EAGLE Netlist conversion

[Chuck Harris]

Joerg wrote:

Hello Kai-Martin,


Those guys who decide on such matters have two issues with HTML:

1) Formating is only hinted but not controlled. Even the choice of fonts
depends on configuration of the browser. This is a nightmare to the
executive who thinks in terms of "corporate design" and the like.

But why is it that I never have any font or other inconsistencies when
looking at HTML pages?

Because you don't recognize what these inconsistencies look like.

A web designer usually tries to pick fonts that exist as the lowest common
denominator among browsers. That necessarily leads them to one of
3 different fonts (Arial/Helvetica, Times, and Courier). These fonts
are to put it mildly, boring.

If the web designer were to be bold and pick something interesting, odds
are good that your browser would just render it as Arial/Helvetica,
nullifying the style that the designer was attempting to create.
Most browsers will allow the user to select between honoring the font
chosen by the website (if it can), or substituting any font the user
desires. Joe Sixpack will undoubtedly leave the setting just where
microsoft left it.

2) A HTML document is open source in the sense that anyone who receicves
it for reading can go ahead modify it and include it via copy and paste
to other documents. In an environment that regards every snippet of
information as an asset, this feels like giving away treasures for free.
In the mindset of a manager this is clearly unacceptable.

You can alter PDF files as well. Not with Acrobat Reader, you'd have to
spend a few hundred for the editor but I guess a crook who wants to
falsify has that kind of money. Maybe one can even edit with OpenOffice,
but that I don't know.

In spite of the terrific capabilities of the PDF/postscript format, most
PDF documents are just bit mapped pictures of the document they represent.
That makes any change a matter of editing bit graphics.

On the few documents that are actually collections of non bit mapped,
postscript files, editing becomes more doable.

-Chuck

 

[Joerg]

Hello Chuck,

But why is it that I never have any font or other inconsistencies when
looking at HTML pages?

Because you don't recognize what these inconsistencies look like.

Well, my vision ain't that bad yet. Maybe then the inconsistencies don't
really matter?

A web designer usually tries to pick fonts that exist as the lowest common
denominator among browsers. That necessarily leads them to one of
3 different fonts (Arial/Helvetica, Times, and Courier). These fonts
are to put it mildly, boring.

Boring or not, they do the job for technical documenting. Why does
everything have to look like "Dancing with the stars"?

If the web designer were to be bold and pick something interesting, odds
are good that your browser would just render it as Arial/Helvetica,
nullifying the style that the designer was attempting to create.
Most browsers will allow the user to select between honoring the font
chosen by the website (if it can), or substituting any font the user
desires. Joe Sixpack will undoubtedly leave the setting just where
microsoft left it.

Ok, I guess I am Joe Sixpack then. But I don't use Mircosoft and I do
not drink cheap beer, only the good stuff like micro brews ;-)

In spite of the terrific capabilities of the PDF/postscript format, most
PDF documents are just bit mapped pictures of the document they represent.
That makes any change a matter of editing bit graphics.

Well, so are graphics portions of HTML files. Editing bit mapped stuff
isn't really a big deal anymore these days. Even in the early 90's I did
that. Not for any malevolent purposes but to prepare publications and,
for example, change the language in a scope plot to whatever it needed
to be. When lots of work had to be done I had a Logitech hand scanner
and a nice OCR package.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Ken Smith]

In article <hc-dne7KzLSKyIHZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@rcn.net>,
Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
[....]

In spite of the terrific capabilities of the PDF/postscript format, most
PDF documents are just bit mapped pictures of the document they represent.
That makes any change a matter of editing bit graphics.

If it just grabbing a part of the document that you are doing, editing
from graphics isn't too hard to do.

There are some "OCR" programs out there that will do a fair job of turning
pictures of text into text. The place they really suck is at making
sense of mixtures of graphics and text.

I imagin that someone out there has a special package for blind engineers.
If not, someone should write one. Datasheets from a given maker tend to
look a lot alike so if you feed it several, it could adapt to the specific
format's charactreristics.


--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

 

[Chuck Harris]

Joerg wrote:

Hello Chuck,

Howdy!

But why is it that I never have any font or other inconsistencies
when looking at HTML pages?

Because you don't recognize what these inconsistencies look like.


Well, my vision ain't that bad yet. Maybe then the inconsistencies don't
really matter?

It isn't a question of vision, but rather of style. To an engineer,
anything that conveys the information without pain, or strain, is good,
but to an artistic type, that isn't the only requirement. You would not
believe the amount of effort your local newspaper, or any given magazine
goes to, to create its unique style. The usually are very reluctant to make
changes. This effort is even more evident among the professional web
developers. It seems like most are artists first, and programmers last.

A web designer usually tries to pick fonts that exist as the lowest
common
denominator among browsers. That necessarily leads them to one of
3 different fonts (Arial/Helvetica, Times, and Courier). These fonts
are to put it mildly, boring.


Boring or not, they do the job for technical documenting. Why does
everything have to look like "Dancing with the stars"?

It doesn't. But surely you can see the difference between the style
used in The Washington Post, and The New York Times? They both convey
information in a readable form, but someone in the business of graphics
design would be able to tell you which was which by seeing only a few
sentences.

If the web designer were to be bold and pick something interesting, odds
are good that your browser would just render it as Arial/Helvetica,
nullifying the style that the designer was attempting to create.
Most browsers will allow the user to select between honoring the font
chosen by the website (if it can), or substituting any font the user
desires. Joe Sixpack will undoubtedly leave the setting just where
microsoft left it.


Ok, I guess I am Joe Sixpack then. But I don't use Mircosoft and I do
not drink cheap beer, only the good stuff like micro brews ;-)

No, the fact that you are on these groups is a fair indication that you
are many cuts above Joe Sixpack. (Cheap beer is for teenagers, micro
breweries are for those who haven't yet discovered how easy it is to
brew your own.)

In spite of the terrific capabilities of the PDF/postscript format, most
PDF documents are just bit mapped pictures of the document they
represent.
That makes any change a matter of editing bit graphics.


Well, so are graphics portions of HTML files. Editing bit mapped stuff
isn't really a big deal anymore these days.

It 'tis if you are trying to make your "modifications" undetectable.

Even in the early 90's I did

that. Not for any malevolent purposes but to prepare publications and,
for example, change the language in a scope plot to whatever it needed
to be. When lots of work had to be done I had a Logitech hand scanner
and a nice OCR package.

But in that case, you were just trying to remove language dependent labels.
I doubt it really mattered to you if the astute reader could tell what you
had done.

-Chuck

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:28:32 GMT, the renowned Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Kai-Martin,


Those guys who decide on such matters have two issues with HTML:

1) Formating is only hinted but not controlled. Even the choice of fonts
depends on configuration of the browser. This is a nightmare to the
executive who thinks in terms of "coporate design" and the like.


But why is it that I never have any font or other inconsistencies when
looking at HTML pages?


2) A HTML document is open source in the sense that anyone who receicves
it for reading can go ahead modify it and include it via copy and paste
to other documents. In an environment that regards every snippet of
information as an asset, this feels like giving away treasures for free.
In the mindset of a manager this is clearly unacceptable.


You can alter PDF files as well. Not with Acrobat Reader, you'd have to
spend a few hundred for the editor but I guess a crook who wants to
falsify has that kind of money. Maybe one can even edit with OpenOffice,
but that I don't know.

It's actually pretty easy to pull bits out of PDFs for use in other
documentation etc. AI is one method, but there are free or almost free
methods too.

What it's often not easy to do is to recreate a complete editable
document from a PDF, such that the text will reflow within columns and
that sort of thing. All that higher level knowledge is lost in
translation to PDF format.

 

[kai-martin knaak]

Joerg schrieb:

[HTML vs PDF]

Well, my vision ain't that bad yet. Maybe then the inconsistencies don't
really matter?

To the engineer these "inconsistencies" don't really matter or may
even be considered a bonus. After all, the browser formats the
document according to your preference. But it's the manager who
typically has the last word on this kind of decision. He prefers to be in
control of everything.

Well, so are graphics portions of HTML files. Editing bit mapped stuff
isn't really a big deal anymore these days.

ack.
Still, Adobe managed to make laymen believe, that PDFs cannot be edited
and copy-paste of text snippets is not possible. I had to give a live
demonstration of ghostscript to my former boss to convince him, that in
most cases this is not true.

---<(kaimartin)>---
--
Kai-Martin Knaak
http://lilalaser.dyndns.org/blog

 

[Joerg]

Hello Chuck,

It isn't a question of vision, but rather of style. To an engineer,
anything that conveys the information without pain, or strain, is good,
but to an artistic type, that isn't the only requirement. ...

Yeah, I kind of realized that on my first job when I met the woman from
marketing who was assigned to critique our newly designed ultrasound
machine. She is now my wife

... This effort is even more evident among the professional web
developers. It seems like most are artists first, and programmers last.

As evidenced on corporate web sites. The latest casualty was TI's.

Ok, I guess I am Joe Sixpack then. But I don't use Mircosoft and I do
not drink cheap beer, only the good stuff like micro brews ;-)

No, the fact that you are on these groups is a fair indication that you
are many cuts above Joe Sixpack. (Cheap beer is for teenagers, micro
breweries are for those who haven't yet discovered how easy it is to
brew your own.)

I used to do that in my college days until we tried a bottle fermenting
brew and numerous bottles exploded in one guy's dorm room. Now we have a
nice local brewpub where you can have your growler refilled, just like
in grampa's days.

But in that case, you were just trying to remove language dependent labels.
I doubt it really mattered to you if the astute reader could tell what you
had done.

True. But anyway, for data sheets I still don't see the point. If
someone wanted to do a clever alteration they could, it just takes more
effort with PDF. But for the average engineer all that matters is to
obtain the information, and fast. That's where HTML excels.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Hello Spehro,

It's actually pretty easy to pull bits out of PDFs for use in other
documentation etc. AI is one method, but there are free or almost free
methods too.

Yes, you can do that even from within Acrobat Reader. But with the
restrictions you mentioned below.

What it's often not easy to do is to recreate a complete editable
document from a PDF, such that the text will reflow within columns and
that sort of thing. All that higher level knowledge is lost in
translation to PDF format.

And that's just the problem. Often you have to quote something verbatim
just as it is shown on the PDF. That is a nightmare because you can only
export the graphic and then the text, the latter losing pretty much all
of its formatting. With HTML it's simple. Copy -> Paste.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Hello Kai-Martin,

Still, Adobe managed to make laymen believe, that PDFs cannot be edited
and copy-paste of text snippets is not possible. I had to give a live
demonstration of ghostscript to my former boss to convince him, that in
most cases this is not true.

Just tried it, did a hi-res copy out of a pdf data sheet and flipped the
collector and emitter pinout around just to see what the results would
be. It worked. Of course, I erased that right away.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Kai-Martin,


Still, Adobe managed to make laymen believe, that PDFs cannot be edited
and copy-paste of text snippets is not possible. I had to give a live
demonstration of ghostscript to my former boss to convince him, that in
most cases this is not true.


Just tried it, did a hi-res copy out of a pdf data sheet and flipped the
collector and emitter pinout around just to see what the results would
be. It worked. Of course, I erased that right away.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Did you actually edit the image in the pdf file, and save it, or just copy
the graphics to the clipboard? This would be great if ghostscript could
edit pdf files!


Mike Monett

 

[Joerg]

Hello Mike,

Just tried it, did a hi-res copy out of a pdf data sheet and flipped the
collector and emitter pinout around just to see what the results would
be. It worked. Of course, I erased that right away.

Did you actually edit the image in the pdf file, and save it, or just copy
the graphics to the clipboard? This would be great if ghostscript could
edit pdf files!

No, I edited the bitmap file. But it would be no problem to turn that
into a pdf again with the right SW (which I don't have). However,
publishing it in an altered form would certainly be wrong.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

[...]

No, I edited the bitmap file. But it would be no problem to turn that
into a pdf again with the right SW (which I don't have). However,
publishing it in an altered form would certainly be wrong.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Thanks, Joerg. I was thinking more along the lines of stripping unwanted
pages and huge images from datasheets and articles and recompressing the
files to cut down on the huge disk storage space and serious time wasted
plowing through stuff. Maybe the paid version of Foxit may be the cheapest
way to get there:

http://www.foxitsoftware.com/

OTOH, maybe I should quit being picky and just buy a huge hard disk and a
real fast computer. Go with the flow and all that

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Rich Webb]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:27:38 -0500, mike monett wrote:

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

[...]

No, I edited the bitmap file. But it would be no problem to turn that
into a pdf again with the right SW (which I don't have). However,
publishing it in an altered form would certainly be wrong.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Thanks, Joerg. I was thinking more along the lines of stripping unwanted
pages and huge images from datasheets and articles and recompressing the
files to cut down on the huge disk storage space and serious time wasted
plowing through stuff. Maybe the paid version of Foxit may be the cheapest
way to get there:

http://www.foxitsoftware.com/

OTOH, maybe I should quit being picky and just buy a huge hard disk and a
real fast computer. Go with the flow and all that

If you just need to save several key pages from a pdf file into a new,
smaller pdf file, one free way (nag-ware supported) is PDF995 (which is
also available for purchase for $9.95). As long as the original pdf will
permit printing individual pages, of course. http://www.pdf995.com/

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

Rich Webb <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

[...]

If you just need to save several key pages from a pdf file into a new,
smaller pdf file, one free way (nag-ware supported) is PDF995 (which is
also available for purchase for $9.95). As long as the original pdf will
permit printing individual pages, of course. http://www.pdf995.com/

Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Thanks Rich. I get real nervous when I see statements like "The free
versions display a sponsor page in your web browser each time you run the
software."

Code that rearranges the operating system like that may increase the crash
rate and could be difficult to remove. Just give me stuff that installs
clean, doesn't mess with any Microsoft DLL's, doesn't install anything in
the Windows directories, doesn't add junk to the Registry, doesn't eat all
available RAM, doesn't waste gigabytes of disk space, doesn't use all
available CPU cycles, loads lickety-split, just does it's job and doesn't
crash.

Not many programs do that. Opera is about the closest I can find.

Regards,

Mike

 

[Rich Webb]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 04:55:38 -0500, mike monett wrote:

Rich Webb <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

[...]

If you just need to save several key pages from a pdf file into a new,
smaller pdf file, one free way (nag-ware supported) is PDF995 (which is
also available for purchase for $9.95). As long as the original pdf will
permit printing individual pages, of course. http://www.pdf995.com/

Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Thanks Rich. I get real nervous when I see statements like "The free
versions display a sponsor page in your web browser each time you run the
software."

Code that rearranges the operating system like that may increase the crash
rate and could be difficult to remove. Just give me stuff that installs
clean, doesn't mess with any Microsoft DLL's, doesn't install anything in
the Windows directories, doesn't add junk to the Registry, doesn't eat all
available RAM, doesn't waste gigabytes of disk space, doesn't use all
available CPU cycles, loads lickety-split, just does it's job and doesn't
crash.

Not many programs do that. Opera is about the closest I can find.

AFAIK, it just passes a URL to the system-registered HTTP handler to
open a puff page at their site when you start the app (i.e., send a page
to the virtual printer to be made into a PDF). It does not hijack the
web browser to, e.g, display their adverts when you're using the browser
otherwise.

I registered it ages ago for the "full" $19.95 version, which allows me
to print, say, a report from the word processor and then append a couple
of appendices from another app, all into a single pdf file, optionally
with bookmarks.

Not the full Adobe Acrobat by any means but it does pass the 80/20 test
in everything that I needed it for.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Joseph2k]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On 7 Mar 2006 04:58:33 -0800, "Vitaliy" <vmykhayl@ee.ryerson.ca
wrote:

I thought this would be simple, but how do I plot transimpedence gain
in PSpice. I have OrCAD 10.5 full suite, so PSpice is part of
CaptureCIS. Google was of no help.

Thanks,
Vitaliy

.AC analysis, source is element "IAC".

...Jim Thompson
I decided to read on before trying to give this poster my best only to find

that the exact answer had already been given. Thanks for saving me some
time.
--
JosephKK
Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.
--Schiller

 

[Joerg]

Hello Mike,

Thanks, Joerg. I was thinking more along the lines of stripping unwanted
pages and huge images from datasheets and articles and recompressing the
files to cut down on the huge disk storage space and serious time wasted
plowing through stuff. Maybe the paid version of Foxit may be the cheapest
way to get there:

http://www.foxitsoftware.com/

Thanks for the hint. But I guess it wouldn't spit out the discards so I
could start the wood stove with it

OTOH, maybe I should quit being picky and just buy a huge hard disk and a
real fast computer. Go with the flow and all that

One positive thing I have to say about PDF is that the format has a
remarkably small footprint. Except when it's color brochures but who
really needs these?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[JeffM]

If you just need to save several key pages from a pdf file
into a new, smaller pdf file,
Rich Webb

[Lights start flashing]

..
..

one free way (nag-ware supported) is PDF995

The ouput from the PDF print drivers

is the raster that is fed to the printer. in a PDF wrapper.
If you start with text and vector graphics,
the file that is created could easily be LARGER.

 

[Vitaliy]

Thank You both of you.

Vitaliy

 

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

[...]

One positive thing I have to say about PDF is that the format has a
remarkably small footprint. Except when it's color brochures but who
really needs these?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Hi Joerg,

Yes, that's the kind of thing I want to strip. They waste disk space and
take a long time to render.

As far as pdf footprints, there can be a very dramatic reduction in
filesize if the author knows how to compress the file properly. I often see
a factor of 10 difference or so in various app notes on the same ic's from
different vendors.

Naturally, the smaller app note loads faster. Browsing and searching are
also improved, so these vendors files tend to get stored on my hard disk.

Too bad programmers and pdf authors have no exams where they have to prove
they know how to minimize the size of a file

Regards,

Mike