EV Charging in the UK

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:11:39 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:50:29 -0700, Rick C wrote:

I have to acknowledge that if this 2 kW number is correct and a large
fraction of homes in the UK receive such meager distribution, home EV
charging of any significant fraction of the cars would be impossible.
Otherwise adding a simple 13 amp outlet accessible to the EV would
suffice for charging up to 150 miles per night or more.

The maximum draw per single domestic socket outlet is 13A. HOWEVER, most
homes can legitimately have up to 60A -100A by taking a dedicated spur
off the house's consumer unit/distribution board. The general limit per
domestic installation is limited by the power co's fuse which is
generally 100A maximum. I'm sure that's plenty for even an American. ;-)

No one in the right mind would attempt to charge an EV from a 13A socket
(unless time was not a consideration.) ;-)

We have 30KW, 120-N-120 at 125 amps. We have gas too, so we use a tiny
fraction of that capacity.

120V outlets are good for 15A, I think. The clothes dryer socket is
240V, but it uses gas too.

Most US outlets are 15A per outlet but there are two on the typical
"duplex" fixture. There is a total maximum of 20A on these circuits.
20A 120V outlets also exist but the pin configuration is different
(one horizontal pin) and only one is allowed (can't be duplexed).

Car charging would be possible but very inconvenient.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 17:31:02 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Musk's talent is raising large amounts of money and squandering larger
amounts. He has to keep playing boy genius inventor to keep churning up
investors. Things like that don't last.

Sounds pretty much like a Ponzi scheme AFAICT. Could be the next Enron.



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[Tom Gardner]

On 17/06/19 00:59, bitrex wrote:

On 6/16/19 4:23 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 16/06/19 20:08, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 11:31:23 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 02:41:27 -0700, Rick C wrote:

Let me repeat myself yet again.  Charge at home, always have a full battery
in the morning and never have to drive to a busy, smelly, nasty gas station
again.

I thought you were referencing the situation specifically in the UK, where
access to charging, even if you own your own home, is frequently impossible.

There is no point in continuing to discuss this with you. "Impossible" is a
strong word.  If that really applies in the UK, then you guys have some very
seriously large problems.  I have had posters from the UK talk like they
don't expect any new generation capability to be built even in 30 years.
What happened to the UK, one time ruler of the waves, breakers of the Enigma
code?  You guys can't even figure out how to install electric outlets???


Blimey. Here's a remarkable event: I'm going to side with CD.

Yes, the UK is rather different to the USA.

Yes, in quite a few locations installing electrical outlets
will be difficult to the point of being impossible.

https://www.amazon.com/Conntek-20261-100-Extension-Cord-Listed/dp/B078KHQ7QZ/

yankee ingenuity to the rescue

Good try, but no cigar.

But just a /little/ impractical when it has to reach from
the top-floor flat (zoomed in) to the red car (zoomed out
then behind right foot):
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4660229,-2.6098948,3a,15y,46.44h,100.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBvUrLYxFNTfvp42f4NJkiA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

That would be normal near where I live, and triple the
distance is often the case!

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:17:15 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 14:32:50 -0700, Rick C wrote:

They sell the model 3 pretty inexpensively.

Perhaps that's why the company has just turned in a $700m loss for the
first quarter of this year. Any fool can sell cheap cars at a loss until
they go broke!
All the major investment sites agree Tesla is deep in the shit with no
easy answers as to how to get out of it.

Musk's talent is raising large amounts of money and squandering larger
amounts. He has to keep playing boy genius inventor to keep churning
up investors. Things like that don't last.

Solar City, Boring, PowerWalls, batteries, the solar tile thing, the
hyperloop, Tesla, all losers. SpaceX might survive, but seems to
follow the Musk pattern so far: hype, borrowing, repeat.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 19:37:35 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:50:29 -0700, Rick C wrote:

I have to acknowledge that if this 2 kW number is correct and a large
fraction of homes in the UK receive such meager distribution, home EV
charging of any significant fraction of the cars would be impossible.
Otherwise adding a simple 13 amp outlet accessible to the EV would
suffice for charging up to 150 miles per night or more.

