Chip with simple program for Toy

May 23, 2014

1. If you are looking to copulate ('fuck something') try your local dog pound - you are likely to find bitches there.

2. OT is posting stuff (in s.e.basics) like: "How do I grow red roses" or starting this thread in s.e.design.

3. "waste everyone's time with your ..."
Who appointed you spokesperson for 'everyone'? Speak for yourself. Stand on your own two feet. Stop being a creepy-crawly, spineless worm.

4. Wasn't really flapping my gums.. more like clacking my kybrd. Subtle exaggeration seems to be your forte: trying to drum up a mob?

5. Use your kill-file if you are that busy - don't come whining to me about your personal problems.

6. The reason I'm posting is because.. i do believe, I've covered that

Read carefully, or ignore it.. that's entirely your decision.

May 23, 2014

Well 'expensive' in that sense is fairly subjective - and I'd rather not get drawn into an analysis on that. Yup, I'm referring to PCB-blanks (unpopulated). I had posted a link to the product I was referring to..

What I'm trying to understand is the manufacturing process.. how are they made.. I didn't know they used autoclaves so power would be a factor. Then the glue they use would have to be water-proof, non-hygroscopic, etc.

May 23, 2014

Also, once you apply the E field, why doesn't the whole electron cloud move to the anode?

What exactly is going on here? (I do have an intutive idea of what's going on but I'd rather have someone independent confirm my views). If I said what I thought was happening - I might get fobbed off with a yes yes - that's what's happening.

May 23, 2014

Following isn't for the benefit of 'John Fields', but for other people here:

1. JF called me 'mindless', a 'troll', and claimed that I was wasting 'everyone's' time. Now he says, he likes talking to 'troll's' and isn't busy.

2. I think he's a liar. I don't like him. I am ignoring him, and will continue to ignore him for a year (unless there are mitigating circumstances in the extreme - like he's dying of something, etc).

3. If i don't reply to 'John Fields' posts in the future, it's because he's ignored and not because I'm uncharitable. Also, he shouldn't be replying to any of my posts (since I've asked him not to) and is in all likely-hood being deliberately provocative imo.

4.I don't post here often and hope to keep it that way.

I always check quite regularly IF I've posted BUT after a day or two, I tend to dwaddle so you might not get a prompt reply beyond the first 4 days - BUT, don't hesitate to post a reply IF you do know the answer - I always check eventually (for quite some time).

May 23, 2014

kind of.. not to the Internet (IRC, Usenet), but to this group.

John Fields · May 23, 2014

On Thu, 22 May 2014 22:03:41 -0700 (PDT), vek.m1234@gmail.com wrote:

>1. If you are looking to copulate ('fuck something') try your local dog pound - you are likely to find bitches there.

---
Hmm...

Seems a rabid rakshur kukur has escaped, is now in estrus, and is
begging for "service" here.

Count me out.
---

>2. OT is posting stuff (in s.e.basics) like: "How do I grow red roses" or starting this thread in s.e.design.

---
Actually, your original post would have been less off topic in sed
than it is here, since the economics of electronics is a little
closer to the design side than than "What's a resistor?"

Off-topic also refers to trolls, which you gave away as being with
your first post flaming stackexchange for not helping you when you
didn't even _try_ to get help, a la : "Who needs their fucking jack,
anyway..."
---

3. "waste everyone's time with your ..."
Who appointed you spokesperson for 'everyone'? Speak for yourself. Stand on your own two feet. Stop being a creepy-crawly, spineless worm.

---
You start with a beliggerent attitude and a false premise and don't
even bother to get your ducks in a row before you start asking
pointless questions which you could easily have answered yourself if
you weren't such a spoiled brat, so how are you not wasting
everyone's time?

Except mine, of course; I rather enjoy spanking trolls.

---

>4. Wasn't really flapping my gums.. more like clacking my kybrd. Subtle exaggeration seems to be your forte: trying to drum up a mob?

