Gas shortage UK...

[Scott Lurndal]

Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> writes:

In article <op.1u78rjekmvhs6z@ryzen.home>, CK1@nospam.com says...

Ah, I also read it as \"(cooking and cooling and heating for all-electric homes after NG) is banned.\" which would mean after NG, we are not allowed to cook cool or heat. I think brackets ought to be used more in sentences.

Since when could gas cool something anyway?




That is in California. Where almost everything causes cancer. Now
natural gas does something bad.

Methane (CH4) has always been bad, no matter what state you
live in.

> They have starting banning all gasoline

Gasoline is not Methane. They are two different things, and
gasoline both becoming scarce, becoming expensive and in
small lawn equipment, very polluting.

There are some campers that the refrigerator is cooled by propane.

Using the same methods as electricity, except the heat comes from
the propane and has no moving parts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 11/6/2022 4:06 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On 6 Nov 2022 20:11:58 GMT, Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 17:38:38 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 17:25:22 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 15:48:52 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me
wrote:

On 06/11/2022 14:46, Commander Kinsey wrote:
It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before. Looks like the
gas tank\'s running out....

Maybe Europe has more energy than it knows what to do with, e.g. wind,
rather than we are low on gas.

There is no obvious way to store even one full day\'s use of electrical
energy.

You can buy a battery which will power your home for a week.

A Powerwall costs about $11K and is claimed to power a typical house
for 1.5 days. Between fires.

Grid-scale storage would have to power industry and transport too, and
cooking and cooling and heating for all-electric homes after NG is
banned.

I get the impression that the idea of the renewables programme is to get
rid of industry, transport, and people.

Yes. The greenie thing is a path to power through fear.

Oil is finite. What is your plan? When should it kick in?

 

[danny burstein]

In <op.1u8gjmn1mvhs6z@ryzen.home> \"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> writes:

[snip]

My parents old apartment in NYC had a \"natural gas [a]\"
fired refrigerator which yes, had a small flame doing
that whole ammonia deal, back in the 1960\'s. I wish
I could have held onto it...

[a] well, it probably dated from the 1930\'s, so was
originally working on \"town\" or \"manufactured\" gas,
and hopefully retrofitted to natural gas in the
1950\'s when NYC switched over.

And if it hadn\'t been retrofitted?

Mismatching of natural gas and air ratio, leading
to ugly consequences such as soot, carbon monoxide,
and other nasties.

(Ditto of using an oven/stove/heater designed for propane on
natural gas and vice versa. On most of these it\'s a simple
replacement of the gas orifice. I\'ve worked in areas where
there was natural gas in the town, propane tanks outside.

All the licensed, experienced, insured plumbers knew
the deal, as did their qualified assistants. But all
too often someone would pick up a furnace, etc., that
was set for the other fuel and not adjust is...)



--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 22:25:56 -0000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

On 11/6/2022 5:12 PM, danny burstein wrote:
In <t18gmhd1pc7hfml7digabt54e6829d4cdg@4ax.com> hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:

[snip]

Since when could gas cool something anyway?

Broadly speaking, two ways:

a: using it to directly power a compressor the same
way it can run a car or generator

and

b: through that whole \"ammonia cycle\" deal which, while
I\'ve seen it in operation, makes my head hurt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

Cabins & cottages in remote locations have used propane
burning fridges for decades.

My parents old apartment in NYC had a \"natural gas [a]\"
fired refrigerator which yes, had a small flame doing
that whole ammonia deal, back in the 1960\'s. I wish
I could have held onto it...

[a] well, it probably dated from the 1930\'s, so was
originally working on \"town\" or \"manufactured\" gas,
and hopefully retrofitted to natural gas in the
1950\'s when NYC switched over.



You can still buy one.

https://www.lehmans.com/category/gas-refrigerators-freezers

Handy for camping I presume.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 22:28:08 -0000, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> writes:
In article <op.1u78rjekmvhs6z@ryzen.home>, CK1@nospam.com says...

Ah, I also read it as \"(cooking and cooling and heating for all-electric homes after NG) is banned.\" which would mean after NG, we are not allowed to cook cool or heat. I think brackets ought to be used more in sentences.

Since when could gas cool something anyway?




That is in California. Where almost everything causes cancer. Now
natural gas does something bad.

Methane (CH4) has always been bad, no matter what state you
live in.

They have starting banning all gasoline

Gasoline is not Methane. They are two different things, and
gasoline both becoming scarce, becoming expensive and in
small lawn equipment, very polluting.

And fucking noisy. Just get an electric mower and get into the current century.

There are some campers that the refrigerator is cooled by propane.

Using the same methods as electricity, except the heat comes from
the propane and has no moving parts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

With electricity a pump is used, not a heater.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 22:29:52 -0000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

On 11/6/2022 4:06 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On 6 Nov 2022 20:11:58 GMT, Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 17:38:38 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 17:25:22 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 15:48:52 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me
wrote:

On 06/11/2022 14:46, Commander Kinsey wrote:
It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before. Looks like the
gas tank\'s running out....

