EAGLE Netlist conversion

[Terry Pinnell]

"Clarence" <no@No.com> wrote:

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:1285o09qi313ndsoc47sgvr4qfuj88uafl@4ax.com...
"Helmut Sennewald" <helmutsennewald@t-online.de> wrote:


Hello Terry,
you don't need another simulator, instead you need a correct
circuit diagram. Your circuit will never work as intended.

Let's look for example to Q4 and Q3 where the (base-)current flows.
It flows from
+9V -> Emitter Q4 -> Base Q3 -> Emitter Q3
regardless you drive any base current by Q1.
This is a short from +9V to ground by 2 Vbe-diodes.

From where do you have this wrong circuit diagram?

Best Regards,
Helmut

Thanks Helmut, but I realise the circuit is fatally flawed! I still
wanted to be able to see exactly what happens on applying power to it,
for each of the 4 possible input conditions.

The circuit is at
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams.com/motorimages/motorckt4.shtml

and the original thread discussing it is here:
Subject: Motor Control Circuit Problem
Date: 28 Oct 2004 15:48:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1099003721.067016.22050@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com


You may get some operation by inserting a low value resistor in each emitter
lead. That would give a indication without any calculation being infinite.

Thanks, yes, that was Robert's suggestion too, in the main s.e.d

thread. Will try it and report back.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

"Clarence" <no@No.com> wrote:


"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:1285o09qi313ndsoc47sgvr4qfuj88uafl@4ax.com...
"Helmut Sennewald" <helmutsennewald@t-online.de> wrote:


Hello Terry,
you don't need another simulator, instead you need a correct
circuit diagram. Your circuit will never work as intended.

Let's look for example to Q4 and Q3 where the (base-)current flows.
It flows from
+9V -> Emitter Q4 -> Base Q3 -> Emitter Q3
regardless you drive any base current by Q1.
This is a short from +9V to ground by 2 Vbe-diodes.

From where do you have this wrong circuit diagram?

Best Regards,
Helmut

Thanks Helmut, but I realise the circuit is fatally flawed! I still
wanted to be able to see exactly what happens on applying power to it,
for each of the 4 possible input conditions.

The circuit is at
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams.com/motorimages/motorckt4.shtml

and the original thread discussing it is here:
Subject: Motor Control Circuit Problem
Date: 28 Oct 2004 15:48:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1099003721.067016.22050@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com


You may get some operation by inserting a low value resistor in each emitter
lead. That would give a indication without any calculation being infinite.

Thanks, yes, that was Robert's suggestion too, in the main s.e.d
thread. Will try it and report back.

Now done so, and it worked fine. (With 1 ohm base resistor for Q4 and
Q6, current with my simplistic models was around 670 A.)

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:57:25 -0000, "john jardine"
<john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:aevao0l2kqceha1itfbcjp3jhgvdaei17k@4ax.com...
Anyone know the history of Increment/Decrement Control loops?

There's a paragraph on page 56 of the October "Microwaves and RF"
magazine about AGCing a VCO using an up/down counter and D-A in an
increment/decrement control... touting it as if it's the next best
thing to sliced bread.

But I hardly think it's novel... I was setting the timing of
automobile ignition systems in 1968, but used a squirt of charge
into/out-of a capacitor to increment/decrement.

The paragraph references an IEEE article in October's "IEEE
Transactions on Instrumentation and Measurement", which I can't access
since I object to $35/month for the privilege (as I noted today as I
renewed my memberships).

Maybe someone who subscribes to that service can look it up?

Thanks!

...Jim Thompson
[snip]

Sounds pretty much like the old 'huff-and-puff' VFO stabiliser the radio
hams used.
regards
john

That's what I thought, too.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:18:01 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Anyone know the history of Increment/Decrement Control loops?

There's a paragraph on page 56 of the October "Microwaves and RF"
magazine about AGCing a VCO using an up/down counter and D-A in an
increment/decrement control... touting it as if it's the next best
thing to sliced bread.

But I hardly think it's novel... I was setting the timing of
automobile ignition systems in 1968, but used a squirt of charge
into/out-of a capacitor to increment/decrement.

The paragraph references an IEEE article in October's "IEEE
Transactions on Instrumentation and Measurement", which I can't access
since I object to $35/month for the privilege (as I noted today as I
renewed my memberships).

Maybe someone who subscribes to that service can look it up?

Thanks!

...Jim Thompson

Try looking for "single-speed floating control". I think it's a really
old and not-so-great control strategy.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Max Hauser]

"Jim Thompson" in news:aevao0l2kqceha1itfbcjp3jhgvdaei17k@4ax.com...

Anyone know the history of Increment/Decrement Control loops?

... AGCing a VCO using an up/down counter and D-A in an
increment/decrement control...

I haven't seen the original, but from the description here, it sounds like a
good old digital integrator. In case anyone who is reading this has not run
into or thought about it, a digital up-down counter is precisely a DSP
integrator for a one-bit input ("+- 1"). (At times in the past we made very
good use of that property, and other properties of one-bit arithmetic, in
digital filters for oversampling data converters.) And an integrator is the
heart of many control loops.

In the early days of digital forays into the system-simulation world
pioneered by analog computers (more on those in classic books by Jackson,
and by Korn and Korn), people built special-purpose digital integrators, and
then made loops out of them that would solve differential equations over
time, just like electronic analog computers did. They were called Digital
Differential Analyzers (DDAs). A single digital integrator in an AGC
control loop would be a grandchild of those.

-- Max

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:27:00 GMT, Robert Monsen
<rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
Seeing occasionally some strange memory error messages upon close of
Paint Shop Pro or Agent.

Looking for recommendations for software to test RAM memory in my PCs.

Thanks!

...Jim Thompson

There is a package from microsoft. You write it onto a floppy or CD, and
when it boots, it continually tests. Search for Memory Test on the
microsoft site.

Thanks, Robert, It works great! No RAM problems, it appears to be an
IE issue... as if that's a surprise.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 11:09:22 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:37:57 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

I thought it worked rather well. My scheme looked at dwell, decided
if it was early or late and moved a threshold accordingly... this
happened _after_ firing so was not subject to noise from the spark.

Just like having an elf sitting there turning a knob just a small
amount after each firing ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I think it generally works better if the elf moves the knob more for
large differences and less for small differences.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

If you choose a fixed increment that is small enough it closes at
"left-right-left-right-left......" ;-)

Driving a big-assed T-bird (400+CID) in 1968, up and down 101 (near
Sunnyvale) at over 100MPH, I was never able to cause the ignition to
stumble... scared the hell out of my boss, though ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Chuck Harris]

Jim Thompson wrote:

Thanks, Robert, It works great! No RAM problems, it appears to be an
IE issue... as if that's a surprise.

...Jim Thompson

I have never found a RAM test program that could find anything but
the most catastrophic failures in RAM. I have had machines
that exhibited flakey problems that looked like probable memory
problems. The ram test programs showed everything to be ok. But
it was only through swapping out memory sticks that the problem
finally went away.

My guess is that sometimes the ram tester programs are testing the
wrong thing. For instance, suppose that the problem is related
to a timing problem that only comes into play when DMA is accessing
ram. A ram test that only tests accesses by the CPU won't find any
problem. Or, suppose the problem is related to an interleaving of
CPU, cache and DMA accesses?

I always take "good" diagnostic results with a grain of salt.

-Chuck Harris

 

[Tom Seim]

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message news:<aevao0l2kqceha1itfbcjp3jhgvdaei17k@4ax.com>...

Anyone know the history of Increment/Decrement Control loops?

There's a paragraph on page 56 of the October "Microwaves and RF"
magazine about AGCing a VCO using an up/down counter and D-A in an
increment/decrement control... touting it as if it's the next best
thing to sliced bread.

