EAGLE Netlist conversion

[Joel Kolstad]

"RST Engineering (jw)" <jim@rstengineering.com> wrote in message
news_jbh.33$zU4.63551@news.sisna.com...

Having started off life with the 1.2 version of EasyPC for DOS, waded
through Orcad, and wound up as a beta tester for Circuitmaker/Traxmaker 2K,
the problem with Eagle is that it is completely counterintuitive.

I've read this several times now, and whenever I do it often takes me back to
the early '90s when I was using ProBoard/ProNet on an Amiga 3000 to layout
PCBs... it was another classic example of completely throwing away the "theme"
of the GUI within the OS and inventing their own from scratch!

Anyone else here ever use that package?

I remember calling up for tech support one and the guy yelled at me because I
had taken advantage of their "beta tester" discount -- which wasn't much,
maybe 20% off the regular price -- but then not actually had a board to do
right then and therefore was unable to provide them feedback as to what worked
and what didn't. Sheesh.

I also remember how it wasn't even smart enough to "rubber band" wires or nets
if you moved components around (and this was during the ORCAD SDT 386 days,
which certainly *could*). Aieee...

 

[Stuart Brorson]

In sci.electronics.cad Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
: On a sunny day (29 Nov 2006 12:57:11 -0500) it happened DJ Delorie
:>Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> writes:
:>> I have looked (downloaded geda whatever that package years(!) ago, and it
:>> needed so many other packages, and with all that it still did not work,
:>> so better use something that works.
:>
:>Did you use the cvs download, or the installer CD? The installer CD
:>has everything you need on one disk, and builds/installs it all for
:>you.

: I tried it from source.
: As I stated some years ago.

Well, let's see. First you tried it out "some years ago". It didn't
meet your needs at the time, so you now dismiss it out of hand.

As for me, I tried driving a car "some years ago". I got my hands on
something called a "Model T". It was hard to start, didn't go fast
enough, and didn't meet my needs. Therefore, I have stuck to walking
ever since then because cars don't meet my needs.

: I just checked out that site again, and I see now there is an installer CD.

Oh! You mean that the project has evolved over the last few years!?
You don't say.....

: The reason for 'from source' is that this system I have looks like debian,
: but is totally modified, although many packages are there, a debian
: install would perhaps not find these, and mess up the system installing in
: other locations perhaps.

Ummm, there are several installation methods listed on this page:

http://geda.seul.org/download.html

including Debian .debs, Fedora RPMs, and the install CD.

: So I am scared of installer CD too.

That's fine. That's why there are multiple install options. Chose
the one you are most comfortable with.

: WTF is wrong with a tgz.

Ummm, the there are all source files in tgz format available on this
page (linked on the main download page):

http://geda.seul.org/sources.html

: That said, I am downloading the 129MB ISO image and will check out what is
: on it.
: Probably will not work ;-)

Let us know if it doesn't. If it fails, please report the distro you
are using along with including the Install.log file with your report.
If you just e-mail the developers a note saying "I tried your
installer and it failed. Why?" they will treat you like a two month
old sandwich found in the back of the fridge.

Have fun!

Stuart

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (29 Nov 2006 14:00:08 -0500) it happened DJ Delorie
<dj@delorie.com> wrote in <xn1wnm84ef.fsf@delorie.com>:

Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> writes:
I tried it from source. As I stated some years ago.

Ok, a lot has changed in the last few years.

WTF is wrong with a tgz.

The installer CD has all the tgzs you need, plus a script to build
what you're missing and install it - all in a separate directory, so
it wouldn't mess up your system.

So you can just build the tgz off the CD if that's what you want.

Probably will not work ;-)

If not, we want to know. Ok, Stuart wants to know ;-)

OK, here you have it, downloaded geda-install-20060907.iso
Mounted it in loop

mount -t iso9660 -o ro,loop=/dev/loop0 geda-install-20060907.iso /mnt/loop
Made a directory as root:

mkdir /root/compile/geda
cd /root/compile/geda
grml: ~/compile/geda # /mnt/loop/installer --log
print: About to call gtk.main

/mnt/loop/installer --log 4.73s user 1.84s system 33% cpu 19.509 total

Here is your firts mistajke, i taskes me for root password, and I AM already root.
And what guarantee do I have it is not send to you (this is a server remember), security risk.
Anyways it tells me it wil linstall 'gd' and the crashes, with nothing of use in the log.
grml: ~/compile/geda # cat Install.log
This is the log window which will display the
spew generated by the installation process



gEDA Installer -- version 20060907,
Copyright (C) 2004 -- 2006 Stuart D. Brorson.

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
of the License, or (at your option) any later version.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
GNU General Public License for more details:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.


Checking for various required programs . . .

which gcc
/usr/bin/gcc

which make
/usr/bin/make

which gtk-config
gtk-config not found
gtk-config is missing on this machine.
We'll tell the user about that in a minute.

which pkg-config
/usr/bin/pkg-config
pkg-config version 0.20 found.
pkg-config version found on this system is good. Great!

find /usr/include /usr/local/include -name 'readline.h' -print | grep 'include/readline/readline.h'
/usr/include/readline/readline.h
readline.h found on this system. Great!

which gettext
/usr/bin/gettext

which autopoint
/usr/bin/autopoint
A complete gettext installation found on this system. Great!

which gdlib-config
gdlib-config not found
We need to install gdlib-config on this machine. We'll do that in a minute.

which guile
guile not found
We need to install guile on this machine. We'll do that in a minute.

which wx-config
wx-config not found
We need to install wx-config on this machine. We'll do that in a minute.

which wish
/usr/bin/wish
tclsh version 8.4 found.
tclsh version found on this system is good. Great!


Preparing to install gd libraries. . . .

Now start process of building and installing gd.

I need root in order to execute this command.


--- Starting expect session ---
Sending su
Timeout waiting for password prompt
--------------------------------------------------
End of log. CRASHED here


Maybe you now get why you should release a stail linked version......
Anyways it did not get very far now did it?
I stop here (no more tests).

umount /dev/loop

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:07:17 -0000) it happened Stuart Brorson
<sdb@cloud9.net> wrote in <12mrq3lbbjkprc6@corp.supernews.com>:

: That said, I am downloading the 129MB ISO image and will check out what is

: on it.
: Probably will not work ;-)

Let us know if it doesn't. If it fails, please report the distro you
are using along with including the Install.log file with your report.
If you just e-mail the developers a note saying "I tried your
installer and it failed. Why?" they will treat you like a two month
old sandwich found in the back of the fridge.

Have fun!

Stuart

See my other posting how it failed and your no clue about security.

 

[JeffM]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

What is wrong with Eagle for small boards and 2 layers?
http://www.cadsoft.de/

**What's Wrong with Cadsoft EAGLE" by Markus Zingg
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/browse_frm/thread/f794e82d26b59e18/d7cf4149edb93ac7?q=*-*-website+reuse+paying.*+*-I-will-switch+cracked-*+*.would.not.help.*+zzz+after-*-*-version-*+copied+*.*.unlock.*.designs+*-*-*-*-exchange-*-*-*-*-third-party+reused+qq+*-*-single-bit-*-*-*-*+useless+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened

BTW, it's not really necessary to include the full text
from the 3 previous posters. Feel free to TRIM.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (29 Nov 2006 12:29:31 -0800) it happened "JeffM"
<jeffm_@email.com> wrote in
<1164832170.960177.146610@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
What is wrong with Eagle for small boards and 2 layers?
http://www.cadsoft.de/

**What's Wrong with Cadsoft EAGLE" by Markus Zingg
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/browse_frm/thread/f794e82d26b59e18/d7cf4149edb93ac7?q=*-*-website+reuse+paying.
*+*-I-will-switch+cracked-*+*.would.not.help.*+zzz+after-*-*-version-*+copied+*.*.unlock.*.designs+*-*-*-*-exchange-*-*-*-*-thir
d-party+reused+qq+*-*-single-bit-*-*-*-*+useless+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened

BTW, it's not really necessary to include the full text
from the 3 previous posters. Feel free to TRIM.

Well, there is always pro and contras.
Nothing is perfect, at least it installed, 3.55r and 4.09 and both work
in Linux, unlike geda that 1) does not install 2) does not have back-annotation.
I will quote what I want to quote, you play usenet police or cad police, but not
in my reader.

 

[KBG]

Which is better to use - Serial ADC or a ADC with output on 8 pins ?
Depends on what you are connecting the ADC to.

I need a single-channel only & 8-bit type. I have just now
started to design a simple
circuit for a very small requirement for me. So, i can jump between
serial & parallel.
So, I would like to know which to select - either serial ADC or
Parallel interface .
Kindly share your experience here.

Data transfer could be higher with a parallel interface, but thats not
always true.

Why ? what is the reason behind this ?

Thx in advans,
Karthik Balaguru

 

[KBG]

Data transfer could be higher with a parallel interface,
Yes, i understand the reason for this.

but thats not always true.
But , Why is the parallel interface not always higher ?

Which is better to use - Serial ADC or a ADC with output on 8 pins ?
Depends on what you are connecting the ADC to.

I need a single-channel only & 8-bit type. I have just now
started to design a simple circuit for a very small requirement for me.

So, i can jump between serial & parallel at this time.
So, I would like to know which to select - either serial ADC or
Parallel interface .
Kindly share your experience here.

Thx in advans,
Karthik Balaguru

 

[Donald]

KBG wrote:

Data transfer could be higher with a parallel interface,

Yes, i understand the reason for this.


but thats not always true.

But , Why is the parallel interface not always higher ?

Its obvious, 8bit vs 1 bit per read clock.

The problem is getting a chip that's 8bit or 16bit parallel.

Most ADCs being manufactured now are serial, and these serial devices
require a high speed serial port. ( SPI mostly )

Cost and size are the reason these serial devices are available.

Which is better to use - Serial ADC or a ADC with output on 8 pins ?

Depends on what you are connecting the ADC to.


I need a single-channel only & 8-bit type. I have just now
started to design a simple circuit for a very small requirement for me.

So, i can jump between serial & parallel at this time.
So, I would like to know which to select - either serial ADC or
Parallel interface .
Kindly share your experience here.

Thx in advans,
Karthik Balaguru

good luck

donald

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

joseph2k wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:

Joel Kolstad wrote:


"Robert Baer" <robertbaer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cA0ch.6173$1s6.2232@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...


Lessee...an order of magnitude for the price decrease, but at least
*three* orders of magnitude for required resources.
Seems the tradeoff is not so good...


Next you're going to be telling me there's no reason to drive a Humvee
to the grocery store a mile away just to pick up eggs and milk when you
could ride your bicycle there instead.



Better yet....a 4 letter word.... w a l k .



Three miles each way on a busy highway, no sidewalks and use my
cane? You're insane.


You need the exercise; good for the heart and the body.
I walk 3 miles in about 30 minutes on a good day, and about 45
minutes if lazy.

If you had read the post, try walking 3 miles when you require a cane or two
just to walk at all.

Not to mention in traffic that is moving at 55 MPH. It is along Hwy.
441, south of Ocala. No sidewalks, and some places you would have to
walk on the asphalt to go around fenced off retention ponds.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Mike Monett]

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hmm, that's very different in med electronics. It's pretty much 100% to
production there, with many of the designs being produced longer than
many car models are.

Regards, Joerg

I often wonder why you don't start a manufacturing company. With your
skills and background, you should do very well, especially since you
already have the experience running that kind of operation.

You are probably doing very well consulting, but boy, you could make a mint
making and selling your own product line. For you, the entire field is wide
open.

There's always the Chinese to think about. But you could start in niche
areas that require an excellent technical background for support, and where
sales are largely word-of-mouth. By the time they catch on, you could
dominate the market and it would be difficult or impossible for them to
break into it.

It may take a year or so, but I'd bet you would be a great success.

Regards,

Mike Monett

Antiviral, Antibacterial Silver Solution:
http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm

 

[Steve Goldstein]

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:28:57 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdh@SpamMeSenseless.pergamos.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

I just ran onto a situation where a modulated laser impinging upon a
photodiode had such a high light level that the photodiode was
"saturated"... no more available carriers.

Thus "clipping" of the modulation was occurring in the photodiode
itself, creating harmonics.

And lowering the DC bias on the laser raised the AC signal level...
really strange lab results to ponder when you're tired ;-)

Any ideas how one might *model* the photodiode in Spice?

...Jim Thompson

I'm not a big Spice guy--I use it about twice a year--but the physics of
what's going on is probably local forward bias caused by big lateral
voltage drops in the (very thin) epi layer. That's usually the
situation with modulated CW beams. Femtoseond beams can do truly evil
things to photodiodes, messing up the populations etc, but for
reasonable duty cycles the diode generally melts first.

Your first line of defense is a big fat reverse bias.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

I'm pretty much with Phil on this one. I saw this same effect way back when in
grad school at that little joint in Cambridge. The working theory at the time
was that the photocurrent and the diode's bulk resistance reduced the reverse
bias to nothing. It would be interesting if your customer was able to increase
the magnitude of the reverse-bias voltage just at the saturation point to test
this hypothesis. And yes, a bigger diode solved my problem as well, although
we ultimately used a beamsplitter (made of a simple microscope slide, about
4% reflection from each surface) so we could keep the bandwidth that the
smaller diode allowed. In our case the PD was inside a feedback loop so we
couldn't afford the lower BW.

I never thought about local forward-biasing, I'm not sure how this would work
in physics-land, or if it's testable just from the leads.

Steve

 

[Chuck Harris]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (9 Dec 2006 23:02:50 GMT) it happened jasen <jasen@free.net.nz
wrote in <elffaq$pd6$1@jasen.is-a-geek.org>:

emacs has an entire usenet client (gnus) written it its scripting language,
(some sort of LISP) also a couple of games (incl eliza and tetris)

This means I can use the same function key to perform the same
function, such as formatting a paragraph. For example, F4 formats
this entire message in square justification. In Pascal and C, the
same function key indents each line to identify blocks of code, like
this:
having a good text editor is handy

Bye.
Jasen

Emacs is useless for me.
I use 'joe', it starts up in milliseconds.
It is a full screen editor, and perfect fro programing.
Emacs is bloat.
Emacs is bloat
Emacs is BLOAT
repeat
And I do not like or underdstand the key sequences.

Like joe's (vi) key sequences make sense ;-)

The damage I have done in vi to a document when I forget I have toggled
into command mode, and start typing text furiously defies discussion
on a polite forum!

-Chuck

 

[Chuck Harris]

Ian Bell wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote:

No, it would be hard to say that emacs is like Windows... emacs never
crashes.


Actually it would be quite easy to say that EMACS is like windows. In their
early days, both had security holes as wide as a barn door.

In their later days, one still does.

-Chuck

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:31:49 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:05:26 GMT, LVMarc <LVMarc@att.net> wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 16:49:36 GMT, LVMarc <LVMarc@att.net> wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:


I just ran onto a situation where a modulated laser impinging upon a
photodiode had such a high light level that the photodiode was
"saturated"... no more available carriers.

Thus "clipping" of the modulation was occurring in the photodiode
itself, creating harmonics.

And lowering the DC bias on the laser raised the AC signal level...
really strange lab results to ponder when you're tired ;-)

Any ideas how one might *model* the photodiode in Spice?

...Jim Thompson


Jim,

The model would be a light controlled current source. PD's have about
0.8A/W conversion ratio. Double the light POWER and double the current
output. his is a log convertsion ratio. so it is never really "linear"
but always log. This continues till the voltage acrros the diode (the
signal) is about 1/10 the reverse bias and then you get somne cross
prodcut distortion. adign more power and then you saturate the amplifer
front end, add more power and there is a power density/max current which
is athe peak power limit.


I'm not saturating the amplifier... that was the first thoughts, given
peculiarities in a SwitCap filter output (harmonics) that followed the
TIA.

But something is happening in carrier generation... reducing light, or
going to a different PD (larger) solves the issue.

I'm just looking for some direction on how running out of carriers
might be modeled. It's sort of like channel saturation in a MOSFET or
maybe current-crowding in a bipolar device.



If you send the schematic Ill give it a lokk

Marc Popek


Can't do that... proprietary... start-up with VC money ;-)

...Jim Thompson

JT,

Why not measure the "sauration you observe, mathematically and directly,
INstad of terying to fool spice with circuit elements, just insert a
light level dependant A/W, then the saturation will be exactly what you
observe anyway!

as you indicate increasing area or decreasing the power (density?)
displays a decrease in the A/w conversion.

You may be able to get away by adding a a varible impedance to the
source, as this would give a linear explaination of the V va I response
observed.
Best regards,

marc


From what little data I've seen it looks like a MOSFET running out of
hole-electron pairs.

I'm trying to cajole the client into taking careful data but he's
resisting... he's sure he understands what is happening... he's a PhD
;-)


Just curious, why do you want to spend so much effort in modeling what
happens if the PD receives excessive optical energy? The docs I have
seen indicate that some irreversable damage might occur. Example on page
9 of this one:

http://www.newfocus.com/Manuals/15XX-B_Manual_RevA.pdf

I had a situation that was probably similar. The lasers for our market
were mostly 5mW and above but the PD couldn't stomach more than 1mW,
some of them 2mW. Called the client about it last week and we quickly
agreed to use optical attenuation.

Subtle usage of PD. NOT overpowering, just getting into
non-linearities that cause modulation to generate harmonics.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Stuart Brorson]

In sci.electronics.cad joseph2k <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:
: Does it leave a log file behind if it is invoked without the --log
: option?

Yes, if you run the installer with the --log flag set, then it drops a
file called Install.log into your local directory. That means that
you should run the installer from a writable directory, like your home
directory, like this:

cd ~
/media/cdrom/installer --log

Don't run it as root. Also if you don't want it to install the
prerequisite system files, then just look at the Install.log file,
gather a list of dependencies, and install them yourself by hand
before re-running the installer.

Stuart

 

[Charles Schuler]

<lestrale@dakotacom.net> wrote in message
news:1167774243.573149.161650@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

I'd like to say hello to everyone here... I hope that you all had happy
holidays.

Unfortunately, I had surgery a few weeks ago, and am presently only
able to lay on my back or sit in a reclining chair. I happened to find
this group and thought it would be a good way for me to pass some time,
share some of my experience, and learn a few things from the others who
may be here.

Please don't be shy about contacting me to say hello. I'll be laid-up
for at least a month, and will be glad to hear from you !

I hope 2007 is a better year for you!

Heal fast!

 

[Charles Schuler]

Oh, and if you are really looking for fun stuff at no cost, check out:
http://www.linear.com/designtools/softwareRegistration.jsp

 

[Boris Mohar]

On 02 Jan 2007 22:55:32 GMT, "David Brown"
<david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 14:08:55 -0800, Klaus Kragelund wrote:

Ben Jackson skrev:
On 2007-01-02, Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
I have recieved a preliminary quote from the board manufactor that
using blind/burried vias on a 4 layer stackup will cost approximately
10-15% more.

So the question is, do any of you guys have experience of how much PCB
real-estate is saved going to blind/burried vias?

If we're talking about inner vcc/gnd layers, then buried makes little
sense (short?) and blind is only going to help you on power/gnd vias.
One advantage of that might be freeing space behind a BGA to put in
caps. Other than that, it seems like a waste for 4 layers!


Well, one of the reasons I am going to look into this technology, is
that it is possible to have a via under/below a SMD part (its pads),
where one would normally find the a space to place the via in the gaps
between parts. But, I am not an expert on layout, so I take your
comments for good input

Thanks

Klaus

There are other ways to make via-in-pad work, depending on your pcb
manufacturer. It is possible to get varnish-filled vias, though it is far
from convenient for testing. It is also possible to get the pcb
manufacturer to provide solid solder deposit, which should fill up the
vias (as well as saving you from using solder paste). I haven't tried
SSD, I've only read about it.

Here are two links for plugged vias that I saved.

http://www.andus.de/Leiterplatten/HDI/e_plugging.htm
http://www.remtec.com/technology-designguide.htm#



Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

void _-void-_ in the obvious place

 

[Manu]

Hello Jean,

Happy new year jean. Which tool you use to design PCBs?

Manu

lestrale@dakotacom.net wrote:

I'd like to say hello to everyone here... I hope that you all had happy
holidays.

Unfortunately, I had surgery a few weeks ago, and am presently only
able to lay on my back or sit in a reclining chair. I happened to find
this group and thought it would be a good way for me to pass some time,
share some of my experience, and learn a few things from the others who
may be here.

Please don't be shy about contacting me to say hello. I'll be laid-up
for at least a month, and will be glad to hear from you !

All the best,

Jean Lestrale

www.dakotacom.net/~lestrale