The maximum draw per single domestic socket outlet is 13A. HOWEVER, most
homes can legitimately have up to 60A -100A by taking a dedicated spur
off the house's consumer unit/distribution board. The general limit per
domestic installation is limited by the power co's fuse which is
generally 100A maximum. I'm sure that's plenty for even an American. ;-)

I have two 150A entrance panels/breakers. ;-)

No one in the right mind would attempt to charge an EV from a 13A socket
(unless time was not a consideration.) ;-)

No one in their right mind would own an EV, so charging isn't a
problem.

There's nothing wrong with golf carts.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[bitrex]

On 6/16/19 3:08 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 11:31:23 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 02:41:27 -0700, Rick C wrote:

Let me repeat myself yet again. Charge at home, always have a full
battery in the morning and never have to drive to a busy, smelly, nasty
gas station again.

I thought you were referencing the situation specifically in the UK,
where access to charging, even if you own your own home, is frequently
impossible.

There is no point in continuing to discuss this with you. "Impossible" is a strong word. If that really applies in the UK, then you guys have some very seriously large problems. I have had posters from the UK talk like they don't expect any new generation capability to be built even in 30 years. What happened to the UK, one time ruler of the waves, breakers of the Enigma code? You guys can't even figure out how to install electric outlets???

<https://www.amazon.com/Conntek-20261-100-Extension-Cord-Listed/dp/B078KHQ7QZ/>

they said it couldn't be done

 

[bitrex]

On 6/16/19 4:23 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 16/06/19 20:08, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 11:31:23 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 02:41:27 -0700, Rick C wrote:

Let me repeat myself yet again.  Charge at home, always have a full
battery in the morning and never have to drive to a busy, smelly,
nasty gas station again.

I thought you were referencing the situation specifically in the UK,
where
access to charging, even if you own your own home, is frequently
impossible.

There is no point in continuing to discuss this with you.
"Impossible" is a
strong word.  If that really applies in the UK, then you guys have
some very
seriously large problems.  I have had posters from the UK talk like they
don't expect any new generation capability to be built even in 30 years.
What happened to the UK, one time ruler of the waves, breakers of the
Enigma
code?  You guys can't even figure out how to install electric outlets???


Blimey. Here's a remarkable event: I'm going to side with CD.

Yes, the UK is rather different to the USA.

Yes, in quite a few locations installing electrical outlets
will be difficult to the point of being impossible.

<https://www.amazon.com/Conntek-20261-100-Extension-Cord-Listed/dp/B078KHQ7QZ/>

yankee ingenuity to the rescue

Yes, installation is only part of the problem; there are
others, as mentioned by people that actually know the UK.

And, quite frankly, it is ridiculous to mutter about rulers
of the waves, enigma code etc, when the US can't even give
healthcare to all its citizens, and refuses to reduce its
appalling infant mortality rate, etc.

 

On Sunday, 16 June 2019 17:49:37 UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
....

No, it takes an "Evil Genius" level of fool. Having a bunch of
politicians in your pocket and a few hundred million taxpayers forced
to pay you to fail, helps too.
....

Tesla paid back all their government loans.

kw

 

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:17:15 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 14:32:50 -0700, Rick C wrote:

They sell the model 3 pretty inexpensively.

Perhaps that's why the company has just turned in a $700m loss for the
first quarter of this year. Any fool can sell cheap cars at a loss until
they go broke!

No, it takes an "Evil Genius" level of fool. Having a bunch of
politicians in your pocket and a few hundred million taxpayers forced
to pay you to fail, helps too.

All the major investment sites agree Tesla is deep in the shit with no
easy answers as to how to get out of it.

Keep doubling down, of course. The Fanbois, like Rick, will so their
part to help too.

 

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:58:07 +0100, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:

On 16/06/2019 17:41, Winfield Hill wrote:
John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...

I can charge on the street, if I can park within two
car spots of my driveway. Apartment dwellers in a
crowded city have a problem. Several are like that
here at work, but they can charge up in our garage.

Its the transition that will probably be most problematic where only
some on street parking spots have access to a charger, and lots of those
get blocked by IC engine cars.

