Chip with simple program for Toy

Jim Thompson · May 29, 2014

On Wed, 28 May 2014 10:45:53 -0700, RobertMacy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 28 May 2014 10:34:48 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:

...snip....incomprehensible tirade
,,,snip....righteous indignation
...Jim Thompson

You must have missed the "Do not feed the trolls" sign?

Jun 1, 2014

Look in your service panel to see if the neutral FOR THAT CIRCUIT comes from a breaker, NOT THE NORMAL NEUTERAL BUS. If so, it is a GFI breaker and this is normal. that fact that you have a little voltage from neutral to ground is also normal and since it trips on common mode current, which is the specific reason for the separate neutral coming from the GFI breaker. It wil NOT be connected to the main bus.

If it is not a GFI breaker, some idiot withing the last (years since they buolt the house) has mixed up the hot and neutral. I have dealt with this hundreds of times. Whenever ANY wiring is done on an older hose, identifyingt hte neutral is crucial for safety, and one of the most common mistakes.

And made by thoise licensed bonded and insured assholes that if you sue them they don't lose shit, and the corrected by ME. Many, many times. It is so fucking easy to make a mistake is ain't funny.

Amd I hope you are smart enough to figure ut if the white is the hot off the switch. Imean, a guy who designs guidance systems for out def, oh, never mind...

Only joking there. house wiring is a differnet animal than electronics. you can't even uise your meter for it, you need what's called a "Wiggy". Not the kind wiht the neon bulbs in it, it has a meter that hums. that is whatit takes to REALLY knowe what is going on in old residential wiring.

Jun 1, 2014

And you should have bee measuring some voltage there. You were on AC right ? That is puzzling.

whit3rd · Jun 3, 2014

On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:22 PM UTC-7, Jim Thompson wrote:

Anyone make an off-the-shelf timer that I can trigger and it'll run

for X-hours then operate a relay?

Sure, there's industrial timer modules with that kind of function

<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron/H5CX-L8-N-AC100-240/?qs=FN6c%2FmSgC7%252bdtjd6O9Tikg%3D%3D&gclid=CMGyz9-y3r4CFYqPfgodlSgA1g>

and at the consumer end, you can get X-10 modules with relays (UM506) which
can be operated by timer controllers (or, by computer interfaces).

Jun 5, 2014

On Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:58:56 AM UTC-7, no_...@no_one.com wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/m2btb34

Good one!

Jun 9, 2014

On Sunday, June 8, 2014 5:19:45 PM UTC-4, greenaum wrote:

[Sorry to double-post. I just saw S.E.B and it looked a good place to

post. I've cross-posted to keep replies in one place, tho I'm reading

both groups. Sorry!]

Hi,

I want to get into microcontrollers, just for for and a hobby. I think

my first project will be a scrolling display on an 8x8 LED, probably

extended to more later. But I wanna do all sorts of stuff, just to

tinker.

I'm good with programming C on computers. I understand assembly in

principle if not with too much experience (messing with my old ZX

Spectrum's Z80 machine code). Analogue stuff I'm a bit lost with but I

can switch a transistor on and off and put in the odd current-limiting

resistor. I'm good with logic.

I'd work most on a breadboard and possibly stripboard after, not into

making PCBs yet.

Anyway I was thinking of starting with PIC cos it looks simple. But

Arduino has much more expansibility, and with the libraries and

modules, looks easy to stretch into areas without having to learn too

much first, which is nice.

OTOH too much hand-holding is a turn-off to start with, I'd like to

write simple machine-code routines for my scroller, etc. PIC looks

nice here, and also looks cheaper, and lots of different options

available for pins and features.

I think what I want is a cheap setup for PIC just to get some basic

principles mastered. Could I get on with a home-made serial port

thing, with just a couple of diodes etc on stripboard? Plans are on

the web, doesn't look too hard, and I have an actual serial port

waiting for some love. Or would that tend to run into lots of

undecipherable problems and get frustrating?

For Arduino there are lots of starter kits, and cheap $5 Chinese 'ino

boards. Prices vary so, so, much on almost-identical items. Sainsmart

do a kit with lots of stuff but apparently abonimable documents. I'm

willing to spend the 40-50 UK pounds or so to get a nice starter kit,

but I want value for money, seems a shame to pay so much more than you

have to. But not cheapskate, or low-quality stuff. I'd hate to spend

hours blaming my own ineptitude when some Chinese capacitor somewhere

is to blame.

Also I might like to be able to program Arduinos / AVRs without having

to use the bootloader, in the future. Just so I could use lower-end

chips and save the bootloader space. So does that need a programmer?

An expensive one?

SO... as a beginner, I want some sort of practice that's reliable and

easy to get early results from. Is there an easy way to start with PIC

for cheap, or should I forget that and get Arduino? And what's a good

kit to buy, and also a source of extra 'inos for further projects?

There's a ton of sites on the web, but no obvious indication to take

one opinion over another. If someone wants to give me a setup, a

price, and ideally a UK supplier (or at least Amazon or Paypal if it's

foreign), I'd be very pleased and probably take the advice.

Viva Usenet!

--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There's nothing like eating hay when you're faint," the White King remarked to Alice, as he munched away.

"I should think throwing cold water over you would be better," Alice suggested: "--or some sal-volatile."

"I didn't say there was nothing better," the King replied. "I said there was nothing like it."

Which Alice did not venture to deny.

Go here to start:
http://www.mikroe.com/products/view/285/book-pic-microcontrollers-programming-in-c/

Spehro Pefhany · Jun 11, 2014

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:06:57 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Anyone have a clever solution to this problem...

I have a one-line telephone, but two telephone lines in the house.

Is there some way, perhaps with relays to recognize which line is
ringing and have the one-line phone connected to the ringing line?

(It's a honey-do problem... you know... "pretty phone, don't throw it
away"

...Jim Thompson

Search for "2-line switch".

These guys in Taiwan have one that looks to meet your request, and
apparently they'll ship.

http://www.mycomsolutions.com/ax520/ax520.htm

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Jim Thompson · Jun 11, 2014

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 18:34:29 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:06:57 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Anyone have a clever solution to this problem...

I have a one-line telephone, but two telephone lines in the house.

Is there some way, perhaps with relays to recognize which line is
ringing and have the one-line phone connected to the ringing line?

(It's a honey-do problem... you know... "pretty phone, don't throw it
away"

...Jim Thompson

Search for "2-line switch".

These guys in Taiwan have one that looks to meet your request, and
apparently they'll ship.

http://www.mycomsolutions.com/ax520/ax520.htm

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

RobertMacy · Jun 11, 2014

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:43:03 -0700, David Platt <dplatt@coop.radagast.org>
wrote:

Anyone have a clever solution to this problem...

I have a one-line telephone, but two telephone lines in the house.

Is there some way, perhaps with relays to recognize which line is
ringing and have the one-line phone connected to the ringing line?

(It's a honey-do problem... you know... "pretty phone, don't throw it
away"

Radio Shack used to sell such a device. IIRC it's basically a
latching relay with the coil(s) activated by the ringing current.

Dunno if they or anyone else still markets something like this... I
bought ours back in the late 1980s.

I have, in storage, a commercially produced telephone accessory [cost
about $50] to enable a single line telephone to operate two telco lines.
Although the device could sit in view showing which line Ring indicators,
'line in use' indicators, AND HOLD indicators multi color LEDs; it could
be placed out of sight because it had no buttons. You operated transitions
by using ON HOOK/OFF HOOK, or 'flash' button on the keyboard. Very handy
to place a present conversation on HOLD in order to answer the other
line's incoming call. Plus, if the other person terminated the call while
on HOLD; the unit sensed the hang up and released the line.

Jun 13, 2014

Something to watch for: Whether that one-line phone is the old type with power supplied through the phone line, or the new type with power supplied by a nearby AC to DC converter. A solution for one type is unlikely to work for the other type, unless it has a switch to tell it which type you have.

Jasen Betts · Jun 13, 2014

On 2014-06-13, robertmilesxyz@gmail.com <robertmilesxyz@gmail.com> wrote:
> Something to watch for: Whether that one-line phone is the old type with power supplied through the phone line, or the new type with power supplied by a nearby AC to DC converter. A solution for one type is unlikely to work for the other type, unless it has a switch to tell it which type you have.

All phones draw current from the line when off hook and
respond to large AC by ringing. any that dont won't work
correctly on ordinary telephone circuits.

Phones with individual powersupplies typically need them to power
features that must run while on-hook (when the phne line can provide
no significant power) or that require more power than the phone line
can provide.

eg: the cordless phone base station must run the radio receiver to
listen for the handset while on hook so the user can place a call.
(and it probably powers most features of the phone)

The simplest solution is something based around ring detectors and a
latching relay (as the device can be line powered), several people
have proposed this, (I deleted my contribution before it was sent)

Such a device would probably behave badly when a second call arrives
on the other line, unless significant complexity is added...

--
umop apisdn

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

John Fields · Jun 13, 2014

On 13 Jun 2014 12:20:47 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2014-06-13, robertmilesxyz@gmail.com <robertmilesxyz@gmail.com> wrote:
Something to watch for: Whether that one-line phone is the old type with power supplied through the phone line, or the new type with power supplied by a nearby AC to DC converter. A solution for one type is unlikely to work for the other type, unless it has a switch to tell it which type you have.

All phones draw current from the line when off hook and
respond to large AC by ringing. any that dont won't work
correctly on ordinary telephone circuits.

Phones with individual powersupplies typically need them to power
features that must run while on-hook (when the phne line can provide
no significant power) or that require more power than the phone line
can provide.

eg: the cordless phone base station must run the radio receiver to
listen for the handset while on hook so the user can place a call.
(and it probably powers most features of the phone)

The simplest solution is something based around ring detectors and a
latching relay (as the device can be line powered), several people
have proposed this, (I deleted my contribution before it was sent)

Such a device would probably behave badly when a second call arrives
on the other line, unless significant complexity is added...

---
Anybody can guess; why not put pencil to paper and end the
conjecture?

John Fields

Jim Thompson · Jun 13, 2014

On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:53:16 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On 13 Jun 2014 12:20:47 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2014-06-13, robertmilesxyz@gmail.com <robertmilesxyz@gmail.com> wrote:
Something to watch for: Whether that one-line phone is the old type with power supplied through the phone line, or the new type with power supplied by a nearby AC to DC converter. A solution for one type is unlikely to work for the other type, unless it has a switch to tell it which type you have.

All phones draw current from the line when off hook and
respond to large AC by ringing. any that dont won't work
correctly on ordinary telephone circuits.

Phones with individual powersupplies typically need them to power
features that must run while on-hook (when the phne line can provide
no significant power) or that require more power than the phone line
can provide.

eg: the cordless phone base station must run the radio receiver to
listen for the handset while on hook so the user can place a call.
(and it probably powers most features of the phone)

The simplest solution is something based around ring detectors and a
latching relay (as the device can be line powered), several people
have proposed this, (I deleted my contribution before it was sent)

Such a device would probably behave badly when a second call arrives
on the other line, unless significant complexity is added...

---
Anybody can guess; why not put pencil to paper and end the
conjecture?

John Fields

;-) Anyone can conjecture. Last year I had to assist in filing an
action against a patent that was basically a single block diagram
saying "this block is an RFID tag, and has these specs", thus is an
invention... took more than a year but the patent court finally
whacked them up aside the head ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice

RobertMacy · Jun 14, 2014

On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 10:02:30 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:

...snip...

;-) Anyone can conjecture. Last year I had to assist in filing an
action against a patent that was basically a single block diagram
saying "this block is an RFID tag, and has these specs", thus is an
invention... took more than a year but the patent court finally
whacked them up aside the head ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Glad you found something to buy!

However, for those interested. You can do an awful lot using the power
from the telco, and not require a wall wart. You can take tiny bit of
power when ON HOOK, assume around 10Meg to 20Meg is best [from memory the
spec leakage requires more than 5MEG] you can use a couple of 2N3055 NPN's
[MPS3055 now?] to do all kinds of things, like detect if another phone has
acquired the line. ring detection is usually a separate bridge recifier
circuit to give a sequence of appropriate pulses. Everything uses a
bridge, but is not really necessary, except sometimes the telephone
company will actually reverse the polarity of your call IN MID CALL!!! so
best to always use a bridge. With today's new equipment they may not be
doing that anymore.

A lot more power is available when OFF HOOK. To put the line on HOLD,
requires something a bit husky like 1/2 watt R's and 2N2022 metal can to
take the heat.