Maybe Europe has more energy than it knows what to do with, e.g. wind,
rather than we are low on gas.

There is no obvious way to store even one full day\'s use of electrical
energy.

You can buy a battery which will power your home for a week.

A Powerwall costs about $11K and is claimed to power a typical house
for 1.5 days. Between fires.

Grid-scale storage would have to power industry and transport too, and
cooking and cooling and heating for all-electric homes after NG is
banned.

I get the impression that the idea of the renewables programme is to get
rid of industry, transport, and people.

Yes. The greenie thing is a path to power through fear.

Oil is finite. What is your plan? When should it kick in?

When it\'s running out the cost will sort things.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 22:31:50 -0000, danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

In <op.1u8gjmn1mvhs6z@ryzen.home> \"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> writes:

[snip]
My parents old apartment in NYC had a \"natural gas [a]\"
fired refrigerator which yes, had a small flame doing
that whole ammonia deal, back in the 1960\'s. I wish
I could have held onto it...

[a] well, it probably dated from the 1930\'s, so was
originally working on \"town\" or \"manufactured\" gas,
and hopefully retrofitted to natural gas in the
1950\'s when NYC switched over.

And if it hadn\'t been retrofitted?

Mismatching of natural gas and air ratio, leading
to ugly consequences such as soot, carbon monoxide,
and other nasties.

(Ditto of using an oven/stove/heater designed for propane on
natural gas and vice versa. On most of these it\'s a simple
replacement of the gas orifice. I\'ve worked in areas where
there was natural gas in the town, propane tanks outside.

All the licensed, experienced, insured plumbers knew
the deal, as did their qualified assistants. But all
too often someone would pick up a furnace, etc., that
was set for the other fuel and not adjust is...)

The only gas appliance I had put the exhaust outdoors. I don\'t care if there\'s carbon monoxide out there. Something with the exhaust inside is going to give you a lack of oxygen and a lot of CO2, not good for breathing.

 

[danny burstein]

In <op.1u8g0xozmvhs6z@ryzen.home> \"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> writes:
[snip]

There are some campers that the refrigerator is cooled by propane.

Using the same methods as electricity, except the heat comes from
the propane and has no moving parts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

With electricity a pump is used, not a heater.

With electricity you can also use a \"thermoelectric\"
cooling (and heating...) system. Not as efficien as
a compressor based unit, but quieter and more resistant
to the bumps and knocks found in cars, trucks, and campers.

just as some examples:
https://www.wayfair.com/Coleman--40-Qt.-PowerChill%E2%84%A2-Thermoelectric-Cooler-3000004321-L731-K~CLM3163.html

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 22:31:50 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein, another brain dead,
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

Mismatching of natural gas and air ratio, leading
to ugly consequences such as soot, carbon monoxide,
and other nasties.

You ARE aware that you are feeding a troll? Or are you so senile that you
don\'t get it? Ore are you so miserable that you do get it but STILL need to
feed him to forget about your senile misery, troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 22:43:21 -0000, danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

In <op.1u8g0xozmvhs6z@ryzen.home> \"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> writes:
[snip]
There are some campers that the refrigerator is cooled by propane.

Using the same methods as electricity, except the heat comes from
the propane and has no moving parts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

With electricity a pump is used, not a heater.

With electricity you can also use a \"thermoelectric\"
cooling (and heating...) system. Not as efficien as
a compressor based unit, but quieter and more resistant
to the bumps and knocks found in cars, trucks, and campers.

just as some examples:
https://www.wayfair.com/Coleman--40-Qt.-PowerChill%E2%84%A2-Thermoelectric-Cooler-3000004321-L731-K~CLM3163.html

Yes I have one in my car, EXTREMELY inefficient.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/11/2022 15:36, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 14:46:37 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before. Looks like the gas tank\'s running out....

We are winning the war on energy.

Not really. We are importing from one country and exporting to France.
Probably because Macron has told EDF to keep the price down, so they are
sending cheap nuclear to France

We are of course losing the battle with energy, and the war to stop
citizens being switched off.

“Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.”

Barack Obama

--
\"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful.\"

Lucas Bergkamp

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 22:43:21 -0000 (UTC), danny burpstein, another brain
dead, troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

With electricity you can also use a \"thermoelectric\"
cooling (and heating...) system.

Poor danny, the troll-feeding senile asshole, is so senile he STILL doesn\'t
get what\'s going on here! LMAO

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:05:01 -0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 15:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 14:46:37 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before. Looks like the gas tank\'s running out....

We are winning the war on energy.

Not really. We are importing from one country and exporting to France.
Probably because Macron has told EDF to keep the price down, so they are
sending cheap nuclear to France

We are of course losing the battle with energy, and the war to stop
citizens being switched off.

I have only observed power coming FROM France. France has loads of power, lots of nuclear power stations.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:25:07 -0000, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:05:01 -0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 15:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 14:46:37 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before. Looks like the gas tank\'s running out....