---
Nope, just pointing out that you beating yours so loudly - and so
out of time - is offensive.
---

>5. Use your kill-file if you are that busy -

---
Where does it say I'm that busy???
---

>don't come whining to me about your personal problems.

---
Ad hominem red herring.
---

>6. The reason I'm posting is because.. i do believe, I've covered that

Read carefully, or ignore it.. that's entirely your decision.

---
You do seem to have a remarkable grasp of the obvious, except when
it comes to the number of choices I have available.

John Fields

John Fields · May 23, 2014

On Thu, 22 May 2014 22:10:09 -0700 (PDT), vek.m1234@gmail.com wrote:

>Well 'expensive' in that sense is fairly subjective - and I'd rather not get drawn into an analysis on that.

---
If your claim is that copper-clad laminate is overly expensive, then
an analysis to prove your point would be de rigueur.
---

Yup, I'm referring to PCB-blanks (unpopulated).
I had posted a link to the product I was referring to..

What I'm trying to understand is the manufacturing process.. how are they made.. I didn't know they used autoclaves so power would be a factor. Then the glue they use would have to be water-proof, non-hygroscopic, etc.

---
Google copper clad laminate manufacturing tutorial.

John Fields

May 23, 2014

*noddles* (amiable nodding)

May 23, 2014

Thanks. Just to be clear - for a gas tube:

1. Cathode gets hot. Thermal-energy > Work-function imparted to electron. Electron leaves metal and becomes space-charge cloud.
2. Cloud has near-side facing-metal and far-side facing-anode.

3. Near-side electrons fall back into the cathode because of image charge effect (a +ve charge is created within the metal equal to the -ve charge of the electron and that draws the near-side electrons in to the metal, like a mirror-image +z/-z distance apart)

4. Far-side electrons are drawn to anode (plate current). On the way they ionize gas molecules (collision - if ionization-voltage is applied) which are attracted to the cloud.

5. Extra electrons reach anode - contribute to increased plate current.

6. Ions move towards e-cloud and neutralize cloud.

********************************
Resistance of Tube drops! Why!???
********************************
7. Because, for electron to leave the metal/cathode surface it has to have energy greater than the work-function AND it also has to overcome electron cloud repulsion (like charges repel) - is this point correct (the cloud-repulsion bit)???

8. Assuming 7's correct: neutralizing the cloud with ions will cause a drop in Resistance since you only need work-function energy to push the electron out of the metal. - Correct?

***********************************
9. If the Ionization voltage drops below de-ionization voltage:
"Under such conditions, the positive gas ions combine with electrons to form neutral gas molecules and conduction stops."

If the ionization voltage is reduced below de-ionization voltage, electrons can no longer ionize molecules - therefore they combine instead to form neutral molecules and conduction stops? Huh? But why doesn't plate-current flow???
***********************************

Section 3.2, Pages: 40/41 of Chapter 3
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/Download%20eBooks/Principles%20of%20electronics/CH-03.pdf

or this one if you want all chapters:
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/Download%20eBooks/Download%20eBooks.html

JW · May 23, 2014

On Fri, 23 May 2014 05:49:59 -0700 (PDT) vek.m1234@gmail.com wrote in
Message id: <5d74734b-88af-41a5-97cf-6a074bc1616e@googlegroups.com>:

>Also, he shouldn't be replying to any of my posts (since I've asked him not to)

You're new here, aren't you?

Phil Hobbs · May 23, 2014

On 05/23/2014 02:11 AM, vek.m1234@gmail.com wrote:

Also, once you apply the E field, why doesn't the whole electron
cloud move to the anode?

It does, if the grid lets it through.

What exactly is going on here? (I do have an intutive idea of what's
going on but I'd rather have someone independent confirm my views).
If I said what I thought was happening - I might get fobbed off with
a yes yes - that's what's happening.

The cathode emits electrons with energies way below 1 eV. They're
attracted back to the cathode by the image charge effect, so in the
absence of an applied E field, they soon come into equilibrium. (There
are other things that can happen, e.g. Barkhausen oscillations, but
that's a fine point.)

If there's a plate, and you make it positive with respect to the
cathode, the electrons nearest to it will accelerate towards it.
Electrons nearer the cathode are still nearly in equilibrium, because
the mobile charges shield out the E field after a short distance.

If you keep cranking up the voltage, so that the E field region reaches
the cathode, you reach the cathode-limited condition. The high E field
at the cathode surface leads to fairly rapid damage, so you want to
avoid this with an oxide cathode. (I don't think it hurts tungsten or
thoriated-tungsten cathodes, but their emission is much lower.)

The grid controls how much of the electron cloud feels the plate
voltage, by repelling most of the electrons before they get through it.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Phil Hobbs · May 23, 2014

On 05/23/2014 08:49 AM, vek.m1234@gmail.com wrote:

Following isn't for the benefit of 'John Fields', but for other
people here:

1. JF called me 'mindless', a 'troll', and claimed that I was wasting
'everyone's' time. Now he says, he likes talking to 'troll's' and
isn't busy.

2. I think he's a liar. I don't like him.

Wow, you are a quick study.

I am ignoring him, and will
continue to ignore him for a year (unless there are mitigating
circumstances in the extreme - like he's dying of something, etc).

You can ignore him, but he probably won't go away. A killfile is your
friend.

3. If i don't reply to 'John Fields' posts in the future, it's
because he's ignored and not because I'm uncharitable. Also, he
shouldn't be replying to any of my posts (since I've asked him not
to) and is in all likely-hood being deliberately provocative imo.

"I'm shocked, shocked!" that you think there are any button-pushers in
this group. Most of them aren't very good at it, but often get a rise
out of people who are sufficiently bored or thin-skinned. Use a
killfile (or message filters in Thunderbird, or whatever) to get rid of
people you don't want to deal with, but don't get all huffy about it, or
you'll just get more of the same.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

whit3rd · May 23, 2014

On Friday, May 23, 2014 9:26:07 AM UTC-7, vek....@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks. Just to be clear - for a gas tube:

1. Cathode gets hot. Thermal-energy > Work-function imparted to electron. Electron leaves metal and becomes space-charge cloud.

2. Cloud has near-side facing-metal and far-side facing-anode.

3. Near-side electrons fall back into the cathode because of image charge effect

It's possible for electrons to diffuse within the cloud, and go back into
the cathode; that's important when calculating the available charge. This is part
of the pseudo-equilibrium state, not really an event in itself...

4. Far-side electrons are drawn to anode (plate current). On the way they ionize gas molecules (collision - if ionization-voltage is applied) which are attracted to the cloud.

5. Extra electrons reach anode - contribute to increased plate current.

6. Ions move towards e-cloud and neutralize cloud.

> Resistance of Tube drops! Why!???

The heated cathode has a limited rate-of-emission of electrons; when you add ionization
of gas, in bulk, to the current flow, you get much higher current capability (it's not
precisely a resistor effect, that's just a figure of speech in this case).
I wouldn't assume ions 'neutralize cloud' electrons, they could directly strike the
cathode to dump their charge!

Phil Hobbs · May 24, 2014

On 5/23/2014 12:26 PM, vek.m1234@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks. Just to be clear - for a gas tube:

1. Cathode gets hot. Thermal-energy > Work-function imparted to electron. Electron leaves metal and becomes space-charge cloud.
2. Cloud has near-side facing-metal and far-side facing-anode.

3. Near-side electrons fall back into the cathode because of image charge effect (a +ve charge is created within the metal equal to the -ve charge of the electron and that draws the near-side electrons in to the metal, like a mirror-image +z/-z distance apart)

4. Far-side electrons are drawn to anode (plate current). On the way they ionize gas molecules (collision - if ionization-voltage is applied) which are attracted to the cloud.

5. Extra electrons reach anode - contribute to increased plate current.

6. Ions move towards e-cloud and neutralize cloud.

********************************
Resistance of Tube drops! Why!???
********************************
7. Because, for electron to leave the metal/cathode surface it has to have energy greater than the work-function AND it also has to overcome electron cloud repulsion (like charges repel) - is this point correct (the cloud-repulsion bit)???

8. Assuming 7's correct: neutralizing the cloud with ions will cause a drop in Resistance since you only need work-function energy to push the electron out of the metal. - Correct?

***********************************
9. If the Ionization voltage drops below de-ionization voltage:
"Under such conditions, the positive gas ions combine with electrons to form neutral gas molecules and conduction stops."

If the ionization voltage is reduced below de-ionization voltage, electrons can no longer ionize molecules - therefore they combine instead to form neutral molecules and conduction stops? Huh? But why doesn't plate-current flow???
***********************************

Section 3.2, Pages: 40/41 of Chapter 3
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/Download%20eBooks/Principles%20of%20electronics/CH-03.pdf

or this one if you want all chapters:
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/Download%20eBooks/Download%20eBooks.html

Gas tubes are different. You have avalanche ionization to worry about.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

John Fields · May 24, 2014

On Fri, 23 May 2014 07:52:20 -0700 (PDT), vek.m1234@gmail.com wrote:

>kind of.. not to the Internet (IRC, Usenet), but to this group.

---
New around USENET, are you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_quoting

John Fields

John Fields · May 24, 2014

On Fri, 23 May 2014 08:13:45 -0700 (PDT), vek.m1234@gmail.com wrote:

>*noddles* (amiable nodding)

---
From:

http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12348&topic=250

"Summarize what you're following up.

When you click "Reply" under "show options" to follow up an existing
article, Google Groups includes the full article in quotes, with the
cursor at the top of the article. Tempting though it is to just
start typing your message, please STOP and do two things first.
Look at the quoted text and remove parts that are irrelevant.

[But not _everything]

Then, go to the BOTTOM of the article and start typing there.

[In other words, in lieu of a good reason not to, bottom post]

Doing this makes it much easier for your readers to get through your
post. They'll have a reminder of the relevant text before your
comment, but won't have to re-read the entire article.
And if your reply appears on a site before the original article
does, they'll get the gist of what you're talking about."

John Fields

May 28, 2014

I can hold my tpnue no longer. How the fuck can an accomp;lished engineer like you not get this. It is so fucng simple.

the bandwidth of an amp is what is it, but the power bandwidth is what the output stae (and its asociates) cn deliver.

I mean like come on, you are not talking some fuckin weirdo ass shit here.

I dunno anymore, should I just...

?

RobertMacy · May 28, 2014

On Wed, 28 May 2014 02:41:37 -0700, <jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote:

...snip...
I dunno anymore, should I just...

?

....continue to bite your tongue? yeah, good idea. Did you notice the
significance in your point got lost in the typos and gramatical errors.
Perhaps, try again and elaborate a bit, and of course, epithets deleted,
they didn't add much.

Jim Thompson · May 28, 2014

On Wed, 28 May 2014 02:41:37 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

I can hold my tpnue no longer. How the fuck can an accomp;lished engineer like you not get this. It is so fucng simple.

the bandwidth of an amp is what is it, but the power bandwidth is what the output stae (and its asociates) cn deliver.

I mean like come on, you are not talking some fuckin weirdo ass shit here.

I dunno anymore, should I just...

?

Ladies and gents, the tirade above is why I blanket killfile
gmail/google posters, then whitelist any good guys (takes fewer
filters than killfiling the majority of gmail/google posters by their
individual names >:-}

Clearly this jerk-off didn't even read my post, nor does he have a
clue what power bandwidth really is.

Nor how power bandwidth is related to slew-rate.

Nor how to measure it in the lab. Nor how you could replicate that
lab setup as a performance analysis in a simulator... which was what
my post was all about.

I've been designing OpAmp chips for more than 50 years

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice

RobertMacy · May 28, 2014

On Wed, 28 May 2014 10:34:48 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:

...snip....incomprehensible tirade
,,,snip....righteous indignation
...Jim Thompson

You must have missed the "Do not feed the trolls" sign?

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