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On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot water output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
On 2022-11-06, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 20:43:02 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-06 20:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Not the same thing at all. If you want to reduce usage, you turn things
down or off. If the whole country wants to do that over a short period
due to high demand, they can\'t very well phone everyone up and tell you
to delay your coffee for half an hour, they have to lower the voltage.
There is a type of electricity contract in which you accept the provider
will remotely switch off your heavy appliances to reduce power overall
for some time. In exchange, you pay less.
Is this available in the UK?
wikipedia says yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_management
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 15:52:50 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 12/11/2022 15:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 15:13:10 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 12/11/2022 14:58, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:02:03 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not.email@all.invalid
wrote:
On 11/10/22 05:51, Max Demian wrote:
[snip]
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas.
It\'s a waste.
Waste of what? If you heat with electricity heat is wasted in the
cooling towers of the power station .
and in transmission lines.
Power stations should be closer to houses.
Do you want to live in the shadow of a power station?
Wind turbines, yes, why not?
Wind turbines don\'t provide district heating.
They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?
Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.
Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.
On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in
the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient
heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except
for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this
is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace
with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62%
efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot water
output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably
can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
On 09/11/2022 06:38, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-11-06, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 20:43:02 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-06 20:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Not the same thing at all. If you want to reduce usage, you turn things
down or off. If the whole country wants to do that over a short period
due to high demand, they can\'t very well phone everyone up and tell you
to delay your coffee for half an hour, they have to lower the voltage.
There is a type of electricity contract in which you accept the provider
will remotely switch off your heavy appliances to reduce power overall
for some time. In exchange, you pay less.
Is this available in the UK?
wikipedia says yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_management
There is some industrial strength load management. They have been paying
major users to throttle back during winter peaks for ages. The UK energy
production infrastructure is on its last legs so there have been serious
energy shortages before in very cold snaps with no wind.
Wiki is a bit misleading there. A new scheme has been announced where
the \"electricity supplier\" will pay you not to use so much electricity
at peak times. You must have a Smart meter to qualify for the tariff.
The rules are as opaque as hell and only two suppliers have signed up to
providing it so far ISTR Ovo and Octopus. The big ones like SSE (who
actually *make* electricity as well as box shifting selling it) have not
signed up with the new scheme so it will save 1/10 of bugger all.
Correction British Gas & EDF have just signed up but only about 3.5M
households have Smart meters out of about 20M so even if all of them
were enabled it still isn\'t really a hill of beans.
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/cost-of-living/british-gas-peak-ovo-octopus-25416181
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/10/octopus-ovo-energy-pay-to-cut-electricity-use/
The second URL is a slightly better explanation but the rules remain
incredibly vague.
What is happening a lot at the moment is that UK energy suppliers are
switching people with smart meters who are in payment arrears into a
PAYG mode where they get cut off immediately and then have to buy energy
credits at a usurious rate for cash instead.
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 15:52:50 -0000, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 12/11/2022 15:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 15:13:10 -0000, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 12/11/2022 14:58, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:02:03 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not....@all.invalid
wrote:
On 11/10/22 05:51, Max Demian wrote:
[snip]
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas.
It\'s a waste.
Waste of what? If you heat with electricity heat is wasted in the
cooling towers of the power station .
and in transmission lines.
Power stations should be closer to houses.
Do you want to live in the shadow of a power station?
Wind turbines, yes, why not?
Wind turbines don\'t provide district heating.
They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?
Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.
Worse, it was explosive.
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 17:20:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot water output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
Seeing if you can think. Seems not.
Bye.
And curiously, if you put in a heat pump, the heat pump will use moreOn 2022-11-15 18:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in
the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more
efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except
for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this
is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace
with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62%
efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot
water output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably
can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be
colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
This is obvious:
Start status:
 Hot gasses flow: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--
                        <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water flow 15°C
Stable status:
 Hot gasses: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--> cold gases at almost 15°C
 Hot water at     <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water 15°C
 nearly 200°C
But the output gases can not get colder than 15°C in that example,
without a heat pump.
On 2022-11-11 13:37, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 11/11/2022 11:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I checked. These stoves do not produce it, and the room has a little
forced ventilation anyway. Blue flame.
They come with a CO2 detector, though. If it triggers, the space is
not sufficiently ventilated, so the tiny amount of CO they might
produce does not build up.
https://www.leroymerlin.es/productos/calefaccion-y-climatizacion/estufas/estufas-de-gas/estufa-de-gas-de-llama-azul-equation-eco-de-4-2-kw-82273485.html
DOC: see page 5 (Spanish):
https://media.adeo.com/marketplace/LMES/82273485/2570508.pdf
No CO.
CO2 at a couple of percent might lead to shortage of breath, and be
pretty unpleasant.
Yep.
Can high CO2 cause headaches?
Moderate to high levels of carbon dioxide can cause headaches and
fatigue, and higher concentrations can produce nausea, dizziness, and
vomiting. Loss of consciousness can occur at extremely high
concentrations.Apr 1, 2016
On 15/11/2022 18:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-15 18:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in
the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more
efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except
for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this
is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace
with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62%
efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot
water output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably
can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be
colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
This is obvious:
Start status:
 Hot gasses flow: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--
                        <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water flow 15°C
Stable status:
 Hot gasses: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--> cold gases at almost 15°C
 Hot water at     <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water 15°C
 nearly 200°C
But the output gases can not get colder than 15°C in that example,
without a heat pump.
