Getting electrocuted in bathtub

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <XnsAB0332F05F037HT1
@pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yip0v5y3R0tD9r426HdenG1>, nobody@haph.org
says...

I realize you thought you were looking at a half wave rectifier
circuit, but you aren't. Look closer at the components wiring
configuration sometime, you'll notice something different.

The diode is going across hot and neutral, the capacitor is coming
off one side; exact opposite of what you'd have for a half wave ac to
dc rectifier. What you have in this configuration, is an ac to dc
half wave voltage doubler circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYw_5LKfxms

You can also refresh your memory with a simple google search. Any
say, slightly above beginner in electronics should know this stuff...
ho hum.

More You tube BS.

Have you actually tried the circuit ? I just did to see. I only used a
6 volt transformer. A 1 UF capacitor and a diode rated for 3 amps.
With a 40,000 ohm load. The meter is a Fluke, not the HF quality.

Adjusting for a 6.0 voltage AC the DC voltage did not make 8 volts.
That is in line with the 1.4 times the AC voltage and diode drop.
Just like a 1/2 wave rectifier .

If it was really a voltage doubler, it should have been over 10 volts DC
allowing for the drop of the diode.

It still takes 2 diodes and 2 capacitors to do the voltage doubling for
a 1/2 wave doubler.

You should really verify anything you see on youtube before stating it
as fact.

 

[Sjouke Burry]

On 10.11.19 14:33, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote in
news:e488cf3a-a8e0-42ca-b038-b37ceaca10e9@googlegroups.com:

On Saturday, 9 November 2019 23:12:10 UTC,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB02A8E6F1064HT1
@t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:

Oh, it's that damn
electrical trade experience I have, wiring the fucking
things...


Yeah... that thing where you make assumptions about drain
construction when you are "an electrician". not a plumber.

The drain is not connected to the feed tap manifold.

So, NO, the water line is NOT connected to a tub full of water
once
it is filled and the water is off.

A bath that's wet all over near the taps is thereby connected. And
with all the splash as it fills, wet it will surely be.

The taps are on the wall, so it will not be very easy to fill the
tub up to the taps, and you're dancing around like a Donald J.
Trumplike buffoon right now.

And a wet and slimy drain has no ground path?
Can i sell you a well preserved bridge?

 

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:MPG.383212e611b6bc7c989c0e@news.east.earthlink.net:

In article <MPG.3831ff3b65938b74989c0a@news.east.earthlink.net>,
rmowery28146@earthlink.net says...

I realize you thought you were looking at a half wave rectifier
circuit, but you aren't. Look closer at the components wiring
configuration sometime, you'll notice something different.

The diode is going across hot and neutral, the capacitor is
coming off one side; exact opposite of what you'd have for a
half wave ac to dc rectifier. What you have in this
configuration, is an ac to dc half wave voltage doubler
circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYw_5LKfxms

You can also refresh your memory with a simple google search.
Any say, slightly above beginner in electronics should know
this stuff... ho hum.



I will concede that you do get a doubling of pulse voltages in
this particular case.

Just not a DC voltage one normally thinks of when mentioning a
voltage
circuit. Found this out by putting a scope across the circuit
after someone else mentioned how the pulses were offset in the
negative direction.

It is all the microwave magnetron cavity needs to resonate.

Probably pretty lossy with what gets used from the outlet over what
gets pumped out of the magnetron cavity into the load (food).

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <MPG.3831ff3b65938b74989c0a@news.east.earthlink.net>,
rmowery28146@earthlink.net says...

I realize you thought you were looking at a half wave rectifier
circuit, but you aren't. Look closer at the components wiring
configuration sometime, you'll notice something different.

The diode is going across hot and neutral, the capacitor is coming
off one side; exact opposite of what you'd have for a half wave ac to
dc rectifier. What you have in this configuration, is an ac to dc
half wave voltage doubler circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYw_5LKfxms

You can also refresh your memory with a simple google search. Any
say, slightly above beginner in electronics should know this stuff...
ho hum.

I will concede that you do get a doubling of pulse voltages in this
particular case.

Just not a DC voltage one normally thinks of when mentioning a voltage
circuit. Found this out by putting a scope across the circuit after
someone else mentioned how the pulses were offset in the negative
direction.

 

Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote in
news:5dc84b0a$0$1736$e4fe514c@textnews.kpn.nl:

On 10.11.19 14:33, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote in
news:e488cf3a-a8e0-42ca-b038-b37ceaca10e9@googlegroups.com:

On Saturday, 9 November 2019 23:12:10 UTC,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB02A8E6F1064HT1
@t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:

Oh, it's that damn
electrical trade experience I have, wiring the fucking
things...


Yeah... that thing where you make assumptions about drain
construction when you are "an electrician". not a plumber.