Circa 80's, I wrote an article that appeared in a Gernsbach Publication,
the people who published Popular Electronics. Gernsbach was trying to
launch a new publication called "Hands On Electronics". They wanted their
new publication to contain DIY Electronic Projects, and 'how to'
article's. The article was entitled "Hands-free Telephone Headset" [I
think] which described a project for using parts around your lab and a bit
of a tutorial on telco lines. For those of you who appreciate my writing
'ability' as demonstrated here, the Editor did NOT change a single word in
the manuscript, nor edit any of the drawings and images. That's me in the
photo using the hands free telephone on the first page. It all started
when I went to buy a hands free telephone headset and the Plantronics unit
was priced at a whopping $179 !! so I built my own with parts from the lab
and $5 worth of connectors and a box.

Jun 14, 2014

On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 18:02:57 -0500, Tim Wescott
<tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:06:57 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

Anyone have a clever solution to this problem...

I have a one-line telephone, but two telephone lines in the house.

Is there some way, perhaps with relays to recognize which line is
ringing and have the one-line phone connected to the ringing line?

(It's a honey-do problem... you know... "pretty phone, don't throw it
away"

...Jim Thompson

The ring signal is a strong (I think the specification is 96V p-p) 20Hz
AC signal on top of the 48V DC to the phone. It's got enough oomph
behind it to ring real, physical bells in several phones at once (or in
my case, one honkin' big bell that can be heard all over my 5 acres when
the shop door is open).

<SNIP>
And if you are 13 years old and holding the wires whilst hooking up a
surreptitious phone when someone calls your house the 96V shock will
surprise the crap (almost) out of you and you can't tell anybody about
it because you were sneaking around installing the phone.
Eric

whit3rd · Jun 18, 2014

On Sunday, June 15, 2014 12:57:07 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

> I want a low-skew true/complement buffer or gate.

So, two NANDs makes a R/S flop; you just want one
already wired up? A 74LVC74 datasheet says skew is under
a nanosecond (not all datasheets are so forthcoming).

Low-skew differential output is useful combined with
other logic; maybe one could find uses for a '555 variant?
Accurate Schmitt trigger input/differential output sounds useful.
It'd fit an eight-pin package fine if you left the discharge pin out...

Here's one function that oughta be on a chip: AC-in and
precision rectify, output proportional to difference of AC (average
of absolute value) from a threshold voltage setting. You'd use
it to generate an AC amplitude error signal for a feedback loop.
If you want to be elaborate, you could sample/hold the DC
result at zero crossings upward, so the output is stable for
the full cycle, updating only on subsequent zero crossings from
the filtered-absolute-value.

Alas, I've got lots of project ideas. Funding, not so much.

Russell Coleman · Jun 22, 2014

On 2014-06-21 22:35:42 +0000, DaveC said:

What is it? ::

http://oi62.tinypic.com/28u69on.jpg

Itšs adjacent to a 3.5 mm jack on the back of a 24˛ LCD monitor. The
documentation doesnšt call out this connector.

It *almost* looks like an audio connector symbol except for the arrow-thing.
No audio coming out of it; I plugged in amplified speakers and nothing.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Dave

looks like an audio input symbol to me as the arrow is going inside.

Jun 22, 2014

>"I've cracked some lenses open and the iris was just a stepper motor with
no feedback. Much like old floppy disk heads, they banged up against a
stopper to initialize "

No, the feedback was the overcurrent when it bottomed out.

Rememer, form is everything, function is a neessary annoyance, and cost is king.

greenaum · Jun 22, 2014

On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:04:30 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com sprachen:

And if you are 13 years old and holding the wires whilst hooking up a
surreptitious phone when someone calls your house the 96V shock will
surprise the crap (almost) out of you and you can't tell anybody about
it because you were sneaking around installing the phone.
Eric

Also if you're in the habit of stripping wires with your teeth, wire
up the upstairs extension box BEFORE you plug the other end in
downstairs.

--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There's nothing like eating hay when you're faint," the White King remarked to Alice, as he munched away.
"I should think throwing cold water over you would be better," Alice suggested: "--or some sal-volatile."
"I didn't say there was nothing better," the King replied. "I said there was nothing like it."
Which Alice did not venture to deny.

Jun 23, 2014

.."Do you know about http://tinyurl.com/ ? "

Yes I do, and when you use it I will not go to that kink until someone else comments on it. Know why ? MY COMPUTER WORKS, and I want it to keep working.

Don't shroud those URLs in that shit./ Fucking WHY ? ?Don;t you want us to know where your links will take us ?

Chip with simple program for Toy

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