EAGLE Netlist conversion

Stuart Brorson wrote:
In sci.electronics.cad Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
: Problems/complaints:

: 2) The schematics in the examples are all composed of main pages with
: the transistors and diodes being subpages. There is no obvious (to me
: the new user) way of making the link so the transistors appear on the
: schematic. Examples are presumably meant for new inexperienced users,
: and as such should work flawlessly.

Please help me improve the linkage between these schematics. Is your
point that you can't open the lower-level schematics from the top
level schematic via "Hierarchy -> Down Schematic"? If so, it was a
bug in the examples; I have just fixed it.

If you want, try the fix. Edit your gafrc (living in the RF_Amp
directory), and add the line (on a new line):

(source-library ".")

Then, open MSA-2643.sch, double click on Q1, and add the following
attribute to it:

Attrbute name: source
Attribute value: Q1.sch

Do the analogous thing for Q2. Then you should be able to use
"Hierarchy -> Down Schematic" in the top menu bar to dive into the
models for Q1 & Q2.

Please let us know if this works for you.

Thanks,

Stuart
Click to expand...
Hi Stuart,

Ok, I have figured out what's going on. If you cd to the directory
that the RF_Amp is in, and then invoke gschem, Open page and select
the MSA-2643.sch drawing, everything works the way you all probably
expected it to.

However, if you are in some miscellaneous directory, and invoke gschem,
Open page, and wind your way through the directory structure until
you find the MSA-2643.sch drawing, and open it, then you get a schematic
with blank spots where the transistors should be.

So, what is happening is you only read the gafrc file for the directory
that you are in when gschem is invoked.

What to do? It doesn't seem too unreasonable for a person to be able to
start up the geda tools from any old directory they happen to be in and
browse their way to the design files using open page, and expect the
right thing to happen.

It seems to me that a reasonable solution would be to have gEDA tools
read any appropriate rc files found in the directories where you open
a new, or old page. I am unsure what would be the best solution for
opening a new page in a new empty directory. Perhaps if the directory
is created from within the gEDA tools, the directory should be prefilled
with an rc file from some template directory?

-Chuck
 
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:49:06 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

Strange. The 'red' states are net recipients of federal subsidies.

Does that make them socialists?....And please be more specic....In any event
have a great eveing Paul and I *did * never mean to troll ya!...take care,

I'd say yes. And on a more serious level than the kind of socialism that
the blue states are reputed to support. Red state socialism involves
subsidies and protectionist legislation of industrial and agricultural
production.
Click to expand...
AKA "jobs". As in "work."

Blue state socialism tends to emphasize assistance to
individuals (health care, welfare, etc.).
Click to expand...
AKA "welfare". As in "don't work."

John
 
In sci.electronics.cad Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
: Hi Stuart,

: Ok, I have figured out what's going on. If you cd to the directory
: that the RF_Amp is in, and then invoke gschem, Open page and select
: the MSA-2643.sch drawing, everything works the way you all probably
: expected it to.

: However, if you are in some miscellaneous directory, and invoke gschem,
: Open page, and wind your way through the directory structure until
: you find the MSA-2643.sch drawing, and open it, then you get a schematic
: with blank spots where the transistors should be.

: So, what is happening is you only read the gafrc file for the directory
: that you are in when gschem is invoked.

: What to do? It doesn't seem too unreasonable for a person to be able to
: start up the geda tools from any old directory they happen to be in and
: browse their way to the design files using open page, and expect the
: right thing to happen.

: It seems to me that a reasonable solution would be to have gEDA tools
: read any appropriate rc files found in the directories where you open
: a new, or old page. I am unsure what would be the best solution for
: opening a new page in a new empty directory. Perhaps if the directory
: is created from within the gEDA tools, the directory should be prefilled
: with an rc file from some template directory?

Hi Chuck --

OK, this is a user education issue. Sorry!

Loosely speaking, gEDA has three sets of RC files: One system wide,
one for you as a user, and one living in the local project directory:

* The system one lives in ${PREFIX}/share/gEDA, where ${PREFIX} =
wherever you stuck your gEDA stuff when you installed the dist. This
one holds most of the path info about where symbols live. It is
always read in upon program start-up.