The drain is not connected to the feed tap manifold.

So, NO, the water line is NOT connected to a tub full of
water
once
it is filled and the water is off.

A bath that's wet all over near the taps is thereby connected.
And
with all the splash as it fills, wet it will surely be.

The taps are on the wall, so it will not be very easy to fill
the
tub up to the taps, and you're dancing around like a Donald J.
Trumplike buffoon right now.

And a wet and slimy drain has no ground path?

Does it traverse the trap? These things are not hard to model. It
is several different value series resistors on the part of the
drainage system that *does* make it to ground alone. Then, a few
more for the trap and the drain. Pretty sure the result is a fairly
high value.

> Can i sell you a well preserved bridge?

I have seen 'modern' steel bridges crumble while centuries old
stone bridges still stand.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in
news:XnsAB03AFAAAA65DHT1@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

I'll take anything you claim to know with more than a small bottle
of salt.

Please, you retarded fuck. Eat an ounce or two over the next day or
so. Then eat another ounce. Die from it, dumbfuck.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAAAA65DHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

Your insults aside, I told you, more than just voltage is
involved,

No, fuckhead. No goal post moving. *I* *TOLD* *YOU* what happens,
and YOU have been trying to get out of the corner you painted
yourself into ever since.

Here it is:

The POWER SOURCE has a delivery capacity. That could be a coin
battery, a bank of maxwells getting ready to feed 15kA, a charged
cloud bank, or a nuclear power grid fed substation transformer
secondary.

IN EVERY CASE, there is a max generated voltage.

In every case, that said voltage is ONLY capable of breaching a
very specific gap distance.

In NO CASE does the delivery capacity matter in the creation of an
arc.

In EVERY case, ONCE the arc has been initiated, ONLY the power
generation device capacity will determine how long it will be
sustained.

In EVERY case, once initiated and sustained, an arc can bridge a
much larger gap than that which initiated the spark.

You were already told this when I spoke of numerous youtube videos
showing the opinging of HV breaker swithches at sub stations.

You said "in order to initiate the spark". That is what the entire
discussion has been about, dumbass. You have been mumbling about
what happens after the arc begins. You are flawed, child.

I ALREADY KNOW ABOUT POWER and what current flows in shorted nodes.
I ALREADY KNOW that an arc is a short. Did not need you accusing me
of being dangerous or the other stupid petty mumbling you have been
making since I told you that you got it wrong.

I stated that VOLTAGE is what is required to bridge a gap. THAT is
a FACT.

YOU refuted that. THAT is a FACT. You do NOT now get to move the
goal post and describe what I have been telling YOU about all along.

And you accused me of dancing. Nice try, boy.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAAAA65DHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

Evidently, based on the fact you started by claiming 77kv was
necessary to jump an inch of open air, and dismissed it entirely as
voltage related; nothing to do with amperage, frequency, ac/dc,
etc.

You obviously really know nothing about how an arc bridges an air
gap.

From lightning to your precious death delivering pole pig, you still
ain't got your head wrapped around the physics right.

If you remain hard headed about it, you never will.

Here's another industry standard for ya in the power distribution
realm, which you claim is your alleyway...

4MV DC lines. 14 feet of clearance... required.

Don't believe me? Please, dipshit, step into the space between
ground and a 4MV line. Let me make the video.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAAAA65DHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

Not only do you try desperately to be insulting, you also like to
dance around the topic when called out.

Me calling you on you talking about how much you think someone does
or does not know is not dancing, you stupid putz. You have to get your
assertions right first, and they are not. In fact, motherfucker, it is
YOU whom is dangerous.

No desperation required... you insult yourself. I suggest you erase
your entire bloodline. A nice big family get together with a big pre-
dug lye pit would do.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFA77D4EDHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

My brain? Oh, you think I wrote each and every single sig it
generates eh?

You post them, ergo you stand behind them, you absolute fucking
retard.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFA77D4EDHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

Oh, and incidently, I wouldn't let you wire a light fixture to a
dog
house; I'd be worried you'd fuck it up.

You are a fucking retard for running an AC line to a dog house to
start with you retarded fuck.

This ia a modern world. We use LED lighting here and it runs on
DC.

Unless you are also retarded enough to purchase, and feed an LED
fixture that runs on AC when there is no need.

And you... I would not trust you to know how tight to make a
terminal tap, since you do not even know Ohm's law, much less
Paschen's you have to also be a mechanical nitwit. So everything you
ever installed is in question, in my view, because you are too stupid
to even know how to torque a screw correctly.

Incidently, jackass. You DID 'fuck it up'.

 

[Diesel]

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org news:qq96j5$i07$2
@gioia.aioe.org Sun, 10 Nov 2019 14:24:38 GMT in alt.home.repair,
wrote:

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB033B085533FHT1
@pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yip0v5y3R0tD9r426HdenG1:


Your math is flawed, sorry, but it is.