We are winning the war on energy.

Not really. We are importing from one country and exporting to France.
Probably because Macron has told EDF to keep the price down, so they are
sending cheap nuclear to France

We are of course losing the battle with energy, and the war to stop
citizens being switched off.

I have only observed power coming FROM France. France has loads of power, lots of nuclear power stations.

I tell a lie, we\'re currently exporting to France, after importing from Belgium. If my geography is correct, wouldn\'t it be better not to go via the UK?

 

[server]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 22:34:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 22:25:56 -0000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

On 11/6/2022 5:12 PM, danny burstein wrote:
In <t18gmhd1pc7hfml7digabt54e6829d4cdg@4ax.com> hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:

[snip]

Since when could gas cool something anyway?

Broadly speaking, two ways:

a: using it to directly power a compressor the same
way it can run a car or generator

and

b: through that whole \"ammonia cycle\" deal which, while
I\'ve seen it in operation, makes my head hurt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

Cabins & cottages in remote locations have used propane
burning fridges for decades.

My parents old apartment in NYC had a \"natural gas [a]\"
fired refrigerator which yes, had a small flame doing
that whole ammonia deal, back in the 1960\'s. I wish
I could have held onto it...

[a] well, it probably dated from the 1930\'s, so was
originally working on \"town\" or \"manufactured\" gas,
and hopefully retrofitted to natural gas in the
1950\'s when NYC switched over.



You can still buy one.
https://www.lehmans.com/category/gas-refrigerators-freezers

Handy for camping I presume.

Sure - back-pack a fridge through the bush.
... then portage the propane tanks !
John T.

 

[corvid]

On 11/6/22 14:01, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 21:43:51 -0000, corvid <bl@ckb.ird> wrote:
On 11/6/22 07:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 14:46:37 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before.  Looks
like the gas tank\'s running out....

We are winning the war on energy.

“Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.”

Barack Obama

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2009/jun/11/mike-pence/pence-claims-obama-said-energy-costs-will-skyrocke/

You\'d rather not have disclosures upfront? He sounds like someone I\'d be
comfortable buying a house from.

Obama or Pence?

Obama! Look past his plan, which you don\'t have to like, and give him
some credit for having the mettle to say what he said, when he said it.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/11/2022 15:48, Pancho wrote:

On 06/11/2022 14:46, Commander Kinsey wrote:
It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before.  Looks like
the gas tank\'s running out....

Maybe Europe has more energy than it knows what to do with, e.g. wind,
rather than we are low on gas.

The only way to tell is to look at the spot prices. European<->uk flows
tend to be from Europe when its cheap and to Europe when its expensive.

Because we have capacity, but its expensive gas capacity compared with
French nuclear, German and polish coal or scandinavian hydro.


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/11/2022 17:25, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 15:48:52 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me
wrote:

On 06/11/2022 14:46, Commander Kinsey wrote:
It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before.  Looks like the
gas tank\'s running out....

Maybe Europe has more energy than it knows what to do with, e.g. wind,
rather than we are low on gas.

There is no obvious way to store even one full day\'s use of electrical
energy.

Well I worked out how to do it by pumping out loch Ness and letting the
sea refill it via some turbines. I reckon you could store almost a weeks
worth .

Utterly destroy the ecosystem of course, and cost more than totally
equipping the UK with nukes instead, but hey, its all green energy innit?

--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/11/2022 20:04, Colin Bignell wrote:

On 06/11/2022 19:51, danny burstein wrote:
In <op.1u78rjekmvhs6z@ryzen.home> \"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com
writes:

[snip]

Since when could gas cool something anyway?

Broadly speaking, two ways:

a:  using it to directly power a compressor the same
     way it can run a car or generator

     and

b:  through that whole \"ammonia cycle\" deal which, while
     I\'ve seen it in operation, makes my head hurt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator


I knew that as the Electrolux cycle.

Nothing sucks like Electrolux...
--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/11/2022 20:11, Spike wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 17:38:38 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 17:25:22 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 15:48:52 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me
wrote:

On 06/11/2022 14:46, Commander Kinsey wrote:
It\'s happening already....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iph3vmipjmk6qu/grid.jpg?dl=0

I\'ve never seen the cables from Europe maxed out before. Looks like the
gas tank\'s running out....

Maybe Europe has more energy than it knows what to do with, e.g. wind,
rather than we are low on gas.

There is no obvious way to store even one full day\'s use of electrical
energy.

You can buy a battery which will power your home for a week.

A Powerwall costs about $11K and is claimed to power a typical house
for 1.5 days. Between fires.

Grid-scale storage would have to power industry and transport too, and
cooking and cooling and heating for all-electric homes after NG is
banned.

I get the impression that the idea of the renewables programme is to get
rid of industry, transport, and people.

Well those are irrelevant. The idea of the renewables programme is to
get all private wealth into the hands of a few extremely powerful people
who are actually government - as opposed to the zombies in parliament


--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker