Chip with simple program for Toy

[Nobody]

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:03:41 +0000, Eeyore wrote:

But, in all my Athlon PCs (and I would bet Intel does it too), it uses
a 3 phase converter to make the 50+ amp 1.65 Volt core power supply

Tell me about this '3 phase converter' will you ?

He's almost certainly referring to a multi-phase buck converter. That's
how the CPU core voltage is normally generated on modern systems.

 

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:49:15 +0000, Clint Sharp
<clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message <475515b7.7069014@news.netaccess.co.nz>, ?@?.?.invalid writes
Hello,

I have am a little confused here about the inverting and non-inverting

mosfet drivers TC4429 and TC4420.
Yet when I look at the functional block diagram of both types the
inverting 4429 has an inverter followed by another inverter so then it
must be a non-inverting driver and as the non-inverting 4420 has only
the latter inverter it must be an inverting driver. Is this correct or
am I reading it completely wrong?
Umm, my understanding of the block diagram is that the 4429 has three
inverters, the input looks like a schmitt input NAND gate with both
inputs wired together, therefore an inverter. The 4420 has only the NAND
and the inverter so that's 'true' logic. Maybe I'm missing something as
well but that's how I'd read it?

--
Clint Sharp

Clint.

Thankyou for your post.

Regards,

Andrew.

 

[jeremy]

For those who haven't encountered lock-in amps before, what
they do is essentially chop the input at the applied reference
frequency, then amplify, low-pass filter, and meter it. (The
"lock-in" part of the name is a red herring.)

I think the idea of the name is that the device 'locks in' to the
reference frequency,
(even if its varying), massively rejecting any other frequency [to the
100db levels or more mentioned]

The reference frequency
is derived from the same source that excites the sensor (or whatever).
The chopping action essentially multiplies the input signal by the
reference frequency. (Modern units do an actual multiply.)

Yeah, the old analog ones available here are also doing analog multiply.
That multiply is the heart of the device if u ask me.

This produces a DC signal proportional to any input component at
the reference frequency, while all the product sum-and-difference
components are at higher frequencies that are easily removed via
the low-pass filter. Lock-ins can give stupendous noise rejection
if you set the filter bandwidth narrow enough, such that you can
extract signals that are more than 100 dB below the noise.

This multiplication to isolate an individual frequency is essentially
how
the Fourier transform works. What advantage do these "lockin" amps
have,
today, vs. doing the A->D conversion and then an FFT?


Not much for many applications, and some modern lock-ins
actually do use FFT methods.

I'd say the main advantage over FFT is again the noise rejection.
A->D and FFT doesnt reject noise to the same extent - try to find a
a 10microvolt sine signal buried in 1V broadband white noise using
a power spectrum, I don't think you'll have too much success.
Add in the fact that the reference signal may have some drift and you begin
to appreciate the power of the thing.

Until fairly recently, it was hard to get A/Ds with the specs to rival
lock-in dynamic range. But with 24-bit converters now readily
available that's not an issue any more.

yes although the settling time of a 24bit AD gets up there, so
analyzing at e.g. 100kHz may still be easier with an old analog lockin.

Anyways I haven't had access to my system for a while but am still a little
stumped that a good dvm would see a signal I can't pick up with the lockin,
making me think I must have something set wrong.
BTW I saw a site mentioning you can make a noise-frequency map with a
lockin
(like a spectrum analyzer) , does anyone know how?

 

On Dec 6, 1:57 pm, "John G" <Greent...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

"Chris" <cfoley1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1ed84e43-8abe-4f1f-8b31-c0a2cdf8cd43@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

snip
But, in all my Athlon PCs (and I would bet Intel does it too),
it
uses
a 3 phase converter to make the 50+ amp 1.65 Volt core power
supply

Tell me about this '3 phase converter' will you ?

Graham- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi, Graham. You might want to take a look at this Linear
Technology
article:

http://www.linear.com/pc/downloadDocument.do?id=4918

Cheers
Chris

Notice this 3PHASE powersupply has a DC input and some 3 phase
technology within the pwer supply.
When most people discuss American split phase or 50hz Three phase
they
are talking about the mains distribution and not what some clever
engineer has built into the inner workings of a power supply.

John G.

It was the OP who mentioned 3 phase power on his mobo. He probably
read this feature off the side of the box - as I did - which was why I
mentioned it. The original post _was_ about computer power, wasn't it?

GG

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:55:27 -0800, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
<glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:

Hi:

Southern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of a magnet taking in
the lines of force. Northern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of
the magnet giving out the lines of force. This is analogous to the fact
that negative electrodes give out electrons and positive electrodes take
in electrons in a circuit. The current flows from negative to positive
because electrons are negatively-charged. Similarly, the south side of a
magnet is positive while the north side is negative.


Regards,

Radium

It's also analogous to the fact that people enter Home Depot through
the ENTER door and leave through the EXIT door. So what?

A fuzzy analogy does not an equivalence make. Things are equivalent if
similar equations apply. In this case, they don't.

John

 

[Don Kelly]

----------------------------
"Green Xenon [Radium]" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:473f820d$0$2316$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

Bill Hobba wrote:



There is zero evidence for silly semantics like 'Southern magnetic energy
is emitted from the side of a magnet taking in the lines of force'.

Look at the visualizations in the following links [look at the arrows on
the magnetic field lines] :

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node92.html

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book1/chapter1/1i.htm

As you can see the magnetic lines depict the magnetic force being carried
from north to south.

The Earth's "South" pole is really the North, while the "North" pole is
actually the South because of this reason.

Quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_South_Pole :

"The Earth's South Magnetic Pole is physically actually a magnetic north
pole"

Quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_North_Pole :

"Conversely, the Earth's South Magnetic Pole is physically a magnetic
north pole"

Quotes from http://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=404 :

"the magnetic field lines go out of the magnetic North pole and head
towards the South pole"

See what I mean?

Relating it self evident trivial statements like 'that negative
electrodes give out electrons', as if it was some great insight, simply
compounds the irrelevancy.

How so? Electrons are negatively charged so they move away from negative
electrodes to positive electrodes. Similarly, "magnetons" [the particles
carrying magnetic energy] are "northly-charged", hence they move away from
north-side of the magnet towards to south-side.

So,

Positive charge in electricity = Southern "charge" in magnetism

Negative charge in electricity = Northern "charge" in magnetism

It's an analogy.
----------------

Magnetons??? If your analogy is meaningful this would imply magnetic
monopoles- so far none have been found to exist so the magneton=electron
analogue is rather meaningless. "Magnetic force being "carried" from north
to south " is also rather meaningless. All somewhat silly.

There are useful analogies -magnetic circuit concepts but these are based on
the mathematical similarity of equations in simple situations, rather than
North and south poles, electron flow and the elusive non-existent
"magneton".
In addition, in physics and electrical engineering, the conventional current
is based on movement of + charges (to eliminate a lot of "do I need to
change the sign in this equation??" problems. The concept of current was
established before the discovery of the electron and its role in conduction
but it wasn't considered necessary to change everything -easier to simply
give the electron a negative sign. These conventions extend to magnetic
fields.
The "North" pole of a magnet is the "north seeking pole" based on early use
for compasses- people simply dropped the "seeking" (the Wikipedia article
as quoted does present some semantic problems such as north is south and
south is north).

However, as long as you are not trying for a deeper understanding, or doing
anything useful - you are free to use your analogy . --

Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca
remove the X to answer

 

[Bill Hobba]

"Green Xenon [Radium]" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:473f7008$0$19662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

Hi:

Southern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of a magnet taking in
the lines of force. Northern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of
the magnet giving out the lines of force. This is analogous to the fact
that negative electrodes give out electrons and positive electrodes take
in electrons in a circuit.

There is zero evidence for silly semantics like 'Southern magnetic energy is
emitted from the side of a magnet taking in the lines of force'. Relating
it self evident trivial statements like 'that negative electrodes give out
electrons', as if it was some great insight, simply compounds the
irrelevancy.

Bill

The current flows from negative to positive because electrons are
negatively-charged. Similarly, the south side of a magnet is positive
while the north side is negative.


Regards,

Radium

 

[Eeyore]

Marra wrote:

I have designed audio mixers before.

I always limit the gain at high frequencies using caps in the op-amp
feedback cct.

Not so that it encroaches on the audio band I hope.

Graham

 

[John Popelish]

Marra wrote:

On 4 Dec, 08:53, "Jacky" <j...@knight.com> wrote:
I reckon today's computers use constant voltage and current...
So the power consumption is constant.
But why today's mobos use 3-phase (or more) power supply to stabilize the
current...
Are there anything wrong with the above statements?
Thanks
Jack

There can be huge changes in current depending on what is on at the
time.

Vista powers down hard drives that havent been used for a while and so
reducing by a large amount the current taken.

3 phase PSU's ?
Dont you mean multi voltages ?
I have seen a PC yet that takes 3000 watts !
Unless it was a multi PC setup.

Many mother boards convert 5 volts to 3.3 and below with

multiphase buck converters. This is just 2 or more
identical buck converters with their on time phase shifted,
so that they don't all draw current or output ripple at the
same time.

Here is a data sheet for a multi phase buck converter
controller, to give you a better idea what this is about.
http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM2639.pdf

--
Regards,

John Popelish

 

[Marra]

I have designed audio mixers before.

I always limit the gain at high frequencies using caps in the op-amp
feedback cct.

On inputs its always a good idea to have a low value cap to ground to
get rid of radio frequencies.

I always put a low value resistor in any outputs from the mixer in
case of accidental shorts.

Try to keep any output wiring away from input wiring.

When you split the 9v to get 4v5 use a tantalum and a polyester cap to
short out an AC fluctuations.

 

[Marra]

On 4 Dec, 08:53, "Jacky" <j...@knight.com> wrote:

I reckon today's computers use constant voltage and current...
So the power consumption is constant.
But why today's mobos use 3-phase (or more) power supply to stabilize the
current...
Are there anything wrong with the above statements?
Thanks
Jack

There can be huge changes in current depending on what is on at the
time.

Vista powers down hard drives that havent been used for a while and so
reducing by a large amount the current taken.

3 phase PSU's ?
Dont you mean multi voltages ?
I have seen a PC yet that takes 3000 watts !
Unless it was a multi PC setup.

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:10:46 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Marra wrote:

I have designed audio mixers before.

I always limit the gain at high frequencies using caps in the op-amp
feedback cct.

Not so that it encroaches on the audio band I hope.

---
Dumb ass, unless you know a trick, the slope of the filter's skirts
will either always allow out-of-band signals to encroach on the
audio band or squish the band to where it's no longer flat between
20Hz and 20kHz.


--
JF

 

[Eeyore]

John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Marra wrote:

I have designed audio mixers before.

I always limit the gain at high frequencies using caps in the op-amp
feedback cct.

Not so that it encroaches on the audio band I hope.

---
Dumb ass, unless you know a trick, the slope of the filter's skirts
will either always allow out-of-band signals to encroach on the
audio band or squish the band to where it's no longer flat between
20Hz and 20kHz.

So what stage roll-off would you use so that say 10 stages in series is
still < -0.3 dB @ 20 kHz ? A worst-case figure for my designs btw.

Graham

 

[Ken]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:05:49 -0800 (PST), Marra
<cresswellavenue@talktalk.net> wrote:

Vista powers down hard drives that havent been used for a while
and so reducing by a large amount the current taken.

And so does old Windows 2000 and XP if you want.

 

[Marra]

On 8 Dec, 23:35, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:

Marra wrote:
On 4 Dec, 08:53, "Jacky" <j...@knight.com> wrote:
I reckon today's computers use constant voltage and current...
So the power consumption is constant.
But why today's mobos use 3-phase (or more) power supply to stabilize the
current...
Are there anything wrong with the above statements?
Thanks
Jack

There can be huge changes in current depending on what is on at the
time.