Your brain is flawed. Sorry, chump... but it is.

Nope...

Message-ID: <qq7hks$13vp$1@gioia.aioe.org>

One diode and one cap does not make a voltage doubler. The diode is
a rectifier so that the magnetron gets a DC feed.

*** end paste

Message-ID: <qq7h43$11qp$1@gioia.aioe.org>

I was wiring circuits back in the early seventies, *and* I know
what the term 'continuity' means.

*** end paste

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler

Too funny. First circuit diagram and description is the same one
found in most MOT driven end user microwave ovens. Just like I said.

A voltage DOUBLER circuit, not a half wave rectifier as you and
another poster incorrectly assumed it to be.

> Particularly because of your retarded sig generator.

I rather like it myself.

> It is a real tell about your inane brain.

My brain? Oh, you think I wrote each and every single sig it
generates eh? Just how much trouble does your tendency to quickly
ASSUme things (often in error) get you in on a daily basis?

The sigfile is a collection of other sig files, merged into a larger
file that I've collected along the way, some going back to the
fidonet days. So not sorry if you find it bothersome. If anything, it
brings a smile to my face to know you don't like it. [g]

Oh, and incidently, I wouldn't let you wire a light fixture to a dog
house; I'd be worried you'd fuck it up.




--
--Ceud Mille Failte--Gaelic: A hundred thousand welcomes.

 

[Diesel]

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
news:qq95iu$e4j$1@gioia.aioe.org Sun, 10 Nov 2019 14:07:27 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB0332EFD530AHT1
@pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yip0v5y3R0tD9r426HdenG1:

. People like, you, for example. Think you know more than you
do. That's dangerous.

You are a goddamned idiot, boy.

Not only do you try desperately to be insulting, you also like to
dance around the topic when called out.

I do not "think I know more than I do". I KNOW that I know more
than you do, however.

Evidently, based on the fact you started by claiming 77kv was
necessary to jump an inch of open air, and dismissed it entirely as
voltage related; nothing to do with amperage, frequency, ac/dc, etc.

ALL Of that is factored into the arc. It determines whether the arc
is going to be a hot or a cold one, it determines how far that arc
can travel and how much punch it's got upon initialization and during
the sustainment phase; if it can be sustained.

Your insults aside, I told you, more than just voltage is involved,
your maths is wrong. Has always been wrong. It does not take 77kv to
jump an inch of open air. You were writing horse shit. And I
repeatedly told you this.

You are a fresh trained wire boy punk, or someone trained longer
ago, but whom never ever really got the physics right in your
lacking screw driver turning head.

With all due respect, I think you've ASSumed incorrectly enough in
this thread. You claimed 77kv was necessary to jump an inch open air
gap (it isn't). You claimed the microwave oven was using a half wave
rectifier (it's not). Well, the Villard circuit predates you by a
considerable margin. That's the circuit the microwave oven uses to
generate 5kv of pulsed DC to power the magnetron. It was created in
1904. How did you miss it?

I'll take anything you claim to know with more than a small bottle of
salt. Someone who's been into electronics for anywhere near the
length of time as you've claimed should be well beyond basic stuff,
and shouldn't have missed something as obvious as that; or proceeded
to argue about it. Yet, you did.


--
Women! Can't live with 'em and no resale value.

 

[Diesel]

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org news:qq934v$1ups$1
@gioia.aioe.org Sun, 10 Nov 2019 13:25:51 GMT in alt.home.repair,
wrote:

Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qq7s09$42m$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-11-09, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org> wrote:
Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB02A8E7F9A1EHT1
@t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:

Umm. I wasn't talking about inverter ovens, but the plain jane
heavy transformer models. They are using a voltage doubler to
get 5kv to feed the magnetron. The transformer is NOT generating
5kv DC to run it on it's own. There's a big fat DIODE and a
capacitor in the circuit too; which is a voltage doubler!


One diode and one cap does not make a voltage doubler. The
diode is
a rectifier so that the magnetron gets a DC feed.

the magnetron _is_ a rectifier. the diode and cap are to double
the voltage and limit the current.

magnetron (thermionic diode)
.....
__________:_ :
||(__________:_3 |-:--- gnd
|| | : :
___ || _--||-+ '''''
_)||(_ |
___)||(_ V
||(_ T semiconductor rectifier diode
||(__ |
||_| ----'
| gnd




Where is the second cap?

So fucking funny...

From another of your posts:

Message-ID: <qq7hks$13vp$1@gioia.aioe.org>

One diode and one cap does not make a voltage doubler. The diode is
a rectifier so that the magnetron gets a DC feed.

