Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

In message
1662384064.708249629.795394.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>,
Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> writes


There seem to be
quite a few US driving rules that could be usefully adopted here (but
almost certainly never will be).

\'Left turn on red\' (obviously left in the UK) would be one of them.

Nothing is stopping you doing so. I do that all the time. Very easy when you\'re only checking for a smaller number of cars.

But what could we offer them in return? I believe the Americans are
rather suspicious of alien imports (especially the new-fangled thing
called \'The Roundabout\') .

Unfortunately our councils keep removing them in favour of those stupid lights which leave junctions empty for millennia.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:06:34 +0100, Arie de Muijnck <noreply@ademu.com> wrote:

On 2023-06-12 14:56, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message <1662384064.708249629.795394.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> writes

There seem to be
quite a few US driving rules that could be usefully adopted here (but
almost certainly never will be).

\'Left turn on red\' (obviously left in the UK) would be one of them.

But what could we offer them in return? I believe the Americans are rather suspicious of alien imports (especially the new-fangled thing called \'The Roundabout\') .


Well, they should try this one:
https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.0595773,4.727208,119m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu

I use that one a few times per week, and it really helps, never a long queue.
In the beginning there were some accidents, but we got used to it.
Just be sure to take the proper lane when approaching...

How is that difficult? Roundabouts are the simplest junctions, you only have to check one direction.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 10:35:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 12/06/2023 22:18, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-06-12, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

But what could we offer them in return? I believe the Americans are
rather suspicious of alien imports (especially the new-fangled thing
called \'The Roundabout\') .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latham_Circle

It depends on what you mean by \'roundabout\'. The US has had rotaries for
decades. The local government has been on a roundabout kick. Many timid
drivers treat them like a four way stop

We\'ve got roundabouts at intersections that are so busy, it can take
some waiting for traffic already _in_ the roundabout to clear. I\'ve
seen traffic lined up six or more cars deep and two lanes wide.

During some fuel crisis or other a roundabout was blocked by traffic
queuing to visit a supermarket with fuel available. I couldn\'t get
round it, so I waited, then looked at the queues preventing even a blues
and twos from navigating it

It\'s amazing how some people find it difficult to let an ambulance through. Some won\'t even run a red light to do so. I pushed someone doing that once

and noting my desired exit road was in fact
empty, drove my Defender over the grassy top of it.
One of the more satisfying moments of my life, and the tyre tracks
lasted for weeks...

Good on you.

I don\'t mind navigating them on weekdays, when everybody on the
road is a \"pro\". On weekends, when the working people come out
to shop at Costco, it\'s amateur hour.

defeating the purpose, or navigate
them at 15 mph. I treat them as challenging chicanes.

Considering the speed limit in our roundabouts is 15 mph, I don\'t
grudge anybody doing that speed.

Blimey.

I overtake more cars on roundabouts than on the dual carriageways
leading up to them.

It is a matter of pride to take than at around 50mph. What else is a
sports saloon for? Brakes waste fuel.

Agreed. And there aren\'t speed cameras on roundabouts, so there\'s no real limit.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 05:25:18 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 21:18:06 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

defeating the purpose, or navigate them at 15 mph. I treat them as
challenging chicanes.

Considering the speed limit in our roundabouts is 15 mph, I don\'t grudge
anybody doing that speed.

There is an advisory 15 mph but considering the two I have to navigate
most frequently were plonked down in the middle of a 45 mph road they are
a serious obstacle to traffic. To add to the clown show the street that
really needed some sort of traffic control wasn\'t included in the rotary
so now it will still have cars backed up.

They striped the rotaries last week making them even more ludicrous as
they tried to create two lanes, one being a left turn in a very small
diameter. They\'ll probably be universally ignored. One of the other
rotaries does have a left hand lane that doesn\'t enter the rotary at all.

I can\'t wait to see what they do to the bike path.

They do the opposite here. There\'s one near me which clearly has room for two cars to go round at once. They painted lines to indicate people should go round one at a time. I ignore them. I also ignore the slightly raised brick bit lorries can use to go over. Well so can a car.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 21:39:05 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:05:07 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

The one I\'m thinking of is at the intersection of two 45-mph roads. It\'s
much less of an obstacle to traffic than the previous traffic signal
was. At rush hour, you previously were guaranteed a half-mile backup at
the light.