And curiously, if you put in a heat pump, the heat pump will use more
energy than the extra energy you will get out of your steam engine.
Which is why not one persons in over 200 years of steam engine design,
has ever bothered to do it.
On 09.11.22 21:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 07:07:54 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:03:08 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Depends. Do you have 3 phase motors?
In my country house I currently have only one pump, which require
three phases.
That can be done with single phase power and a three phase inverter
(single phase input, three phase output). I don\'t know the current
price
of that, though.
Typically the single phase 230 V input inverter has 127/220 V three
phase output. The 230/400 V motors are much more common.
The other alterative is to use 3 capacitors to generate the phases
from single phase,, but the output power is severely reduced.
Is it possible to use a special transformer to shift the phase? So
you take a single phase and lag it a bit? Do that twice over, then
you have three phases cheaply.
120 degrees phase difference between the the phases.
quite a bit more than a \"bit\".
On 11/13/2022 4:48 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?
Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Steam_Company
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 13:43:53 -0000, \"NY\" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:22p14j-2u9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor...
On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/11/2022 12:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don\'t have house heating. I heat a room at a time using a butane
stove.
Carlos, I hope you have a CO detector? It doesn\'t take a lot to go wrong
with a portable stove to produce poison gas.
I have one in my head, it\'s called getting a headache. I don\'t waste
money on safety shit.
That\'s for CO2, fumes, and lack of O2, not abundance of CO.
CO will produce headache, nausea/vomiting and unconsciousness. Check for the
gums, fingernails and corners of eyes going cherry-red: that is caused by
carboxyhaemoglobin, in which the haemoglobin in the blood binds
preferentially with the CO, instead of the O2 which it is supposed to bind
with. Carb-haem is very bright red: much more so than with normal blood,
even oxygenated blood straight from the lungs before it has gone to the
organs/muscles.
CO2 tends to cause increased respiration because the body\'s natural reaction
is to try to breathe more in the hope of getting enough O2. It\'s why pure O2
(or O2+N2 with no CO2) in scuba breathing apparatus is a bad thing: the body
needs *some* CO2 to stimulate breathing. To much CO2 will lead to
unconsciousness but as I understand it, it is not poisonous as such, so a
few breaths of normal air is enough to revive a person. CO is much more
dangerous than CO2 because removal of CO and breathing of normal O2 will not
immediately make the haem give up the CO that is bound to it.
My parents had a scare about 20 years ago. They have a holiday cottage in
Yorkshire which is heated partly by a coke/wood stove. Some friends were
staying there and one of them woke up in the night feeling dizzy and sick.
Luckily she was a nurse and recognised CO poisoning so she got everyone out
and opened the windows. The stove flue had got partly blocked by a bird\'s
nest during the months that no-one was lighting fires. My parents felt very
guilty and bought several CO detectors. They have also had a cowl fitted
which prevents birds getting in and nesting.
We have a cabin in the mountains. These cabins are often unused for
weeks or months at a stretch.
One nearby cabin was unused for a while and two guys came up to ski.
The gas water heater had filled the place with CO and there were no CO
detectors. Both guys died.
We had a squirrel decide to climb up a nice warm vent pipe and take up
residence inside a clothes dryer.
On 13/11/2022 16:02, Bob F wrote:
On 11/13/2022 4:48 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?
Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Steam_Company
Sounds dangerous, especially if room heating is done directly by steam
radiators. (The ones I\'ve seen are the same size an electric storage
heaters with insulation, grills and lagged steam pipes.)
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 08:30:23 -0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
What is happening a lot at the moment is that UK energy suppliers are
switching people with smart meters who are in payment arrears into a
PAYG mode where they get cut off immediately and then have to buy energy
credits at a usurious rate for cash instead.
It\'s so funny, a debt to an electricity company has no collateral. You
could run up a debt of £50,000, then just not pay. They can\'t legally
cut you off!
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:01:19 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
As I said, this is a modern country. Basically the whole of Spain is
using smart meters, changed maybe ten years ago. And I saw nothing in
media about them being faulty.
They\'re (form your point of view) pointless, and a possible source of
spying and control. Why would you be happy with this? They can turn
off your power at will!
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 15/11/2022 18:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-15 18:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in
the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more
efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except
for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this
is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace
with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62%
efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot
water output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably
can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be
colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
This is obvious:
Start status:
 Hot gasses flow: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--
                        <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water flow 15°C
Stable status:
 Hot gasses: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--> cold gases at almost 15°C
 Hot water at     <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water 15°C
 nearly 200°C
But the output gases can not get colder than 15°C in that example,
without a heat pump.
And curiously, if you put in a heat pump, the heat pump will use more
energy than the extra energy you will get out of your steam engine.
Which is why not one persons in over 200 years of steam engine design,
has ever bothered to do it.
They didn\'t need a heat pump, as the superheaters (driven by flue gasses) were
sufficient for their purposes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater