Electrify I-40, I-95 and I-5

[Bret Cahill]

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John

Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course.  Why do you ask?

grin

Michael

A better question is where will you get 40 quads of electrical power?

Ever hear of power plants?


Bret Cahill

 

[Bret Cahill]

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John

Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course.  Why do you ask?

grin

Michael

A better question is where will you get 40 quads of electrical power?

You would not need 40 quads.
Currently the entire US transportation sector uses 5 quads per year in
effective (wheel drive) energy.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USEnFlow02-quads.gif

5 quads per year is about 50% of our current electricity use.
That is still a lot, but it is within reason and could be achieved by a good
investment in electric power generation, especially if most of that power
would be needed at night (recharging vehicle batteries) when power usage is
currently very low.

Now to get this power to the vehicles, a electrified highway system sounds
like one of the most expensive solutions, especially since people that do
not enter the freeway on their dayly drive would be excluded from using this
absurtly expensive system,

That's what they say about rail electrification which has been around
for decades.

and most energy would be used during peak hours.
So plug-in hybrids, charged at night, make a lot more sense...

What about long haul trucks?


Bret Cahill

 

[Bret Cahill]

A better question is where will you get 40 quads of electrical power?

You would not need 40 quads.
Currently the entire US transportation sector uses 5 quads per year in
effective (wheel drive) energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USEnFlow02-quads.gif

And you're going to use efficiency fairies to get that 5q of
mechanical energy from 5q of electrical energy?

Motors are 90 - 95% efficient.

5 quads per year is about 50% of our current electricity use.
That is still a lot, but it is within reason and could be achieved by a good
investment in electric power generation, especially if most of that power
would be needed at night (recharging vehicle batteries) when power usage is
currently very low.

Oh, we'd only have to DOUBLE generation capacity

If you know where to find an infinite amount of oil, please Email me
before saying anything to anyone else.


Bret Cahill

 

[Bret Cahill]

I kind of like the idea behind the nytimes article I posted earlier
(which a co-worker had emailed to me).  Similar to when you buy a
propane barbecue stove... just exchange the empty cylinder for a
refilled one.  Fast, convenient, already professionally inspected for
defects.  Apply the same logic to electric car batteries.  Nice.

I had that idea over 30 years ago. Trouble is, the batteries have to be AWFULLY
BIG.

Batteries make more sense with the economies of scale of larger
vehicles. Electric delivery trucks persisted decades after passenger
cars went ICE.


Bret Cahill

 

[Bret Cahill]

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

A better idea: electric vehicle battery-swap

stations.http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10friedman.html?em

All we need is 100 million tons of Li if we include trucks and buses.


Bret Cahill

 

[Eeyore]

Bret Cahill wrote:

I kind of like the idea behind the nytimes article I posted earlier
(which a co-worker had emailed to me). Similar to when you buy a
propane barbecue stove... just exchange the empty cylinder for a
refilled one. Fast, convenient, already professionally inspected for
defects. Apply the same logic to electric car batteries. Nice.

I had that idea over 30 years ago. Trouble is, the batteries have to be AWFULLY
BIG.

Batteries make more sense with the economies of scale of larger
vehicles. Electric delivery trucks persisted decades after passenger
cars went ICE.

Only on limited runs though.

Graham

 

On Dec 12, 12:43 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:

I kind of like the idea behind the nytimes article I posted earlier
(which a co-worker had emailed to me). Similar to when you buy a
propane barbecue stove... just exchange the empty cylinder for a
refilled one. Fast, convenient, already professionally inspected for
defects. Apply the same logic to electric car batteries. Nice.
I had that idea over 30 years ago. Trouble is, the batteries have to be AWFULLY
BIG.

Batteries make more sense with the economies of scale of larger
vehicles. Electric delivery trucks persisted decades after passenger
cars went ICE.

Bret Cahill

Impressive:
http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/index.asp
http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/whysmith_advancedbattery.asp

Though I wonder how much the vehicles cost vs. a standard diesel.

Michael

 

[Eeyore]

mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:

On Dec 12, 12:43 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
I kind of like the idea behind the nytimes article I posted earlier
(which a co-worker had emailed to me). Similar to when you buy a
propane barbecue stove... just exchange the empty cylinder for a
refilled one. Fast, convenient, already professionally inspected for
defects. Apply the same logic to electric car batteries. Nice.
I had that idea over 30 years ago. Trouble is, the batteries have to be AWFULLY
BIG.

Batteries make more sense with the economies of scale of larger
vehicles. Electric delivery trucks persisted decades after passenger
cars went ICE.

Impressive:
http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/index.asp
http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/whysmith_advancedbattery.asp

Though I wonder how much the vehicles cost vs. a standard diesel.

No idea there.

The small van has a max range of 100 mi though. OK for around town but not general use.

The big streamlined truck can do 150 mi but max speed only 50 mph. Even that, they are
promoting for urban operations only.

Graham

 

[Maximust]

Eeyore wrote:

Maximust wrote:

Bret Cahill wrote:

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Throw away the cars, tear up the highways, and install an electric railroad
in their place instead.

You're going to run trains every minute ?

Perhaps. What's the alternative, pretend there is a future of happy motoring?

Graham

 

[krw]

In article <ac909727-380d-4e64-b9e8-fde0bc142d50
@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, BretCahill@aol.com says...

A better question is where will you get 40 quads of electrical power?

You would not need 40 quads.
Currently the entire US transportation sector uses 5 quads per year in
effective (wheel drive) energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USEnFlow02-quads.gif

And you're going to use efficiency fairies to get that 5q of
mechanical energy from 5q of electrical energy?

Motors are 90 - 95% efficient.

And transmissions and power distribution is 105 - 110% efficient to
make up for it, right? Dumbass.

5 quads per year is about 50% of our current electricity use.
That is still a lot, but it is within reason and could be achieved by a good
investment in electric power generation, especially if most of that power
would be needed at night (recharging vehicle batteries) when power usage is
currently very low.

Oh, we'd only have to DOUBLE generation capacity

If you know where to find an infinite amount of oil, please Email me
before saying anything to anyone else.

There is plenty of oil for some time. It's become politically
incorrect to use it. IOW, it's a political problem. OTOH, using
oil to generate electricity is stupid.

--
Keith

 

[Claude Hopper]

Bret Cahill wrote:

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.


Bret Cahill

Magnetic induction cable buried in road with pick up coils on vehicles
to run electric and charge batteries. Batteries used on secondary roads.
Total electric transportation.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Claude Hopper wrote:

Bret Cahill wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.


Bret Cahill


Magnetic induction cable buried in road with pick up coils on vehicles
to run electric and charge batteries. Batteries used on secondary roads.
Total electric transportation.

At the lowest possible efficiency.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[krw]

In article <f76dncw4F5tQhd7UnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@giganews.com>,
boobooililililil@roadrunner.com says...

Bret Cahill wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.


Bret Cahill


Magnetic induction cable buried in road with pick up coils on vehicles
to run electric and charge batteries. Batteries used on secondary roads.
Total electric transportation.

You're not an electrical engineer, are you?

--
Keith

 

[Rob Dekker]

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message news:b2f11646-1d42-49b4-9743-f5c706576b48@d42g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
......

and most energy would be used during peak hours.
So plug-in hybrids, charged at night, make a lot more sense...

What about long haul trucks?

I want to bet that they (with all other heavy equipment) go series hybrid, just like diesel-electric locomotives did a long time
ago.

 

[Rob Dekker]

"krw" <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote in message news:MPG.23ac1c8dbfb2d39e9896fc@news.individual.net...
.....

You would not need 40 quads.
Currently the entire US transportation sector uses 5 quads per year in
effective (wheel drive) energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USEnFlow02-quads.gif

And you're going to use efficiency fairies to get that 5q of
mechanical energy from 5q of electrical energy?

It's a ball park number, pumpkin.

5 quads per year is about 50% of our current electricity use.
That is still a lot, but it is within reason and could be achieved by a good
investment in electric power generation, especially if most of that power
would be needed at night (recharging vehicle batteries) when power usage is
currently very low.

Oh, we'd only have to DOUBLE generation capacity, even with your
efficiency fairies.

First of all, 50% increase is not a doubling.
Second, night time electricity use is low right now, and that's exactly when vehicles will be charged up.
So the CAPACITY of power generation does not need to change for a long time to come.

Now to get this power to the vehicles, a electrified highway system sounds
like one of the most expensive solutions, especially since people that do
not enter the freeway on their dayly drive would be excluded from using this
absurtly expensive system, and most energy would be used during peak hours.
So plug-in hybrids, charged at night, make a lot more sense...

Maybe more sense than efficiency fairies, but still no sense. A
greenie weenie plan, to be sure.

Greenie weenie ? Sure, whatever.
But it's economically vital though, because it will get us off imported oil. And that saves billions per day and then some...

 

[krw]

In article <7YG0l.9810$yr3.8702@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
rob@verific.com says...