The two new ones were built to support housing developments that are still
in the process of being constructed. The road where a elementary school is
located tends to be backed up and when they started construction I thought
they were going to fix that problem. If anything the rotary made it worse.

https://www.kpax.com/news/missoula-county/roundabout-construction-occurs-
on-mullan-road

The map sucks but the roundabout is at Mary Jane, not Flynn where the
school is located. The \'completed by the end of summer (2022)\' was a bit
optimistic.

Last month a woman was killed about a half mile past the new roundabouts.
She blew a stop sign and was t-boned by a pickup but that may be used as
an excuse to build yet another. Got to protect the stupid.

We really really shouldn\'t.

 

[Mark Lloyd]

On 8/4/23 22:46, Commander Kinsey wrote:[snip]

How is that difficult?  Roundabouts are the simplest junctions, you only
have to check one direction.

There used to be one of those here. Now its a complicated 5-way
intersection. The thing I usually remember is empty trucks going too
fast and falling over.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

\"A Mormon is a man that has the bad taste and the religion to do what a
good many other people are restrained from doing by conscientious
scruples and the police.\" Mr. Dooley]

 

[Peeler]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 12:29:05 -0500, Mark Lloyd, another absolutely brain
dead, troll-feeding, senile cretin, drivelled:

There used to be one of those here. Now its a complicated 5-way
intersection. The thing I usually remember is empty trucks going too
fast and falling over.

And wtf has this shit got to do with ANY of the 3 ngs you crossposted it to,
you demented troll-feeding senile cretin?

 

[Bob F]

On 8/5/2023 10:29 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 8/4/23 22:46, Commander Kinsey wrote:[snip]

How is that difficult?  Roundabouts are the simplest junctions, you
only have to check one direction.

There used to be one of those here. Now its a complicated 5-way
intersection. The thing I usually remember is empty trucks going too
fast and falling over.

There is one big roundabout in some eastern US city that shows up
regularly on Youtube car crash videos, frequently involving snow or ice.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 17:56:16 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:52:25 +0100, S Viemeister wrote:

On 12/06/2023 13:56, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message
1662384064.708249629.795394.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>,
Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> writes


There seem to be quite a few US driving rules that could be usefully
adopted here (but almost certainly never will be).

\'Left turn on red\' (obviously left in the UK) would be one of them.

But what could we offer them in return? I believe the Americans are
rather suspicious of alien imports (especially the new-fangled thing
called \'The Roundabout\') .

Some parts of the US have had roundabouts, AKA \'traffic circles\' for
decades.

Some states like New Jersey are phasing them out. They were poorly
designed and increased the accidents although the fender benders tended to
happen at a lower speed. They were a body shop\'s dream.

I fail to see how you can have an accident on a roundabout. The only one I know of was the stupid one near Edinburgh with traffic lights actually on the roundabout!! I had never seen such a stupid thing before and assumed since I was on the roundabout, I had right of way. Apparently there was a red light I should have seen despite the glowing ball of fire 93 million miles away directly behind it.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 17:56:16 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:52:25 +0100, S Viemeister wrote:

On 12/06/2023 13:56, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message
1662384064.708249629.795394.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>,
Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> writes


There seem to be quite a few US driving rules that could be usefully
adopted here (but almost certainly never will be).

\'Left turn on red\' (obviously left in the UK) would be one of them.

But what could we offer them in return? I believe the Americans are
rather suspicious of alien imports (especially the new-fangled thing
called \'The Roundabout\') .

Some parts of the US have had roundabouts, AKA \'traffic circles\' for
decades.

Some states like New Jersey are phasing them out. They were poorly
designed and increased the accidents although the fender benders tended to
happen at a lower speed. They were a body shop\'s dream.

I see no point in fixing bodywork. As long as the car runs.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 18:03:33 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:39:19 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

Yes, I know - but many drivers still can\'t get the hang of them.
Mini-roundabouts don\'t exist, and they still prefer the \'Four Way Stop\'

Some of the residential intersections have adopted mini-roundabouts.
Essentially you take a normal intersection and plant flowers in the
middle. The flowers tend to have a hard life since you can\'t really
navigate it with anything larger than a passenger car.

Most of the affected intersections were either two-way stops or no stop
signs at all. On narrow residential streets where typical speeds are 25
mph or less drivers seem to have been able to work out negotiating
unsigned intersections without running into each other.

