Electric Cars Not Yet Viable

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:51:18 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

The proponents would say robotic automation would do it. Which is
certainly possible. But do the math on the size of the batteries and
the facility size necessary to store them, how many bays with robots
that cost how much, etc. And there is your huge problem compared to
a gas station.

I'm trying to figure how many would be needed. Last time I charged there were about 4 EVs per hour coming in to charge. Since it takes about an hour to charge, that would mean you would need 4 batteries. Ok, make it 6 to handle the overflow times... or even 8.

Your entire point is that you think people have to charge their EVs the same way you fill your gas tank. That's simply not what happens. Pay close attention... EVs can be charged at home. Did you get that? Do you finally understand???

--

Rick C.

+--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.

Funny thing is gas and diesel cars don't like cold. They get hard to start, can't heat the passengers until they are warmed up and require being warmed up to prevent damage to the drive train before driving at highway speeds.. Jeeze, these ICE things are complicated to use. Makes you wonder why anyone wants them...

--

Rick C.

+-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 12:12:00 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Rick C wrote:

EVS DON'T NEED CHARGING STATIONS WHEN PEOPLE CAN CHARGE AT HOME!!!

Did that get through?

MANY CAN'T!!!

Did that get through?

He probably lives in a ranch-style house with a lawn and a carport and
a swimming pool in the burbs somewhere. Not everybody does.

I park on the street. I couldn't run an extension cord to my car, not
that I'd want an electric car.

There's an article in today's newspaper about a bunch of people who
ride electric unicycles. Enthusiasts. Same idea.

Me having experience with an electric unicycle (the experience is what I
bought it for) I can tell you that is apples and oranges. It's for fun
unless you can go without carrying anything. Not comparable to most
electric vehicles. And, currently they are probably inefficient, besides
requiring a full set of protective gear.

Unicycles don't require protective gear. If you start losing control you just step off.

The tall ones with chain drives are a different proposition, but the direct pedal drive one that I had and could ride (if not all that far) never damaged anybody.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.

See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.

 

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

The proponents would say robotic automation would do it. Which is
certainly possible. But do the math on the size of the batteries and
the facility size necessary to store them, how many bays with robots
that cost how much, etc. And there is your huge problem compared to
a gas station.

 

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 9:02:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 8:41:08 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 5:50:16 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

You can't seem to grasp the concept. First your assumption that all of the smart people go to college is flat out wrong. Many of the people I know who did not go to college are very smart. It is not at all uncommon for college to be unaffordable, so the utility of the idea of free college.
Huh, OK I agree college is too expensive, but why go to 'make it free',
rather than, asking how to make it less expensive, free is the wrong
incentive.

First, when they say, "free", there would still be barriers to getting into college. Hopefully they just wouldn't be economic.

ROFL, sure good luck with that. I'm black, I'm dumb, you're a racist, I
want my free college! I'm an illegal alien, you're a racist, I want my
free college. Bernie just called for free healthcare for illegal aliens,
so why not college too? Hell, we're already on that path! In many states,
illegal aliens qualify for lower state college rates in the state they
are living in. Imagine that! An illegal alien living in NJ pays less
to go to Rutgers than a US citizen, born and living in PA.

Well, sure then, but not "less expensive" which still means expensive. How about "affordable" which will require something like the ACA where there are means tests and subsidies all the way up to a free ride. There are scholarships now based on need. It would be good to have those available to anyone otherwise qualified to attend college.

Yes, let;s start another cluster f***. Means tests, subsidies, lets expand
the DOE, hire another 50,000 govt workers.

Ok, how about this alteration to the idea. Only people going in to rather high paid professions should get free schooling. So no free college for doctors. In fact, make them pay for primary and secondary schooling as well. lol


(I also think making college 'free' will continue the rising cost of
higher education, but that's a separate issue.)

I would tend to agree with you. Many of the high priced schools are state universities. But if they are already rising, will government sponsorship change that? Maybe they will apply economic forces to push the costs back down?


So you think college should be 'free'? Why?

The same reason why primary and secondary school should be free.
Huh? How is that free? Don't you pay taxes in your state?
Who is building/ maintaining the schools and paying the teachers?

Public schools are for everyone, college is for the smart ones.

But that is a fallacy in more than one way.

--

Rick C.

-++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.

Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[bitrex]

On 6/26/19 10:37 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 8:02:15 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 7:53 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 5:51 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 1:24:44 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 1:21 PM, bitrex wrote:

And you know what a young person might say at that point? FUCK YOU, OLD
MAN. Ha!

and I don't blame them one bit. Tell an old boostrap-theory
Puritan-work-ethic codger who could buy a new car for $2000 in 1973vto
go fuck themselves, today. It feels great!


Don't have to like it. Probably won't. Keep in mind though that a lot of
the "kids these days" think guillotines are a more cost-effective option
than caring for aging boomers who always want to go on and on about how
easy it all is.

Maybe we shouldn't teach French anymore?


citizens in positions of real power regularly, who are somewhat less
than pushing 75 years old on average, would probably be enough to please
'em.

The kids these days know well enough that the experience and wisdom that
can come with age has advantages in positions like that but lately often
have trouble finding anything but 10 year olds in 70 year old bodies
occupying them.

they accurately recognize having the bumbling and elderly running things
as the luxury-social-security-in-all-but-name program that it is and
start thinking about questions of expendability

Everyone's so shocked that there's a 29 y/o female ex-bartender holding
a seat in Congress only thing shocking is that it didn't happen sooner
given that prolly near half of her age bracket is stuck working service
industry dead-end jobs.

You think just maybe that's because she got a degree in economics and is
dumb as a brick?

She had a parent whose home was getting foreclosed on that needed
support and there aren't that many private sector jobs immediately
available for BU-educated economics majors in the Bronx, I imagine.

She probably could've done what many economics majors do and go for
their masters and PhD and end up teaching in the university system as an
adjunct, or in academia, respectively, but depending on the venue
bar-tending pays much better. and you don't end up $200,000 further in
debt. Doesn't sound so "economically illiterate" to me.

Also you don't have to deal with all the shit heads with PhDs in
academia who will be your bosses. they all got there because they were
very smart there was no sucking of dicks involved I assure you! okay
well maybe a few dicks.

still makes her "coastal elite" according to the standards of many
engineers here I'm sure; you can always be a "coastal elite" even if you
spent most your working life waiting tables while some probable autist
with an engineering degree who was playing with vacuum tubes at age 7
can imagine themselves working class by reading books about manly
professions like mining, trucking, logging and farming that they never did

 

[bitrex]

On 6/26/19 11:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.

The coldest I ever drove the Volt in on electric power was about -15 F

It was unhappy for a minute or two on start, the dash displayed
something like "Propulsion power reduced: Temperature" and acceleration
was sluggish

Then after a minute or two it was fine and seemed to perform normally

 

[bitrex]

On 6/26/19 12:03 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 6/26/19 11:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of
the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach.  I believe it was fairly
recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where
you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time.  It's
really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty  Even to go on a ski trip from NYC
to VT
it's absurd.  It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer?  I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.



The coldest I ever drove the Volt in on electric power was about -15 F

It was unhappy for a minute or two on start, the dash displayed
something like "Propulsion power reduced: Temperature" and acceleration
was sluggish

Then after a minute or two it was fine and seemed to perform normally

In weather like that though because the Volt also has a gas-burner it
will automatically bring up the engine and run engine coolant thru the
heat-exchanger to bring the battery "coolant" up to optimum temperature
rapidly.

I believe the Teslas use waste heat from their larger drive motors to do
something similar

 

[bitrex]

On 6/26/19 11:31 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:51:07 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.

We have a member here who actually keeps a bug out bag in case there is some emergency that means he has to leave his home for some time. No, I don't prepare for that, but then I have more than one home. I'm not going to plan my life around an event with 10,000 to 1 odds.

No one is asking you to do anything. I wouldn't mind if you stop posting drivel about EVs, but otherwise you are not relevant to the EV discussion. You are the "pry my spark plug wrench from my cold dead hands" type who is not going to participate in any meaningful way until the last gas station in your town closes. Ok, we got that.

You don't actually listen to anything anyone else posts. You have an idea in your mind and refuse to be open to a meaningful discussion.

Ok, are we done here?

I don't have a lot of sympathy for nominal engineers whose reasons for
not doing things are hypothetical like "But what if this uncommon
situation happened and...OMG! what would I do?? I might have to
improvise or think on the spot an ad hoc solution"

"this is the best that the government, the ah, the US government can
come up with?"

