R
Robert Baer
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
Navigation
Install the app
How to install the app on iOS
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
More options
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
R
Robert Baer
Guest
amdx wrote:
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
WHY a physical switch?
Paint a (thin?) stripe on the shaft and use optics to pick off a
pulse, thereby giving you easy microsecond capability.
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its mechanicalI wanted to make a turns counter for my drill press.
I have it set for 330 RPMs or about 6 cycles per second.
 It doesn't work. Unreliable counting.
 My high point is (switch closure time) about 1/12 of the rotation, I
wonder if I did a 50/50 duty cycle if it would be better.
Or, is expecting the switch to operate at 6Hz just to fast for a
standard microswitch?
                                Mikek
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
WHY a physical switch?
Paint a (thin?) stripe on the shaft and use optics to pick off a
pulse, thereby giving you easy microsecond capability.
R
Rick C
Guest
On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 8:12:34 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
Because he's driving an electromechanical counter.
--
Rick C.
-+- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
amdx wrote:
I wanted to make a turns counter for my drill press.
I have it set for 330 RPMs or about 6 cycles per second.
 It doesn't work. Unreliable counting.
 My high point is (switch closure time) about 1/12 of the rotation, I
wonder if I did a 50/50 duty cycle if it would be better.
Or, is expecting the switch to operate at 6Hz just to fast for a
standard microswitch?
                                Mikek
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
WHY a physical switch?
Paint a (thin?) stripe on the shaft and use optics to pick off a
pulse, thereby giving you easy microsecond capability.
Because he's driving an electromechanical counter.
--
Rick C.
-+- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
L
Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 02.30.32 UTC+2 skrev Phil Allison:
https://youtu.be/x4im3M9IFcI
Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on the rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and down - I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.... Phil
https://youtu.be/x4im3M9IFcI
Guest
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote in
news:a3ef8cf4-9df4-4334-9d56-fad3fee02bd8@googlegroups.com:
I'll bet if he switched from hard switched to SSRs and a programmed
power waveform, that little thing could make some real 'work'
numbers.
I wonder what using litle magnet slugs on the pistons would do for
the resultant 'power' (at the shaft).
Cool little machinist. Nice job.
news:a3ef8cf4-9df4-4334-9d56-fad3fee02bd8@googlegroups.com:
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 02.30.32 UTC+2 skrev Phil
Allison:
Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its
mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so
microswitch is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec
at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal
actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on the
rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and down -
I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
.... Phil
https://youtu.be/x4im3M9IFcI
I'll bet if he switched from hard switched to SSRs and a programmed
power waveform, that little thing could make some real 'work'
numbers.
I wonder what using litle magnet slugs on the pistons would do for
the resultant 'power' (at the shaft).
Cool little machinist. Nice job.
Guest
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:30:27 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
Was your drive mechanically push-pull? The mass of the lever and the
spring return force inside the switch probably limits return speed and
rep rate.
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on the rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and down - I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
Was your drive mechanically push-pull? The mass of the lever and the
spring return force inside the switch probably limits return speed and
rep rate.
R
Robert Baer
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
So, maybe about 10mSec max?
That is 18mSec, better than my pseudo-educated guess.Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on the rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and down - I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.... Phil
So, maybe about 10mSec max?
L
Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 19.50.24 UTC+2 skrev Robert Baer:
you are missing the point. it is a a toy which main purpose is to be an
excuse to to play with his other toys (machine tools)
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 02.30.32 UTC+2 skrev Phil Allison:
Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on the rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and down - I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.... Phil
https://youtu.be/x4im3M9IFcI
He sure LOVES Loctite.
Inefficient construction,more steps than needed.
Fur starters, that solenoid could have been machined as one part.
And those "dumbell" shaped items could have been made as if a thick
PCB trace, or CNC or molding.
you are missing the point. it is a a toy which main purpose is to be an
excuse to to play with his other toys (machine tools)
R
Robert Baer
Guest
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Inefficient construction,more steps than needed.
Fur starters, that solenoid could have been machined as one part.
And those "dumbell" shaped items could have been made as if a thick
PCB trace, or CNC or molding.
He sure LOVES Loctite.fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 02.30.32 UTC+2 skrev Phil Allison:
Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on the rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and down - I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.... Phil
https://youtu.be/x4im3M9IFcI
Inefficient construction,more steps than needed.
Fur starters, that solenoid could have been machined as one part.
And those "dumbell" shaped items could have been made as if a thick
PCB trace, or CNC or molding.
L
Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 17.09.23 UTC+2 skrev DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
it's a toy, nothing is going to make it make anything useful
there's reasons electric motors are not made that way
sure and that was the main purpose, an excuse to spend some time playing
with machine tools
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote in
news:a3ef8cf4-9df4-4334-9d56-fad3fee02bd8@googlegroups.com:
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 02.30.32 UTC+2 skrev Phil
Allison:
Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its
mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so
microswitch is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec
at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal
actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on the
rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and down -
I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
.... Phil
https://youtu.be/x4im3M9IFcI
I'll bet if he switched from hard switched to SSRs and a programmed
power waveform, that little thing could make some real 'work'
numbers.
it's a toy, nothing is going to make it make anything useful
there's reasons electric motors are not made that way
I wonder what using litle magnet slugs on the pistons would do for
the resultant 'power' (at the shaft).
Cool little machinist. Nice job.
sure and that was the main purpose, an excuse to spend some time playing
with machine tools
W
whit3rd
Guest
On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 8:09:23 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
SSR switching for DC power into an inductive (solenoid) load? Not
a happy combination. A Sziklai pair would be appropriate, and the
solenoid speed might benefit from some lossy snubbers anyhow.
For the price of a good SSR, you could replace the counter with a
solid-state LCD module that runs off a watch battery.
I'll bet if he switched from hard switched to SSRs and a programmed
power waveform...
SSR switching for DC power into an inductive (solenoid) load? Not
a happy combination. A Sziklai pair would be appropriate, and the
solenoid speed might benefit from some lossy snubbers anyhow.
For the price of a good SSR, you could replace the counter with a
solid-state LCD module that runs off a watch battery.
Guest
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote in
news:c7a9c711-20d0-407f-8322-6efe6f457707@googlegroups.com:
And I saw super glue, and not much loctite. Maybe my attention
shifted a couple moments...
I think it would have exhibited more power if the pistons had rare
earth magnets glued onto the ends (or in the center of them). Then
they are linear motors instead of solenoids.
He probably made them slide to closely together as well, as I saw
the oil grooves. No need to make a solenoid piston that tightly
toleranced, so a lot of juice is lost just reciprocating them
slugging so closely together in oil no less. Loose would work
better, with the only difference being noise level.
I would have made Aluminum slugs with coin magnets (the thick ones)
attached. Less reciprocating mass.
news:c7a9c711-20d0-407f-8322-6efe6f457707@googlegroups.com:
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 19.50.24 UTC+2 skrev Robert
Baer:
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 02.30.32 UTC+2 skrev Phil
Allison:
Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its
mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so
microswitch is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec
at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal
actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on
the rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and
down - I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
---------------------------------------------------------------
--------
.... Phil
https://youtu.be/x4im3M9IFcI
He sure LOVES Loctite.
Inefficient construction,more steps than needed.
Fur starters, that solenoid could have been machined as one
part. And those "dumbell" shaped items could have been made as
if a thick
PCB trace, or CNC or molding.
you are missing the point. it is a a toy which main purpose is to
be an excuse to to play with his other toys (machine tools)
And I saw super glue, and not much loctite. Maybe my attention
shifted a couple moments...
I think it would have exhibited more power if the pistons had rare
earth magnets glued onto the ends (or in the center of them). Then
they are linear motors instead of solenoids.
He probably made them slide to closely together as well, as I saw
the oil grooves. No need to make a solenoid piston that tightly
toleranced, so a lot of juice is lost just reciprocating them
slugging so closely together in oil no less. Loose would work
better, with the only difference being noise level.
I would have made Aluminum slugs with coin magnets (the thick ones)
attached. Less reciprocating mass.
Guest
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote in news:a4ea942a-
4e2d-446b-9fd2-a895de203a0b@googlegroups.com:
I *know* it is a toy. I did not need you to tell me that.