*** end paste

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler

The first circuit diagram is the one you'll find commonly being used
in MOT driven microwave ovens. It's a Villard voltage doubler
circuit. The circuit you mistook for something else was originally
created in 1904...And as far as I know, is still taught when the
class gets beyond beginner level. Did you drop out after the first
few months or something?

I've noticed you like to run your mouth and do a piss poor job of
being insulting, but you really should take a step or two back and
rethink your line of attack here. As, so far, you've failed quite
nicely. You are amusing though, if it helps. A poster child for a
future darwin award winner.




--
Ah, I'm sorry sir, the cat's eaten it.

 

[Diesel]

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>
news:MPG.3831ff3b65938b74989c0a@news.east.earthlink.net Sun, 10 Nov
2019 16:05:15 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

In article <XnsAB0332F05F037HT1
@pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yip0v5y3R0tD9r426HdenG1>, nobody@haph.org
says...

I realize you thought you were looking at a half wave rectifier
circuit, but you aren't. Look closer at the components wiring
configuration sometime, you'll notice something different.

The diode is going across hot and neutral, the capacitor is
coming off one side; exact opposite of what you'd have for a half
wave ac to dc rectifier. What you have in this configuration, is
an ac to dc half wave voltage doubler circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYw_5LKfxms

You can also refresh your memory with a simple google search. Any
say, slightly above beginner in electronics should know this
stuff... ho hum.




More You tube BS.

Oh, you don't need youtube for this.. It's just easier with a
video...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler

See the first circuit diagram? Look familiar to you? The diode is
reversed in the Microwave oven, but the concept is still the same.
The microwave as you learned, is using a negative dc pulse, the
circuit as shown is a positive dc pulse.

It's the same circuit you and another poster not only confused for
being something else, but assumed I didn't know WTF I was writing
about as you both did so. Not the case. I knew what I was writing
about, neither of you actually did.

> Have you actually tried the circuit ?

Many times. I originally learned about it in the early 1980s. And
i've had many refreshers on it since then. It seems to be something
that every serious instructor I've had wanted to ensure we knew and
understood. I've been certified at one point or another to work on a
variety of HV and LV stuff, so, this circuit came up several times.
it's a real cheap way of acquiring high voltage.

You should really verify anything you see on youtube before
stating it as fact.

<G> I wouldn't waste my time, yours, or anyone elses here by writing
bullshit that I couldn't support with facts, if asked and was
necessary.


--
Nice computers don't go down

 

[Diesel]

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>
news:MPG.383212e611b6bc7c989c0e@news.east.earthlink.net Sun, 10 Nov
2019 17:28:58 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

In article <MPG.3831ff3b65938b74989c0a@news.east.earthlink.net>,
rmowery28146@earthlink.net says...

I realize you thought you were looking at a half wave rectifier
circuit, but you aren't. Look closer at the components wiring
configuration sometime, you'll notice something different.

The diode is going across hot and neutral, the capacitor is
coming off one side; exact opposite of what you'd have for a
half wave ac to dc rectifier. What you have in this
configuration, is an ac to dc half wave voltage doubler
circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYw_5LKfxms

You can also refresh your memory with a simple google search.
Any say, slightly above beginner in electronics should know
this stuff... ho hum.



I will concede that you do get a doubling of pulse voltages in
this particular case.

Great. Mr Villard would be pleased that you finally figured it out,
if he were still alive today. He created it in 1904, so it's not
like you and others haven't had plenty of time to familiarize
yourselves with the circuit. Many others are based on it. If you're
into high voltage, you've probably built one or more variations of
it. You've used things that are using circuits based on it, too. CRT
television sets are a good example...

Just not a DC voltage one normally thinks of when mentioning a
voltage circuit.

That's what happens when you ASSUme things and roll with those
assumptions. I appreciate your followup post though.




--
And God said: E = mv - Ze/r . . . and there *WAS* light!

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFA77D4EDHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

> The sigfile is a collection

We do not need a primer on a simple sig generator, you fucking
elementary school level putz!

The stupid shit you post makes you look like a first time Usenet
poster. That is how stupid the shit you spout is, boy. You been here
some stupid shit short time, and you act like you need to instruct
folks been posting here for DECADES.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAB3FCBAHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

.And as far as I know, is still taught when the
class gets beyond beginner level.

No, child. Past the beginner level, we talk about C-W multipliers.

As far as I know, you deserve every insult I ever delivered your way.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAB3FCBAHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

Did you drop out after the first
few months or something?

How many HV power supplies have you designed?

Like I said... wire boy.

 

Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAB3FCBAHT1
@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:

I've noticed you like to run your mouth and do a piss poor job of
being insulting,

Oh and you are so clever and cultured.

HOAD, little boy. Go play with a live pole pig wired backwards to
your Dryer outlet. Taste the 'current' with your tongue.