There are some like that here and I\'ve had several near misses. From one direction it looks like you\'re on the main road and the other guy is in a side road. But from his angle he thinks he\'s on the main road. There should always be give way lines. Mind you, the ones with give way lines they never repaint them, so they disappear. They have no money left after spending ****£10,000 PER SPEED BUMP****

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 10:17:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 12/06/2023 18:03, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:39:19 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

Yes, I know - but many drivers still can\'t get the hang of them.
Mini-roundabouts don\'t exist, and they still prefer the \'Four Way Stop\'

Some of the residential intersections have adopted mini-roundabouts.
Essentially you take a normal intersection and plant flowers in the
middle. The flowers tend to have a hard life since you can\'t really
navigate it with anything larger than a passenger car.

Most of the affected intersections were either two-way stops or no stop
signs at all. On narrow residential streets where typical speeds are 25
mph or less drivers seem to have been able to work out negotiating
unsigned intersections without running into each other.

They work best where traffic density is high and all roads leading to
them have approximately equal traffic.

They don\'t need to be equal. To have a gap for you to get out of road A, you simply need someone to turn into road A off the roundabout. So road A gets the same number of cars let out as go in.

The theory is that the rules are very simple. Give way to traffic on the
roundabout. This is a lot easier than a 4 way stop.

No, you give way to traffic on the right (or left in the USA). There\'s no point in giving way to traffic going away from you.

And in light traffic they do not result in a mandatory stop either.

Used for their own sake in inappropiate locations they are crap.

There are a pair of them here. A 3 mile long road with a couple of farm roads at two points. So they put roundabouts on them. Virtually never is anyone using the farm road.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 10:49:04 +0100, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

\"The Natural Philosopher\" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:u69c6s$3hshm$1@dont-email.me...
On 12/06/2023 18:03, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:39:19 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

Yes, I know - but many drivers still can\'t get the hang of them.
Mini-roundabouts don\'t exist, and they still prefer the \'Four Way Stop\'

Some of the residential intersections have adopted mini-roundabouts.
Essentially you take a normal intersection and plant flowers in the
middle. The flowers tend to have a hard life since you can\'t really
navigate it with anything larger than a passenger car.

Most of the affected intersections were either two-way stops or no stop
signs at all. On narrow residential streets where typical speeds are 25
mph or less drivers seem to have been able to work out negotiating
unsigned intersections without running into each other.

They work best where traffic density is high and all roads leading to them
have approximately equal traffic.

The theory is that the rules are very simple. Give way to traffic on the
roundabout. This is a lot easier than a 4 way stop.

And in light traffic they do not result in a mandatory stop either.

Used for their own sake in inappropiate locations they are crap.

The problem with mini roundabouts is their very small radius so they are
very tight. Essentially a white disc is painted on a road whose kerbs are
designed for a cross roads, so you need to slow to a crawl to turn very hard
left to get onto the roundabout and then very hard right to go round it, and
then very hard left to leave. Ok, so a lot of people drive over the painted
disc, using it as a means to establish priority while still allowing you to
take the normal straight-on or turn-right path that you would take at a
cross roads. When the disc is painted, that it OK in the Highway Code, but
some roundabouts are raised and you are supposed (somehow!) to steer round
them.

I wasn\'t aware of that rule. I thought I was breaking the law driving over the paint, especially since once many people do it, theres no more paint.

Larger roundabouts are fine: they work well and (crucially) you don\'t have
to stop completely if you can see that your way is clear; small roundabouts
retro-fitted into unsuitable kerbs are a pain.

Except when they put up stupid green posts like this. The idea is since you can\'t see if your way is clear, you have to stop. All this does is either make everything slower, or make people not see something is coming and crash. I wonder how much all those pointless posts cost? The google camera can see over them, a driver in a passenger car cannot:

https://goo.gl/maps/mB8KDVDV6i68nfFT7

And then you have multiple roundabouts. The one in Hemel Hempstead is OK,
because it is arranged predictably and logically, with a mini roundabout at
each entrance to the junction, distributed around a large central roundabout
that you may negotiate in either direction, using which ever is the shorter
route.

Who the fuck designed that shit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead)#/media/File:Magic_Roundabout_in_Hemel_Hempstead.JPG
So you get a shorter route by distance, but as you go round the main roundabout, you have to keep giving way. Time consuming and petrol consuming. Where are the environmentalists when you need them?

The \"Magic Roundabout\" in Swindon is a dangerous mess, because the
roundabouts are plonked at random and there is no recovery route if you go
the wrong way, whereas a conventional roundabout allows you to go round
again if you have missed your turning. Any fool can improve road safety by
forcing traffic to slow to a crawl because of confusion or tight turns; it
takes skill to design a junction which causes minimal queuing and
maintaining good throughput of traffic.

You do not improve road safety with confusion. Confusion means nobody is sure where they\'re supposed to go and will slam into someone.

I used to live in Bracknell and it was said that the Transport and Road
Research Laboratory in Crowthorne, nearby, used Bracknell to experiment with
roundabout design. There was one roundabout (I forget which one) which was a
rounded square, with a point at each entry, so if you wanted to go 3/4 round
it, you had to keep moving your steering wheel back and forth to go round an
island which was not a constant radius of curvature.

An excellent way fo causing skids or wearing out cars.

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to research road transport?

Anything is better than the American four-way-stop junctions. They fail
badly (as far as I am concerned) for two reasons: they force everyone to
stop even if there is no other traffic; they rely on *time* of arrival to
determine who goes next, whereas UK junctions always use *position* (traffic
on minor road gives way to traffic on major road, or traffic wanting to
enter a roundabout gives way to traffic coming from the right which is
already on the roundabout). The best junctions are those where everyone can
agree who has priority over whom, based on position and road markings; the
worst (which we mostly avoid in the UK) is a junction where everyone has
equal priority and no-one has a f-ing clue who should go next. At least all
(most) cross roads in the UK which don\'t have lights or a roundabout have a
clearly defined and marked/signed major road and minor road. not a meeting
of two roads of equal status which is a recipe for a free-for-all.

Indeed, I\'d never remember who arrived first. Not sure how they work at all. Do Americans have amazing short term memories?

I was watching a driver\'s eye view of a car journey in the early 60s and at
one roundabout the driver commented that he would go ahead and not give way
to traffic from his left. Looks as if the priority-from-the-right rule at
roundabouts was less well understood in those days. He made it sound as if
in those days it was a matter of courtesy who went first, rather than a rule
that was defined in the Highway Code.

Sounds like France, where they have to put up signs telling people who has priority. They used to (and still do in some towns) have the fucking insane idea you must be polite. Always let someone out of a side road. I scared the shit out of a Frenchman when I didn\'t. At well over the speed limit. I think they also have a law stating you must help someone who\'s injured. Fuck off, I\'ll be charitable if I have the time and think I\'ll be useful, and I like the look of the idiot who\'s fucked up. If you have a beard, you stay where you are.

There was a junction (Ryde seafront, on the Isle of Wight) always caught me
out because I saw it as a roundabout and then had to think \"on this
occasion, priority from the right does *not* apply\". I think it was this one
https://goo.gl/maps/YjwzFiEKv92xPs5d8 which would seem to have been
redesigned since I was last there - or maybe I\'ve not got the correct
location.

I can\'t work out WTF that is. Is it some kind of layby? You turn left off the road the camera car is on, and all you get is a no entry sign and a road back onto where you were.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 11:36:26 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 13/06/2023 10:49, NY wrote:
\"The Natural Philosopher\" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:u69c6s$3hshm$1@dont-email.me...
On 12/06/2023 18:03, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:39:19 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

Yes, I know - but many drivers still can\'t get the hang of them.
Mini-roundabouts don\'t exist, and they still prefer the \'Four Way Stop\'

Some of the residential intersections have adopted mini-roundabouts.
Essentially you take a normal intersection and plant flowers in the
middle. The flowers tend to have a hard life since you can\'t really
navigate it with anything larger than a passenger car.

Most of the affected intersections were either two-way stops or no stop
signs at all. On narrow residential streets where typical speeds are 25
mph or less drivers seem to have been able to work out negotiating
unsigned intersections without running into each other.

They work best where traffic density is high and all roads leading to
them have approximately equal traffic.

The theory is that the rules are very simple. Give way to traffic on
the roundabout. This is a lot easier than a 4 way stop.

And in light traffic they do not result in a mandatory stop either.

Used for their own sake in inappropiate locations they are crap.