* The user one should live in ${HOME}. You can use this for
customizations you would like to use across all your projects. (Like
remapping the key actions, or screen colors.) Gschem
tries to read it upon program start-up, but only warns you if it can't
find it.

* The project one lives in the project directory where the schematic
files are stored. This one is used for customizations local to that
particular project. (Like storing local symbol files, or other
project-specific stuff.) Gschem tries to read it upon program
start-up, but only warns you if it can't find it.

When gschem opens up, it tries to read all three. However, if you
run gschem on a file living in another directory from the one you are
in, then it doesn't see the project-specific RC file.

In the case of the RF_Amp example, the gafrc file lives in the RF_Amp
project directory. I am not sure that making that project-local RC
file work when reading the .sch file from outside that directory is a
good idea. The vision is that you put project-specific customizations
into there. That means that you run gschem while working out of that
directory.

There is a mechanism for specifying which RC file to load using the -r
flag, but it doesn't seem to follow file paths like "./sym" correctly
(I just checked). I can file a bug report on this.

I agree that the nice thing to do is to have all schematic open
correctly from everywhere. The way to do that is to have gschem
deduce the project directory from the path to the file being opened,
and then open the corresponding RC file. But what if a user then
opened two files in two different directories? Which RC file to open?
Both? What if they conflict?

Therefore, this question needs some further thinking. Meanwhile, it
does raise the question of bullet-proofing the examples for newbies.
I'll think about that.

Stuart
 
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:30:50 +0000, Rick Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:46:53 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

I want to go to Debian, but I am finding it hard to get excited about
ripping my system apart and starting over...If only there was a safe
and easy way to move from RedHat to Debian...

The EDA vendors only support RedHat, so I'm sticking with it, whatever
its faults. And, finally, after all these years, we now actually have
a professional Linux distribution, that's not just put together by
hackers. But I'll tell you what really pi**es me off about it - they
now charge an *annual* subscription for it. I've been buying Windoze
distributions for 20-odd years, and I've never once had to pay an
annual subscription. I bought my current Win2K 4 years ago, and I can
still download updates and security fixes for free. What exactly makes
RedHat think that they can charge year-on-year for that?
Click to expand...
They think they can, because they can. It's pretty much that simple.
People pay them. People want Aunt-Tillie-Ready stuff, with the security
of a Linux kernel, so they pay the Redmond^H^H^H^HHat people to do all of
their configuration for them.

If they'd
just asked me for a one-off $200 then I'd have paid it. I'm running FC2
now, despite having to download the whole thing.
Click to expand...
I paid $40.00 for the 4-disk Slackware set, and I'm quite happy with it,
and it's downloadable for free. Actually, the only reason I actually paid
for it is because I want to support Mr. Volkerding and the whole Slack
mystique. ;-)

You do have to know enough about your computer to be able to manage it,
however. Or be willing to learn.

As far as "The EDA vendors only support RedHat", that could be because
Redmond^H^H^H^HHat is the only distro that _needs_ vendor support.

I'll be installing gEDA from source Real Soon Now, and I'll
give a full report.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
Rick Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:55:47 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:


There is no reason that you have to pay RedHat. The amount you pay is
purely for their support. You can get the entire distribution from a
number of places. One is www.tux.com


Are you sure? The RedHat site gives no hint that you can run the
current RHs without paying. The free distribution is FCx, which is
different.

BTW, www.tux.com sells tuxedos...
Click to expand...
I had meant www.tuxcds.com, but I got it mixed up with www.tux.org,
and ended up someplace in the muddle.

But they don't seem to have RHEE anyway.

I am not sure how redhat could restrict the enterprise edition, being
as it is based on GPL'd code. Anyway, I am heading in the Debian
direction. It is as stable as you want it to be.