Seems like a business opportunity here. Block access and move for a
"small" fee. Much better than a lemonade stand (cities are cracking
down on those).

 

On 16 Jun 2019 09:41:26 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:

John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...

I can charge on the street, if I can park within two
car spots of my driveway. Apartment dwellers in a
crowded city have a problem. Several are like that
here at work, but they can charge up in our garage.

You're allowed to put a power cord across the public right-of-way
(sidewalk, boulevard, etc.)?

 

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 18:07:39 -0700 (PDT), keith@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Sunday, 16 June 2019 17:49:37 UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
...

No, it takes an "Evil Genius" level of fool. Having a bunch of
politicians in your pocket and a few hundred million taxpayers forced
to pay you to fail, helps too.
...

Tesla paid back all their government loans.

Good grief. Do you really believe what you say? Do really believe
that's all the taxpayer has forked over to Musk? Idiot.

 

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 17:18:35 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 19:37:35 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:50:29 -0700, Rick C wrote:

I have to acknowledge that if this 2 kW number is correct and a large
fraction of homes in the UK receive such meager distribution, home EV
charging of any significant fraction of the cars would be impossible.
Otherwise adding a simple 13 amp outlet accessible to the EV would
suffice for charging up to 150 miles per night or more.

The maximum draw per single domestic socket outlet is 13A. HOWEVER, most
homes can legitimately have up to 60A -100A by taking a dedicated spur
off the house's consumer unit/distribution board. The general limit per
domestic installation is limited by the power co's fuse which is
generally 100A maximum. I'm sure that's plenty for even an American. ;-)

I have two 150A entrance panels/breakers. ;-)

No one in the right mind would attempt to charge an EV from a 13A socket
(unless time was not a consideration.) ;-)

No one in their right mind would own an EV, so charging isn't a
problem.

There's nothing wrong with golf carts.

They're on the streets all around here. Kids are allowed to drive
them at 14 and few have the brains to do it safely. One cut my wife
off today. The bimbette didn't even look when she zoomed around the
corner just in front of us. *NEVER* saw us, even after.

 

[bitrex]

On 6/16/19 8:32 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 17/06/19 00:59, bitrex wrote:
On 6/16/19 4:23 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 16/06/19 20:08, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 11:31:23 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 02:41:27 -0700, Rick C wrote:

Let me repeat myself yet again.  Charge at home, always have a
full battery in the morning and never have to drive to a busy,
smelly, nasty gas station again.

I thought you were referencing the situation specifically in the
UK, where
access to charging, even if you own your own home, is frequently
impossible.

There is no point in continuing to discuss this with you.
"Impossible" is a
strong word.  If that really applies in the UK, then you guys have
some very
seriously large problems.  I have had posters from the UK talk like
they
don't expect any new generation capability to be built even in 30
years.
What happened to the UK, one time ruler of the waves, breakers of
the Enigma
code?  You guys can't even figure out how to install electric
outlets???


Blimey. Here's a remarkable event: I'm going to side with CD.

Yes, the UK is rather different to the USA.

Yes, in quite a few locations installing electrical outlets
will be difficult to the point of being impossible.

https://www.amazon.com/Conntek-20261-100-Extension-Cord-Listed/dp/B078KHQ7QZ/


yankee ingenuity to the rescue

Good try, but no cigar.

But just a /little/ impractical when it has to reach from
the top-floor flat (zoomed in) to the red car (zoomed out
then behind right foot):
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4660229,-2.6098948,3a,15y,46.44h,100.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBvUrLYxFNTfvp42f4NJkiA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


That would be normal near where I live, and triple the
distance is often the case!

wow, look at all those Audis, Rovers, BMWs and shit all lined up with
their rims still on lol. Tiny street, that street could be stripped for
parts in like 10 min.

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 11:08:44 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Sunday, 16 June 2019 20:02:53 UTC-7, Rick C wrote:
..
Do you know anything about why they lost money in Q1 after turning large profits in Q3 and Q4 last year?

...

They had to fill the channel with Model 3 for sales in Europe and China and they had a $900M bond payment come due.

It didn't help that the Model S and X are due a refresh that had been leaked probably holding up their sales.

