EAGLE Netlist conversion

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 07:18:36 GMT, "Robert" <Robert@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:JIesh.17306$Gw4.8802@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]
Maybe the serial port is a fake ?


No

It's done some serial com already.

--
Regards, Joerg

Do you have "Fast User Switching" turned on?

MS Help mentions that Serial Devices can be used for people with handicaps
and hooked up to Serial Ports but only with turning off that option in
WindowsXP.

Search Help on "SerialKey device"

Robert

There you go, Joerg. Right under both our noses. Thanks, Robert!
Stored away for later use.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Joseph Power]

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:38:35 GMT in comp.arch.embedded, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

(These are probably way beneath you, but sometimes we overlook the simplest
things.)

Have you checked the BIOS settings to be sure COM1: is enabled?

Is there any chance that you could need a 9-pin to 9-pin null modem?

I also vaguely recall from my old DOS days that there were at least 2 alternate
pinouts for the 9-pin port. You should ask Logitech what pinout they used.

hope that helps

Joe

 

[Robert Latest]

["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.design.]
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 22:17:46 GMT,
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote
in Msg. <esbsh.2599$O02.2189@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>

Then my mouse would work. However, a slight inconvenience would be that
the CAD program the mouse is supposed to be used with would quit working ...

EAGLE works fine under Linux. And if all you want to do is draw schematics
while on the road you can even temporarily use the free edition, and then
do the layout on your paid-for Windows version.

robert

 

[Joerg]

Robert wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:JIesh.17306$Gw4.8802@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...

Jim Thompson wrote:


[snip]


Isn't there a simple adapter to convert between serial and PS/2?

AND: Haven't you already wasted $50 of your time trying to be
cheap-ass, when a new track-ball can be had for $49 ?

I thought you would have learned that time is money by now ;-)


I do. But there comes a time when I need a little breather from staring
at a CAD screen or figuring out how to cram umpteen analog functions
into the space of about two quarters. Also, it's not about money, I
like this old mouse and I know it won't give cramps like most others.

BTW, Logitech says on their site that their driver (MouseWare) will not
support serial mice under 2k and XP. Great. But they did say that 2k
and XP have native drivers for that. Question is, who knows where?


Try turning off the machine. Plug in track-ball. Boot up. See if
pointer moves. I'd bet that it will.


Tried that on both machines. No trabajo :-(


Maybe the serial port is a fake ?


No

It's done some serial com already.

--
Regards, Joerg


Do you have "Fast User Switching" turned on?

Full confession: I don't even know what that is.

MS Help mentions that Serial Devices can be used for people with handicaps
and hooked up to Serial Ports but only with turning off that option in
WindowsXP.

Search Help on "SerialKey device"

Thanks, Robert, will try later today. First I have to repair our pool
sweep. Again. Its freaking expensive hose became brittle (!) and broke.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Genome wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:vTash.2588$O02.10@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want to
miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my first
car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly also
came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything "new" was
connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP, the other
NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but they are from
the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that you use Windex
on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com


Cock

You use Eagle and I know that Eagle has some reverse Polish notation about
the way it forces you to lay out tracks so there is a good chance that the
rest of it is cock as well so I 100% know that since all of Eagle is fucking
broken you only want to use your trackball because you have been forced to
use Eagle because you bought it and have learned how to do it with your
trackball and now there is no way you are going to admit to the fact it is
cock.

You can use Eagle via keys, just like OrCad. But it's no fun that way
for larger designs. And I don't do layouts, that's done by someone who
is an expert in that field (which I am not).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Joseph Power wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:38:35 GMT in comp.arch.embedded, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:


Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?


(These are probably way beneath you, but sometimes we overlook the simplest
things.)

Have you checked the BIOS settings to be sure COM1: is enabled?

It is. Has worked with other things, piping data out of the logic
analyzer etc.

Is there any chance that you could need a 9-pin to 9-pin null modem?

Hmm, could be.

I also vaguely recall from my old DOS days that there were at least 2 alternate
pinouts for the 9-pin port. You should ask Logitech what pinout they used.