-Chuck
 
Stuart Brorson wrote:

Hi Chuck --

OK, this is a user education issue. Sorry!
Click to expand...
I cannot honestly say that I have done a good job working my way
throught the documentation. I only have a little time each day to
play, and then I seem to tend to just jump in...
Loosely speaking, gEDA has three sets of RC files: One system wide,
one for you as a user, and one living in the local project directory:

[snip]
I agree that the nice thing to do is to have all schematic open
correctly from everywhere. The way to do that is to have gschem
deduce the project directory from the path to the file being opened,
and then open the corresponding RC file. But what if a user then
opened two files in two different directories? Which RC file to open?
Both? What if they conflict?
Click to expand...
Spawn a version of gschem for each file, and use the corresponding
project rc file for each incantation?
Therefore, this question needs some further thinking. Meanwhile, it
does raise the question of bullet-proofing the examples for newbies.
I'll think about that.

Stuart
Click to expand...
In any case, I believe the only thing the gEDA suite should take
from the place it was invoked is the home directory root. The
gafrc project file must be correct for the file that is currently
being displayed on screen.

-Chuck
 
Rich Grise wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:30:50 +0000, Rick Thompson wrote:


I paid $40.00 for the 4-disk Slackware set, and I'm quite happy with it,
and it's downloadable for free. Actually, the only reason I actually paid
for it is because I want to support Mr. Volkerding and the whole Slack
mystique. ;-)

You do have to know enough about your computer to be able to manage it,
however. Or be willing to learn.

As far as "The EDA vendors only support RedHat", that could be because
Redmond^H^H^H^HHat is the only distro that _needs_ vendor support.

I'll be installing gEDA from source Real Soon Now, and I'll
give a full report.

Good Luck!
Rich
Click to expand...
All in all, the installation went ok once I ironed out two small problems.
I think you will have fun. The suite looks quite competent.

-Chuck
 
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:41EC1395.6050702@nospam.com...
gwhite wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:

Ross Mac wrote...

That's an interesting statement (soviet national anthem) since the "blue
states" believe in a political philosophy that boarders on socialism????

Totally false, and a gratuitous smear on half the country.


It's sometimes difficult to give someone a pointer on where to start, but
perhaps this is as good as any:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761501657/

There are, without any serious question, socialist roots to much of the
left's
political platform. The American left does not embrace the "hot"
socialism of
the soviets, but certainly it does embrace "cold" socialism. Hiding
socialism
under the guise of the welfare state, hidden taxes, and the regulation of
every
affair imaginable does not make a spade anything other than a spade.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." -- someone

I notice you ignorant jerk offs have no problem with federal economic
subsidies to red state industries which exceed that of the blue states.
And you would be right- that is not socialism- it IS welfare. You *things*
make me sick- try to understand the meaning of rationalization and then
realize you should just shut the hell up.

Geez Fred...realax a bit...but hey...on the original comment...the red
Click to expand...
states are far from socialist....but at least you didn't leave a link to
amazon.com....what was with that??...maybe I missed something.....Ross
 
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:38:04 -0500, "Ross Mac"
<this.is.a.mung@example.invalid> wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world,
those who understand binary and those who don't.
I guess this has become a discussion of the difference between what is
called corporate welfare and individual welfare. IMO socialism is tied much
more toward individual welfare. The intent of corporate welfare is to
improve business which provides jobs and opportunities to the individuals. I
still think it is a bit of a stretch to claim a political party that is pro
business is socialist...but, to each their own opinion....Ross my .02
Click to expand...
It is pure newspeak to refer to a reduction in taxation or regulation
as "corporate welfare." Welfare is when government transfers net funds
to an entity in exchange for nothing. A reduction in taxation is just
that, a somewhat reduced flow of funds from a productive entity to
government.

If my company gets a tax credit for hiring people or investing in
equipment, that's not welfare; that's just slightly less taxation.