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B7MzBmjaJ8>

Think something up that works that's what people pay you for isn't it mr
engineer? Right? even my girl friend has a fine ability to come up with
solutions on the spot she don't just throw up her hands "MY LIFE STYLE
IS COMPROMISED"

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:07:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/26/19 12:03 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/26/19 11:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of
the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach.  I believe it was fairly
recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where
you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time.  It's
really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty  Even to go on a ski trip from NYC
to VT
it's absurd.  It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer?  I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.



The coldest I ever drove the Volt in on electric power was about -15 F

It was unhappy for a minute or two on start, the dash displayed
something like "Propulsion power reduced: Temperature" and acceleration
was sluggish

Then after a minute or two it was fine and seemed to perform normally


In weather like that though because the Volt also has a gas-burner it
will automatically bring up the engine and run engine coolant thru the
heat-exchanger to bring the battery "coolant" up to optimum temperature
rapidly.

Yes, having a gasoline engine really helps.

The real trick is to park an all-electric outdoors overnight at
below-0 temps. Without running an extension cord to the battery
heater.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Doe]

Wait a minute... Just yesterday, Loony was bashing me for "knowing
nothing about electronics design". Now, Loony is bashing electronics
engineers...

--
bitrex <user example.net> wrote:

Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.unit0.net!peer01.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx36.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
Subject: Re: Electric Cars Not Yet Viable
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
References: <qep68d$45o$8 dont-email.me> <9nl0he5qhanlcb2nmkrcqa39qcj5dmjmql 4ax.com> <irKdnWj3kfyMfY3AnZ2dnUU78dWdnZ2d brightview.co.uk> <23r1hept1cfr28frf3kjgtc49cb3sopbtl 4ax.com> <0e6eea09-6afb-4635-815c-6b0332155c01 googlegroups.com> <l8c2hedh73f8lsi1kkcns2cd7tva03khl3 4ax.com> <4236643a-9193-4319-b4ba-17f6f8692d58 googlegroups.com> <XreQE.6126$y75.266 fx35.iad> <94916366-4d0c-43ab-b06d-53eff8b748c8 googlegroups.com> <y2rQE.797$qo3.742 fx24.iad> <812e39bb-15c9-4f02-a027-71ce655cf66d googlegroups.com> <bbe3e90d-0e95-4e39-841f-cd83ca98a512 googlegroups.com> <mKsQE.947$oI3.594 fx19.iad> <sNsQE.948$oI3.352 fx19.iad> <bef3c58b-8f24-4c9f-ab1d-6dd4eee8a482 googlegroups.com> <auyQE.1234$d75.486 fx36.iad> <7CyQE.3252$564.1856 fx12.iad> <abf72719-ae9a-4e53-a544-6b453f5eb202 googlegroups.com
From: bitrex <user example.net
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On 6/26/19 10:37 AM, trader4 optonline.net wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 8:02:15 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 7:53 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 5:51 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 1:24:44 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 1:21 PM, bitrex wrote:

And you know what a young person might say at that point? FUCK YOU, OLD
MAN. Ha!

and I don't blame them one bit. Tell an old boostrap-theory
Puritan-work-ethic codger who could buy a new car for $2000 in 1973vto
go fuck themselves, today. It feels great!


Don't have to like it. Probably won't. Keep in mind though that a lot of
the "kids these days" think guillotines are a more cost-effective option
than caring for aging boomers who always want to go on and on about how
easy it all is.

Maybe we shouldn't teach French anymore?


citizens in positions of real power regularly, who are somewhat less
than pushing 75 years old on average, would probably be enough to please
'em.

The kids these days know well enough that the experience and wisdom that
can come with age has advantages in positions like that but lately often
have trouble finding anything but 10 year olds in 70 year old bodies
occupying them.

they accurately recognize having the bumbling and elderly running things
as the luxury-social-security-in-all-but-name program that it is and
start thinking about questions of expendability

Everyone's so shocked that there's a 29 y/o female ex-bartender holding
a seat in Congress only thing shocking is that it didn't happen sooner
given that prolly near half of her age bracket is stuck working service
industry dead-end jobs.

You think just maybe that's because she got a degree in economics and is
dumb as a brick?

She had a parent whose home was getting foreclosed on that needed
support and there aren't that many private sector jobs immediately
available for BU-educated economics majors in the Bronx, I imagine.

She probably could've done what many economics majors do and go for
their masters and PhD and end up teaching in the university system as an
adjunct, or in academia, respectively, but depending on the venue
bar-tending pays much better. and you don't end up $200,000 further in
debt. Doesn't sound so "economically illiterate" to me.

Also you don't have to deal with all the shit heads with PhDs in
academia who will be your bosses. they all got there because they were
very smart there was no sucking of dicks involved I assure you! okay
well maybe a few dicks.

still makes her "coastal elite" according to the standards of many
engineers here I'm sure; you can always be a "coastal elite" even if you
spent most your working life waiting tables while some probable autist
with an engineering degree who was playing with vacuum tubes at age 7
can imagine themselves working class by reading books about manly
professions like mining, trucking, logging and farming that they never did

 

[John Doe]

I have ridden all sorts of wheeled vehicles on the street, from
in-line skates on up. I know when protective gear is necessary and
when it isn't. Any idiot can go without protective gear. The most
skilled and intelligent wear protective gear because it allows us to
push the envelope. Everybody falls. Wearing protective gear allows
the intelligent rider to get back up instead of possibly become a
lifelong burden on society.

The problem with the argument "you can just step off" is that, of
course, the idiot does not know when an obstacle will cause it to
fall (otherwise it would avoid the object), therefore there
will be imbalance from the very start of the fall.

Searching YouTube for (fast electric unicycle) clearly shows how
wrong the regular Australian troll is. Practically everybody is
wearing full protective gear. Even the 10th result about an ordinary
electric unicycle (street riding) shows an intelligent guy wearing a
helmet.

Some people argue a helmet isn't necessary while riding a bicycle on
the street, too. But the reason it's mandated by law in many areas
is not because we think the regular Australian troll's head will
damage something, rather wearing a helmet is mandated because we do
not want the idiot to become a lifelong burden on us.

As research shows... Wearing protective gear while on an electric
unicycle is important despite this regular Australian troll's
anecdotes about riding an ordinary unicycle on flat level terrain...

--
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman ieee.org> wrote:

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On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 12:12:00 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
John Larkin <jjlarkin highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Tom Gardner
spamjunk blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Rick C wrote:

EVS DON'T NEED CHARGING STATIONS WHEN PEOPLE CAN CHARGE AT HOME!!!

Did that get through?

MANY CAN'T!!!

Did that get through?

He probably lives in a ranch-style house with a lawn and a carport and
a swimming pool in the burbs somewhere. Not everybody does.

I park on the street. I couldn't run an extension cord to my car, not
that I'd want an electric car.

There's an article in today's newspaper about a bunch of people who
ride electric unicycles. Enthusiasts. Same idea.

Me having experience with an electric unicycle (the experience is what I
bought it for) I can tell you that is apples and oranges. It's for fun
unless you can go without carrying anything. Not comparable to most
electric vehicles. And, currently they are probably inefficient, besides
requiring a full set of protective gear.

Unicycles don't require protective gear. If you start losing control you just step off.

The tall ones with chain drives are a different proposition, but the direct pedal drive one that I had and could ride (if not all that far) never damaged anybody.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 6/26/19 1:10 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:07:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/26/19 12:03 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/26/19 11:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of
the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach.  I believe it was fairly
recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where
you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time.  It's
really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty  Even to go on a ski trip from NYC
to VT
it's absurd.  It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer?  I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.



The coldest I ever drove the Volt in on electric power was about -15 F

It was unhappy for a minute or two on start, the dash displayed
something like "Propulsion power reduced: Temperature" and acceleration
was sluggish

Then after a minute or two it was fine and seemed to perform normally


In weather like that though because the Volt also has a gas-burner it
will automatically bring up the engine and run engine coolant thru the
heat-exchanger to bring the battery "coolant" up to optimum temperature
rapidly.

Yes, having a gasoline engine really helps.

The real trick is to park an all-electric outdoors overnight at
below-0 temps. Without running an extension cord to the battery
heater.

For relevance to da group, the Volt's power electronics/hybrid drive
main logic board:

<https://www.rlocman.ru/i/Image/2013/12/30/Fig_3_Rus.jpg>

The PCB is by Hitachi and it has four Freescale "Qorivva" (???
unpronounceable) uPs on it, some kind of PowerPC derivative

 

[bitrex]

On 6/26/19 1:10 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:07:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/26/19 12:03 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/26/19 11:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of
the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach.  I believe it was fairly
recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where
you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time.  It's
really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty  Even to go on a ski trip from NYC
to VT
it's absurd.  It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer?  I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.



