Only one EV charger at home?!...

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment to
your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially
since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off. The brakes vanished.


--
\"What do you think about Gay Marriage?\"
\"I don\'t.\"
\"Don\'t what?\"
\"Think about Gay Marriage.\"

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 19/04/2023 21:48, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:52:52 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,

where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.
Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that says
you can not drive manuals.

Really, here in the 21st century, manual transmissions make as much
sense as dial phones.

Not really. They are simpler cheaper and slightly more efficient.
And give greater control of the vehicle.

Which the kids can\'t use either.

--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

\"Saki\"

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 20/04/2023 00:57, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:03:47 +0100, SteveW wrote:

With ours is depends upon the mode set (ECO, Normal, Sport) and the
regeneration level set (None, medium, Strong). I generally have it set
to give more \"engine braking\" than an ICE car, but not so much that it
catches me out.

Or the driver behind you... At least in the US it takes brake lights to
convince some drivers you\'re slowing down. On a bike I often flick the
brake even though I can almost come to a complete stop running down
through the gears.

At least F1 cars put the light on when regenerating. I assume EVs are
the same

--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

\"Saki\"

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 20/04/2023 02:27, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:04:28 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

And ours are 50 litres per minute (that\'s my full tank). You have
bigger cars with slower petrol....

You haven\'t seen anything until you\'ve seen a pickup with dual tanks. I
remember those sunny days of yore when gas pumps only went up to $99.99.

My tank only holds 42 liters. What sort of whale do you drive?
440 mile range XF

--
\"What do you think about Gay Marriage?\"
\"I don\'t.\"
\"Don\'t what?\"
\"Think about Gay Marriage.\"

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 20/04/2023 03:06, John Larkin wrote:

Strange how many men shout that constantly, but I\'ve never met a woman
who does.

Lovely lady I met was talking about curry - \'Ring Sting\' was the phrase.

--
\"What do you think about Gay Marriage?\"
\"I don\'t.\"
\"Don\'t what?\"
\"Think about Gay Marriage.\"

 

[Theo]

In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town. These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

Presumably you\'re still using the brakes though? eg if you\'re driving at
speed on the motorway and the tail lights come on in front of you, you\'re
not reaching for the gear stick to change down instead of braking?

Theo

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 20/04/2023 11:00, Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town. These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

Presumably you\'re still using the brakes though? eg if you\'re driving at
speed on the motorway and the tail lights come on in front of you, you\'re
not reaching for the gear stick to change down instead of braking?

Theo
Not unless your brakes are US, no.

I vividly remember using the engine and handbrake to avoid the people
who were overtaking me and slamming their brakes on when my master
cylinder hydraulic line fractured


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

 

[charles]

In article <Jcq*rneez@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town. These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they
expect to need as the set off or speed up again.

Presumably you\'re still using the brakes though? eg if you\'re driving at
speed on the motorway and the tail lights come on in front of you, you\'re
not reaching for the gear stick to change down instead of braking?

A friend tried \"Engine breaking\" at speed on the M1 for that reason. The
engine broke.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
\"I\'d rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom\" Thomas Carlyle

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.

Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have seen
are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.

That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.

Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

....

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-20 01:07, SteveW wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:07, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

Both.  With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine
braking, but
you coast if you open the clutch.  Without actively changing down gear
the
amount of engine braking is not massive - if you purely let off the
accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top gear you don\'t get very
much
retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy
about it
unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to use the brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it very
often.

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town. These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

My brakes last over 100000 Km. I barely use them. The clutch lasts over
200000, by which time the car has to be recycled, anyway. Too old.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 22:55, Ed Lee wrote:

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 1:43:03 PM UTC-7, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 12:54 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment to
your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially
since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Are there real modern cars (except Russian) that are not \"by wire\"? Non-powered brakes?

My Opel Corsa. Braking is assisted, not by wire, AFAIK.

I suspect that there is a range of pedal motion that works that way, and
an always apply friction brakes range beyond that. But maybe not.

On-board BMS estimates how much power can be pumped back to the battery. Beyond that, use friction brakes.