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message news:b2f11646-1d42-49b4-9743-f5c706576b48@d42g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
.....

and most energy would be used during peak hours.
So plug-in hybrids, charged at night, make a lot more sense...

What about long haul trucks?


I want to bet that they (with all other heavy equipment) go series hybrid, just like diesel-electric locomotives did a long time
ago.

Weight helps a locomotive. It doesn't help a truck. The major
advantage of DE is torque range, something taken care of well by the
trucks transmission. DE has been used in heavy earthmovingmachines,
for some of the same reasons (low-end torque and weight) as it has
in locomotives. I don't see that happening with trucks, unless
perhaps it's with a gas turbine/electric or some such.

--
Keith

 

[krw]

In article <7YG0l.9811$yr3.2919@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
rob@verific.com says...

"krw" <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote in message news:MPG.23ac1c8dbfb2d39e9896fc@news.individual.net...
....
You would not need 40 quads.
Currently the entire US transportation sector uses 5 quads per year in
effective (wheel drive) energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USEnFlow02-quads.gif

And you're going to use efficiency fairies to get that 5q of
mechanical energy from 5q of electrical energy?

It's a ball park number, pumpkin.

You ought to go back and play in the park, kid.

5 quads per year is about 50% of our current electricity use.
That is still a lot, but it is within reason and could be achieved by a good
investment in electric power generation, especially if most of that power
would be needed at night (recharging vehicle batteries) when power usage is
currently very low.

Oh, we'd only have to DOUBLE generation capacity, even with your
efficiency fairies.

First of all, 50% increase is not a doubling.

Your efficiency fairies are hard at work again, I see.

Second, night time electricity use is low right now, and that's exactly when vehicles will be charged up.

Why not use that electricity for heating? Get rid of the stationary
oil usage before you go after what oil is *really* *really* good
for.

So the CAPACITY of power generation does not need to change for a long time to come.

Nonsense. You're going to double load and need no more capacity.
You certainly *do* have some fairies in your bonnet.

Now to get this power to the vehicles, a electrified highway system sounds
like one of the most expensive solutions, especially since people that do
not enter the freeway on their dayly drive would be excluded from using this
absurtly expensive system, and most energy would be used during peak hours.
So plug-in hybrids, charged at night, make a lot more sense...

Maybe more sense than efficiency fairies, but still no sense. A
greenie weenie plan, to be sure.


Greenie weenie ? Sure, whatever.

Yep. ...and green behind the ears too.

But it's economically vital though, because it will get us off imported oil. And that saves billions per day and then some...

Nonsense. That's a political problem, *easily* solved. String up
the greenie weenies (and lawyers) first.

--
Keith

 

[Rob Dekker]

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message news:MPG.23acfbb5938e68af98a447@news.individual.net...

In article <7YG0l.9810$yr3.8702@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
rob@verific.com says...

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message news:b2f11646-1d42-49b4-9743-f5c706576b48@d42g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
.....

and most energy would be used during peak hours.
So plug-in hybrids, charged at night, make a lot more sense...

What about long haul trucks?


I want to bet that they (with all other heavy equipment) go series hybrid, just like diesel-electric locomotives did a long time
ago.

Weight helps a locomotive. It doesn't help a truck. The major
advantage of DE is torque range, something taken care of well by the
trucks transmission. DE has been used in heavy earthmovingmachines,
for some of the same reasons (low-end torque and weight) as it has
in locomotives. I don't see that happening with trucks, unless
perhaps it's with a gas turbine/electric or some such.

Series hybrid with a battery has a lot of advantages over plain ICE.
Some 'efficiency' related ones are here :
- regenerative braking and 'down-the-hill' energy recovery, as well as accelleration is all-electric (thus highly efficient).
- the ICE in a series hybrid only needs to provide power to overcome rulling and air drag losses, thus can be much smaller, thus
more efficient.
- the ICE in a series hybrid can run at highly efficient RPMs, thus more efficient.

Overall, it's not difficult to make a series hybrid with that is 3x more efficient than a ICE-only version.
Actually that is also the case for series-hybrid passenger vehicles. The 'Volt' for example gets 60 mpg when running with it's
generator only.

--
Keith

 

[Piscesdream]

On Dec 11, 9:05 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Why cant they use Fed funds to install a charging station at the rest
stops and truck stops?

 

[Bret Cahill]

That's a political problem

Kind of like the political problem of GOP bottom fishing in the info
age.

All Repugs can get are fundies and trailer trash.


Bret Cahill