The coldest I ever drove the Volt in on electric power was about -15 F

It was unhappy for a minute or two on start, the dash displayed
something like "Propulsion power reduced: Temperature" and acceleration
was sluggish

Then after a minute or two it was fine and seemed to perform normally


In weather like that though because the Volt also has a gas-burner it
will automatically bring up the engine and run engine coolant thru the
heat-exchanger to bring the battery "coolant" up to optimum temperature
rapidly.

Yes, having a gasoline engine really helps.

Sub-zero F temperatures that are truly arctic are uncommon in most of
the CONUS. In MA we have perhaps 7 days a year where it dips negative
for a significant length of time.

Average temp during the day in January average between about 20 F for a
low and 40 F for high. Those temperatures are little-to-no performance
handicap to an electric propulsion system other than decreased range.
Turn it on at 20 degrees F, immediately pull out and jump on the highway
and accelerate up to 70 no problem at all it all works fine with the
battery coolant temp hovering around 30 degrees on start and increasing
to 60-70 F after a few minutes.

The real trick is to park an all-electric outdoors overnight at
below-0 temps. Without running an extension cord to the battery
heater.

You can apparently use a phone app to set your desired departure time
and the car will start warming up the systems ahead of time so the cabin
is heated and the battery and electronics loops are at temp. I've never
used this feature myself never really needed it.

 

[keith wright]

On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 10:13:41 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
....

The real trick is to park an all-electric outdoors overnight at
below-0 temps. Without running an extension cord to the battery
heater.

And yet Norway is one of the countries with the highest EV penetration:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-norway-autos/tesla-boom-lifts-norways-electric-car-sales-to-58-percent-market-share-idUSKCN1RD2BB

kw

 

[Tom Gardner]

Curiously a "Which?" review of the Tesla 3 has fallen
into my inbox. A few extracts...

"This gives you a range of some 264 miles based on our
tests, which mix urban, extra-urban and motorway driving
- rather less than the claimed range of 329 miles.

"Tesla claims that 170 miles of range can be added in
around half an hour, if you use the brand's roadside
Supercharger network. Charging at home will require
the installation of a dedicated high-capacity outlet,
keeping charging times down to a few hours, rather than
about 1.5 days using a domestic socket."

"However, the Autopilot system performed poorly in our tests.
It didn't detect variable speed limits, and when travelling
on motorways that cross over other roads it often picked up
the wrong speed limit and strongly reduced speed. Autopilot
also often failed to assess traffic situations correctly,
resulting in jerky deceleration and acceleration."

"The difference here is that Tesla is advertising it as
self-driving technology – something it most definitely isn’t,
and which would currently be illegal to use in the UK
if it were. Autonomous technology which allows the car
to take control of monitoring the driving environment
is currently not allowed on British roads, and
responsibility remains with the driver to maintain proper
control.

" We’ve referred Tesla to the Advertising Standards
Authority (ASA) regarding the Model 3’s self-driving claims,
as we feel it could result in improper and dangerous use
of these assistance systems.

Since those are excerpts, it would be better to read the
entire review - but you'll have to pay for that.

Nonetheless the autopilot's performance and legality are
of concern, as is the desirability of rewiring your house.

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 8:22:08 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:

Curiously a "Which?" review of the Tesla 3 has fallen
into my inbox. A few extracts...

"This gives you a range of some 264 miles based on our
tests, which mix urban, extra-urban and motorway driving
- rather less than the claimed range of 329 miles.

The advertised range is from EPA mandated testing. If you don't like the number blame the government, not Tesla. The 264 mile range of mixed use is not more realistic, it is of little value. The only time you care about range is on trips. When driving locally you plug in every night and start each day with a full tank. On trips you need enough range to reach a charger which can be close or far depending, but a 150 mile range always gets you there. With the true range you'll get on trips you often can skip chargers since they are spaced about 100 miles apart. You don't need to guess, the car tracks usage and calculates the remaining range in real time. The built in navigator recommends charging stops when you need them.

"Tesla claims that 170 miles of range can be added in
around half an hour, if you use the brand's roadside
Supercharger network. Charging at home will require
the installation of a dedicated high-capacity outlet,
keeping charging times down to a few hours, rather than
about 1.5 days using a domestic socket."

This all sounds about right. The "dedicated high-capacity outlet" is 240 volts, amps between 30 and 90. Expense is pretty minimal.