The problem with mini roundabouts is their very small radius so they are
very tight. Essentially a white disc is painted on a road whose kerbs
are designed for a cross roads, so you need to slow to a crawl to turn
very hard left to get onto the roundabout and then very hard right to go
round it, and then very hard left to leave. Ok, so a lot of people drive
over the painted disc, using it as a means to establish priority while
still allowing you to take the normal straight-on or turn-right path
that you would take at a cross roads. When the disc is painted, that it
OK in the Highway Code, but some roundabouts are raised and you are
supposed (somehow!) to steer round them.

That was the original rule in the Highway code. Some anti-car bureaucrat
changed that to it being illegal to cross them

And never told anyone. Why do they think they can just change laws and catch people out? Are we supposed to study every new law as it comes out?

Here\'s an idea, make every law sensible. Then we just follow common sense and know we\'re not breaking the law.

So those white circles aren\'t speed bumps then?
It wears my car out less not to swerve round them, it also means I have less chance of skidding.

Larger roundabouts are fine: they work well and (crucially) you don\'t
have to stop completely if you can see that your way is clear; small
roundabouts retro-fitted into unsuitable kerbs are a pain.

AS a mark of priority they are excellent,. As a thing you must drive
around it is almost EU like in its petty bureaucratic enforcement of
stupid rules, just because you can.

I\'ve never been in trouble for roundabouting, what are you referring to?

Anything is better than the American four-way-stop junctions. They fail
badly (as far as I am concerned) for two reasons: they force everyone to
stop even if there is no other traffic; they rely on *time* of arrival
to determine who goes next, whereas UK junctions always use *position*
(traffic on minor road gives way to traffic on major road, or traffic
wanting to enter a roundabout gives way to traffic coming from the right
which is already on the roundabout). The best junctions are those where
everyone can agree who has priority over whom, based on position and
road markings; the worst (which we mostly avoid in the UK) is a junction
where everyone has equal priority and no-one has a f-ing clue who should
go next. At least all (most) cross roads in the UK which don\'t have
lights or a roundabout have a clearly defined and marked/signed major
road and minor road. not a meeting of two roads of equal status which is
a recipe for a free-for-all.

OTOH, on very light traffic, where more than one car waiting is a
rarity, they are fine

I was on a fast straight cross country road near here, when I saw a
vehicle coming on a road at right angles. Assuming I had right of way I
kept going until I finally saw the dreaded triangle of \'give way\' I only
just stopped in time.

In towns there are so many signs, you never spot those. And if the give way white lines on the road aren\'t there, you just keep going.

At leats with a 4 way stop you know you have to stop

I was watching a driver\'s eye view of a car journey in the early 60s and
at one roundabout the driver commented that he would go ahead and not
give way to traffic from his left. Looks as if the
priority-from-the-right rule at roundabouts was less well understood in
those days. He made it sound as if in those days it was a matter of
courtesy who went first, rather than a rule that was defined in the
Highway Code.

By the time I passed my test in the 60s, it was well drilled into you as
part of the highway code. Prior to that and indeed prior to 1956,
roundabouts existed but there were no formalised rules

There was a junction (Ryde seafront, on the Isle of Wight) always caught
me out because I saw it as a roundabout and then had to think \"on this
occasion, priority from the right does *not* apply\". I think it was this
one https://goo.gl/maps/YjwzFiEKv92xPs5d8 which would seem to have been
redesigned since I was last there - or maybe I\'ve not got the correct
location.
I remember hitching on the exit to a roundabout in the West country and
seeing a small family car drive onto the roundabout without slowing and
get hit by a substantial l big saloon that had it up on two wheels and
nearly flipping..

Not as bad as the car that I saw roll over twice, who was obeying the
speed limit but failed to notice that concrete piece of \'traffic
calming\' placed directly in his path.

We should make the council legally responsible for every accident caused by those stupid things. Actually jail a council member.

Road rules have moved from \'keep cars moving, give them hazard warnings
and clear simple rules\' to \'if possible fuck the motorist up at every
possible turn, stop them for no reason at traffic lights that have no
traffic, tax him, fine him and wreck his car for him\'.

You can use traffic calming to your advantage. If you\'re going double the speed limit, the car coming the other way will stop, regardless of who is supposed to.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 17:32:27 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 12/06/2023 16:39, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message <keopp8Fj6o3U1@mid.individual.net>, S Viemeister
firstname@lastname.oc.ku> writes
On 12/06/2023 13:56, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message
1662384064.708249629.795394.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> writes

There seem to be
quite a few US driving rules that could be usefully adopted here (but
almost certainly never will be).

\'Left turn on red\' (obviously left in the UK) would be one of them.
But what could we offer them in return? I believe the Americans are
rather suspicious of alien imports (especially the new-fangled thing
called \'The Roundabout\') .

Some parts of the US have had roundabouts, AKA \'traffic circles\' for
decades.

Yes, I know - but many drivers still can\'t get the hang of them.

I think that they were initially against the idea, as the first versions
were very different to ours, with cars on the roundabout having to give
way to those entering - leading to no end of chaos and accidents.

How stupid do you have to be to think it\'s ok to add more cars to the roundabout before letting them leave?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 20:18:55 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 17:32:27 +0100, SteveW wrote:

I think that they were initially against the idea, as the first versions
were very different to ours, with cars on the roundabout having to give
way to those entering - leading to no end of chaos and accidents.

In the \'70s I had to get a Massachusetts drivers license.

You need a license for each state?

Rotaries and roundabouts were very popular in that state and in studying for the
written exam

I never studied for mine (and they only introduced written in the UK in about 1990), the answers were multiple choice and obvious.

I was surprised to find the only regulation was traffic
must go counterclockwise. When they were jammed up completely, which was
the default state around Boston, right of way was determined by testicular
fortitude or, perhaps in the case of women, obliviousness to pending
disaster. Having a larger, older vehicle like a \'59 Cadillac with
significant body damage helped.

I once played chicken with a policeman. I had a 1988 3.5 litre V8 Range Rover and wanted to change lane in a rather stationary queue. His little 5 door hatchback Vauxhall (GM) shit was in my way. He refused to let me change lane, so being an automatic it was very easy to get it to creep forwards at 0.5mph. At some point he realised the space he wanted to get into to block me was too small, and the vehicle I\'d bought for £300 wouldn\'t suffer much damage. He gave me a snarl and I gave him a smile.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 20:34:35 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 17:32:27 +0100, SteveW wrote:

I think that they were initially against the idea, as the first versions
were very different to ours, with cars on the roundabout having to give
way to those entering - leading to no end of chaos and accidents.

In the \'70s I had to get a Massachusetts drivers license. Rotaries and
roundabouts were very popular in that state and in studying for the
written exam I was surprised to find that the only regulation was traffic
must go counterclockwise.

That was apparently a study failure on your part. The rule in MA
has always been that traffic already in a roundabout has the right-of-way;
traffic in roteries depends on site signage, most are signed that incoming
traffic must yield.

Why do Americans confuse the term for the amount of crop produced with the term for letting someone else go first?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 11:00:12 +0100, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

In message <u69cuh$3hshm$3@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
On 12/06/2023 21:31, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message <frKhM.16126$sXTc.15557@fx11.iad>, Scott Lurndal
scott@slp53.sl.home> writes
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 17:32:27 +0100, SteveW wrote:

I think that they were initially against the idea, as the first
versions
were very different to ours, with cars on the roundabout having to give
way to those entering - leading to no end of chaos and accidents.

In the \'70s I had to get a Massachusetts drivers license. Rotaries and
roundabouts were very popular in that state and in studying for the
written exam I was surprised to find that the only regulation was
traffic
must go counterclockwise.

That was apparently a study failure on your part. The rule in MA
has always been that traffic already in a roundabout has the
right-of-way;
traffic in roteries depends on site signage, most are signed that
incoming
traffic must yield.

Without checking, I\'m not sure when we first had roundabouts
(full-size and mini) in the UK. However, with very few exceptions,
the rule has always been \'priority to traffic on your right\'. As we
drive on the left, and circulate clockwise, this means that traffic
on the roundabout has priority, and traffic on the left (entering the
roundabout) must give way. [There are some rare, well-marked exceptions.]

I cannot remember a time without roundabouts so it must be earlier
than around 1955...