I came from Cincinnati. I knew what 10,000th inch tolerances were
back in '69 at 9 years of age. I think I can tell a tinker toy from a
Antikythera Mechanism.
It is a simple discussion... about that toy. Sheesh.
4e2d-446b-9fd2-a895de203a0b@googlegroups.com:
it's a toy, nothing is going to make it make anything useful
I *know* it is a toy. I did not need you to tell me that.
I came from Cincinnati. I knew what 10,000th inch tolerances were
back in '69 at 9 years of age. I think I can tell a tinker toy from a
Antikythera Mechanism.
It is a simple discussion... about that toy. Sheesh.
Guest
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
news:727dcdc0-1cf7-4238-9af1-1a3dbc7ee271@googlegroups.com:
It wasn't about the counter. Those switches powered the solenoids
and drove the rotation.
With SSR drive, he could shape the waveform to an optimal input.
The counter is something else. I was not even referring to that.
Maybe he could set the spread of the switch banks to be adjustable,
and thereby find an optimal set point for the switch actuator
locations to optimally fire the solenoids. Sequencing is everything.
news:727dcdc0-1cf7-4238-9af1-1a3dbc7ee271@googlegroups.com:
On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 8:09:23 AM UTC-7,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
I'll bet if he switched from hard switched to SSRs and a
programmed
power waveform...
SSR switching for DC power into an inductive (solenoid) load?
Not a happy combination. A Sziklai pair would be appropriate,
and the solenoid speed might benefit from some lossy snubbers
anyhow. For the price of a good SSR, you could replace the counter
with a solid-state LCD module that runs off a watch battery.
It wasn't about the counter. Those switches powered the solenoids
and drove the rotation.
With SSR drive, he could shape the waveform to an optimal input.
The counter is something else. I was not even referring to that.
Maybe he could set the spread of the switch banks to be adjustable,
and thereby find an optimal set point for the switch actuator
locations to optimally fire the solenoids. Sequencing is everything.
B
Bill Sloman
Guest
On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 12:22:28 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Get a mercury-wetted reed. You have to mount them with-in 15 degrees of vertical, but the mercury stops them twanging and bouncing.
And they are good for 100 million operations, rather than the 10 million you get with regular reeds before the contact resistance rises appreciably.
And the contact resistance is lower, and more stable.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:52:21 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
-------------------------------------------
6 Hz should be OK at 50% duty cycle.
** Bet JL has never tried it.
Microswitch on a drill press? OK, I confess, I've never done that.
But a small microswitch should work at 80 ms on/off time. Do you think
it won't?
I know a reed switch will easily do the job far better.
But I'm not a "designer" . ...
I don't like reeds, at least reed relays with coils. They are
expensive and unreliable. Their rated speeds are illusions, because
they bounce and twang for ages.
Get a mercury-wetted reed. You have to mount them with-in 15 degrees of vertical, but the mercury stops them twanging and bouncing.
And they are good for 100 million operations, rather than the 10 million you get with regular reeds before the contact resistance rises appreciably.
And the contact resistance is lower, and more stable.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Guest
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:ccefca91-b2ed-4246-9bf3-fe172ba8b90f@googlegroups.com:
I thought they solved that with platinum.
Yes, but not cheap.
why has no one mentioned regular old automotive points?
Hundreds of millions of cycles and good to go. Very fast rep rate
too. 6000 RPM engine x 8 cycles per = 800 pulses per second.
With their HV application, still get hundreds of millions if the
condenser match is good.
>
news:ccefca91-b2ed-4246-9bf3-fe172ba8b90f@googlegroups.com:
On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 12:22:28 AM UTC+10,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:52:21 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
-------------------------------------------
6 Hz should be OK at 50% duty cycle.
** Bet JL has never tried it.
Microswitch on a drill press? OK, I confess, I've never done
that.
But a small microswitch should work at 80 ms on/off time. Do you
think it won't?
I know a reed switch will easily do the job far better.
But I'm not a "designer" . ...
I don't like reeds, at least reed relays with coils. They are
expensive and unreliable. Their rated speeds are illusions,
because they bounce and twang for ages.
Get a mercury-wetted reed. You have to mount them with-in 15
degrees of vertical, but the mercury stops them twanging and
bouncing.
And they are good for 100 million operations, rather than the 10
million you get with regular reeds before the contact resistance
rises appreciably.
I thought they solved that with platinum.
And the contact resistance is lower, and more stable.
Yes, but not cheap.
why has no one mentioned regular old automotive points?
Hundreds of millions of cycles and good to go. Very fast rep rate
too. 6000 RPM engine x 8 cycles per = 800 pulses per second.
With their HV application, still get hundreds of millions if the
condenser match is good.
>
R
Rick C
Guest
On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 1:50:24 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
I find it amusing that you are suggesting you know better how to machine than a machinist. I think I understand the reason why he make the solenoid coil forms the way he did. I'm not sure what you are saying about the connecting rods. They are what you mean by "dumbell shaped pieces", no?
--
Rick C.
-++ Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 20. september 2019 kl. 02.30.32 UTC+2 skrev Phil Allison:
Robert Baer wrote:
-------------------
I am guessing that a microswitch is limited by its mechanical
construction, just like a relay (in region of 100mSec), so microswitch
is probably speed limited in the region of 30mSec at best.
.
** See what happens when you "plonk" a serious poster.
------------------------------------------------------
** I just tried a common micro-switch, the kind with a metal actuator and small wheel on the end.
" Cherry Elect. E33 10A 1/2HP 125-250VAC "
With a battery powered drill and using the small bumps on the rubber grip around the chuck to move the actuator up and down - I easily got it to operate at over 60Hz.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.... Phil
https://youtu.be/x4im3M9IFcI
He sure LOVES Loctite.
Inefficient construction,more steps than needed.
Fur starters, that solenoid could have been machined as one part.
And those "dumbell" shaped items could have been made as if a thick
PCB trace, or CNC or molding.
I find it amusing that you are suggesting you know better how to machine than a machinist. I think I understand the reason why he make the solenoid coil forms the way he did. I'm not sure what you are saying about the connecting rods. They are what you mean by "dumbell shaped pieces", no?
--
Rick C.
-++ Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
C
Cursitor Doom
Guest
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:18:33 -0700, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
He has a lathe yet he's winding those solenoids by hand which ends up
looking just plain messy and lets the whole thing down. Shame.
--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
you are missing the point. it is a a toy which main purpose is to be an
excuse to to play with his other toys (machine tools)
He has a lathe yet he's winding those solenoids by hand which ends up
looking just plain messy and lets the whole thing down. Shame.
--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
Guest
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote in
news:qm4r0s$n15$1@dont-email.me:
I too noticed that he did not care one bit about the coil wind.
He could have gotten more turns on it. It would have looked a lot
neater.
Also, could likely get by with a smaller guage wire and get even
more turns onto it.
Take the output flywheel and attach it to a coupler and drive
someything with it. Then some real videos of it performing work
could be done.
news:qm4r0s$n15$1@dont-email.me:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:18:33 -0700, Lasse Langwadt Christensen
wrote:
you are missing the point. it is a a toy which main purpose is to
be an excuse to to play with his other toys (machine tools)
He has a lathe yet he's winding those solenoids by hand which ends
up looking just plain messy and lets the whole thing down. Shame.
I too noticed that he did not care one bit about the coil wind.
He could have gotten more turns on it. It would have looked a lot
neater.
Also, could likely get by with a smaller guage wire and get even
more turns onto it.
Take the output flywheel and attach it to a coupler and drive
someything with it. Then some real videos of it performing work
could be done.
R
Rick C
Guest
On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 5:37:37 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Yeah, I agree with that. I was also wondering about the switch positioning. I guess it's not really very critical just to make it turn.
It was a good video. Hard to turn away from interesting work.
--
Rick C.
+-- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:18:33 -0700, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
you are missing the point. it is a a toy which main purpose is to be an
excuse to to play with his other toys (machine tools)
He has a lathe yet he's winding those solenoids by hand which ends up
looking just plain messy and lets the whole thing down. Shame.
Yeah, I agree with that. I was also wondering about the switch positioning. I guess it's not really very critical just to make it turn.
It was a good video. Hard to turn away from interesting work.
--
Rick C.
+-- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209