John
 
"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote in
message news:eek:7mru05nht8buj0jdeh0netpduk5bvpiv6@4ax.com...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:38:04 -0500, "Ross Mac"
this.is.a.mung@example.invalid> wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world,
those who understand binary and those who don't.
I guess this has become a discussion of the difference between what is
called corporate welfare and individual welfare. IMO socialism is tied
much
more toward individual welfare. The intent of corporate welfare is to
improve business which provides jobs and opportunities to the individuals.
I
still think it is a bit of a stretch to claim a political party that is
pro
business is socialist...but, to each their own opinion....Ross my .02


It is pure newspeak to refer to a reduction in taxation or regulation
as "corporate welfare." Welfare is when government transfers net funds
to an entity in exchange for nothing. A reduction in taxation is just
that, a somewhat reduced flow of funds from a productive entity to
government.

If my company gets a tax credit for hiring people or investing in
equipment, that's not welfare; that's just slightly less taxation.

John





Agreed...it is a misused term I don't agree with but used to make a
Click to expand...
point!....Ross
 
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:50:35 GMT, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:30:50 +0000, Rick Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:46:53 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
I bought my current Win2K 4 years ago, and I can
still download updates and security fixes for free. What exactly makes
RedHat think that they can charge year-on-year for that?

They think they can, because they can. It's pretty much that simple.
People pay them. People want Aunt-Tillie-Ready stuff, with the security
of a Linux kernel, so they pay the Redmond^H^H^H^HHat people to do all of
their configuration for them.
Click to expand...
I've got no problem with configuration. I've got RH7.2 on one machine
and FC2 on another, with various different combinations of libc, gcc,
gdb, gtk, and all the rest of it, without problems. My issue is with
all the half-arsed beta front-end stuff that the hackers put out with
every distro and every release of that distro. Just one example: the
help system on my RH7.2 never worked, despite a clean install, because
of some Nautilus configuration problem that I couldn't find. How can
you *possibly* ship a leading distribution with this level of
incompetence? Bill Gates must be laughing all the way to the bank.

The great thing about the new RedHat is that they might, finally,
bring a level of professionalism that could consign all this nonsense
to history. But, of course, without an annual subscription. Bill Gates
didn't need it, after all.

As far as "The EDA vendors only support RedHat", that could be because
Redmond^H^H^H^HHat is the only distro that _needs_ vendor support.
Click to expand...
Synopsys, Cadence, and Mentor aren't stupid; they turn over nearly $3B
between them. I don't know why they supported it historically, but
RH7.2 was widely accepted. If that's good enough for them, then that's
all the encouragement I need. Linux badly needs some standardisation;
having so many distributions may be great for hackers, but it could
kill Linux for serious work.

BTW, I used Debian for a year and wasn't impressed.

Rick
 
jason wrote:
"gwhite" <gwhite@deadend.com> wrote in message
news:41EC0DE4.52CDD7E2@deadend.com...

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." -- someone

You wanna walk a road in Hell? Go to Iraq.
Click to expand...
Then you agree. Good.
 
John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:49:06 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

Strange. The 'red' states are net recipients of federal subsidies.

Does that make them socialists?....And please be more specic....In any event
have a great eveing Paul and I *did * never mean to troll ya!...take care,

I'd say yes. And on a more serious level than the kind of socialism that
the blue states are reputed to support. Red state socialism involves
subsidies and protectionist legislation of industrial and agricultural
production.

AKA "jobs". As in "work."
Click to expand...
Jobs in inefficient industries. Better to let them die and shift the
work force to businesses that produce economic value.

Blue state socialism tends to emphasize assistance to
individuals (health care, welfare, etc.).

AKA "welfare". As in "don't work."
Click to expand...
Just costs that society will pay one way or another. Businesses aren't
very efficient when it comes to purchasing things like health care
benefits for employees. They would be better off if they didn't have to
concern themselves with such expenses.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities.
-- Walt Kelly, "Pogo"
 
nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) notes in
alt.binaries.schematics.electronic<41dee5c8.1580411121@news.planet.nl>:

: Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
:
: >See...
: >
: >http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/Funnel.gif
:
: I recently visited Auckland (New Zealand). Its now supposed to be
: summer over there. I've had rain, hail, clouds and sunshine in one
: day. According to a taxi driver its not uncommon to have all four
: seasons in one day.