Vista powers down hard drives that havent been used for a while and so
reducing by a large amount the current taken.

3 phase PSU's ?
Dont you mean multi voltages ?
I have seen a PC yet that takes 3000 watts !
Unless it was a multi PC setup.

Many mother boards convert 5 volts to 3.3 and below with
multiphase buck converters. This is just 2 or more
identical buck converters with their on time phase shifted,
so that they don't all draw current or output ripple at the
same time.

Here is a data sheet for a multi phase buck converter
controller, to give you a better idea what this is about.http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM2639.pdf

--
Regards,

John Popelish- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suspect its also to pass EMC regs.
Systems have to draw a fairly even current from the mains otheriwse
they fail EMC regs.

 

[radiosrfun]

"small giant" <mutawafayez@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:74d5b197-148a-4d41-9cd6-e6fa4c52ef04@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Chapter One : Christian Muslim Responses

see this site for more information www.sultan.org

and this is my mobile number 00966566299135

Man you assholes just don't get it do you? NO ONE GIVES A RATS ASS about
your murderous cult. GET LOST.

 

[James Beck]

In article <47614393$0$31557$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net>,
radiosrfun@radiosrfun.com says...

"small giant" <mutawafayez@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:74d5b197-148a-4d41-9cd6-e6fa4c52ef04@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Chapter One : Christian Muslim Responses

see this site for more information www.sultan.org

and this is my mobile number 00966566299135

Man you assholes just don't get it do you? NO ONE GIVES A RATS ASS about
your murderous cult. GET LOST.



Or Islam either!

 

[John]

I am completely new to Groups, so suggestions for other groups to post
this request in would also be appreciated.

You could try sci.electronics.equipment and sci.electronics.repair.
Also give the forums at http://www.diyaudio.com/ a try, they're very
helpful over there.

John

 

[JeffM]

John wrote:

You could try sci.electronics.equipment

NO, that group is for test gear, production equipment,

that sort of thing--NOT for consumer audio gear.

and sci.electronics.repair.

That's one is apt.

If you are going to advise people to post to additional groups,
it would be smart to see where they have already posted.
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?enc_author=KwbQRhgAAACeN703YfZIj26T1MbeqP7AtiDKbEn1fjJfYkQTWXi1Vg&scoring=d&filter=0&num=100
(It would be good if the OP would mention where all HE has posted.)

This individual also needs to be made aware that
MULTI-POSTING IS A BAD IDEA.
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:qHhBKJ-sXKYJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-post+adequately.answered+corrected+with.commas+individually+Disclaimers+*-*-*-marked-as-Read-in-ALL-*-groups+Newsgroups.line

Also give the forums at http://www.diyaudio.com/ a try,

That's apt as well.

 

[John]

You could try sci.electronics.equipment

NO, that group is for test gear, production equipment,
that sort of thing--NOT for consumer audio gear.

YES. While most of the posts are for the gear types you mentioned,
there is nothing preventing the OP from posting his question there. If
no one has an answer, they don't have to respond.

It's an invaluable resource for finding other sources of that manual
he's looking for, even if none of the posters there has it.

If you are going to advise people to post to additional groups,
it would be smart to see where they have already posted.
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?enc_author=KwbQRhgAAACeN703YfZIj26T1MbeqP7AtiDKbEn1fjJfYkQTWXi1Vg&scoring=d&filter=0&num=100
(It would be good if the OP would mention where all HE has posted.)

What?? I totally disagree. It is not for me to research where an OP
has posted before I respond. Though I'm glad you have the time to do
so and encourage you to continue to police the posts here.

I do agree that if the OP wants to mention where they have posted,
that's always nice.

Also give the forums at http://www.diyaudio.com/ a try,
That's apt as well.

I'm glad you agree. Did you have any recommendations for the OP or
were you just going to comment on how others should post?

John