just
stupid, to think that it's possible to talk sense into a mind
that proclaims itself to be incapable of independent thought.
---------------------

You confabulate the most ridiculous games to try to hide behind.
You can't help doing it, your notions that come from your life
experience compel you to.

or do you paradoxically
and quite impossibly assert that they still move according to cause
and effect despite your silly assertions that you "control"
yourself?????? Go grow a mind!! READ something besides Usenet!

-Steve

Well, I'd say the "Cause" is that I want to post, and the "Effect"
is that some differences in light and dark spots appear on your
monitor.
--------------------------------

You're not going far back enough, there are no original "causes"
that are not themselves "effects".

Read something? Pfaugh!

I was reading the encyclopaedia recreationally at the age of 7.
------------------------------

And you didn't understand a word of it.

And I haven't stopped yet. And yes, part of me is still 7. But
I try to keep Dickie safe from you geeks. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
------------------------------

Beaten for masturbating, were you?

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
news:HLidnfxMi4iwvArdRVn-uw@comcast.com...

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
: > This guy Steve Walz reminds me much of "The
: > Matrix Reloaded", the character known as THE
: > MEROVINGIAN. There is no choice, only causality.
: > Cause and effect. Only Steve comes to us without
: > the "Why", without Power.
:
: > Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
: ----------------
: Now this cretin claims that I'm some nihilist just because I
disagree
: with him about what Good and Evil are. It's amazing the crap
that
: you try to pass for argument on Usenet these days.

Look, if you'd seen the movie you'd have realized
that I was agreeing with you, that we don't often
have much choice in how we respond to a situation,
but we DO have a choice if we understand WHY things
are happening the way they are.

No, he couldn't choose how he responds - he's a victim
of cause and effect. He's just a large ROM.
-----------------

All computing functions can be represented by ROM state machines.

Besides, what would
be the point in arguing the difference between Good
and Evil when we have no choice in the matter anyway.

Ah, but we do!
----------------

That was him, not me.

And the difference is really quite obvious,
except for the fact that from the first day of our lives,
society tries to teach us the opposite. And Steve is just
an extreme example of what happens when they just swallow
the dogma and turn themselves into automata.
---------------------------

Nonsense, the point is that we cannot control ourselves, we can
only be ourselves until we are changed by the actions of others,
and then only continue to be that new self, and they, in turn,
are also changed by us, both as we might like, and also not so.

I would be happy to converse with you on the subject,
but if you choose to insult me, then forget it.

Oh, he didn't "choose" to insult you - he's a victim of
cause and effect, you see.

Yeah, apparently, you can't have a conversation with him,
unless you expand the definition of "conversation" to include
"an exchange between a person and a tape player."

Cheers!
Rich
--------------------------

You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of reality
is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic catechism,
or some such.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409861C0.317E@armory.com...

Rich Grise wrote:

if you weren't such fucking stupid vicious little posturer.

Ah. Cussing and Ad Hominem.

Why does this not surprise me?

I think I'll let this thread go now. (is this because I have no
choice, and you've "caused" me to become bored? Does it make any
difference?)

Rich