But I hardly think it's novel... I was setting the timing of
automobile ignition systems in 1968, but used a squirt of charge
into/out-of a capacitor to increment/decrement.

The paragraph references an IEEE article in October's "IEEE
Transactions on Instrumentation and Measurement", which I can't access
since I object to $35/month for the privilege (as I noted today as I
renewed my memberships).

Maybe someone who subscribes to that service can look it up?

Thanks!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I will send you a copy if that is your real email address.

 

[Tom Seim]

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message news:<ubrco0lbeses3mm3qqqa3gqaq7g8jvnlc6@4ax.com>...

My oldest daughter is a candidate (and most likely winner) for
Chairman of the Republican Party in Yuma County, Arizona ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

CONGRADULATIONS!

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Dennis M. O'Connor" <dmoc@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:1099376818.334316@nnrp2.phx1.gblx.net...

"hamilton" <hamilton@deminsional.com> wrote...
Here is truth:
Conservatives want to control your life, but will let you keep your
money.
Liberals want to control your money, but will let you keep your
life.

What bullshit. Kerry is advocating a draft ("mandatory service")
for all young adults. No "Conservative" is doing that.

Umm, the draft's already mandatory. It's part of the law.

I walk by the handout racks at the college where I work, and I see reams
of gov't supplied flyers titled "It's What A Man's Got To Do".
In other words, when you (males) turn 18, you have to register for the
DRAFT.

DUH.

And show me someone from either side that is willing to let
competent adults make their own decisions about what they
eat, drink, breath, smoke or inject into themselves !

To quote your own words, "> What bullshit."

--
Dennis M. O'Connor dmoc@primenet.com

 

[Product developer]

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message news:<ubrco0lbeses3mm3qqqa3gqaq7g8jvnlc6@4ax.com>...

My oldest daughter is a candidate (and most likely winner) for
Chairman of the Republican Party in Yuma County, Arizona ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Awesome!

We need all the help we can get. Did she have to take any special
courses in how to fight the new religion called liberalism?

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 02:08:37 -0700, Marc 182
<marc182spamless@globalcrossing.net> wrote:

In article <ubrco0lbeses3mm3qqqa3gqaq7g8jvnlc6@4ax.com>,
thegreatone@example.com says...
My oldest daughter is a candidate (and most likely winner) for
Chairman of the Republican Party in Yuma County, Arizona ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Congrats. I'm a Dem who grew up in Yuma. It's a flexable county, Dems
and Repubs have done well there now and again. I hope that she herself
remains flexable as well and doesn't feel obligated to tow the party
line.

Marc

Not likely... her husband is Libertarian.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 1 Nov 2004 20:55:35 -0800, soar2morrow@yahoo.com (Tom Seim) wrote:

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message news:<aevao0l2kqceha1itfbcjp3jhgvdaei17k@4ax.com>...
Anyone know the history of Increment/Decrement Control loops?

There's a paragraph on page 56 of the October "Microwaves and RF"
magazine about AGCing a VCO using an up/down counter and D-A in an
increment/decrement control... touting it as if it's the next best
thing to sliced bread.

But I hardly think it's novel... I was setting the timing of
automobile ignition systems in 1968, but used a squirt of charge
into/out-of a capacitor to increment/decrement.

The paragraph references an IEEE article in October's "IEEE
Transactions on Instrumentation and Measurement", which I can't access
since I object to $35/month for the privilege (as I noted today as I
renewed my memberships).

Maybe someone who subscribes to that service can look it up?

Thanks!



I will send you a copy if that is your real email address.

I have already been sent a copy, Thanks! (The header E-mail address
is false... read the SIG to obtain a valid E-mail address.)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:27:50 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

Paul Burridge wrote:


I'm sure she'll only tow the Nazi line her dear old dad has
indoctrinated her into.

Paul, You are one sick puppy.

All of his daughters are government employees in one form or another- I
wonder if Thompson told them that government employment is the "ultimate
welfare"?

Daughter #1 (Republican activist) is employed by United Way, a charity

Daughter #2 is employed by the City of Phoenix as a (degreed) CHEMIST
to assure water quality

Neither is "government employment" in the sense that you imply
"bureaucrat"

Fred, You remain the ultimate village idiot ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:56:23 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 10:10:10 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

My oldest daughter is a candidate (and most likely winner) for
Chairman of the Republican Party in Yuma County, Arizona ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Congratulations! P.S. Did you get the e-mail I sent?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Yes. But haven't had time to look into it. Business is BOOMING!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:27:50 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com
wrote:



Paul Burridge wrote:


I'm sure she'll only tow the Nazi line her dear old dad has
indoctrinated her into.


Paul, You are one sick puppy.


All of his daughters are government employees in one form or another- I
wonder if Thompson told them that government employment is the "ultimate
welfare"?


Daughter #1 (Republican activist) is employed by United Way, a charity

So did she change jobs recently?

Daughter #2 is employed by the City of Phoenix as a (degreed) CHEMIST
to assure water quality

The City of Phoenix is not government? She is a government employee and
is therefore immersed in government rules and regulations.

Neither is "government employment" in the sense that you imply
"bureaucrat"

Well- of course- these are /your/ daughters so they're different.

Fred, You remain the ultimate village idiot ;-)

It's all relative. Phoenix community leaders would be make good village
idiots in other locales.

 

[E. Rosten]

Chuck Harris wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:



Thanks, Robert, It works great! No RAM problems, it appears to be an
IE issue... as if that's a surprise.

...Jim Thompson


I have never found a RAM test program that could find anything but
the most catastrophic failures in RAM. I have had machines
that exhibited flakey problems that looked like probable memory
problems. The ram test programs showed everything to be ok. But
it was only through swapping out memory sticks that the problem
finally went away.

I will second this. I ahve had similar problems: a flakey machine on
which memtest86+ failed to show up any problems. Eventually, ond day it
flaked out extra early and the BIOS told me that there was no memory
plugged in (indicating that it was very likely the memory at fault).
Since swapping the DIMMS I haven't had a single crash (down from maybe 1
or more a week at the worst). I think it was a mechanical thing, since
the problem usually cleared up when I opened the case (which is normally
quite stiff). Maybe a memory tester would show up a problem if I gave
the comupter a kick with the bad DIMMS in.

-Ed

--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (er258)(@)(eng.cam)(.ac.uk)

/d{def}def/f{/Times findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5/m
{moveto}d -1 r 230 350 m 0 1 179{1 index show 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}
for /s 15 d f pop 240 420 m 0 1 3 { 4 2 1 r sub -1 r show } for showpage

 

[Chuck Harris]

Paul Burridge wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:27:50 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com
wrote:


All of his daughters are government employees in one form or another- I
wonder if Thompson told them that government employment is the "ultimate
welfare"?


LOL! It's true, though. All those government/civil service workers
contribute nothing to a country's GDP. They're just deadwood; a drain
on those who do the real work. They make up rules and ensnare the
wealth-makers with red tape and bureaucracy and have the audacity to
pick your pockets for their wages in return! A bum on the street
asking for a dime deserves more respect.

Gee Paul, I sure am glad to see that your depth of thinking carries
over into other areas besides just electronics.

Sheesh!

-Chuck

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:27:39 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:13:02 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:02:48 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:08:37 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:56:23 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 10:10:10 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

My oldest daughter is a candidate (and most likely winner) for
Chairman of the Republican Party in Yuma County, Arizona ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Congratulations! P.S. Did you get the e-mail I sent?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Yes. But haven't had time to look into it. Business is BOOMING!

...Jim Thompson

Okay, no rush. I just wanted to make sure that it didn't get filtered
out. When I get the parts and have a chance to evaluate them (probably
a few weeks), I'll send an update.



Are you guys doing something fun and not telling me about it?

John

Yes ;-)

...Jim Thompson

You betcha. ;-)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com