"However, the Autopilot system performed poorly in our tests.
It didn't detect variable speed limits, and when travelling
on motorways that cross over other roads it often picked up
the wrong speed limit and strongly reduced speed. Autopilot
also often failed to assess traffic situations correctly,
resulting in jerky deceleration and acceleration."

The auto-pilot is beta software and is never claimed to be ready for prime time. Just the opposite. However, it is largely functional and can relieve a lot of the effort in driving long trips.

"The difference here is that Tesla is advertising it as
self-driving technology – something it most definitely isn’t,
and which would currently be illegal to use in the UK
if it were. Autonomous technology which allows the car
to take control of monitoring the driving environment
is currently not allowed on British roads, and
responsibility remains with the driver to maintain proper
control.

Tesla does not even "advertise" much less advertise the auto-pilot.

" We’ve referred Tesla to the Advertising Standards
Authority (ASA) regarding the Model 3’s self-driving claims,
as we feel it could result in improper and dangerous use
of these assistance systems.

I'd love to see one of these "ads". They don't exist.

Since those are excerpts, it would be better to read the
entire review - but you'll have to pay for that.

Nonetheless the autopilot's performance and legality are
of concern, as is the desirability of rewiring your house.

Lol! Adding a 240 volt outlet is such a trivial thing to complain about. It's like a dryer or a range. How petty can you be? If a gas supply at home could be added so easily virtually everyone would have it. But instead you have to visit a gas station, where it is and when it is open rather than just hook up at home.

There is no question about the "legality" of the auto-pilot. You are thinking of the full-self-driving which while available to buy, is not presently functional. It won't be available until the issues are ironed out and the software if fully operable. Paying for full-self-driving gives you what they call Navigate-on-autopilot which simply allows the car to take exits off the highway if you enable it to.

The auto-pilot and full-self-driving are not part of the car, they are options. If you don't like them, don't order them.

--

Rick C.

+-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 6/26/19 9:14 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 6/26/19 8:22 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
Curiously a "Which?" review of the Tesla 3 has fallen
into my inbox. A few extracts...

"This gives you a range of some 264 miles based on our
  tests, which mix urban, extra-urban and motorway driving
  - rather less than the claimed range of 329 miles.

"Tesla claims that 170 miles of range can be added in
  around half an hour, if you use the brand's roadside
  Supercharger network. Charging at home will require
  the installation of a dedicated high-capacity outlet,
  keeping charging times down to a few hours, rather than
  about 1.5 days using a domestic socket."

"However, the Autopilot system performed poorly in our tests.
  It didn't detect  variable speed limits, and when travelling
  on motorways that cross over other roads it often picked up
  the wrong speed limit and strongly reduced speed. Autopilot
  also often failed to assess traffic situations correctly,
  resulting in jerky deceleration and acceleration."

"The difference here is that Tesla is advertising it as
  self-driving technology – something it most definitely isn’t,
  and which would currently be illegal to use in the UK
  if it were. Autonomous technology which allows the car
  to take control of monitoring the driving environment
  is currently not allowed on British roads, and
  responsibility remains with the driver to maintain proper
  control.

" We’ve referred Tesla to the Advertising Standards
  Authority (ASA) regarding the Model 3’s self-driving claims,
  as we feel it could result in improper and dangerous use
  of these assistance systems.

Since those are excerpts, it would be better to read the
entire review - but you'll have to pay for that.

Nonetheless the autopilot's performance and legality are
of concern, as is the desirability of rewiring your house.

"Charging at home will require
 the installation of a dedicated high-capacity outlet"

a 40 amp level 2 charger unit is plenty for many use cases and
installing one is not a complex job. it won't charge up the car in a
couple hours. it'll charge a 3 up ~150 miles overnight, how many people
are driving 150 miles a day every day goddamn.

The summary seems to make it out like you can either charge from a 120
volt outlet over 1.5 days or you have to install a three phase AC-DC
level 3 charger with a cable 4" in diameter to charge the car.

I don't put a lot of stock in reviews by reviewers who don't seem to
know important details of the technology they purport to be reviewing,
or do know them but seem to intentionally construct excluded-middle
propositions about the tech to make it seem cumbersome in a way it
actually isn't.

If you drive 100 miles or less most days in the way most people do who
commute to work, and the cheapo level 2 charger is putting 150 miles in
"the bucket" every night, and you're only draining out 50-100 each day,
then "the bucket" is going to be near full most of the time see?

ain't complex concepts to understand except for journalists I guess.