DOT says 1956, but I lived on a roundaboiut as the turnaround end of a
private road cul de sac from 1953, and no one went round that the
\'wrong way\'


I don\'t know when Continental Europe (where, like the USA, they drive
on the right) adopted roundabouts, but historically, in many
countries, they had a legendary \'priority to the right\' rule for all
road junctions. This meant that you could be hacking along a major
road, and someone could come straight into your path from a side-road
on the right. This meant that traffic already circulating
anti-clockwise on a roundabout had to give way to traffic entering
(from the right). The obvious consequence was that a busy roundabout
could soon seize up solid. [I recall being obliged to drive three
times around the Arc de Triomphe in Paris before being able to peal
off down one of the side roads.]

Yep, BTDTGTTS. To ceate a fuckup takes a bureaucrat, To create a world
class clusterfuck takes a French bureaucrat...They now work for the EU.


In more recent years, the European \'priority to the right\' rule was
relaxed and replaced. On roundabouts, traffic on a roundabout now
usually does have priority, and traffic joining or crossing main roads
no longer are allowed to barge in from the right. However, in the
absence of signs specifically indicating that the \'priority to the
right\' rule does not apply, \'priority to the right\' is still the
default situation.

Which is fun when you are barrelling down a dual carriageway at 115mph
and some Belgian decides to pull out on to it, and then panic and start
changing lanes randomly in an effort to get out of your way. I didn\'t
care if I passed right or left, but a weaving car presented a problem...

IIRC, the Arc de Triomphe (Place de l\'Etoile) roundabout was sanitized
about 30 years ago. Also, these days you\'re unlikely to find \'priority
to the right\' on busy roads.

Must be pretty OCD to apply bleach to a road.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:41:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid..invalid> wrote:

On 26/06/2023 13:24, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-06-26, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <op.1640mzrcmvhs6z@ryzen>, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 15:14:56 +0100, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 07:31:13 -0400, devnull <devnull@alt.home.repair
wrote:

On 6/6/2023 7:22 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/06/2023 11:56, me wrote:
On 6/5/2023 11:40 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:


Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the
engine off for a minute.

The money you might save on gas you\'ll spend replacing the starter
motor.
As usual kinsey is exactly wrong, as are you

The more you use the starter, the sooner it will wear out.

The only motor in a Tesla is an electric motor.

Idiot, all motors are electric.

Funny, I thought they were all \"motor cars\" whatever the engine type..

https://www.kia.com/dm/discover-kia/ask/is-an-engine-a-motor.html

\"People use both interchangeably, but the difference is that motors run
on electricity and engines run on combustion. The engine converts
various forms of fuels into mechanical force, while the motor transforms
electrical energy into mechanical energy.”

Total bollocks. What does a siege engine run on? Kia are not native
English speakers and no ArtStudent making a car company website knows
anything aboyut eithert engineering, which is more that designing
engines for cars - or the Engllsh slangauge

Engine comes from \'ingenuity\' motor comes from \'motion\'.

An engine, or engyne, is a complex (mechanical) device no more and no
less. These days it might also be software - \'database engine\' etc etc..
Engineering is the art and science of devising complex systems to
achieve certain tasks.

A motor is a device that imparts motion. Like a gas turbine in a
loco*motive*, or a diesel engine.

Meanwhile in the 21st century, motor for electricity, engine for petrol.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:55:56 +0100, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

On 6/26/2023 8:26 PM, Greta Thunburg wrote:
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-06-26, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <op.1640mzrcmvhs6z@ryzen>, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 15:14:56 +0100, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 07:31:13 -0400, devnull <devnull@alt.home.repair
wrote:

On 6/6/2023 7:22 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/06/2023 11:56, me wrote:
On 6/5/2023 11:40 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the
engine off for a minute.
The money you might save on gas you\'ll spend replacing the starter
motor.
As usual kinsey is exactly wrong, as are you
The more you use the starter, the sooner it will wear out.
The only motor in a Tesla is an electric motor.
Idiot, all motors are electric.
Funny, I thought they were all \"motor cars\" whatever the engine type.
https://www.kia.com/dm/discover-kia/ask/is-an-engine-a-motor.html

\"People use both interchangeably, but the difference is that motors run
on electricity and engines run on combustion. The engine converts
various forms of fuels into mechanical force, while the motor transforms
electrical energy into mechanical energy.”


Toyota Motor Corporation
Ford Motor Company
General Motors


The root of “motor” is the Latin movere, which means “to move,” which is
a pretty literal definition of what a “motor” does.

Automobiles move people, it motors them along.

I say car, not automobile. I ain\'t Latin.