Ok, but physically, how does that work?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 22:48, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:52:52 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,

where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.
Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that says
you can not drive manuals.

Really, here in the 21st century, manual transmissions make as much
sense as dial phones.

Here, gasoline is very expensive. 1.7€ a litre. A lot of that are taxes.
Due to that, our cars tend to be small, and designed to drink little. An
automatic shift uses more gasoline, so people really prefer manual shift
cars.

In 2017, automatics were 10% of the market. In 2020, one source says
they are 30% of new vehicles.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-20 01:30, SteveW wrote:

On 18/04/2023 22:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-18 02:32, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:47:56 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-18 00:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:08:37 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 19:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:54:02 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 10:18, Martin Brown wrote:
On 16/04/2023 22:02, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 21:07, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:32:36 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
On 16/04/2023 20:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-16 20:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 19:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:18:20 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
On 16/04/2023 08:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/features/do-you-need-two-home-charge-points-if-you-have-two-evs/

\"Some products will have the ability to
“load share”, which means they will
communicate with each if two vehicles are
plugged in. In this scenario, they will
evenly split the power available so both cars charge at
the same rate, but this
will be at around 3-3.6kW – in other words half of the
available 7.4kW from
the supply.\"

WTF?  A UK home supply is 24kW.

The most common UK domestic contract is for a 17kVA supply.

Bollocks.  240V, 100A.  Never seen anything else.

There are also 80A and 60A main breakers, but
the limit to what you can draw is not what the
circuit is rated for, but what your contract with the
electricity supply company specifies
you can have.

Do you have some kind of hardware enforcing the limit?

I didn\'t work in the Commercial section, which was
responsible for the meter and company fuses, so I
don\'t know whether there was a limiter. As the
standing charges were based upon the contracted
supply, I assume there must have been some way to
enforce it.

There isn\'t.

That is a mere assumption on your part.

The meters only monitor how much you\'ve used, not how
fast you were using it.

They want you to use more, so they make more money!

\'They\' don\'t want anybody to exceed the capacity of the incomer.

The incomers in even quite old houses from the 1970\'s are
typically good for 100A though they are like mine often
fused at 60A or 80A. Our VH has exactly the same cabling
and 100A on each of the two available phases.

I expect just like with he 13A fuse in practice the
nominal 100A fuse will pass a considerably higher current
for a while before it fails.

My meter limits to 10A. This is an ancient contract, and the
meter is
modern, so in actual fact it can not limit under 15A. Design fault.

However, there is an external fuse on the external house
wall, which I think is 60A, and that is a hard limit. It
can not have a big margin because the company wires will
not take the current and will melt the insulation.

I don\'t understand how you can live with 10A.  Are you in a
tent?  No
dishwasher, washing machine, kettle, microwave, computer, lights,
etc?

Well, I have all of that, except that the kettle is plain, not
electric, and the dishwasher has been broken for decades.

My dishwasher and washing machine both use 2-3kW.  That would be a bit
of a problem in your house.

Not really. When it was working, we put it on then went to sleep. All
the house was off except the machine.

But only one of them.  And not a quiet sleep.

Oh, very quiet. This house is big, there is some distance. Different
floor, and 4 doors between.

Modern machines are very quiet anyway. Our tumble-dryer is almost
inaudible. The (direct drive) washing machine is unnoticeable when
talking and hardly gets any louder when spinning!

You certainly don\'t notice them in the next room - even with the doors
open.

Oh, that dish washing machine did a heck of a rack when it was new. My
father got it in the late 70\'s, I think.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:40:57 AM UTC-7, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-19 22:55, Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 1:43:03 PM UTC-7, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 12:54 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment to
your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially
since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Are there real modern cars (except Russian) that are not \"by wire\"? Non-powered brakes?

My Opel Corsa. Braking is assisted, not by wire, AFAIK.


I suspect that there is a range of pedal motion that works that way, and
an always apply friction brakes range beyond that. But maybe not.

On-board BMS estimates how much power can be pumped back to the battery.. Beyond that, use friction brakes.

Ok, but physically, how does that work?