The bond payment doesn't affect profit, that impacted cash on hand though.

The profit was down for two reasons. You got the first one. They can't sell cars that are on boats and in the ship yards. The other loss of profit was because they were converting the model S and X lines to build both cars on one line and shut down the other line so it could be rebuilt for model Y production. The old model S line was relatively ancient compared to what they are using now and the model Y line will be mostly new equipment. The result was fewer S and X deliveries which have a high profit margin.

This is what I've heard anyway.

The low S and X deliveries could have been a matter of low orders so they went ahead and shuffled the lines, or this was planned all along. We'll likely not know unless someone asks Musk in the next call and he doesn't get pissed and answers.

My bet is the S and X orders weren't down or the drop in sales likely would have happened last year. It was too large a drop for the model 3 to have finally impacted S and X sales after two quarters of 3 delivery with no impact.

--

Rick C.

++-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Sunday, 16 June 2019 20:02:53 UTC-7, Rick C wrote:
...

Do you know anything about why they lost money in Q1 after turning large profits in Q3 and Q4 last year?

....

They had to fill the channel with Model 3 for sales in Europe and China and they had a $900M bond payment come due.

It didn't help that the Model S and X are due a refresh that had been leaked probably holding up their sales.

kw

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 7:41:19 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:11:39 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:50:29 -0700, Rick C wrote:

I have to acknowledge that if this 2 kW number is correct and a large
fraction of homes in the UK receive such meager distribution, home EV
charging of any significant fraction of the cars would be impossible.
Otherwise adding a simple 13 amp outlet accessible to the EV would
suffice for charging up to 150 miles per night or more.

The maximum draw per single domestic socket outlet is 13A. HOWEVER, most
homes can legitimately have up to 60A -100A by taking a dedicated spur
off the house's consumer unit/distribution board. The general limit per
domestic installation is limited by the power co's fuse which is
generally 100A maximum. I'm sure that's plenty for even an American. ;-)

No one in the right mind would attempt to charge an EV from a 13A socket
(unless time was not a consideration.) ;-)

We have 30KW, 120-N-120 at 125 amps. We have gas too, so we use a tiny
fraction of that capacity.

120V outlets are good for 15A, I think. The clothes dryer socket is
240V, but it uses gas too.

Most US outlets are 15A per outlet but there are two on the typical
"duplex" fixture. There is a total maximum of 20A on these circuits.
20A 120V outlets also exist but the pin configuration is different
(one horizontal pin) and only one is allowed (can't be duplexed).

You mean like these outlets?

https://www.ebay.com/bhp/20-amp-receptacle

--

Rick C.

+-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 7:17:19 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 14:32:50 -0700, Rick C wrote:

They sell the model 3 pretty inexpensively.

Perhaps that's why the company has just turned in a $700m loss for the
first quarter of this year. Any fool can sell cheap cars at a loss until
they go broke!
All the major investment sites agree Tesla is deep in the shit with no
easy answers as to how to get out of it.

Do you know anything about why they lost money in Q1 after turning large profits in Q3 and Q4 last year?

--

Rick C.

+-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Steve Wilson]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Product idea: an outlet sort of like a GFD, but it cuts off if too
many KWH are used in some time period. For garages and motels and
things that don't want electric car owners stealing their power.

You have been driving for hours, check into a motel and find you cannot
recharge your car?

Go across the street to another motel that advertises charge hookups. Just
add the cost to your room bill.

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:05:31 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On 16 Jun 2019 09:41:26 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

John Rumm wrote...

Street charging is a more difficult problem to solve...

I can charge on the street, if I can park within two
car spots of my driveway. Apartment dwellers in a
crowded city have a problem. Several are like that
here at work, but they can charge up in our garage.

You're allowed to put a power cord across the public right-of-way
(sidewalk, boulevard, etc.)?

Product idea: an outlet sort of like a GFD, but it cuts off if too
many KWH are used in some time period. For garages and motels and
things that don't want electric car owners stealing their power.

This group can be so entertaining at times. lol

Larkin is so jealous he is about to wet his pants!

--

Rick C.

++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209