Well, it works on the big PC which supposedly should have the same
pinout on its ports. But that one runs NT4.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

Joerg skrev:

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

any old serial mouse should be recognized by XP, I believe most
serial mouses and such "steal" their power from the serial port, it may
not
be enough with a low power serial port driver in a laptop


-Lasse

 

[Eeyore]

Joerg wrote:

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

Could you fit a PS/2 connector on the existing lead ?

Or how about this instead ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Trackball-PS-2-Serial_W0QQitemZ230080758747QQihZ013QQcategoryZ116301QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Graham

 

[Joerg]

langwadt@ieee.org wrote:

Joerg skrev:

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com



any old serial mouse should be recognized by XP, I believe most
serial mouses and such "steal" their power from the serial port, it may
not
be enough with a low power serial port driver in a laptop

Ah, that could be a clue. Might be time to get the screwdriver and
meter. Or buy a new trackball and try to get used to that but the
"modern" ones seem to be designed for smaller hands. Or maybe I should
quit chopping my own firewood so my hands fit the new trackballs...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Eeyore wrote:

Joerg wrote:


Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?


Could you fit a PS/2 connector on the existing lead ?

Yes but the new laptop does not have a PS/2 port anymore :-(

Or how about this instead ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Trackball-PS-2-Serial_W0QQitemZ230080758747QQihZ013QQcategoryZ116301QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Too small. What I like about my old trackball is that I can roll the
ball and keep the other fingers stretched out. It's much bigger and more
healthy for the joints.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

jasen wrote:

On 2007-01-18, Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:



Well, got to live with whatever the router allows plus there is another
HW firewall. But WEP would already require a lot of effort to hack and
we live in a pretty stretched out area. The house is quite "attenuating"
as it is and someone would have to be in the yard to mess with things.
Also, they would have to get it done in under 10 seconds or need a fresh
set of underwear because there is a Shepherd and a Rottweiler who both
disapprove of such activities.


A decent parabolic reflector antenna will get them 14 dB gain and they
can be 7dB further away.

Then I put up the old redneck sign: "Our Rottweiler can make it across
7dB in four seconds. Can you?"

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Robert]

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:CRush.17372$Gw4.9435@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...

Eeyore wrote:


Joerg wrote:


Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?


Could you fit a PS/2 connector on the existing lead ?


Yes but the new laptop does not have a PS/2 port anymore :-(


Or how about this instead ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Trackball-PS-2-Serial_W0QQitemZ230080758747QQihZ013QQcategoryZ116301QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Too small. What I like about my old trackball is that I can roll the ball
and keep the other fingers stretched out. It's much bigger and more
healthy for the joints.

--
Regards, Joerg

Have you seen the other large Trackballs?

Kensington makes quite a few.

Here are two of the large ones:
http://us.kensington.com/html/1436.html

And then an even larger one with a 3 inch ball at:
http://www.askergoworks.com/shopexd.asp?id=936

Can't find a website for that one directly but there seems to be a lot of
distributors.

Robert

 

[Gene S. Berkowitz]

In article <duesh.62719$qO4.23011@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...

Jim Thompson wrote:

Try turning off the machine. Plug in track-ball. Boot up. See if
pointer moves. I'd bet that it will.


Tried that on both machines. No trabajo :-(

Do you have a Palm device? The Hotsync manager is notorious for
grabbing the com port and not letting go...

--Gene

 

[jasen]

On 2007-01-19, Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

most likely is still com1:

open com1 at 1200 bps 8 data bits, no parity, one stop bit in hyperterm or
better and type move it round it should make symbols on the screen -
this proves it's working....

What you need is a serial mouse driver for that version of windows that
matches your trackball.

It might be easier to replace the chip and cable with ones that do PS/2
instead of serial. or switch to linux which supports a greater range of
mice.

Bye.
Jasen

 

[Joerg]

Gene S. Berkowitz wrote:

In article <duesh.62719$qO4.23011@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...

Jim Thompson wrote:


Try turning off the machine. Plug in track-ball. Boot up. See if
pointer moves. I'd bet that it will.


Tried that on both machines. No trabajo :-(


Do you have a Palm device? The Hotsync manager is notorious for
grabbing the com port and not letting go...

Nope. Haven't gotten this modern yet ;-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Jack Peacock]

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:vTash.2588$O02.10@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector.
Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly also
came with a RS232 serial port.
Not all RS-232 ports are created equal. If the trackball only has a 9 pin

serial, it likely is powered by drawing current from the serial port. This
was a common practice, but had problems. On a desktop, especially older
ones, the RS-232 was powered from the PC's +/-12Vdc supply, plenty of
current from the drivers. On newer boxes, in particular laptops, the serial
port may only be 5 or 6 volts and practically no current from the charge
pumps in the drivers. Your trackball may not have any power.
Jack Peacock

 

[jasen]

On 2007-01-20, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:18:41 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:


Isn't there a simple adapter to convert between serial and PS/2?

no, the protocol is different as are the voltages.

some mice were designed to operate from either a serial port or ps/2
and shipped with an adaptor that merely changed the shape of the plug.

it's possible that this trackball predates all that.

AND: Haven't you already wasted $50 of your time trying to be
cheap-ass, when a new track-ball can be had for $49 ?

I thought you would have learned that time is money by now ;-)

well yeah, for that pricew he can almost certainly get a better
trackball than the one he's got.

Bye.
Jasen

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:49:35 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

jasen wrote:

On 2007-01-18, Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:



Well, got to live with whatever the router allows plus there is another
HW firewall. But WEP would already require a lot of effort to hack and
we live in a pretty stretched out area. The house is quite "attenuating"
as it is and someone would have to be in the yard to mess with things.
Also, they would have to get it done in under 10 seconds or need a fresh
set of underwear because there is a Shepherd and a Rottweiler who both
disapprove of such activities.


A decent parabolic reflector antenna will get them 14 dB gain and they
can be 7dB further away.


Then I put up the old redneck sign: "Our Rottweiler can make it across
7dB in four seconds. Can you?"

Mine is "Trespassers Will Be Violated" ;-)

I also just added a little placard above the doorbell that seems to
have stopped solicitors dead in their tracks...

"Solicitors Must Have Phoenix Solicitation Permit Visible Before
Ringing Doorbell"

"Otherwise You Are Subject to Citizen's Arrest"

From my office with a view of the sidewalk, I see them approach, then
walk away without ringing the doorbell ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Joerg]

Robert wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:CRush.17372$Gw4.9435@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...

Eeyore wrote:


Joerg wrote:



Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?


Could you fit a PS/2 connector on the existing lead ?


Yes but the new laptop does not have a PS/2 port anymore :-(



Or how about this instead ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Trackball-PS-2-Serial_W0QQitemZ230080758747QQihZ013QQcategoryZ116301QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Too small. What I like about my old trackball is that I can roll the ball
and keep the other fingers stretched out. It's much bigger and more
healthy for the joints.

--
Regards, Joerg


Have you seen the other large Trackballs?

Kensington makes quite a few.

Here are two of the large ones:
http://us.kensington.com/html/1436.html

These are good example of what they do wrong these days IMHO: The
buttons are to the sides and much too close to the ball.

And then an even larger one with a 3 inch ball at:
http://www.askergoworks.com/shopexd.asp?id=936

A little better but still, you'd almost have to operate the left button
with the thumb.

The old Logitech is different from all of these. You can roll the ball
with the 2nd digit of your stretched out thumb and click the three
buttons with you stretched out fingers. No finger bending, cramping,
whatsoever. I can do that all day long and never feel any ever so slight
pain or wear. With "modern" mice it gets to the point where the thumb
joint crackles audibly, not good.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[jasen]

On 2007-01-20, Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

I do. But there comes a time when I need a little breather from staring
at a CAD screen or figuring out how to cram umpteen analog functions
into the space of about two quarters. Also, it's not about money, I like
this old mouse and I know it won't give cramps like most others.

BTW, Logitech says on their site that their driver (MouseWare) will not
support serial mice under 2k and XP. Great. But they did say that 2k and
XP have native drivers for that. Question is, who knows where?

Should be under add new hardware. generic serial mouse or similar.

Bye.
Jasen