Digitally, the voltage/current are controlled by the BMS based on State of Health/Charge (SOH/SOC). However, it is not optimized with the same motor. The traction motor is designed to work under the battery voltage. In theory, we want regen voltage to be over the battery voltage.

I get around 2 miles/KWh round-trip over 150ft elevation vs. 3 mi/KWh on level land. So, down slope brake/regen may be 50% efficient. There is room for improvement. I am thinking about adding a fifth wheel regenerating alternator.

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-04-20, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.

Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have seen
are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.


That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.

Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

Back in the 1970s when I learned to drive, they didn\'t think manual
transmissions were sufficiently important to teach. (A friend of mine
taught me to drive stick shift a few years after I got my license.)

We had to provide our own car for the driving test, which was
administered by the government agency that licenses drivers.

There\'s no differentiation between manual and automatic transmissions
in the licensing of drivers, and I don\'t think there ever has been.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 20. april 2023 kl. 00.28.07 UTC+2 skrev Rod Speed:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid
wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where
regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive
with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.
Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

here the driving school and the test in the driving school\'s car
And if you take your license in an automatic you are not allowed to drive a manual

 

[S Viemeister]

On 20/04/2023 14:03, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On 2023-04-20, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.

Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have seen
are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.


That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.

Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

Back in the 1970s when I learned to drive, they didn\'t think manual
transmissions were sufficiently important to teach. (A friend of mine
taught me to drive stick shift a few years after I got my license.)

We had to provide our own car for the driving test, which was
administered by the government agency that licenses drivers.

There\'s no differentiation between manual and automatic transmissions
in the licensing of drivers, and I don\'t think there ever has been.

Unless it\'s changed recently, UK driving licences specify manual or
automatic.

 

[SteveW]

On 20/04/2023 10:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 20/04/2023 00:57, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:03:47 +0100, SteveW wrote:

With ours is depends upon the mode set (ECO, Normal, Sport) and the
regeneration level set (None, medium, Strong). I generally have it set
to give more \"engine braking\" than an ICE car, but not so much that it
catches me out.

Or the driver behind you...  At least in the US it takes brake lights to
convince some drivers you\'re slowing down. On a bike I often flick the
brake even though I can almost come to a complete stop running down
through the gears.
At least F1 cars put the light on when regenerating. I assume EVs are
the same

If they are slowing fast enough to need it. Usually for that to be the
case, you\'d either be braking anyway or the cruise control would be
doing it for you as you catch up with the vehicle in front.

 

[SteveW]

On 20/04/2023 01:08, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:54:17 +0100, SteveW wrote:

The Robin Hood kit-car is just for fun and also awaiting an MOT when the
weather gets better.

That\'s another Lotus Seven variant? I only knew about Caterham. Getting
one of those into the US is an arcane process.

RH were the cheap end of the market, with poor standards and an awful
build video rather than a manual. Not bolt together like a Caterham -
you had to do a lot of measuring, cutting, bending and drilling
yourself, but you could get a very good outcome cheaply, however, it was
a lot more work.

They were unusual in that, for many years, they did not consist of body
panels over a space-frame, but were of monocoque construction ... many
in stainless-steel no less!

Heavier than many others too, but still a car that weighed less than a
classic Mini, but sat lower and wider, with the engine behind the front
axle line and with the ability to put a whole variety of engines in
(from motorbike engines, up to [one factory example only] a V12 jaguar
engine) so great fun.

In their peak years, they sold around 500 kits per year.

Eventually the company was sold to Great British Sport Cars, who
produced a more conventional kit. They actually produce a kit designed
for the US, where people have successfully built and registered them.

 

[SteveW]

On 20/04/2023 11:00, Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town. These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

Presumably you\'re still using the brakes though? eg if you\'re driving at
speed on the motorway and the tail lights come on in front of you, you\'re
not reaching for the gear stick to change down instead of braking?

It depends upon the situation. If you spot a problem early enough, you
lift off the accelerator and let the car slow with engine braking,
changing down as the revs drop to a level suitable to do so.

With less warning or about town, you combine engine braking and use of
the brakes.

We even less warning, you don\'t change down, just dip the clutch just
before coming to a stop, to avoid stalling the engine.