This is a saying that sometimes applies:- However, we have been having
an extraordinarily wintery summer this year. The best summer weather is
usually found in late January and February, despite midsummer's
theoretical December date ...

We live in hope that that applies this year! We've been grateful for a
forecast high that has lasted a good week or so, just now; it's made a
change from the seemingly endless uncertain Spring through Summer!

But forecasters suggest that the remainder of the summer will be cool.
....

"Weak El Nińo conditions are very likely to continue for the next three
months, with below average sea temperatures around New Zealand in
January tending average by March. Stronger than normal west to south
westerly winds are likely for the three month period."

The local paper online weather news sections may give some impression.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/tools/weather/national.cfm
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=104

Regards,

Ross D Matheson
Auckland, NZ.
 
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:03:27 -0800, John Larkin
<jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:16:41 -0600, "jason" <jpop@carrollsweb.com
wrote:


Any capitalist society needs corporate welfare - otherwise the economy would
be too unstable.

It does not. All it needs is a vigorous free market and
less-then-crushing levels of taxation. Competition will take care of
the rest.

John
Click to expand...
John, Don't waste your breath. Leftists just can not cope with the
concept that LESS taxes is a GOOD thing. Leftists throw up this
"corporate welfare" BS to confuse the masses... the masses who have NO
CLUE what it really is to PAY massive taxes... the masses who have NO
CLUE that it is THEY who are on welfare.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson wrote:

John, Don't waste your breath. Leftists just can not cope with the
concept that LESS taxes is a GOOD thing. Leftists throw up this
"corporate welfare" BS to confuse the masses... the masses who have NO
CLUE what it really is to PAY massive taxes... the masses who have NO
CLUE that it is THEY who are on welfare.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
It is really quite simple: If I pay more taxes, so you can pay less,
I am paying your way, and you are on welfare.

-Chuck
 
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:28:00 -0500, Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

John, Don't waste your breath. Leftists just can not cope with the
concept that LESS taxes is a GOOD thing. Leftists throw up this
"corporate welfare" BS to confuse the masses... the masses who have NO
CLUE what it really is to PAY massive taxes... the masses who have NO
CLUE that it is THEY who are on welfare.

...Jim Thompson

It is really quite simple: If I pay more taxes, so you can pay less,
I am paying your way, and you are on welfare.

-Chuck
Click to expand...
Even simpler: if I pay taxes, and you don't, and we both receive
benefits, you are on welfare.

John
 
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:28:00 -0500, Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

John, Don't waste your breath. Leftists just can not cope with the
concept that LESS taxes is a GOOD thing. Leftists throw up this
"corporate welfare" BS to confuse the masses... the masses who have NO
CLUE what it really is to PAY massive taxes... the masses who have NO
CLUE that it is THEY who are on welfare.

...Jim Thompson

It is really quite simple: If I pay more taxes, so you can pay less,
I am paying your way, and you are on welfare.

-Chuck
Click to expand...
Yup. Just what I said. I'd just like to pay LESS of your way.

I pray for tax reform... but I doubt that it will ever happen... the
leftists won't allow anything that approaches fair taxation.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:43:07 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:28:00 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

John, Don't waste your breath. Leftists just can not cope with the
concept that LESS taxes is a GOOD thing. Leftists throw up this
"corporate welfare" BS to confuse the masses... the masses who have NO
CLUE what it really is to PAY massive taxes... the masses who have NO
CLUE that it is THEY who are on welfare.

...Jim Thompson

It is really quite simple: If I pay more taxes, so you can pay less,
I am paying your way, and you are on welfare.

-Chuck

Yup. Just what I said. I'd just like to pay LESS of your way.

I pray for tax reform... but I doubt that it will ever happen... the
leftists won't allow anything that approaches fair taxation.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

The only rational taxation is a universal sales tax, with exemptions
for basics. That would reduce the huge disadvantage that domestic
manufacturers/employers face.

Income tax is a job-destroying machine.

John
 
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